This is what class rage feels like

[Anonymous]

Look it's fine if your parents give you money for down payments and fancy vacations and private school/college money for your multiple kids.

But just realize that when your regular middle class friends learn about that stuff, they're probably going to feel weird about. Insecure or lesser than.

It's ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Class rage scares privileged DCUM folks. This thread is not going to end well.

Have you ever been on the money board? Whenever someone posts about "only" making 300k and not being able to afford decent housing, the pitch forks come out. There is lots of class rage on this web site.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Debt for an MFA is insane. But here's the thing, if everyone else is acting as though they don't have much money either, you don't realize how insane it is until after you're stuck in a low-paying career path. I have friends who are .001 percenters, from a famous family with buckets of money, and they will complain to me about their budget woes or brag about the Costco food they served at their kids' birthday party. Then it's spring break in St. Moritz or the VIP Disney tour. Sorry, friend, we're not in the same boat.

There are so many people in DC like this - they can afford to pursue policy careers based on interest rather than money because there's a trust fund or a master-of-the-universe spouse. I can't tell you the number of colleagues at my left-leaning nonprofit whose kids are Sidwell/Maret/GDS and who live in $2m houses. They're great smart people, but sometimes I want to smack them.

The thing is, this isn't harmless. I worked in public policy and I remember vividly the non-profit trust fund baby who was explaining to me that it was a good thing to require anyone who sells a home to spend up to $100,000 to upgrade the energy efficiency of the house. They pointed out that this was just a fraction of the total value of a house. They seemed stunned -- and incredulous -- when I told them that there are large portions of the United States where you can buy an entire house for less than $100,000. These are the people in DC who are making policy for the rest of us. (This was about ten years ago, and these same ideas is now popping up in the "Green New Deal.")

These are people who talk to their friends about how they could never live in "Flyover Country" because they want to live in a "diverse" area. What they really mean is that they want to live around rich people of all races and nationalities.

+ 1

These people are often so clueless to most people's reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We all make choices in life that greatly affects the long term outcome. If you are going into the artistic fields in New York without family money, you have to be prepared to pay the price for that. If you want to live in a high cost area like DC and complain about not being able to afford a crappy rambler in Bethesda, then that's a choice you made by deciding to live in DC instead of a cheaper city elsewhere.

I've noticed that most of "class rage" is actually anger at oneself for making decisions that didn't pan out in the long run and for being in denial about it for a long time. I knew plenty of people who moved to NY or SF after college, but they only did it for a few years. They got married, and moved to the second tier cities and now live comfortable and happy and contented lives because they were bright enough to know the high cost of living in New York or California wasn't going to be worth it and would require too much sacrifice if you weren't pulling in at least 500k a year HHI and that quite often you have a better life on 200k in a provincial city than 500k in Manhattan. They were smart enough to realize that and left while the going was still good instead of hanging on desperately to end up the last person left at the party.

I don't know if this is really true.

I think most people are pissed because they've been sold a used bill of goods. We've all been told our whole lives that "if we work hard enough" we too will have the American dream. A single family house in a "nice" neighborhood outside of a major city, good job that doesn't overwork you, a couple of kids who you can afford to send to "good" k-12 schools and college, and a vacation or two a year.

Compare that to most people's reality where they are burdened with student loan debt and daycare, their salary hasn't gone up in forever but their hours have, and they can't even afford a sh*t shack in Arlington. And probably haven't been on a real vacation in five years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all make choices in life that greatly affects the long term outcome. If you are going into the artistic fields in New York without family money, you have to be prepared to pay the price for that. If you want to live in a high cost area like DC and complain about not being able to afford a crappy rambler in Bethesda, then that's a choice you made by deciding to live in DC instead of a cheaper city elsewhere.

I've noticed that most of "class rage" is actually anger at oneself for making decisions that didn't pan out in the long run and for being in denial about it for a long time. I knew plenty of people who moved to NY or SF after college, but they only did it for a few years. They got married, and moved to the second tier cities and now live comfortable and happy and contented lives because they were bright enough to know the high cost of living in New York or California wasn't going to be worth it and would require too much sacrifice if you weren't pulling in at least 500k a year HHI and that quite often you have a better life on 200k in a provincial city than 500k in Manhattan. They were smart enough to realize that and left while the going was still good instead of hanging on desperately to end up the last person left at the party.

I don't know if this is really true.

I think most people are pissed because they've been sold a used bill of goods. We've all been told our whole lives that "if we work hard enough" we too will have the American dream. A single family house in a "nice" neighborhood outside of a major city, good job that doesn't overwork you, a couple of kids who you can afford to send to "good" k-12 schools and college, and a vacation or two a year.

Compare that to most people's reality where they are burdened with student loan debt and daycare, their salary hasn't gone up in forever but their hours have, and they can't even afford a sh*t shack in Arlington. And probably haven't been on a real vacation in five years.

Sounds like you and other people need a reality check

The American dream is alive and well. There are millions of immigrants that have come to this country with nothing and now are successful.

It comes down to choices, valuing education, picking a major that will actually pay well and working hard. Plus graduating, getting a job, getting married, and having children in that order

If you do those 7 things life should be relatively easy.

To your last sentence pick a college you can afford, pick a major that actually pays well, switch jobs if you aren't getting raises, live within your means and don't be afraid to move to a lower cost of living area

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is ridiculous. I didn’t grow up with money. But I knew I wanted a certain lifestyle. So I went in to a high paying field. And made a good salary and met my spouse who was in a similar high paying field. I didn’t follow my dream or passion. I did what would yield the most $. People make different choices. Some are born lucky. Some make a ton of money being in the right place at the right time. Some people work really really hard. I am happy to pay my taxes and support a strong safety net. But her class rage is totally ridiculous.

I think it’s great you were fortunate enough to be aware of what would make a lot of money and what wouldn’t. I shared your dreams and had no idea my field would be among the lower paying. I thought everyone is corporate America made good money. Turns out only certain departments make the big bucks. I was also told i wouldn’t need a masters degree to advance and guess what? 7 years later, All leadership positions require a masters degree.

I work really hard with little yield and thought I was doing what I needed to do, but I’ve crrtainly learned what to teach my kids.

No offense, but there's nothing "fortunate" about basic due diligence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m feeling “rage” towards all the posts about working hard if you want to be rich. Hard work is only one part of the equation. Race, gender, mental illness, country of origin etc are also very important.

Sure. But this particular author had all sorts of choices - and she chose a (generally) low-paying degree and then a (generally) low paying career. She's not some bipolar Somali refugee who was dealt a bleak hand in life. She a white girl why always was nervous about money, but who then chose a career that doesn't pay, and still is nervous about money, and mad at people who have money and don't tell her about it.

[Anonymous]

Here’s the thing. This woman is bright enough to have gone the management track at a random company and be making 80-100k in Columbus or Phoenix or Denver as a project manager or senior admin and if she’d married someone similar, that’s 160- 200k HHI right there. She could have done it. Boring job but she’d have financial security and a comfortable life.

But she chose to be in the “creative” industry in NYC of all places. Her decisions. And she’s complaining?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are certain careers that make money and certain ones that require a separate income. It’s not that hard to figure out if you give it some thought. Being middle class in the arts in NYC = getting poor. Very poor. There’s always the exception but. Getting mad because you made that choice. That’s just “why am I not a super model/ NBA star?” Indulgent talk.

It's not about indulgence. It's about getting things back in perspective. Right now, we have the biggest wealth inequality since the Gilded Age. I grew up in NYC. I don't recognize the city anymore as a place where immigrant parents like my own could work, raise a family, and grow old. The middle class is fleeing the city.

Goodbye, New York City... you belong to the top 1% and the bottom 1% now.

As an immigrant you should be grateful to be in the States and not expect to
live in one of the most expensive cities in the world.

[Anonymous]

My retired husband has a PhD and takes math and science classes at a community college to stay sharp. The only non first or second generation people in his classes are college kids who take summer courses. Everyone else is hyper focused on a career which promises a good living.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I saw this article coming up as recommended after reading all the college bribe drama. Interesting. What do you think?

https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/class-rage-anger-wealthy-rich-friends.html

What good is a brain if she doesn't use it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is definitely how I feel when I find out people have significant parental help in the form of house down payments (or full purchase price), tuition, completed 529’s, free trips to Hawaii, etc. It’s all very hush hush because they want it to seem like they aren’t getting that much help.

I'm not trying to seem like my father didn't pay for most things I had. I just ... don't really talk about money at all, either way. If you are scraping by and ONLY want to be friends with people who are also scraping by, then you need to find a way to say that. Otherwise, if you're cool, I'm going to try to be friends with you. I have friends who are a part-time bartender, a social worker, a paralegal, a tech chick, general counsel of a company, etc. I'll be friends with anyone whose personality I like. And yes, if that means we meet up to go for a walk because you can't afford anything until payday, then I'm cool with that. Or if you want to grab a slice of pizza and can't afford the fancy Italian restaurant, I'm fine with a slice.

But I shouldn't have to feel bad about what I was given. I work hard, I appreciate what I have, I donate. And I will raise my children to do the same. While yes, giving them the gift of not having to worry about money.

Don't be a martyr. No one can make you "feel bad" unless you do.

The point is that some people work hard, just like you. Yet, their paychecks don't reflect it. And she could have made a different choice. But someone has to do those jobs. And sometimes people feel a calling toward service/helping others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is definitely how I feel when I find out people have significant parental help in the form of house down payments (or full purchase price), tuition, completed 529’s, free trips to Hawaii, etc. It’s all very hush hush because they want it to seem like they aren’t getting that much help.

I'm not trying to seem like my father didn't pay for most things I had. I just ... don't really talk about money at all, either way. If you are scraping by and ONLY want to be friends with people who are also scraping by, then you need to find a way to say that. Otherwise, if you're cool, I'm going to try to be friends with you. I have friends who are a part-time bartender, a social worker, a paralegal, a tech chick, general counsel of a company, etc. I'll be friends with anyone whose personality I like. And yes, if that means we meet up to go for a walk because you can't afford anything until payday, then I'm cool with that. Or if you want to grab a slice of pizza and can't afford the fancy Italian restaurant, I'm fine with a slice.

But I shouldn't have to feel bad about what I was given. I work hard, I appreciate what I have, I donate. And I will raise my children to do the same. While yes, giving them the gift of not having to worry about money.

Don't be a martyr. No one can make you "feel bad" unless you do.

The point is that some people work hard, just like you. Yet, their paychecks don't reflect it. And she could have made a different choice. But someone has to do those jobs. And sometimes people feel a calling toward service/helping others.

And I'll also add that even a low'ish paying job can offer a decent lifestyle in a vacuum. But, then figure in COL, taxes, costs of health care, saving for retirement, child care, care for aging parents . . . . all that stuff sucks dry income. Even income of "hard workers." This country doesn't make living well on a modest salary easy. We talk about meritocracy. But, that's bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all make choices in life that greatly affects the long term outcome. If you are going into the artistic fields in New York without family money, you have to be prepared to pay the price for that. If you want to live in a high cost area like DC and complain about not being able to afford a crappy rambler in Bethesda, then that's a choice you made by deciding to live in DC instead of a cheaper city elsewhere.

I've noticed that most of "class rage" is actually anger at oneself for making decisions that didn't pan out in the long run and for being in denial about it for a long time. I knew plenty of people who moved to NY or SF after college, but they only did it for a few years. They got married, and moved to the second tier cities and now live comfortable and happy and contented lives because they were bright enough to know the high cost of living in New York or California wasn't going to be worth it and would require too much sacrifice if you weren't pulling in at least 500k a year HHI and that quite often you have a better life on 200k in a provincial city than 500k in Manhattan. They were smart enough to realize that and left while the going was still good instead of hanging on desperately to end up the last person left at the party.

I don't know if this is really true.

I think most people are pissed because they've been sold a used bill of goods. We've all been told our whole lives that "if we work hard enough" we too will have the American dream. A single family house in a "nice" neighborhood outside of a major city, good job that doesn't overwork you, a couple of kids who you can afford to send to "good" k-12 schools and college, and a vacation or two a year.

Compare that to most people's reality where they are burdened with student loan debt and daycare, their salary hasn't gone up in forever but their hours have, and they can't even afford a sh*t shack in Arlington. And probably haven't been on a real vacation in five years.

Sounds like you and other people need a reality check

The American dream is alive and well. There are millions of immigrants that have come to this country with nothing and now are successful.

It comes down to choices, valuing education, picking a major that will actually pay well and working hard. Plus graduating, getting a job, getting married, and having children in that order

If you do those 7 things life should be relatively easy.

To your last sentence pick a college you can afford, pick a major that actually pays well, switch jobs if you aren't getting raises, live within your means and don't be afraid to move to a lower cost of living area

That was my achilles heel. I think its a lot easy now, but when I was coming up it was unclear exactly what was going to pay well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are certain careers that make money and certain ones that require a separate income. It’s not that hard to figure out if you give it some thought. Being middle class in the arts in NYC = getting poor. Very poor. There’s always the exception but. Getting mad because you made that choice. That’s just “why am I not a super model/ NBA star?” Indulgent talk.

It's not about indulgence. It's about getting things back in perspective. Right now, we have the biggest wealth inequality since the Gilded Age. I grew up in NYC. I don't recognize the city anymore as a place where immigrant parents like my own could work, raise a family, and grow old. The middle class is fleeing the city.

Goodbye, New York City... you belong to the top 1% and the bottom 1% now.

Yes.
I think Anthony Bourdain did a show on that before his death.