Studies on "integrated schools"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You’re all just arguing about apples vs apples. Most low performers tend to cluster among certain racial groups and tend to live in certain neighborhoods. Most high performers tend to come from households in certain racial groups and neighborhoods. Yes, there are outliers outside of these norms but they don’t represent a large population. So whether the BoE says diversity or academic performance, they are targeting the SAME groups.

There are two different definitions of diversity being used here. The MCPS definition of diversity is a large fraction of Hispanic and AA students. The second (and more common) definition of diversity is students from a wide variety of ethnic backgrounds.

I consider my majority non-white W feeder middle school (Cabin John) to be both diverse (by the second definition) and high-performing. Walking down the hallways you see a large number of ethnic groups from Asian (and not just Chinese and Indian), to Middle Eastern, to kids of black African and Caribbean immigrants, to kids of Greek and Russian parents . (Our school also includes a large number of special needs students). I happy to be able to send my kids to a diverse and high-performing school.

[Anonymous]

"I'm" happy to send my kids..."[b]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when rich educated people pretend that poor performers will magically become top performers by getting bussed to schools with high performers. What a hoot. Where in the world has that ever happened?

I hate when people claim that this is about test scores.

Give me a school with all poor kids or minorities that have top test scores and I'd send my kid there. Unfortunately, it's like a rainbow unicorn. The fact that I want my kid with high performers doesn't make me racist or elitist. I work very hard with my kid.

So you'd be fine with poor kids or minorities, if they had top test scores. But they don't, so you're not.

I want my kids surrounded by hard working/high performing kids. I don't want my kids surrounded by kids who aren't.

But that's not how public schools work here. In the public school you're zoned for, your kids are surrounded by kids who live in the area zoned for the public school you're zoned for. Some of these kids work hard, some of them don't. Some of these kids have high test scores, some of them don't.

Sure it is.

Of course one may want this, someone else may want that. We don't always get what we want. Usually we live with what we have because it takes a lot of effort to change things.

However, if people are proposing changes that may go further against what we want, wouldn't it be natural that we oppose the changes?

So my kids are surrounded by other kids zoned in the same area. Some of them work hard, some not.
I don't want to make an effort to change that. But if someone is making a proposal to change that and I anticipate it is changing for worse, I may oppose that.

Very simple, isn't it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Sure it is.

Of course one may want this, someone else may want that. We don't always get what we want. Usually we live with what we have because it takes a lot of effort to change things.

However, if people are proposing changes that may go further against what we want, wouldn't it be natural that we oppose the changes?

So my kids are surrounded by other kids zoned in the same area. Some of them work hard, some not.
I don't want to make an effort to change that. But if someone is making a proposal to change that and I anticipate it is changing for worse, I may oppose that.

Very simple, isn't it?

You may oppose whatever you want to oppose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You’re all just arguing about apples vs apples. Most low performers tend to cluster among certain racial groups and tend to live in certain neighborhoods. Most high performers tend to come from households in certain racial groups and neighborhoods. Yes, there are outliers outside of these norms but they don’t represent a large population. So whether the BoE says diversity or academic performance, they are targeting the SAME groups.

There are two different definitions of diversity being used here. The MCPS definition of diversity is a large fraction of Hispanic and AA students. The second (and more common) definition of diversity is students from a wide variety of ethnic backgrounds.

I consider my majority non-white W feeder middle school (Cabin John) to be both diverse (by the second definition) and high-performing. Walking down the hallways you see a large number of ethnic groups from Asian (and not just Chinese and Indian), to Middle Eastern, to kids of black African and Caribbean immigrants, to kids of Greek and Russian parents . (Our school also includes a large number of special needs students). I happy to be able to send my kids to a diverse and high-performing school.

No, it's not. It might be DCUM's idea of MCPS's idea, but it's not MCPS's idea.

This is what MCPS considers:

School Demographic Profile includes the racial/ethnic composition of a
school’s student population, the percentage of students participating in the
Free and Reduced-price Meals System (FARMS) and English for Speakers
of Other Languages (ESOL) programs, and school mobility rates.

Is Cabin John MS a diverse school? In some ways, yes. In some ways, no.

[Anonymous]

Why do achievement gap comparisons omit Asians ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do achievement gap comparisons omit Asians ?

Who says they do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You’re all just arguing about apples vs apples. Most low performers tend to cluster among certain racial groups and tend to live in certain neighborhoods. Most high performers tend to come from households in certain racial groups and neighborhoods. Yes, there are outliers outside of these norms but they don’t represent a large population. So whether the BoE says diversity or academic performance, they are targeting the SAME groups.

There are two different definitions of diversity being used here. The MCPS definition of diversity is a large fraction of Hispanic and AA students. The second (and more common) definition of diversity is students from a wide variety of ethnic backgrounds.

I consider my majority non-white W feeder middle school (Cabin John) to be both diverse (by the second definition) and high-performing. Walking down the hallways you see a large number of ethnic groups from Asian (and not just Chinese and Indian), to Middle Eastern, to kids of black African and Caribbean immigrants, to kids of Greek and Russian parents . (Our school also includes a large number of special needs students). I happy to be able to send my kids to a diverse and high-performing school.

No, it's not. It might be DCUM's idea of MCPS's idea, but it's not MCPS's idea.

This is what MCPS considers:

School Demographic Profile includes the racial/ethnic composition of a
school’s student population, the percentage of students participating in the
Free and Reduced-price Meals System (FARMS) and English for Speakers
of Other Languages (ESOL) programs, and school mobility rates.

Is Cabin John MS a diverse school? In some ways, yes. In some ways, no.

lol - diversity at Cabin John?

MCPS cares about FARMs, ESOL, sped and minority status. In many cases, there is overlap (quite a bit) with the aforementioned categories.

Cabin John MS
ESOL - under 5%
FARMs - 7.2%
SPED - 14%

white - 42.8%
Asian - 31.6%
a sprinkling of Hispanics, blacks and mixed races

Unless Asians and whites are ESOL, FARMs or SPED, they don't count as diverse. This is a perfect example of a school that MCPS would love to redistrict. too many whites/Asians, too many wealthy families

It is what it is. I get it.

But the definition of diversity has its own meaning in the school system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

lol - diversity at Cabin John?

MCPS cares about FARMs, ESOL, sped and minority status. In many cases, there is overlap (quite a bit) with the aforementioned categories.

Cabin John MS
ESOL - under 5%
FARMs - 7.2%
SPED - 14%

white - 42.8%
Asian - 31.6%
a sprinkling of Hispanics, blacks and mixed races

Unless Asians and whites are ESOL, FARMs or SPED, they don't count as diverse. This is a perfect example of a school that MCPS would love to redistrict. too many whites/Asians, too many wealthy families

It is what it is. I get it.

But the definition of diversity has its own meaning in the school system.

That's not true. White students or Asian-American students contribute to diversity in schools that have few white or Asian-American students. Conversely, black students or Hispanic students contribute to diversity in schools that have few black or Hispanic students. Because notwithstanding DCUM, diversity means diversity, not "poor/black/brown kids."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

lol - diversity at Cabin John?

MCPS cares about FARMs, ESOL, sped and minority status. In many cases, there is overlap (quite a bit) with the aforementioned categories.

Cabin John MS
ESOL - under 5%
FARMs - 7.2%
SPED - 14%

white - 42.8%
Asian - 31.6%
a sprinkling of Hispanics, blacks and mixed races

Unless Asians and whites are ESOL, FARMs or SPED, they don't count as diverse. This is a perfect example of a school that MCPS would love to redistrict. too many whites/Asians, too many wealthy families

It is what it is. I get it.

But the definition of diversity has its own meaning in the school system.

That's not true. White students or Asian-American students contribute to diversity in schools that have few white or Asian-American students. Conversely, black students or Hispanic students contribute to diversity in schools that have few black or Hispanic students. Because notwithstanding DCUM, diversity means diversity, not "poor/black/brown kids."

again, lol

Again, diversity is defined differently in the school systems.

Check out ESSA for clarification.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

lol - diversity at Cabin John?

MCPS cares about FARMs, ESOL, sped and minority status. In many cases, there is overlap (quite a bit) with the aforementioned categories.

Cabin John MS
ESOL - under 5%
FARMs - 7.2%
SPED - 14%

white - 42.8%
Asian - 31.6%
a sprinkling of Hispanics, blacks and mixed races

Unless Asians and whites are ESOL, FARMs or SPED, they don't count as diverse. This is a perfect example of a school that MCPS would love to redistrict. too many whites/Asians, too many wealthy families

It is what it is. I get it.

But the definition of diversity has its own meaning in the school system.

That's not true. White students or Asian-American students contribute to diversity in schools that have few white or Asian-American students. Conversely, black students or Hispanic students contribute to diversity in schools that have few black or Hispanic students. Because notwithstanding DCUM, diversity means diversity, not "poor/black/brown kids."

again, lol

Again, diversity is defined differently in the school systems.

Check out ESSA for clarification.

Yup. Like this:

School Demographic Profile includes the racial/ethnic composition of a
school’s student population, the percentage of students participating in the
Free and Reduced-price Meals System (FARMS) and English for Speakers
of Other Languages (ESOL) programs, and school mobility rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
lol - diversity at Cabin John?

MCPS cares about FARMs, ESOL, sped and minority status. In many cases, there is overlap (quite a bit) with the aforementioned categories.

Cabin John MS
ESOL - under 5%
FARMs - 7.2%
SPED - 14%

white - 42.8%
Asian - 31.6%
a sprinkling of Hispanics, blacks and mixed races

Not mentioned above is that Cabin John is 11.6% black. In fact, the demographics of Cabin John look something like America (73.3 white, 12.6 black, 5.2 Asian) except the Asian population is much larger at about equal expense of both white and black. So one could say that Cabin is even more similar to the demographics of the world.

Rather than say that MCPS only cares about American blacks and Hispanics, maybe it is better to say that MCPS wants all its school to have the mean demographics of Montgomery county. As for myself -- perhaps because I grew up in New England -- I have no loyalty to a county. I am a Rockvillian, a Marylander and an American but to me Montgomery county is just a boundary line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Not mentioned above is that Cabin John is 11.6% black. In fact, the demographics of Cabin John look something like America (73.3 white, 12.6 black, 5.2 Asian) except the Asian population is much larger at about equal expense of both white and black. So one could say that Cabin is even more similar to the demographics of the world.

Rather than say that MCPS only cares about American blacks and Hispanics, maybe it is better to say that MCPS wants all its school to have the mean demographics of Montgomery county. As for myself -- perhaps because I grew up in New England -- I have no loyalty to a county. I am a Rockvillian, a Marylander and an American but to me Montgomery county is just a boundary line.

Alternatively, when you're discussing demographics at MCPS schools, it makes sense to look at MCPS demographics, rather than Montgomery County demographics, or New England demographics, or US demographics, or world demographics.

MCPS overall demographics for middle school: 14.8% Asian-American, 21,4% black, 29.2% Hispanic, 29.8% white, <5.0% more than one, 8.9% ESOL, 32.7% FARMS, 45.5% ever FARMS, 11.2% mobility rate.
Cabin John MS: 31.6% Asian-American, 11.6% black, 7.8% Hispanic, 42.8% white, 6.1% more than one, <5.0% ESOL, 7.2% FARMS, 13.5% ever FARMS, <5.0% mobility rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sure it is.

Of course one may want this, someone else may want that. We don't always get what we want. Usually we live with what we have because it takes a lot of effort to change things.

However, if people are proposing changes that may go further against what we want, wouldn't it be natural that we oppose the changes?

So my kids are surrounded by other kids zoned in the same area. Some of them work hard, some not.
I don't want to make an effort to change that. But if someone is making a proposal to change that and I anticipate it is changing for worse, I may oppose that.

Very simple, isn't it?

You may oppose whatever you want to oppose.

Usually that means you don't have any good arguments against the PP.

[Anonymous]

What else can sprinkling white kids in cure? Maybe we should send some Bethesda elementary kids to the caravans down south so they won’t be marginalized. A boat full to the Gaza Strip and maybe Israel be so quick to open fire. Send some to the factories in China and maybe Apple workers can get weekends off. They are like the tiger penis of societal medicine