Where will my Shepherd Elem kid go to middle/high school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Neither would be enough. Only really answer would have to be both plus Lafayette but that would suck to happen when both schools are 50-60% IB. To continue to zone out any schools while 50% of the school is OOB seems plain silly to me.

NP. Seems the obvious first step is to eliminate OOB feeder rights. Shepherd is something like 50% OOB, right? Stop letting people use it as a backdoor to Deal/Wilson. If that doesn't reduce the overcrowding enough, then consider whether realigning boundaries makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neither would be enough. Only really answer would have to be both plus Lafayette but that would suck to happen when both schools are 50-60% IB. To continue to zone out any schools while 50% of the school is OOB seems plain silly to me.

NP. Seems the obvious first step is to eliminate OOB feeder rights. Shepherd is something like 50% OOB, right? Stop letting people use it as a backdoor to Deal/Wilson. If that doesn't reduce the overcrowding enough, then consider whether realigning boundaries makes sense.

Last year it was only 35% IB, although it will likely be higher this year (don't think data is available yet). Isn't Hearst also majority OOB? I think with both schools, the OOB issue will go away over the next several years as they both become increasingly IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neither would be enough. Only really answer would have to be both plus Lafayette but that would suck to happen when both schools are 50-60% IB. To continue to zone out any schools while 50% of the school is OOB seems plain silly to me.

NP. Seems the obvious first step is to eliminate OOB feeder rights. Shepherd is something like 50% OOB, right? Stop letting people use it as a backdoor to Deal/Wilson. If that doesn't reduce the overcrowding enough, then consider whether realigning boundaries makes sense.

I think you need to look at the whole set of Wilson feeders before you kick a school out due to OOB percentages. And as the PP noted, the IB percentage at all of them is increasing.

IB percentages at Wilson feeders in SY 15-16 -- I've noted the schools which have programs for special ed students as that inflates the OOB % (students placed by DCPS because their IB school isn't able to support).

Shepherd 35%
Bancroft 59%
Murch 61% (special ed classrooms)
Lafayette 85%
Hearst 33% (special ed classrooms)

Hyde-Addison 42%
Mann 81% (special ed classroom)
Eaton 50%
Stoddert 73%

Oyster-Adams 43%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neither would be enough. Only really answer would have to be both plus Lafayette but that would suck to happen when both schools are 50-60% IB. To continue to zone out any schools while 50% of the school is OOB seems plain silly to me.

NP. Seems the obvious first step is to eliminate OOB feeder rights. Shepherd is something like 50% OOB, right? Stop letting people use it as a backdoor to Deal/Wilson. If that doesn't reduce the overcrowding enough, then consider whether realigning boundaries makes sense.

Last year it was only 35% IB, although it will likely be higher this year (don't think data is available yet). Isn't Hearst also majority OOB? I think with both schools, the OOB issue will go away over the next several years as they both become increasingly IB.

Yes, at all of the Deal feeders, the IB percentage is high or rising sharply (Hearst is now just over 50% IB as of this year; and both Hearst and Shepherd have IB waitlists for PK). Taking away OOB feeder rights will not solve the overcrowding problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neither would be enough. Only really answer would have to be both plus Lafayette but that would suck to happen when both schools are 50-60% IB. To continue to zone out any schools while 50% of the school is OOB seems plain silly to me.

NP. Seems the obvious first step is to eliminate OOB feeder rights. Shepherd is something like 50% OOB, right? Stop letting people use it as a backdoor to Deal/Wilson. If that doesn't reduce the overcrowding enough, then consider whether realigning boundaries makes sense.

I think you need to look at the whole set of Wilson feeders before you kick a school out due to OOB percentages. And as the PP noted, the IB percentage at all of them is increasing.

IB percentages at Wilson feeders in SY 15-16 -- I've noted the schools which have programs for special ed students as that inflates the OOB % (students placed by DCPS because their IB school isn't able to support).

Shepherd 35%
Bancroft 59%
Murch 61% (special ed classrooms)
Lafayette 85%
Hearst 33% (special ed classrooms)

Hyde-Addison 42%
Mann 81% (special ed classroom)
Eaton 50%
Stoddert 73%

Oyster-Adams 43%

15:36 responding. Those are interesting numbers; can you please post a link to their source?

I wasn't suggesting Shepherd should be removed entirely simply because of its high OOB %; if my PP came across that way, I apologize. I am suggesting that all OOB feeder rights - whether via Shepherd or any other school - ought to be eliminated as a first step to alleviate overcrowding at Deal/Wilson. Eliminating OOB feeder rights seems the obvious first step. At the very least OOB feeder students should be given a lower admissions priority than IB students, so the OOB feeder students will get admitted only if there are spots left after all the IB students and before max capacity is reached.

After OOB feeder rights are removed, if Deal/Wilson are still over capacity, then DCPS can assess how best to adjust the boundaries to control enrollment. But IMHO, given that it seems to take DCPS several years to evaluate after any move, it make sense to act soon on the OOB feeder issue, to get the ball rolling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neither would be enough. Only really answer would have to be both plus Lafayette but that would suck to happen when both schools are 50-60% IB. To continue to zone out any schools while 50% of the school is OOB seems plain silly to me.

NP. Seems the obvious first step is to eliminate OOB feeder rights. Shepherd is something like 50% OOB, right? Stop letting people use it as a backdoor to Deal/Wilson. If that doesn't reduce the overcrowding enough, then consider whether realigning boundaries makes sense.

Last year it was only 35% IB, although it will likely be higher this year (don't think data is available yet). Isn't Hearst also majority OOB? I think with both schools, the OOB issue will go away over the next several years as they both become increasingly IB.

Yes, at all of the Deal feeders, the IB percentage is high or rising sharply (Hearst is now just over 50% IB as of this year; and both Hearst and Shepherd have IB waitlists for PK). Taking away OOB feeder rights will not solve the overcrowding problem.

No, it probably won't solve the problem entirely, but it's a step in the right direction. Doesn't it make sense to take even small steps in the right direction, even if each of those steps in isolation doesn't solve the entire problem?

Eliminating OOB feeder rights couldn't realistically begin until the 2018-19 school year anyway, because there's no way DCPS would announce such a change now for the 2017-18 school year. And having watched DCPS, even if they announce elimination of OOB feeder rights starting in the 2018-19 school year, they'll put in some crazy long grandfather program to avoid whining from anyone. So even if they start eliminating OOB feeder rights ASAP, we won't see any actual change in enrollment for 3-5 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neither would be enough. Only really answer would have to be both plus Lafayette but that would suck to happen when both schools are 50-60% IB. To continue to zone out any schools while 50% of the school is OOB seems plain silly to me.

NP. Seems the obvious first step is to eliminate OOB feeder rights. Shepherd is something like 50% OOB, right? Stop letting people use it as a backdoor to Deal/Wilson. If that doesn't reduce the overcrowding enough, then consider whether realigning boundaries makes sense.

I think you need to look at the whole set of Wilson feeders before you kick a school out due to OOB percentages. And as the PP noted, the IB percentage at all of them is increasing.

IB percentages at Wilson feeders in SY 15-16 -- I've noted the schools which have programs for special ed students as that inflates the OOB % (students placed by DCPS because their IB school isn't able to support).

Shepherd 35%
Bancroft 59%
Murch 61% (special ed classrooms)
Lafayette 85%
Hearst 33% (special ed classrooms)

Hyde-Addison 42%
Mann 81% (special ed classroom)
Eaton 50%
Stoddert 73%

Oyster-Adams 43%

15:36 responding. Those are interesting numbers; can you please post a link to their source?

I wasn't suggesting Shepherd should be removed entirely simply because of its high OOB %; if my PP came across that way, I apologize. I am suggesting that all OOB feeder rights - whether via Shepherd or any other school - ought to be eliminated as a first step to alleviate overcrowding at Deal/Wilson. Eliminating OOB feeder rights seems the obvious first step. At the very least OOB feeder students should be given a lower admissions priority than IB students, so the OOB feeder students will get admitted only if there are spots left after all the IB students and before max capacity is reached.

After OOB feeder rights are removed, if Deal/Wilson are still over capacity, then DCPS can assess how best to adjust the boundaries to control enrollment. But IMHO, given that it seems to take DCPS several years to evaluate after any move, it make sense to act soon on the OOB feeder issue, to get the ball rolling.

The IB/OOB percentages come from the each school's DCPS school profile page http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/
The special education classroom listings are here https://dcps.dc.gov/publication/special-education-classroom-locations

FWIW don't think you can think about just Deal/Wilson. You need to include Hardy as well. I didn't list it, but they are still admitting more than a couple dozen kids per grade at 6th, in addition to students who come to Hardy via one of its feeders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The IB/OOB percentages come from the each school's DCPS school profile page http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/
The special education classroom listings are here https://dcps.dc.gov/publication/special-education-classroom-locations

FWIW don't think you can think about just Deal/Wilson. You need to include Hardy as well. I didn't list it, but they are still admitting more than a couple dozen kids per grade at 6th, in addition to students who come to Hardy via one of its feeders.

Thanks for the link.

I don't see how Hardy complicates the situation though. The short answer should be that whatever OOB students attend Hardy, whether via a Hardy feeder or via direct admission to Hardy, do not get automatic feeder rights to move on to Wilson. Their feeder rights are subject to Wilson's capacity limitations. Why doesn't that make sense?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The IB/OOB percentages come from the each school's DCPS school profile page http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/
The special education classroom listings are here https://dcps.dc.gov/publication/special-education-classroom-locations

If the numbers at these links are accurate, then Deal is only 63% IB (so 37% OOB), and Wilson is 50% IB (so 50% OOB). Seems like eliminating automatic OOB feeder rights would go a long way toward reducing enrollment toward capacity limitations. Maybe no boundary changes would even be necessary once DCPS eliminates automatic OOB feeder rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The IB/OOB percentages come from the each school's DCPS school profile page http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/
The special education classroom listings are here https://dcps.dc.gov/publication/special-education-classroom-locations

If the numbers at these links are accurate, then Deal is only 63% IB (so 37% OOB), and Wilson is 50% IB (so 50% OOB). Seems like eliminating automatic OOB feeder rights would go a long way toward reducing enrollment toward capacity limitations. Maybe no boundary changes would even be necessary once DCPS eliminates automatic OOB feeder rights.

Because DCPS has shown no interest in ending OOB feeder pattern rights. It is not on the radar at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The IB/OOB percentages come from the each school's DCPS school profile page http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/
The special education classroom listings are here https://dcps.dc.gov/publication/special-education-classroom-locations

If the numbers at these links are accurate, then Deal is only 63% IB (so 37% OOB), and Wilson is 50% IB (so 50% OOB). Seems like eliminating automatic OOB feeder rights would go a long way toward reducing enrollment toward capacity limitations. Maybe no boundary changes would even be necessary once DCPS eliminates automatic OOB feeder rights.

a) some of the kids listed as OOB at Wilson come from areas that were zoned out in the past couple years. So the kids may have been IB when they started and OOB now.
b) if the feeder rights rule got changed, there would be a long period of grandfathering kids in. By the time the grandfathering ended, the schools will be nearly all IB anyway. So it won't really make a difference for crowding at Deal and Wilson. I still think ending the feeder rights is worthwhile because it will keep kids from trying to lottery into Deal/Hardy/Wilson feeders and leaving their improving schools EOTP. But it's not a solution for crowding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neither would be enough. Only really answer would have to be both plus Lafayette but that would suck to happen when both schools are 50-60% IB. To continue to zone out any schools while 50% of the school is OOB seems plain silly to me.

NP. Seems the obvious first step is to eliminate OOB feeder rights. Shepherd is something like 50% OOB, right? Stop letting people use it as a backdoor to Deal/Wilson. If that doesn't reduce the overcrowding enough, then consider whether realigning boundaries makes sense.

If Shepherd stops being an OOB school, it might as well be no school at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neither would be enough. Only really answer would have to be both plus Lafayette but that would suck to happen when both schools are 50-60% IB. To continue to zone out any schools while 50% of the school is OOB seems plain silly to me.

NP. Seems the obvious first step is to eliminate OOB feeder rights. Shepherd is something like 50% OOB, right? Stop letting people use it as a backdoor to Deal/Wilson. If that doesn't reduce the overcrowding enough, then consider whether realigning boundaries makes sense.

I think you need to look at the whole set of Wilson feeders before you kick a school out due to OOB percentages. And as the PP noted, the IB percentage at all of them is increasing.

IB percentages at Wilson feeders in SY 15-16 -- I've noted the schools which have programs for special ed students as that inflates the OOB % (students placed by DCPS because their IB school isn't able to support).

Shepherd 35%
Bancroft 59%
Murch 61% (special ed classrooms)
Lafayette 85%
Hearst 33% (special ed classrooms)

Hyde-Addison 42%
Mann 81% (special ed classroom)
Eaton 50%
Stoddert 73%

Oyster-Adams 43%

15:36 responding. Those are interesting numbers; can you please post a link to their source?

I wasn't suggesting Shepherd should be removed entirely simply because of its high OOB %; if my PP came across that way, I apologize. I am suggesting that all OOB feeder rights - whether via Shepherd or any other school - ought to be eliminated as a first step to alleviate overcrowding at Deal/Wilson. Eliminating OOB feeder rights seems the obvious first step. At the very least OOB feeder students should be given a lower admissions priority than IB students, so the OOB feeder students will get admitted only if there are spots left after all the IB students and before max capacity is reached.

After OOB feeder rights are removed, if Deal/Wilson are still over capacity, then DCPS can assess how best to adjust the boundaries to control enrollment. But IMHO, given that it seems to take DCPS several years to evaluate after any move, it make sense to act soon on the OOB feeder issue, to get the ball rolling.

The IB/OOB percentages come from the each school's DCPS school profile page http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/
The special education classroom listings are here https://dcps.dc.gov/publication/special-education-classroom-locations

FWIW don't think you can think about just Deal/Wilson. You need to include Hardy as well. I didn't list it, but they are still admitting more than a couple dozen kids per grade at 6th, in addition to students who come to Hardy via one of its feeders.

The Murch number is wrong. It is 84% IB according to the school. The profile page is always wrong on Murch (for unknown reasons), but this time it is possibly due to the grandfathering of folks who are now IB for Lafayette.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The IB/OOB percentages come from the each school's DCPS school profile page http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/
The special education classroom listings are here https://dcps.dc.gov/publication/special-education-classroom-locations

If the numbers at these links are accurate, then Deal is only 63% IB (so 37% OOB), and Wilson is 50% IB (so 50% OOB). Seems like eliminating automatic OOB feeder rights would go a long way toward reducing enrollment toward capacity limitations. Maybe no boundary changes would even be necessary once DCPS eliminates automatic OOB feeder rights.

Because DCPS has shown no interest in ending OOB feeder pattern rights. It is not on the radar at all.

It would dramatically increase racial and income segregation in an already dramatically segregated school district.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neither would be enough. Only really answer would have to be both plus Lafayette but that would suck to happen when both schools are 50-60% IB. To continue to zone out any schools while 50% of the school is OOB seems plain silly to me.

NP. Seems the obvious first step is to eliminate OOB feeder rights. Shepherd is something like 50% OOB, right? Stop letting people use it as a backdoor to Deal/Wilson. If that doesn't reduce the overcrowding enough, then consider whether realigning boundaries makes sense.

If Shepherd stops being an OOB school, it might as well be no school at all.

Eliminating OOB feeder at Shepherd will not make it "no school at all." It still has really strong academics, an IB program, good specials. Even without feeder rights, you'd still see it with long waitlists of OOB as a big improvement over all the surrounding DCPS schoos.