Truck kills 30 in France

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course it matters if it is an ongoing pattern. They are Sunni Muslim extremists that want to wipe out all Shias as well. All the Muslims they attack are Shias.

That's not true. They kill plenty of Sunnis as well. Some of the ISIS guys aren't even very religious -- or at least don't know very much about Islam. To the extent that ISIS has a religious ideology -- they tend to be very flexible rather than doctrinaire -- they are Wahhabist.

ISIS is proving very adept at exploiting underlying resentments. They aren't simply reading Quran verses and convincing people to launch attacks. Rather, they find someone who is pissed off at everything and provide an outlet for that anger. Right now we are in a vicious circle in which attacks like this increase anti-Islamism in the West and that, in turn, increases alienation among Muslims. I fear that none of our leaders have the foresight to break the cycle and most Americans wouldn't support such a strategy if one did. So, things will only get worse.

I see what you are saying. I hate being afraid and having to doubt people. The thing is though the LA shooter and Orlando were not alienated. That's what scary. They both had jobs etc... And still turned. Same with Brussels terrorists. Something is happening. I have Muslim friends and they are probably one of the nicest families in DC and have been here for a long time.

I think you are mistaking the appearance of normality with a lack of alienation. I don't know enough about either the LA or Orlando shootings, but I can guess a lot of what they experienced. They lived in a country in which anti-Muslim remarks are common, in which a major Presidential candidate has proposed banning the entry of Muslims, in which another Presidential candidate proposed specific surveillance of Muslim communities, whose government is bombing Muslims over over the place, whose Congress is relentlessly pro-Israel and where even supporting a boycott is considered anti-Semitic. We know that lots middle and lower class white folks are feeling tremendous amounts of resentment due to an array of issues that appear to be undermining their way of life. Imagine overlying all of that resentment with the additional issues of being Muslim? In this country we have Trump telling the white guys that he will look out for them. These alienated Muslims have some guy on the Internet telling them he has a way to address their anger.

Why can't expat Muslims or Arabs support Israel? Is it in their DNA they can't, or are you just making that assumption for them? What exactly are the additional issues of being Muslim? By your logic, with so much oppression, every Muslim in America would be seething and taking up arms. The fact is, Muslims in America live in a free and open society. Part of that is being free to make horrible choices. Does Isis find them, or do they find Isis? Does the FBI find them, or do they find the FBI? Try again.

Israel is a new found country created by the British/America after WW2 to find the jews a homeland THAT didn't exist in 1940s. So they basically bought land where they could and also usurped land from Palestinian muslims to create Israel. I am all for the freedom of Israel BUT Israel should also accept the two nation solution and accept Palestine as Independent too. But that is not happening. This is a constant grievance for arab muslims. Notice Iranian shia muslims are not part of global terrorism network, because most palestinian muslims are Sunni. So you see why expat muslims(especially sunnis) from arab countries cant support Israel. It is no different than WHY Irish catholics were supporting SinnFein in the 1980s.

Well you are actually making the point for Jeff, NOT every muslim is seething with anger and taking up arms because most are mainstream. It is the same reason why not every black is not taking up arms against white racists OR not every angry white supremacist is not killing non whites. Most people are mainstream people. But there is always a violent and loud fringe that makes it seem worse than it really is. And some not so smart Americans fall for the loud fringe and want to act as stupidly and angrily as the fringe. BUT SO FAR the American leaders have been able to hold steady and understand all these dynamics BUT with the Short handed Drumpf, all bets are off.

I cant educate Americans who dont want to learn anything BUT simply spew ignorance because they suddenly have access to internet and they feel they are smart and feel like showing it to the world. Take a good, well written book and read and learn.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
These attacks have nothing to do with Israel.
And nothing to do with the west being intolerant. If anything, the west is too tolerant of everything and its confusing to them. Is the ideology they're turning t tolerant or rigid and doctrinaire?
The idea that these guys give two hoots about Palestinians is risible. They've sent whole cities of arabs into refugee camps.they've burned Jordanians (who are probably the only Arab country that significantly helps Palestinians) alive in cages.
And if these attacks are being carried out by immigrants, second generation immigrants, refugees, returnees, or infiltrators and/or converts how does weaning from middle east oil help?

You are missing the point. Several points actually. You have no way of knowing the opinions of these individuals regarding Palestinians. We do know that in the past, grievances about Palestine have been clearly cited as a justification for attacks. More importantly, the completely pro-Israel stance of the US is only one factor that contributes to the alienation of Muslims here. It may not be significant to some and it may be very significant to others. It is one factor in a long list of factors.

Weaning ourselves from Mideast oil would reduce the need for us to turn a blind eye to the oppressive regimes who we currently support. Why would you oppose such a effort?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I don't understand is why aren't we seeing US Muslims taking a major and loud stance against this, and really, unifying globally with others in the western world. This needs to be an absolute priority, and yet, we see and hear very little of it. This truly is a war and its time people started treating it like one rather than just apologizing each time something horrific happens, which now appears to be on a weekly basis.

They always take such a stance. If you remember in the aftermath of the Orlando attack, a Muslim leader participated in the very first press conference. He was roundly criticized here. I don't know why the groups are ignored or criticized when they stand against such attacks.

I'm glad he did that but you have to admit it's unusual. Muslim leaders should have been distancing themselves and condemning terrorism loud and clear a long time ago.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Because 70 abortion doctors were killed today? And fifty last week? And fifty the week before? And fifty the week before that? I'm pretty sure church leaders strongly condemn killing "thou shalt not kill". Its a commandment.

Are you saying that murders by Christians are acceptable because they are less common? Or are you saying that Christian leaders don't condemn their own religion, but rather rely on their religion to combat extremists? I actually agree with the second and don't understand why you would expect Muslims to behave differently. You can't expect them to condemn their own religion when they don't believe their religion justifies such atrocities do you?

[Anonymous]

Is there a neato image or filter for this yet that I can put on my facebook profiile pic? My Dallas one is getting dated. TIA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I don't understand is why aren't we seeing US Muslims taking a major and loud stance against this, and really, unifying globally with others in the western world. This needs to be an absolute priority, and yet, we see and hear very little of it. This truly is a war and its time people started treating it like one rather than just apologizing each time something horrific happens, which now appears to be on a weekly basis.

What American Muslims think of this: Not my circus, etc.

What you think they should be doing: Holding rallies and protests to tell ISIS to stop doing what they're doing, have American clerics denounce the actions of ISIS, welcome refugees to this country who are fleeing persecution... Oh, never mind.

They should be creating a campaign to protect their own youth against this evil ideology. This should be a huge and public effort. It is not something to joke about and it has nothing to do with new refugees.

Where are the Whites preaching the White Supremacists who killed Blacks in Charleston to STOP their hate. They should be creating a campaign to protect the white youth against this evil ideology of Racism. This should be a huge and public effort. YOU See, the issue is all these efforts are always happening, whether it is muslims or non racist whites. But you just cant get into someone's mind JUST WHEN they whimsically decided to kill AND CHANGE their mind before the damage is done.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Is there a neato image or filter for this yet that I can put on my facebook profiile pic? My Dallas one is getting dated. TIA.

[Anonymous]

I really don't care to understand WHY radical islamic terrorists are acting out. Not anymore. It's time to take steps to prevent these horrors from occuring. At some point, enough is enough.

[Anonymous]

Truck driver was in his 30's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really don't care to understand WHY radical islamic terrorists are acting out. Not anymore. It's time to take steps to prevent these horrors from occuring. At some point, enough is enough.

+1,000,000

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:I really don't care to understand WHY radical islamic terrorists are acting out. Not anymore. It's time to take steps to prevent these horrors from occuring. At some point, enough is enough.

I agree. If it could be solved by dropping a bomb, I would support that. But, we've dropped lot's of bombs and things have only gotten worse. If you want to cure a disease, you need to understand why that disease exists. You just don't randomly amputate body parts and hope it works.

[Anonymous]

I think a big part of the issue is that Muslims aren't integrating into the Western societies that they are moving to. Why is that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Driver drove a mack truck at a very high rate of speed straight into the crowd celebrating Bastille Day. Horrific.

And we keep bringing more and more radical Islamists into Europe and into the US (2 Virginia men arrested laser week for conspiring with Isis) and no matter how nice or welcoming we are we will be doomed.

I know it's not convenient to your narrative about the bad refugees, but one of those guys was born in Brooklyn. And the Paris attackers were born in France and Belgium and had EU passports. They all grew up in the West and then turned into something else. They weren't "brought in." Who knows what this latest monster's story is, but this problem is far deeper and more complex than recent immigrants and refugees.

Yeah, it's often the children or 2nd generation that becomes radicalized. That's why you shouldn't bring more of them in until we have a better solution to radical islam.

I'm Muslim- We, Muslims, have to find the answer to radical Islam. The United States or Europe or the west or whatever cannot solve the problem b/c they have absolutely no authority, the Imams who are in the masjid preaching that we (2nd gen) have to assimilate in the way that the Imams and our parents want are at fault. Xenophobic Muslim communities make these frankensteins. I'm a hijab wearing practicing Muslim and it is the fault of the Muslim community, not the west b/c when they teach that Islam means obedience they forget that it is obedience to the God who is accessible only in the hearts of individuals and that Islam is mostly about social justice and personal responsibility. where is this piece of the puzzle? Its not enough to say "this is not Islam, don't hate us/hurt us" we have to say this is not Islam at our dining tables when the young people mouth off about "Dar ul Haram", we need to speak out in the Masjid that the Holocaust is not a lie- it happened and the media is not controlled by anyone. We need to take responsibility when our kids are online listening to hate speech. This isn't the fault if colonization or western meddling- those are other issues but no these people are evil and there is no excuse for their behavior.

When Zayn Malik is more excoriated as more 'immoral" than Saleh Abdus Salaam- the cancer is in the community not the west.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a big part of the issue is that Muslims aren't integrating into the Western societies that they are moving to. Why is that?

You people just don't get it, do you? They aren't integrating, because THEY DON'T WANT TO. That's not why they are moving, honey. Don't you understand that? Europe is being invaded, and we're right behind them.

Sorry for the bummer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
These attacks have nothing to do with Israel.
And nothing to do with the west being intolerant. If anything, the west is too tolerant of everything and its confusing to them. Is the ideology they're turning t tolerant or rigid and doctrinaire?
The idea that these guys give two hoots about Palestinians is risible. They've sent whole cities of arabs into refugee camps.they've burned Jordanians (who are probably the only Arab country that significantly helps Palestinians) alive in cages.
And if these attacks are being carried out by immigrants, second generation immigrants, refugees, returnees, or infiltrators and/or converts how does weaning from middle east oil help?

No, they don't even give one hoot about Palestinians. But you underestimate how cataclysmic the creation of Israel in Palestine has been on the Arab collective conscience. And the U.S. maneuverings that made it happen inevitably implicate us, as well as some other Western powers.

You may think this all happened long ago and bygones should be bygones and Arab immigrants here should happily join in a round of the Hatikva, but that is not how such scarring events play out.

In a way, these attacks have everything to do with Israel, just not directly.