Scary reaction to flu shot in Loudoun...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just heard a story last night on PRI's The World about how many European countries are not pushing the H1N1 vaccine as hard as here in the US.

Spain is actually NOT recommending it for children. And the German Medical Association isn't pushing for it either.

Are these doctors stupid?

Anyone who wants to listen to the story, here's the link:
http://www.theworld.org/

Scroll down to H1N1 Ambivalence

As they said in the report, the German Government IS pushing for all people to be vaccinated. There is a disagreement between the government and their equivalent of the AMA. And that group still want the high risk people to get it.

Spain is advocating it for high risk groups, which in the EU is pregnant women, health care workers, or people with a pre-existing condition. Lastly, the quote from the Spanish interview was very telling: "There is some sort of nonscientific reasoning in saying that this is not a safe enough vaccine".

So really, this comes down not to whether the vaccine is being considered safe by these governments. It is about whether they are better targeted at high risk groups or the general population. So they are not stupid and neither are our health authorities.

A large number of doctors and front-line health care workers in the US are refusing to get the shot themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The epidemiologist at the end of the report mentioned that in the US, it might be being pushed due to concern of how much it will cost families if someone in their household gets the flu.

Maybe this is more of an economic issue? People get the flu, miss work, companies lose money, etc. Just give everyone the flu, to keep the economy running (or sputtering along) as it's currently doing.

Meant give everyone the flu vaccine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
A large number of doctors and front-line health care workers in the US are refusing to get the shot themselves.

It's been mandated in NYS for health care workers, but I had heard that some of them are fighting it.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:A large number of doctors and front-line health care workers in the US are refusing to get the shot themselves.

A large number of doctors and front-line health care workers in the US smoke cigarettes and engage in other unhealthy activities. It is more important that the majority doesn't smoke and, similarly, the majority is not refusing the shot. You can't base your medical decisions simply on the basis of what a limited number of fallible humans does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just heard a story last night on PRI's The World about how many European countries are not pushing the H1N1 vaccine as hard as here in the US.

Spain is actually NOT recommending it for children. And the German Medical Association isn't pushing for it either.

Are these doctors stupid?

Anyone who wants to listen to the story, here's the link:
http://www.theworld.org/

Scroll down to H1N1 Ambivalence

As they said in the report, the German Government IS pushing for all people to be vaccinated. There is a disagreement between the government and their equivalent of the AMA. And that group still want the high risk people to get it.

Spain is advocating it for high risk groups, which in the EU is pregnant women, health care workers, or people with a pre-existing condition. Lastly, the quote from the Spanish interview was very telling: "There is some sort of nonscientific reasoning in saying that this is not a safe enough vaccine".

So really, this comes down not to whether the vaccine is being considered safe by these governments. It is about whether they are better targeted at high risk groups or the general population. So they are not stupid and neither are our health authorities.

A large number of doctors and front-line health care workers in the US are refusing to get the shot themselves.

I once asked a doctor, "what would you do if this was your child?" He said, you don't want my advice as a parent. You want my advice as a doctor. He said that he makes the same emotional decisions that his patients do when it comes to his children, but they are not the best decisions.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A large number of doctors and front-line health care workers in the US are refusing to get the shot themselves.

A large number of doctors and front-line health care workers in the US smoke cigarettes and engage in other unhealthy activities. It is more important that the majority doesn't smoke and, similarly, the majority is not refusing the shot. You can't base your medical decisions simply on the basis of what a limited number of fallible humans does.

Yes, but those doctors don't smoke because they think it's best for their health; they do it because they're fallible. The doctors refusing the H1N1 vaccine are doing it to protect their health.

[Anonymous]

Lawsuit seeks to halt US swine flu vaccination campaign


Thu Oct 15, 6:10 pm ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) – New York medical workers took legal action Thursday to halt a massive swine flu inoculation program being rolled out across the United States, claiming the vaccines have not been properly tested.

Lawyers for the group filed a temporary restraining order in a Washington federal court against government medical regulators they claim rushed H1N1 vaccines to the public without adequately testing their safety and efficacy.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091015/ts_alt_afp/healthfluvaccinelegal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lawsuit seeks to halt US swine flu vaccination campaign


Thu Oct 15, 6:10 pm ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) – New York medical workers took legal action Thursday to halt a massive swine flu inoculation program being rolled out across the United States, claiming the vaccines have not been properly tested.

Lawyers for the group filed a temporary restraining order in a Washington federal court against government medical regulators they claim rushed H1N1 vaccines to the public without adequately testing their safety and efficacy.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091015/ts_alt_afp/healthfluvaccinelegal

Who is the lawyer for these people? He is saying a lot of things that are not true. For instance, he has apparently never heard of another attenuated virus flu vaccine before. And he appears to believe that controlled studies have not been done. He isn't going to get very far if he hasn't even read the newspapers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lawsuit seeks to halt US swine flu vaccination campaign


Thu Oct 15, 6:10 pm ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) – New York medical workers took legal action Thursday to halt a massive swine flu inoculation program being rolled out across the United States, claiming the vaccines have not been properly tested.

Lawyers for the group filed a temporary restraining order in a Washington federal court against government medical regulators they claim rushed H1N1 vaccines to the public without adequately testing their safety and efficacy.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091015/ts_alt_afp/healthfluvaccinelegal

Who is the lawyer for these people? He is saying a lot of things that are not true. For instance, he has apparently never heard of another attenuated virus flu vaccine before. And he appears to believe that controlled studies have not been done. He isn't going to get very far if he hasn't even read the newspapers.

Wow - I'm shocked. A medical malpractice lawyer is actually trying to sue? Crazy.

For those of you who think the flu vaccine is a big conspiracy to make pharmaceuticals company rich, look up the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act. In the last 1980s I believe there was a law passed because medical malpractice lawyers were essentially putting the manufacturer of a common vaccine, Dtap, out of business. Parents were suing, saying the vaccine hurt their kids, and juries were awarding the families ridiculous amounts of money, so the maker of Dtap stopped making the vaccine. There are just as many people (lawyers) getting rich off the anti-vaccine movement. The government, fearing the vaccine program would be wiped away, passed a law that regulates and limits these cases while still allowing people who are really hurt by a vaccine to have some recourse.

Just because a lawyer takes a case does not mean that the vaccine is flawed. I'm not knocking medical malpractice lawyers (though of course some abuse the legal system) but I'm pretty much betting I could say just about anything caused harm to my kid and find some lawyer willing to take the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also disagree with the CDC being the end all, be all of everything. Sorry, but I do not have blind faith in the government.

Doesn't anyone remember Thalidamide? A scientist in Europe detailed the birth defects that would occur with this drug, and the FDA continued to assure us that it was safe. Guess what? It wasn't.

The people at these agencies - CDC, FDA are only human. I'm sure they do the best they can, but there are other forces at work in the pharmaceutical industries that influence health care in this country.

You are so, so, so dumb it is just PAINFUL. You are completely wrong. ThalidOmide (emphasis added) was approved in Europe, not the US. The only American babies who suffered from complications were those whose mothers spent time in Europe while they were pregnant. There is really no excuse for being so completely wrong about something that can easily be fact-checked.

No need to be nasty. And personally, even after checking "facts" I wouldn't trust everything I read and hear. There is no such thing as a reliable source.

[Anonymous]

No need to be nasty. And personally, even after checking "facts" I wouldn't trust everything I read and hear. There is no such thing as a reliable source.

Are you even serious?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No need to be nasty. And personally, even after checking "facts" I wouldn't trust everything I read and hear. There is no such thing as a reliable source.

Are you even serious?

She's at least as serious as the posters who fear their children may be the one in a bazilliionth to get the flu so bad they'll die so they get them vaccinated, THEN they fear they'll be the one in a bazilliionth whose vaccinations don't take so they won't let them "mingle" with unvaccinated kids. Stupid way to face life, IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No need to be nasty. And personally, even after checking "facts" I wouldn't trust everything I read and hear. There is no such thing as a reliable source.

Are you even serious?

She's at least as serious as the posters who fear their children may be the one in a bazilliionth to get the flu so bad they'll die so they get them vaccinated, THEN they fear they'll be the one in a bazilliionth whose vaccinations don't take so they won't let them "mingle" with unvaccinated kids. Stupid way to face life, IMO.

You seriously think it's only one in a bazillion that is dying from H1N1? Have you watched the news?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No need to be nasty. And personally, even after checking "facts" I wouldn't trust everything I read and hear. There is no such thing as a reliable source.

Are you even serious?

She's at least as serious as the posters who fear their children may be the one in a bazilliionth to get the flu so bad they'll die so they get them vaccinated, THEN they fear they'll be the one in a bazilliionth whose vaccinations don't take so they won't let them "mingle" with unvaccinated kids. Stupid way to face life, IMO.

Yet it's perfectly rational to be concerned about catching dystonia from a vaccine, because that happens ALL THE TIME right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No need to be nasty. And personally, even after checking "facts" I wouldn't trust everything I read and hear. There is no such thing as a reliable source.

Are you even serious?

She's at least as serious as the posters who fear their children may be the one in a bazilliionth to get the flu so bad they'll die so they get them vaccinated, THEN they fear they'll be the one in a bazilliionth whose vaccinations don't take so they won't let them "mingle" with unvaccinated kids. Stupid way to face life, IMO.

Stupid is facing life without actually knowing the real numbers.

No, I take that back. Stupid is not knowing the numbers, and then mocking the people who do.

If you care to redeem yourself, why don't you report back with the consensus number of predicted infections and deaths from novel H1N1 this year, and the number of compensated injury claims for influenza vaccines in the last twenty years. Then let's compare those numbers and see where the stupidity is hiding.