How important is TJ for college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. And to make it relevant. TJ does not help in college admittence, unless you are in the top 10% of TJ -- that is the data.

TJ will provide differentiation at the very top -- 4 sigma -- that neither the SAT's will provide nor will the base provide.

What I am saying is 43% of kids with DD's stats got into UVA, 73% into W & M, and nearly 100% into VT, JMU, GMU,etc.

When I listed by conference, it was becasue of small numbers I took all of the applications to Big ten and all of the admittances. UM may be a problem, but Wisconsin was not. (24 of 26 admitted). Ohio State was not. Northwestern, sure.

4.2/1300 as a junior gets almost everyone into VT engineering? I doubt it.

I did not say VT engineer. I said VT. In my DD's case, she wants physics, not engineering.

Oh FFS. You can’t count VT, and take out the engineering numbers. If you want people to take you seriously, you have to provide actual numbers. Not cull them in the best possible light.

If the schools would provide the data on VT engineering I would break it down. I do not have the data. I have data for overall VT: numbers applying and admitted with the GPA. But not broken down by college within Va Tech. This goes for Madison and TJ.

There is no question that the average student at TJ will probably get into a better college than the average student in FCPS. FCPS has about 15000 seniors; TJ has 480 seniors. (400 from FCPS). And all of those went through a rigerous screening process.

I am saying to understand the role of TJ on college, you need to compare apples to apples: similar screening on students at the base school. And if you take the top 15% (75 or so kids) from Madison, Oakton, Langley, Mclean and Woodson (375 students), they do just as well cumulatively as TJ does.

Maybe even a bit better.

PP Where do you get your info? You're examples have been refuted by numerous posters. Please stop making up numbers. For ex, TJ's senior class is 430 students not 480.

I also don’t believe her claim that 15% of Madison gets into UVA.

. The PP did not claim that 15% got into UVA. The PPsaid that the top 15% do just as well as TJstudents. Not everyone the top 15% even applies to UVA. I know my two did not. Generally about 10% of the HS the PP named get into UVA. For example, at McLean usually around 50 get in and about 30 attend.

[Anonymous]

Isn’t Chantilly a governors school now too? It’s supposed to become a science and tech magnet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. And to make it relevant. TJ does not help in college admittence, unless you are in the top 10% of TJ -- that is the data.

TJ will provide differentiation at the very top -- 4 sigma -- that neither the SAT's will provide nor will the base provide.

What I am saying is 43% of kids with DD's stats got into UVA, 73% into W & M, and nearly 100% into VT, JMU, GMU,etc.

When I listed by conference, it was becasue of small numbers I took all of the applications to Big ten and all of the admittances. UM may be a problem, but Wisconsin was not. (24 of 26 admitted). Ohio State was not. Northwestern, sure.

4.2/1300 as a junior gets almost everyone into VT engineering? I doubt it.

I did not say VT engineer. I said VT. In my DD's case, she wants physics, not engineering.

Oh FFS. You can’t count VT, and take out the engineering numbers. If you want people to take you seriously, you have to provide actual numbers. Not cull them in the best possible light.

If the schools would provide the data on VT engineering I would break it down. I do not have the data. I have data for overall VT: numbers applying and admitted with the GPA. But not broken down by college within Va Tech. This goes for Madison and TJ.

There is no question that the average student at TJ will probably get into a better college than the average student in FCPS. FCPS has about 15000 seniors; TJ has 480 seniors. (400 from FCPS). And all of those went through a rigerous screening process.

I am saying to understand the role of TJ on college, you need to compare apples to apples: similar screening on students at the base school. And if you take the top 15% (75 or so kids) from Madison, Oakton, Langley, Mclean and Woodson (375 students), they do just as well cumulatively as TJ does.

Maybe even a bit better.

PP Where do you get your info? You're examples have been refuted by numerous posters. Please stop making up numbers. For ex, TJ's senior class is 430 students not 480.

I also don’t believe her claim that 15% of Madison gets into UVA.

Of course you don’t. Because you are so desperate to believe that you need TJ to get into UVA. You’re embarrassed to admit that TJ is a complete waste of time when your kid just ends up going to UVA anyway. And could just as easily form base school.

+1,000

[Anonymous]

Because the only thing that matters is whether you get into UVA. Your actual high school experience doesn't matter.

[Anonymous]

The whole point of this thread is to address the question, "does TJ help with college admissions"?

I have present data reported from the Naviance page showing where kids like my daughter were admitted. My daughter is a good student, mostly A's with an occaisional B and decent PSAT scores (not a NMSF). But she did not take any prep course for the PSAT. She will for the SAT, mostly to get more familitiar with strategies for the test.

The answer was a kid like my daughter probably would have no benefit at TJ for college admissions. She is probably in the top 10% (school does not rank) of her school. Definitely the top 15%.

My point was that someone like my daughter: top 15% at a better school -- and madision is a better school, has a 45% chance at UVA, 73% chance at W & M, and near certainty at Va Tech (not seperating engineering). And they have about a 5-10% chance of getting into an elite.

These numbers are not much different from TJ overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The whole point of this thread is to address the question, "does TJ help with college admissions"?

I have present data reported from the Naviance page showing where kids like my daughter were admitted. My daughter is a good student, mostly A's with an occaisional B and decent PSAT scores (not a NMSF). But she did not take any prep course for the PSAT. She will for the SAT, mostly to get more familitiar with strategies for the test.

The answer was a kid like my daughter probably would have no benefit at TJ for college admissions. She is probably in the top 10% (school does not rank) of her school. Definitely the top 15%.

My point was that someone like my daughter: top 15% at a better school -- and madision is a better school, has a 45% chance at UVA, 73% chance at W & M, and near certainty at Va Tech (not seperating engineering). And they have about a 5-10% chance of getting into an elite.

These numbers are not much different from TJ overall.

or to put it another way TJ helps for the top 10% of TJ who would be awesome at their base schools too but who actually are extremely bright and take advantage of the uniqueness of TJ

for the middle of the class to the top 10% its a wash they would have had similar college results from base school

for the bottom 50% of TJ it hurts and results are lower than if they would have stayed at base school and been 10% vs the bottom half of TJ.

So overall for TJ 10% net positive 40% neutral and 50% negative. You do the math folks

[Anonymous]

TJ doesn't help college admission. Period!
This is simply because colleges practice quota system based on various factors outside academics, including race and high school origin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole point of this thread is to address the question, "does TJ help with college admissions"?

I have present data reported from the Naviance page showing where kids like my daughter were admitted. My daughter is a good student, mostly A's with an occaisional B and decent PSAT scores (not a NMSF). But she did not take any prep course for the PSAT. She will for the SAT, mostly to get more familitiar with strategies for the test.

The answer was a kid like my daughter probably would have no benefit at TJ for college admissions. She is probably in the top 10% (school does not rank) of her school. Definitely the top 15%.

My point was that someone like my daughter: top 15% at a better school -- and madision is a better school, has a 45% chance at UVA, 73% chance at W & M, and near certainty at Va Tech (not seperating engineering). And they have about a 5-10% chance of getting into an elite.

These numbers are not much different from TJ overall.

or to put it another way TJ helps for the top 10% of TJ who would be awesome at their base schools too but who actually are extremely bright and take advantage of the uniqueness of TJ

for the middle of the class to the top 10% its a wash they would have had similar college results from base school

for the bottom 50% of TJ it hurts and results are lower than if they would have stayed at base school and been 10% vs the bottom half of TJ.

So overall for TJ 10% net positive 40% neutral and 50% negative. You do the math folks

Exactly. And the reason why the top 10% at TJ does better is because of grade inflation/score compression. It used to be that everyone with a A average was brilliant (3.7 and above). Now, any hardworking kid should have an A average. Basically, at the base school, you can not tell the difference statistically between two students at the top. For example, DD will not take 7 AP classes in 11 or 12 because she is in the band. That may hurt her GPA. But, the colleges will not care. On the other hand, she plays a very rare instrument, which they may need (assuming she is good enough). Same thing happens with the SAT score. Compression at the top.

With TJ, there is still compression at the top, but All A's or all A's with one or two B's will have you in the top 10% of a much better class. Of course, it is harder to get the 4.4+ at TJ than the base. So the to 10% at TJ most certainly get into the elites.

From 50%-10%, would be in the top 10% at the base school.

of 0-50 at TJ, they may well have been in the top 10% and probably at the top 20%. They could get into one of the better state schools at the base school.

And for all but the very top, TJ seems to be very stressful for the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole point of this thread is to address the question, "does TJ help with college admissions"?

I have present data reported from the Naviance page showing where kids like my daughter were admitted. My daughter is a good student, mostly A's with an occaisional B and decent PSAT scores (not a NMSF). But she did not take any prep course for the PSAT. She will for the SAT, mostly to get more familitiar with strategies for the test.

The answer was a kid like my daughter probably would have no benefit at TJ for college admissions. She is probably in the top 10% (school does not rank) of her school. Definitely the top 15%.

My point was that someone like my daughter: top 15% at a better school -- and madision is a better school, has a 45% chance at UVA, 73% chance at W & M, and near certainty at Va Tech (not seperating engineering). And they have about a 5-10% chance of getting into an elite.

These numbers are not much different from TJ overall.

or to put it another way TJ helps for the top 10% of TJ who would be awesome at their base schools too but who actually are extremely bright and take advantage of the uniqueness of TJ

for the middle of the class to the top 10% its a wash they would have had similar college results from base school

for the bottom 50% of TJ it hurts and results are lower than if they would have stayed at base school and been 10% vs the bottom half of TJ.

So overall for TJ 10% net positive 40% neutral and 50% negative. You do the math folks

Exactly. And the reason why the top 10% at TJ does better is because of grade inflation/score compression. It used to be that everyone with a A average was brilliant (3.7 and above). Now, any hardworking kid should have an A average. Basically, at the base school, you can not tell the difference statistically between two students at the top. For example, DD will not take 7 AP classes in 11 or 12 because she is in the band. That may hurt her GPA. But, the colleges will not care. On the other hand, she plays a very rare instrument, which they may need (assuming she is good enough). Same thing happens with the SAT score. Compression at the top.

With TJ, there is still compression at the top, but All A's or all A's with one or two B's will have you in the top 10% of a much better class. Of course, it is harder to get the 4.4+ at TJ than the base. So the to 10% at TJ most certainly get into the elites.

From 50%-10%, would be in the top 10% at the base school.

of 0-50 at TJ, they may well have been in the top 10% and probably at the top 20%. They could get into one of the better state schools at the base school.

And for all but the very top, TJ seems to be very stressful for the kids.

+1,000!

[Anonymous]

"And for all but the very top, TJ seems to be very stressful for the kids."

For kids that chose TJ, they WANT to be stressed. If they stayed at their home HS, they would take 10 or 12 AP classes or do whatever else was necessary to create the stress they crave.

And I repeat, going to TJ isn't all about what college it gets you into, a lot of it is about what college it allows you to do well at and graduate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"And for all but the very top, TJ seems to be very stressful for the kids."

For kids that chose TJ, they WANT to be stressed. If they stayed at their home HS, they would take 10 or 12 AP classes or do whatever else was necessary to create the stress they crave.

And I repeat, going to TJ isn't all about what college it gets you into, a lot of it is about what college it allows you to do well at and graduate.

Sorry, you still don't need TJ to do well at and graduate from college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"And for all but the very top, TJ seems to be very stressful for the kids."

For kids that chose TJ, they WANT to be stressed. If they stayed at their home HS, they would take 10 or 12 AP classes or do whatever else was necessary to create the stress they crave.

And I repeat, going to TJ isn't all about what college it gets you into, a lot of it is about what college it allows you to do well at and graduate.

If that is the case, either (1) you don't know the difference between "stress" and "challenge," or (2) shame on you for raising lab-rat kids who depend on high levels of stress and anxiety to motivate them.

When kids like that, and their school, are constantly held out as a source of price, it infects the whole system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"And for all but the very top, TJ seems to be very stressful for the kids."

For kids that chose TJ, they WANT to be stressed. If they stayed at their home HS, they would take 10 or 12 AP classes or do whatever else was necessary to create the stress they crave.

And I repeat, going to TJ isn't all about what college it gets you into, a lot of it is about what college it allows you to do well at and graduate.

If that is the case, either (1) you don't know the difference between "stress" and "challenge," or (2) shame on you for raising lab-rat kids who depend on high levels of stress and anxiety to motivate them.

When kids like that, and their school, are constantly held out as a source of price, it infects the whole system.

+1,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because the only thing that matters is whether you get into UVA. Your actual high school experience doesn't matter.

Your actual high school experience does matter. Why attend a pressure cooker school to end up at the same school as others who had a less stressful adolescence?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the only thing that matters is whether you get into UVA. Your actual high school experience doesn't matter.

Your actual high school experience does matter. Why attend a pressure cooker school to end up at the same school as others who had a less stressful adolescence?

And learn next to nothing and likely end up as an average college student.