Why do top US universities weed out most pre-med kids & then we import foreign MDs?

[Anonymous]

This is such a weird post.

For one - lots of college students decide that they don’t want to go into medicine for a lot of different reasons. Some of them are very good students. M

For two literally anyone can apply to med school. You take the prerequisite classes, which could be taken at community college after you graduate, then you take the MCAT and you apply. No one is tying this woman’s hands and keeping her from applying are they?

If you score highly on the MCAT, show significant intellectual curiosity and have a good record of working in some kind of job (volunteering counts, but it needs to be significant) then you are a good candidate.
Your grades at a top 10 that grades harshly finishes after the above items, though it is expected that you were an excellent student. Does it matter if you get some B’s? Not really.

Thirdly how come no one has mentioned osteopath school? My friend has been studying for two years in hopes of med school. Her MCAT’s did not make the cut for a US med school, but she was accepted in a doctor of Osteopathic medicine program.

Fourthly - could your dear children not go to a foreign med school if only med school will do? Or are they not qualified for admission to those either?

[Anonymous]

Lot of racism and ignorance on this board.
It is extremely difficult for international students to get into US medical schools. Only exceptional students get in, much higher bar for them than for US born students. Almost all the foreign doctors that you see came here after med school for residencies. We don’t have enough medical school graduates to fill residency slots. If your kid does not get into med school, don’t blame the international kids, blame med schools and the US medical profession as they want to keep supply low so that salaries and income of doctors remain very high. Also, a lot of hospitals like foreign students as residents as they are less entitled and high maintenance than many US snowflakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you want anyone other than the brightest and most capable people in charge of your medical care?

I want more English speaking proven high IQ American kids becoming doctors, I don't want tens of thousands of them being arbitrarily weeded out with curved STEM courses and senseless hoops and hyper-selective medical schools rejecting them.

Your position is that medical schools should become *less* selective? Make room for the merely adequate!

Good luck with that.

[Anonymous]

By weed out, OP, you mean got a C- in Organic Chemistry? Even with the curve?

I'm fine with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is such a weird post.

For one - lots of college students decide that they don’t want to go into medicine for a lot of different reasons. Some of them are very good students. M

For two literally anyone can apply to med school. You take the prerequisite classes, which could be taken at community college after you graduate, then you take the MCAT and you apply. No one is tying this woman’s hands and keeping her from applying are they?

If you score highly on the MCAT, show significant intellectual curiosity and have a good record of working in some kind of job (volunteering counts, but it needs to be significant) then you are a good candidate.
Your grades at a top 10 that grades harshly finishes after the above items, though it is expected that you were an excellent student. Does it matter if you get some B’s? Not really.

Thirdly how come no one has mentioned osteopath school? My friend has been studying for two years in hopes of med school. Her MCAT’s did not make the cut for a US med school, but she was accepted in a doctor of Osteopathic medicine program.

Fourthly - could your dear children not go to a foreign med school if only med school will do? Or are they not qualified for admission to those either?

DO (osteopathic) schools were mentioned earlier in the thread. These are increasingly a good option for those with lower GPAs and/or MCATs. DO students take the same USMLEs as MD students.

They are an especially good option for those who want to do primary care. Even so, if you do really well in DO and on the USMLEs, you have a reasonable shot at the more coveted residencies like surgery because residency slots outstrip medical/DO graduates.

Foreign medical schools like those in the Caribbean are a gamble. They are more expensive than US schools and students get weeded far more than at US medical or DO schools (which are taking people who already have survived undergraduate weeding out in reasonable standing). It is far harder to get a shot at a US residency coming out of the Caribbean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a weird post.

For one - lots of college students decide that they don’t want to go into medicine for a lot of different reasons. Some of them are very good students. M

For two literally anyone can apply to med school. You take the prerequisite classes, which could be taken at community college after you graduate, then you take the MCAT and you apply. No one is tying this woman’s hands and keeping her from applying are they?

If you score highly on the MCAT, show significant intellectual curiosity and have a good record of working in some kind of job (volunteering counts, but it needs to be significant) then you are a good candidate.
Your grades at a top 10 that grades harshly finishes after the above items, though it is expected that you were an excellent student. Does it matter if you get some B’s? Not really.

Thirdly how come no one has mentioned osteopath school? My friend has been studying for two years in hopes of med school. Her MCAT’s did not make the cut for a US med school, but she was accepted in a doctor of Osteopathic medicine program.

Fourthly - could your dear children not go to a foreign med school if only med school will do? Or are they not qualified for admission to those either?

DO (osteopathic) schools were mentioned earlier in the thread. These are increasingly a good option for those with lower GPAs and/or MCATs. DO students take the same USMLEs as MD students.

They are an especially good option for those who want to do primary care. Even so, if you do really well in DO and on the USMLEs, you have a reasonable shot at the more coveted residencies like surgery because residency slots outstrip medical/DO graduates.

Foreign medical schools like those in the Caribbean are a gamble. They are more expensive than US schools and students get weeded far more than at US medical or DO schools (which are taking people who already have survived undergraduate weeding out in reasonable standing). It is far harder to get a shot at a US residency coming out of the Caribbean.

We absolutely need a lot more good primary care doctors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:By weed out, OP, you mean got a C- in Organic Chemistry? Even with the curve?

I'm fine with that.

When everyone in the college has 95-99 percentile SATs it’s pointless to have curves, yet top 20 colleges do this in their pre-med tracks. We’re not talking curve against a class of flunkies, all these kids are wicked smart and could become fine doctors who speak the king’s English.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By weed out, OP, you mean got a C- in Organic Chemistry? Even with the curve?

I'm fine with that.

When everyone in the college has 95-99 percentile SATs it’s pointless to have curves, yet top 20 colleges do this in their pre-med tracks. We’re not talking curve against a class of flunkies, all these kids are wicked smart and could become fine doctors who speak the king’s English.

Then prove it by getting As and high MCAT score. Why is it so difficult?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By weed out, OP, you mean got a C- in Organic Chemistry? Even with the curve?

I'm fine with that.

When everyone in the college has 95-99 percentile SATs it’s pointless to have curves, yet top 20 colleges do this in their pre-med tracks. We’re not talking curve against a class of flunkies, all these kids are wicked smart and could become fine doctors who speak the king’s English.

Then prove it by getting As and high MCAT score. Why is it so difficult?

+1

OP is a prime example of a snowplow parent. Remove all obstacles so her kid can get what she deserves! Forget suggesting that her kid try working hard or anything radical like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By weed out, OP, you mean got a C- in Organic Chemistry? Even with the curve?

I'm fine with that.

When everyone in the college has 95-99 percentile SATs it’s pointless to have curves, yet top 20 colleges do this in their pre-med tracks. We’re not talking curve against a class of flunkies, all these kids are wicked smart and could become fine doctors who speak the king’s English.

Then prove it by getting As and high MCAT score. Why is it so difficult?

+1

OP is a prime example of a snowplow parent. Remove all obstacles so her kid can get what she deserves! Forget suggesting that her kid try working hard or anything radical like that.

It sounds like med school is the moms’ dream and not the daughters’ dream.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By weed out, OP, you mean got a C- in Organic Chemistry? Even with the curve?

I'm fine with that.

When everyone in the college has 95-99 percentile SATs it’s pointless to have curves, yet top 20 colleges do this in their pre-med tracks. We’re not talking curve against a class of flunkies, all these kids are wicked smart and could become fine doctors who speak the king’s English.

U Chicago is the only top 10 school that I know of that is harsh with the grades. Kids know that going in. You can still distinguish yourself both in the clsssroom and at work, even without perfect grades. And on the MCAT too. Plus graduate schools don’t expect U Chicago kids to have straight A’s.

[Anonymous]

OP your DD should have gone to Wash U - the school with the tippy top grade inflation.

[Anonymous]

The schools weed them out because there are a highly limited number of spots and they want to convey an acceptance rate of pre-meds to medical school that seems relatively high. The number of spots at medical school is highly restricted because of the influence of the American Medical Association, which wants to limit spots so that doctors pay will be high (the highest in the world). The high pay attracts doctors from other countries to try to come here. The US actually has one of the lowest percentages of doctors per capita in the developed world.

[Anonymous]

I am one of the "weeded out" Duke undergrads who dropped pre-med. Wow you guys are harsh! Honestly, I struggled with depression in college and was unhappy at Duke and was even more miserable in pre med courses and did poorly. I was so unaccustomed to flailing so miserably and it seemed like everyone around me seemed so brilliant and was happy and doing awesome (although that wasn't true!). If I could do it all over again I would have majored in something less rigorous at Duke, tried to graduate in 3 years, and then taken my science courses at an easier school. I think sometimes we have different capacities at different times in our lives. For my own child, my advice would be that a job is a job and not who you are, no matter how prestigious or lucrative it is. My family pushed me so hard and made everything so much worse. Even now I think my family perceives me as a failure for going to such a prestigious college and failing to go to medical school. That's hurtful to me, honestly. I went to a top law school on scholarship and graduated with no debt and have a great job now. Everything turned out really well, and yet I suppose I will always wonder what if...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the "weeded out" Duke undergrads who dropped pre-med. Wow you guys are harsh! Honestly, I struggled with depression in college and was unhappy at Duke and was even more miserable in pre med courses and did poorly. I was so unaccustomed to flailing so miserably and it seemed like everyone around me seemed so brilliant and was happy and doing awesome (although that wasn't true!). If I could do it all over again I would have majored in something less rigorous at Duke, tried to graduate in 3 years, and then taken my science courses at an easier school. I think sometimes we have different capacities at different times in our lives. For my own child, my advice would be that a job is a job and not who you are, no matter how prestigious or lucrative it is. My family pushed me so hard and made everything so much worse. Even now I think my family perceives me as a failure for going to such a prestigious college and failing to go to medical school. That's hurtful to me, honestly. I went to a top law school on scholarship and graduated with no debt and have a great job now. Everything turned out really well, and yet I suppose I will always wonder what if...

Your issues with depression & your family definitely complicate the discussion. Everyone has issues though. You ended up where you ended up and you should accept it.