What is Middle Class....Really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We only bring in 350k or so and we're definitely middle class around here.

Come on. You're an idiot or a troll.

We have HHI $365K and we're upper class.

-$1million house
-international travel yearly with 3 kids
-AND we max 2 401Ks yearly plus save about $50K more.

On no planet is $350K "middle class"

Do you fly first class?

i realize you're probably being sarcastic in response to previous poster.

But yes, we could afford it if that was a priority.

+1. Also in this income range and we do not fly first class (unless we upgrade with miles), but we could if we wanted to. It would be just a little less money that goes into savings that month.

[Anonymous]

All I know is that we net $18K a month and save/invest over half of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Your total outlay is $1,600? We spend a little bit under that just on groceries. We spend more than $1,600 a month between groceries and eating out. My husband spends $3,000 a month on leisure purchases just on one of his credit cards. How much do you spend on vacation? How much do you and your wife spend annually on clothes?

NP here and I can't even imagine spending $3K per month on leisure purchases on "just one of my cards."

agreed -- 3k is our vacation budget for the year.

Do you and your spouse have a combined total of 14 years of formal education post high school? And have each of you worked full time + continuously for more than 25 years? I'd guess not.

I'm single and have a master's degree and have worked since I graduated in 1992.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Your total outlay is $1,600? We spend a little bit under that just on groceries. We spend more than $1,600 a month between groceries and eating out. My husband spends $3,000 a month on leisure purchases just on one of his credit cards. How much do you spend on vacation? How much do you and your wife spend annually on clothes?

NP here and I can't even imagine spending $3K per month on leisure purchases on "just one of my cards."

agreed -- 3k is our vacation budget for the year.

Do you and your spouse have a combined total of 14 years of formal education post high school? And have each of you worked full time + continuously for more than 25 years? I'd guess not.

I'm single and have a master's degree and have worked since I graduated in 1992.

And one kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Not PP and I agree it's not struggling, but you forgot about student loans, utilities & house maintenance, car & life insurance, and medical care, among other things. All of this adds up to more than $1,000 a month. My student loan payment is $1000/month alone and I'm in the public service loan forgiveness program. And to keep that "middle class" lifestyle after retirement, most people would need to save more than the minimum $18k/year/person in 401k's.

I can definitely see some of those things being additional expenses, but not all of them, and certainly not at a deal-breaking level.

For car insurance you're looking at $200 a month extra at most. That's a rounding error in this kind of budget. And I would assume (or at least hope!) that by the time you are on your second child and have bought a million dollar house you have paid off your student loans. But hey, we are also talking about people who can't figure out how to make ends meet on $350K a year, so who knows, maybe they couldn't figure out that 2 or 3 more years in that 1BR without child expenses would have paid off their loans!

A quick quote from state farm says $2,000,000 in term life insurance is $253 a month for someone in good health. Assuming you are in good health and you're around 40 years old your medical bills shouldn't be too much, especially with the kind of insurance you can buy at $350K/yr.

You're right, there is more than meets the eye with regard to expenses, but the point remains that anyone with a modicum of common sense could easily run a middle class household on $350K a year, and it would not require much more financial savvy than that to figure out how to run it while affording a trip to Europe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not PP and I agree it's not struggling, but you forgot about student loans, utilities & house maintenance, car & life insurance, and medical care, among other things. All of this adds up to more than $1,000 a month. My student loan payment is $1000/month alone and I'm in the public service loan forgiveness program. And to keep that "middle class" lifestyle after retirement, most people would need to save more than the minimum $18k/year/person in 401k's.

I can definitely see some of those things being additional expenses, but not all of them, and certainly not at a deal-breaking level.

For car insurance you're looking at $200 a month extra at most. That's a rounding error in this kind of budget. And I would assume (or at least hope!) that by the time you are on your second child and have bought a million dollar house you have paid off your student loans. But hey, we are also talking about people who can't figure out how to make ends meet on $350K a year, so who knows, maybe they couldn't figure out that 2 or 3 more years in that 1BR without child expenses would have paid off their loans!

A quick quote from state farm says $2,000,000 in term life insurance is $253 a month for someone in good health. Assuming you are in good health and you're around 40 years old your medical bills shouldn't be too much, especially with the kind of insurance you can buy at $350K/yr.

You're right, there is more than meets the eye with regard to expenses, but the point remains that anyone with a modicum of common sense could easily run a middle class household on $350K a year, and it would not require much more financial savvy than that to figure out how to run it while affording a trip to Europe.

You think it takes 2 or 3 years in a one-bedroom to pay off student loans?

[Anonymous]

Many people with the high salaries have student loan payments to match. Add on daycare costs in this area - easily $2200-2400 per month per child and that's a big chunk of change for even a high earning household.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not PP and I agree it's not struggling, but you forgot about student loans, utilities & house maintenance, car & life insurance, and medical care, among other things. All of this adds up to more than $1,000 a month. My student loan payment is $1000/month alone and I'm in the public service loan forgiveness program. And to keep that "middle class" lifestyle after retirement, most people would need to save more than the minimum $18k/year/person in 401k's.

I can definitely see some of those things being additional expenses, but not all of them, and certainly not at a deal-breaking level.

For car insurance you're looking at $200 a month extra at most. That's a rounding error in this kind of budget. And I would assume (or at least hope!) that by the time you are on your second child and have bought a million dollar house you have paid off your student loans. But hey, we are also talking about people who can't figure out how to make ends meet on $350K a year, so who knows, maybe they couldn't figure out that 2 or 3 more years in that 1BR without child expenses would have paid off their loans!

A quick quote from state farm says $2,000,000 in term life insurance is $253 a month for someone in good health. Assuming you are in good health and you're around 40 years old your medical bills shouldn't be too much, especially with the kind of insurance you can buy at $350K/yr.

You're right, there is more than meets the eye with regard to expenses, but the point remains that anyone with a modicum of common sense could easily run a middle class household on $350K a year, and it would not require much more financial savvy than that to figure out how to run it while affording a trip to Europe.

You think it takes 2 or 3 years in a one-bedroom to pay off student loans?

If you're making $350K a year and haven't started a family yet and paying off your loans is a priority? Absolutely. You could do it in 1 depending on how much your loan balance is.

Take any average entry level couple in DC, (say $80K HHI) emulate their lifestyle, put all the rest towards your loans. Congratulations, you just paid off $140,000 in a year!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not PP and I agree it's not struggling, but you forgot about student loans, utilities & house maintenance, car & life insurance, and medical care, among other things. All of this adds up to more than $1,000 a month. My student loan payment is $1000/month alone and I'm in the public service loan forgiveness program. And to keep that "middle class" lifestyle after retirement, most people would need to save more than the minimum $18k/year/person in 401k's.

I can definitely see some of those things being additional expenses, but not all of them, and certainly not at a deal-breaking level.

For car insurance you're looking at $200 a month extra at most. That's a rounding error in this kind of budget. And I would assume (or at least hope!) that by the time you are on your second child and have bought a million dollar house you have paid off your student loans. But hey, we are also talking about people who can't figure out how to make ends meet on $350K a year, so who knows, maybe they couldn't figure out that 2 or 3 more years in that 1BR without child expenses would have paid off their loans!

A quick quote from state farm says $2,000,000 in term life insurance is $253 a month for someone in good health. Assuming you are in good health and you're around 40 years old your medical bills shouldn't be too much, especially with the kind of insurance you can buy at $350K/yr.

You're right, there is more than meets the eye with regard to expenses, but the point remains that anyone with a modicum of common sense could easily run a middle class household on $350K a year, and it would not require much more financial savvy than that to figure out how to run it while affording a trip to Europe.

You think it takes 2 or 3 years in a one-bedroom to pay off student loans?

No shit...a lot of people in this area have taken on a ton of student loans to be able to make that 350k salary. Not 50-70k but 200k for the household. And spare me the crap about "well they shouldn't have done that, I didn't do that" because the reality is that most people making that much have a ton of student loans. The question was also whether or not a family with 350k hhi could afford a FIRST class trip to Europe, which will cost at least 15-20k. Does anyone really think this family can comfortably afford to lay out that much while paying for the additional expenses which another poster's dumb budget conveniently didn't account for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not PP and I agree it's not struggling, but you forgot about student loans, utilities & house maintenance, car & life insurance, and medical care, among other things. All of this adds up to more than $1,000 a month. My student loan payment is $1000/month alone and I'm in the public service loan forgiveness program. And to keep that "middle class" lifestyle after retirement, most people would need to save more than the minimum $18k/year/person in 401k's.

I can definitely see some of those things being additional expenses, but not all of them, and certainly not at a deal-breaking level.

For car insurance you're looking at $200 a month extra at most. That's a rounding error in this kind of budget. And I would assume (or at least hope!) that by the time you are on your second child and have bought a million dollar house you have paid off your student loans. But hey, we are also talking about people who can't figure out how to make ends meet on $350K a year, so who knows, maybe they couldn't figure out that 2 or 3 more years in that 1BR without child expenses would have paid off their loans!

A quick quote from state farm says $2,000,000 in term life insurance is $253 a month for someone in good health. Assuming you are in good health and you're around 40 years old your medical bills shouldn't be too much, especially with the kind of insurance you can buy at $350K/yr.

You're right, there is more than meets the eye with regard to expenses, but the point remains that anyone with a modicum of common sense could easily run a middle class household on $350K a year, and it would not require much more financial savvy than that to figure out how to run it while affording a trip to Europe.

You think it takes 2 or 3 years in a one-bedroom to pay off student loans?

No shit...a lot of people in this area have taken on a ton of student loans to be able to make that 350k salary. Not 50-70k but 200k for the household. And spare me the crap about "well they shouldn't have done that, I didn't do that" because the reality is that most people making that much have a ton of student loans. The question was also whether or not a family with 350k hhi could afford a FIRST class trip to Europe, which will cost at least 15-20k. Does anyone really think this family can comfortably afford to lay out that much while paying for the additional expenses which another poster's dumb budget conveniently didn't account for?

I'm not sure what a first class trip has to do with anything. 350k is still a lot of money. You can prioritize it however you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not PP and I agree it's not struggling, but you forgot about student loans, utilities & house maintenance, car & life insurance, and medical care, among other things. All of this adds up to more than $1,000 a month. My student loan payment is $1000/month alone and I'm in the public service loan forgiveness program. And to keep that "middle class" lifestyle after retirement, most people would need to save more than the minimum $18k/year/person in 401k's.

I can definitely see some of those things being additional expenses, but not all of them, and certainly not at a deal-breaking level.

For car insurance you're looking at $200 a month extra at most. That's a rounding error in this kind of budget. And I would assume (or at least hope!) that by the time you are on your second child and have bought a million dollar house you have paid off your student loans. But hey, we are also talking about people who can't figure out how to make ends meet on $350K a year, so who knows, maybe they couldn't figure out that 2 or 3 more years in that 1BR without child expenses would have paid off their loans!

A quick quote from state farm says $2,000,000 in term life insurance is $253 a month for someone in good health. Assuming you are in good health and you're around 40 years old your medical bills shouldn't be too much, especially with the kind of insurance you can buy at $350K/yr.

You're right, there is more than meets the eye with regard to expenses, but the point remains that anyone with a modicum of common sense could easily run a middle class household on $350K a year, and it would not require much more financial savvy than that to figure out how to run it while affording a trip to Europe.

You think it takes 2 or 3 years in a one-bedroom to pay off student loans?

If you're making $350K a year and haven't started a family yet and paying off your loans is a priority? Absolutely. You could do it in 1 depending on how much your loan balance is.

Take any average entry level couple in DC, (say $80K HHI) emulate their lifestyle, put all the rest towards your loans. Congratulations, you just paid off $140,000 in a year!

You think that's how it works? It could take years for a couple to reach that income. It's not like someone starts making $350k out the bat (some do, but most of us don't).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not PP and I agree it's not struggling, but you forgot about student loans, utilities & house maintenance, car & life insurance, and medical care, among other things. All of this adds up to more than $1,000 a month. My student loan payment is $1000/month alone and I'm in the public service loan forgiveness program. And to keep that "middle class" lifestyle after retirement, most people would need to save more than the minimum $18k/year/person in 401k's.

I can definitely see some of those things being additional expenses, but not all of them, and certainly not at a deal-breaking level.

For car insurance you're looking at $200 a month extra at most. That's a rounding error in this kind of budget. And I would assume (or at least hope!) that by the time you are on your second child and have bought a million dollar house you have paid off your student loans. But hey, we are also talking about people who can't figure out how to make ends meet on $350K a year, so who knows, maybe they couldn't figure out that 2 or 3 more years in that 1BR without child expenses would have paid off their loans!

A quick quote from state farm says $2,000,000 in term life insurance is $253 a month for someone in good health. Assuming you are in good health and you're around 40 years old your medical bills shouldn't be too much, especially with the kind of insurance you can buy at $350K/yr.

You're right, there is more than meets the eye with regard to expenses, but the point remains that anyone with a modicum of common sense could easily run a middle class household on $350K a year, and it would not require much more financial savvy than that to figure out how to run it while affording a trip to Europe.

You think it takes 2 or 3 years in a one-bedroom to pay off student loans?

No shit...a lot of people in this area have taken on a ton of student loans to be able to make that 350k salary. Not 50-70k but 200k for the household. And spare me the crap about "well they shouldn't have done that, I didn't do that" because the reality is that most people making that much have a ton of student loans. The question was also whether or not a family with 350k hhi could afford a FIRST class trip to Europe, which will cost at least 15-20k. Does anyone really think this family can comfortably afford to lay out that much while paying for the additional expenses which another poster's dumb budget conveniently didn't account for?

I'm not sure what a first class trip has to do with anything. 350k is still a lot of money. You can prioritize it however you want.

Read the rest of the thread about the "first class to Europe" thing. 350k is a lot of money in Tennessee, not here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not PP and I agree it's not struggling, but you forgot about student loans, utilities & house maintenance, car & life insurance, and medical care, among other things. All of this adds up to more than $1,000 a month. My student loan payment is $1000/month alone and I'm in the public service loan forgiveness program. And to keep that "middle class" lifestyle after retirement, most people would need to save more than the minimum $18k/year/person in 401k's.

I can definitely see some of those things being additional expenses, but not all of them, and certainly not at a deal-breaking level.

For car insurance you're looking at $200 a month extra at most. That's a rounding error in this kind of budget. And I would assume (or at least hope!) that by the time you are on your second child and have bought a million dollar house you have paid off your student loans. But hey, we are also talking about people who can't figure out how to make ends meet on $350K a year, so who knows, maybe they couldn't figure out that 2 or 3 more years in that 1BR without child expenses would have paid off their loans!

A quick quote from state farm says $2,000,000 in term life insurance is $253 a month for someone in good health. Assuming you are in good health and you're around 40 years old your medical bills shouldn't be too much, especially with the kind of insurance you can buy at $350K/yr.

You're right, there is more than meets the eye with regard to expenses, but the point remains that anyone with a modicum of common sense could easily run a middle class household on $350K a year, and it would not require much more financial savvy than that to figure out how to run it while affording a trip to Europe.

You think it takes 2 or 3 years in a one-bedroom to pay off student loans?

No shit...a lot of people in this area have taken on a ton of student loans to be able to make that 350k salary. Not 50-70k but 200k for the household. And spare me the crap about "well they shouldn't have done that, I didn't do that" because the reality is that most people making that much have a ton of student loans. The question was also whether or not a family with 350k hhi could afford a FIRST class trip to Europe, which will cost at least 15-20k. Does anyone really think this family can comfortably afford to lay out that much while paying for the additional expenses which another poster's dumb budget conveniently didn't account for?

OP again. And here we are, arguing about whether a family earning $350k can afford a FIRST class trip to Europe, because apparently that is what's required to move out of the middle class. Having to fly coach to Europe on the family vacation lands one in middle-income land, I suppose,

And how do you think this type of out-of-touch bubble thinking is received by the real middle class in America, earning $80k combined, living in a 1500 square foot home built 50 years ago, paying the bills, and maybe....maybe....being able to afford a week at the beach?

Or, what about the lower-middle and working class, making do on $50k, and renting an apartment in a so-so neighborhood, and staying in a Motel 6 during vacation? Because that group comprises the largest voting block, and they are turned off by the bubble talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not PP and I agree it's not struggling, but you forgot about student loans, utilities & house maintenance, car & life insurance, and medical care, among other things. All of this adds up to more than $1,000 a month. My student loan payment is $1000/month alone and I'm in the public service loan forgiveness program. And to keep that "middle class" lifestyle after retirement, most people would need to save more than the minimum $18k/year/person in 401k's.

I can definitely see some of those things being additional expenses, but not all of them, and certainly not at a deal-breaking level.

For car insurance you're looking at $200 a month extra at most. That's a rounding error in this kind of budget. And I would assume (or at least hope!) that by the time you are on your second child and have bought a million dollar house you have paid off your student loans. But hey, we are also talking about people who can't figure out how to make ends meet on $350K a year, so who knows, maybe they couldn't figure out that 2 or 3 more years in that 1BR without child expenses would have paid off their loans!

A quick quote from state farm says $2,000,000 in term life insurance is $253 a month for someone in good health. Assuming you are in good health and you're around 40 years old your medical bills shouldn't be too much, especially with the kind of insurance you can buy at $350K/yr.

You're right, there is more than meets the eye with regard to expenses, but the point remains that anyone with a modicum of common sense could easily run a middle class household on $350K a year, and it would not require much more financial savvy than that to figure out how to run it while affording a trip to Europe.

You think it takes 2 or 3 years in a one-bedroom to pay off student loans?

If you're making $350K a year and haven't started a family yet and paying off your loans is a priority? Absolutely. You could do it in 1 depending on how much your loan balance is.

Take any average entry level couple in DC, (say $80K HHI) emulate their lifestyle, put all the rest towards your loans. Congratulations, you just paid off $140,000 in a year!

You think that's how it works? It could take years for a couple to reach that income. It's not like someone starts making $350k out the bat (some do, but most of us don't).

+1. The idiots on dcum are more out of touch than anyone else in reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not PP and I agree it's not struggling, but you forgot about student loans, utilities & house maintenance, car & life insurance, and medical care, among other things. All of this adds up to more than $1,000 a month. My student loan payment is $1000/month alone and I'm in the public service loan forgiveness program. And to keep that "middle class" lifestyle after retirement, most people would need to save more than the minimum $18k/year/person in 401k's.

I can definitely see some of those things being additional expenses, but not all of them, and certainly not at a deal-breaking level.

For car insurance you're looking at $200 a month extra at most. That's a rounding error in this kind of budget. And I would assume (or at least hope!) that by the time you are on your second child and have bought a million dollar house you have paid off your student loans. But hey, we are also talking about people who can't figure out how to make ends meet on $350K a year, so who knows, maybe they couldn't figure out that 2 or 3 more years in that 1BR without child expenses would have paid off their loans!

A quick quote from state farm says $2,000,000 in term life insurance is $253 a month for someone in good health. Assuming you are in good health and you're around 40 years old your medical bills shouldn't be too much, especially with the kind of insurance you can buy at $350K/yr.

You're right, there is more than meets the eye with regard to expenses, but the point remains that anyone with a modicum of common sense could easily run a middle class household on $350K a year, and it would not require much more financial savvy than that to figure out how to run it while affording a trip to Europe.

You think it takes 2 or 3 years in a one-bedroom to pay off student loans?

No shit...a lot of people in this area have taken on a ton of student loans to be able to make that 350k salary. Not 50-70k but 200k for the household. And spare me the crap about "well they shouldn't have done that, I didn't do that" because the reality is that most people making that much have a ton of student loans. The question was also whether or not a family with 350k hhi could afford a FIRST class trip to Europe, which will cost at least 15-20k. Does anyone really think this family can comfortably afford to lay out that much while paying for the additional expenses which another poster's dumb budget conveniently didn't account for?

I'm not sure what a first class trip has to do with anything. 350k is still a lot of money. You can prioritize it however you want.

Read the rest of the thread about the "first class to Europe" thing. 350k is a lot of money in Tennessee, not here.

It's a lot of money everywhere. Really.