This is what class rage feels like

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I just can't feel bad for this woman. It all comes down to choices. And how you deal with the cards you are dealt- that's how the winners are separated from the losers.

Years ago one of my best friends was living in Manhattan, working at an average paying job that she could get literally anywhere in the US, and constantly bitching about. how expensive it was. I said - so leave. She went on at length about. how she never could, the theatre, the restaurants, the entertainment, the art, etc.! And I said - but you never go any of those places. You can’t afford it. And I come to NY once or twice a year, and do all that.

This is pretty common for New Yorkers.

And the takeout, don't forget the takeout. Lived in NYC for 10+ yrs when I was in biglaw and then as soon as that ended, I moved bc it simply wasn't worth it to me to be there if I wasn't making 300k+ when there are perfectly good cities on the east coast with a LCOL than NYC including DC. So my friends who are there -- with kids -- left biglaw YEARS ago bc they just couldn't handle the hours as 4th years, but refuse to leave bc CULTURE, TAKEOUT, CITY LIFE. Meanwhile it's constant worrying about finding apartments that are big enough for a family of 4 and what they'll do re school if they get matched to the crappy public school etc. bc these people aren't biglaw partners or hedge fund managers. Nope instead they're choosing to do Manhattan life with families while working in HR or in big 4 consulting (not as partners) bc . . . TAKEOUT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:who goes into debt for a MFA?

My MFA was fully funded, with tuition, books, room and board and a stipend for being a TA. Typically grad programs where they don't think you'll make a lot of money after you graduate are pretty generous.

[Anonymous]

I relate to the author completely. It is really hard to be the only poor one among rich friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Debt for an MFA is insane. But here's the thing, if everyone else is acting as though they don't have much money either, you don't realize how insane it is until after you're stuck in a low-paying career path. I have friends who are .001 percenters, from a famous family with buckets of money, and they will complain to me about their budget woes or brag about the Costco food they served at their kids' birthday party. Then it's spring break in St. Moritz or the VIP Disney tour. Sorry, friend, we're not in the same boat.

There are so many people in DC like this - they can afford to pursue policy careers based on interest rather than money because there's a trust fund or a master-of-the-universe spouse. I can't tell you the number of colleagues at my left-leaning nonprofit whose kids are Sidwell/Maret/GDS and who live in $2m houses. They're great smart people, but sometimes I want to smack them.

The thing is, this isn't harmless. I worked in public policy and I remember vividly the non-profit trust fund baby who was explaining to me that it was a good thing to require anyone who sells a home to spend up to $100,000 to upgrade the energy efficiency of the house. They pointed out that this was just a fraction of the total value of a house. They seemed stunned -- and incredulous -- when I told them that there are large portions of the United States where you can buy an entire house for less than $100,000. These are the people in DC who are making policy for the rest of us. (This was about ten years ago, and these same ideas is now popping up in the "Green New Deal.")

These are people who talk to their friends about how they could never live in "Flyover Country" because they want to live in a "diverse" area. What they really mean is that they want to live around rich people of all races and nationalities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Author is pretty stupid if she thinks she can pursue a BFA. That's a huge luxury. Taking on debt for a BFA, she knew what she was doing -- she was just choosing to do something really stupid (in her circumstance)

Art is not a luxury! I got my BFA and MFA and I have German cars (referencing another PP), a nice SFH in a close-in suburb, retirement accounts, and college savings for my kids. Zero help from my parents after high school. Author just seems out of touch and unable to monetize her malaise.

Art is a luxury

A friend of mine also has her MFA and as a graphic designer got laid off during the dot com bust, became an independent contractor, became a single mother not by choice, and ... constantly scrambled for work, never had health insurance, and could barely afford her computer to do her work. let alone do continuing education to keep up with advances in graphic design. She is now stuck being a part-time bartender, despite having a Master's degree. She is barely making it. I don't think she ever has enough money to pay rent on time.

One of the most successful people from my high school class is an art major who happened to get on the ground floor of a start up and became the head of creative for what has become one of the world's biggest "lifestyle" brands (I guess is the best way to describe it). However, I know they (like the first pp) got incredibly lucky, and your friend's experience is more the norm. I know one person who got rich with an art degree, but it's still generally a career for someone with a big trust fund to start with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:<We have choices.> This is class war. This is a class struggle, a community struggle against institutions that do not foster the positive growth of children or adults. The work needing to be done is significant, requiring community education and organizing.

Keep in mind that most of the people around you are well-meaning but indoctrinated. You can't expect them to understand that they are enslaved. Build small movements which can create new, democratic institutions.

Spasibo tovarish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:<We have choices.> This is class war. This is a class struggle, a community struggle against institutions that do not foster the positive growth of children or adults. The work needing to be done is significant, requiring community education and organizing.

Keep in mind that most of the people around you are well-meaning but indoctrinated. You can't expect them to understand that they are enslaved. Build small movements which can create new, democratic institutions.

Spasibo tovarish.

I am Russian and I LOLed as well

[Anonymous]

Ok I am not in her situation but I totally understand then aspect of secrecy and shame when you cannot go out because you cannot afford dinner and drinks. I was in a very tight place financially once and not many people knew. One friend actually helped me have a mini vacation with her by paying for some dinners and buying groceries. I am very very grateful to her.
Another friend invited me out for dinner and shared her husband troubles and I shared mine and told her how bad it is for me financially. She never offered to pick up the the tab and shared how she is not too worried about divorce as her father is well off. I know she didn’t have to, I just felt so grateful towards friend 1. She is not American fwiw. I will always remember it and will do the same for her if needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are certain careers that make money and certain ones that require a separate income. It’s not that hard to figure out if you give it some thought. Being middle class in the arts in NYC = getting poor. Very poor. There’s always the exception but. Getting mad because you made that choice. That’s just “why am I not a super model/ NBA star?” Indulgent talk.

It's not about indulgence. It's about getting things back in perspective. Right now, we have the biggest wealth inequality since the Gilded Age. I grew up in NYC. I don't recognize the city anymore as a place where immigrant parents like my own could work, raise a family, and grow old. The middle class is fleeing the city.

Goodbye, New York City... you belong to the top 1% and the bottom 1% now.

[Anonymous]

We all make choices in life that greatly affects the long term outcome. If you are going into the artistic fields in New York without family money, you have to be prepared to pay the price for that. If you want to live in a high cost area like DC and complain about not being able to afford a crappy rambler in Bethesda, then that's a choice you made by deciding to live in DC instead of a cheaper city elsewhere.

I've noticed that most of "class rage" is actually anger at oneself for making decisions that didn't pan out in the long run and for being in denial about it for a long time. I knew plenty of people who moved to NY or SF after college, but they only did it for a few years. They got married, and moved to the second tier cities and now live comfortable and happy and contented lives because they were bright enough to know the high cost of living in New York or California wasn't going to be worth it and would require too much sacrifice if you weren't pulling in at least 500k a year HHI and that quite often you have a better life on 200k in a provincial city than 500k in Manhattan. They were smart enough to realize that and left while the going was still good instead of hanging on desperately to end up the last person left at the party.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We all make choices in life that greatly affects the long term outcome. If you are going into the artistic fields in New York without family money, you have to be prepared to pay the price for that. If you want to live in a high cost area like DC and complain about not being able to afford a crappy rambler in Bethesda, then that's a choice you made by deciding to live in DC instead of a cheaper city elsewhere.

I've noticed that most of "class rage" is actually anger at oneself for making decisions that didn't pan out in the long run and for being in denial about it for a long time. I knew plenty of people who moved to NY or SF after college, but they only did it for a few years. They got married, and moved to the second tier cities and now live comfortable and happy and contented lives because they were bright enough to know the high cost of living in New York or California wasn't going to be worth it and would require too much sacrifice if you weren't pulling in at least 500k a year HHI and that quite often you have a better life on 200k in a provincial city than 500k in Manhattan. They were smart enough to realize that and left while the going was still good instead of hanging on desperately to end up the last person left at the party.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m feeling “rage” towards all the posts about working hard if you want to be rich. Hard work is only one part of the equation. Race, gender, mental illness, country of origin etc are also very important.

Yes they are. And you sound like a silver spooner who chose to pursue a pseudo degree that allows you to rage but not succeed.

Actually I’m an immigrant from a lower middle class family. Maybe you need to go stick that silver spoon somewhere.

lmao!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is definitely how I feel when I find out people have significant parental help in the form of house down payments (or full purchase price), tuition, completed 529’s, free trips to Hawaii, etc. It’s all very hush hush because they want it to seem like they aren’t getting that much help.

I'm not trying to seem like my father didn't pay for most things I had. I just ... don't really talk about money at all, either way. If you are scraping by and ONLY want to be friends with people who are also scraping by, then you need to find a way to say that. Otherwise, if you're cool, I'm going to try to be friends with you. I have friends who are a part-time bartender, a social worker, a paralegal, a tech chick, general counsel of a company, etc. I'll be friends with anyone whose personality I like. And yes, if that means we meet up to go for a walk because you can't afford anything until payday, then I'm cool with that. Or if you want to grab a slice of pizza and can't afford the fancy Italian restaurant, I'm fine with a slice.

But I shouldn't have to feel bad about what I was given. I work hard, I appreciate what I have, I donate. And I will raise my children to do the same. While yes, giving them the gift of not having to worry about money.

NP your parents should have given you additional classes in reading comprehension , the author did not explicitly state that she wants people like you to feel bad about what you were ‘given’or that she exclusively wanted her friends to be fellow scrappers , but rather lamented the dishonesty of her ex peers . She described it accurately when she recounted instances of friends who gave her the impression that they were similarly situated only to discover that it was far from the truth . Perhaps you can chalk it up to people like you not ‘talking about money ‘ which is your prerogative , but in this case , it appears that the author would’ve wanted her peers to be more forthcoming which is an understandable and logical expectation . I don’t think expecting a peer to say ‘ hey Susie , the only reason why I’m even pursuing this career path is because I have a lot of family help’ is too much to ask

You are absolutely insane to think that anyone owes someone else - especially a coworker - information about their finance. The logic that you think you are entitled to someone else’s personal information is mind boggling.

It’s mind boggling that the author thought what she was being told was frank and truthful ? It is mind boggling to you that the people she considered friends not the barista or the panhandler were pretending to go through what they knew wasn’t true ? Keep up with that mindset of thinking a moral compass can be bent or adjusted to suit your needs , with a little luck you might get the Felicity Huffman treatment some day .Out of curiosity, did you read the article at all?

Yea, you are definitely insane. Again NO ONE owes you insight into their financial situation. It is so bizarre that you think otherwise. You need to work on that chip on your shoulder and stop being envious of the lifestyle of others.

Why can't people on this site express opinions without insults and hyperbole? I agree that no one owes anyone else details about their financial situation. I agree it is rude to expect that. But do you have to resort to calling the other person insane and blather on about chips on shoulders? Maybe look in the mirror.

Geez.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On the other hand, if you didn’t grow up at least exposed to rich kids you might not know how the game is played. You may not realize that everyone around you is getting help until it’s too late - you spent the money on grad school, picked a career, etc. Then you find out that everyone else has been getting help all along it must feel like a sucker punch.

This is the truth. I don't have problems with any class rage, there are many ways to live a happy and fulfilled life without tons of money, but the above is still true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She is ridiculous. I didn’t grow up with money. But I knew I wanted a certain lifestyle. So I went in to a high paying field. And made a good salary and met my spouse who was in a similar high paying field. I didn’t follow my dream or passion. I did what would yield the most $. People make different choices. Some are born lucky. Some make a ton of money being in the right place at the right time. Some people work really really hard. I am happy to pay my taxes and support a strong safety net. But her class rage is totally ridiculous.

This was my reaction too. She's an idiot. She claims she was always jealous of people with money, and was always financially insecure, and so on. And then she . . . gets a MFA, and targets work int he notoriously low-paying publishing industry? Again, she's an idiot. If money is such a big issue, try to make some more. No doubt she told herself "it's my passion!" Well, fine - but shut up about the money then.

I don't work my ass off at a law firm because I love Fed.R.Civ.P. 26 - I do it because there are certain things I want out of life, for myself and my family. Would I rather be a chef, or work on the Hill? Absolutely. But people prioritize things in their life, and then deal with those choices. Don't make a choice and then whine about it.