The problem with Bernie: he's not much of a Democrat

Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sanders is not vilifying Clinton. He is running because he sees how the democratic party is evolving, and Clinton is part of that evolution... Someone needs to stand up for democratic values and principles, and in doing so, expose how "the sausage" is made. He is advocating for a democratic sausage without all the unnecessary additives and fillers, and labeling of "non organic" (so to speak) political processes. He's very very good for the sausage industry.


3/26 - "Sanders hit former Sec. of State Clinton for her super PACs and again called on her to release the transcript of her speeches to Wall Street. The Democratic candidate said that his campaign is doing well because they are listening to the American people, not special interest contributors."

3/25 - "Sanders also pleased his fans with jabs at Clinton - scolding her Wall Street-funded campaign and her vote in favor of the Iraq war in 2002"

3/25 - “Don’t let anybody tell you that Hillary Clinton is the strongest Democratic candidate to take on the Republicans. It is not true,” Sanders told the crowd at Safeco Field.

3/25 - "Sanders directly criticized Clinton, taking her to task for accepting Wall Street money via campaign contributions and in paid speeches."

Sounds like he's hitting her pretty hard.



You seem to be objecting to statements of fact, among others. That makes no sense. Are you a fan of open democracy, or do you prefer a one party, one candidate system?

Not PP, but there's a lot more than statements of fact, and I object to them. Why should she release transcripts so they can be picked apart? Great advantage to give trump and Cruz. That's a stupid move. And he claims he's listening to the American people? Bull. More of the American people are voting for Clinton.


The GOP would not criticize cozying up to wall street, because that's GOP m.o. It's the democratic voters who would be critical of it. Asking her to release the transcripts is asking her to be accountable to her voters. So your complaint is stupid. If you want all these fillers in your sausage and prefer to remain ignorant of them, by all means. But arguing no one should know because it would turn them off to her sausage is actually unconscionable politics.


The PP acts as though it's horrible and offensive to acknowledge that this country should be by, for and of the people, as opposed to being beholden to Wall Street and corporate interests. That's a big part of what's wrong with America.


You guys are so dumb. Of course I'm pro campaign finance reform. So is Hillary. Her speeches mean nothing. They paid Colin Powell the same after he was no longer sec of state. It's not pay to play. Fight on policy, not on smears, unless you actually prefer Pres Trump. I'm starting to think you do.
And FFS, stop accusing those who disagree with you of ignorance. I am certain I have more knowledge and education about Amerocan Politocs than you do, so it's just silly.


Hillary has not nearly been loud or outspoken enough on reining in corporate influence, too-big-to-fail banks, corporate welfare, unfettered SuperPAC spending, lobbying, and she has definitely not taken strong and principled stands or put her words to action where she needs to. Sanders has.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I hate all of this party unity BS. The party is not unified. Some people (like me) really don't like Hillary. Many progressives see Hillary as part of the problem, not just some other Democratic candidate with slightly different views/personality. This is a big deal. I don't think progressives are going to march in lock step with corporatists and neocons in the Democratic party any more. Bernie needs to stay in the race.


Good. Then go vote for Jill Stein. And see how much you care about neocons when Trump is president,


Don't have to. Sanders is enough of an anti-oligarchy candidate.


Too bad he won't make it to the general. So it has to be Jill


A bit early to be saying that, Sanders is gaining more and more momentum and recognition. He's closing the delegate gap. jill Stein on the other hand hasn't gotten any farther than where she was 4 and 8 years ago.

Not enough people to get behind third party candidates. Best anyone could hope for is 10-15%. Even Ralph Nader is saying Sanders was right for running as a Democrat, and he should know, he got a lot farther than Jill Stein.


Oh? Is he supposed to have landslides I the upcoming primaries as well? Because anything less won't do
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I hate all of this party unity BS. The party is not unified. Some people (like me) really don't like Hillary. Many progressives see Hillary as part of the problem, not just some other Democratic candidate with slightly different views/personality. This is a big deal. I don't think progressives are going to march in lock step with corporatists and neocons in the Democratic party any more. Bernie needs to stay in the race.


Good. Then go vote for Jill Stein. And see how much you care about neocons when Trump is president,


Bernie has a better chance at beating Trump, than Hillary. If beating Trump is your goal, then why are you risking a Trump victory with Hillary.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I hate all of this party unity BS. The party is not unified. Some people (like me) really don't like Hillary. Many progressives see Hillary as part of the problem, not just some other Democratic candidate with slightly different views/personality. This is a big deal. I don't think progressives are going to march in lock step with corporatists and neocons in the Democratic party any more. Bernie needs to stay in the race.


Good. Then go vote for Jill Stein. And see how much you care about neocons when Trump is president,


This. I hate all the party unity BS too and don't think the party is unified, but I most certainly wouldn't sit this out in November regardless of who the nominee is. In the primaries, I vote for the candidate I align with most. In the general election I vote for the candidate I align with most., even if I view it as the lesser of the evils, especially when a supreme court justice and the Senate are in play. Honestly, my daily life probably won't be impacted by a president Trump, but there are many whose would be, and the country as a whole may suffer. I'm pro-choice, so I'm not sure I want a republican controlled Senate and Trump, who will want to be reelected, deciding the next Justice. Will most people in my socio-economic status or their kids be affected by and abortion ban? No, because flying somewhere else for the procedure is financially more than feasible for those who would make the decision to do so. Poor people, they would be subjected to backroom illegal abortions. I didn't love Gore very much, but I got out and voted for him because Bush was the alternative. Maybe some view having a disastrous Trump presidency as their best opportunity to get a "true progressive" in the White House, and are ok with the sacrifices others will have to make in order to get there, but I'm not sure throwing the less fortunate in society under the bus to reach your goal is a part of the progressive platform. I hope most Americans will choose to vote, but sadly, at the end of the day, self interest or self righteousness will win out with some.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I hate all of this party unity BS. The party is not unified. Some people (like me) really don't like Hillary. Many progressives see Hillary as part of the problem, not just some other Democratic candidate with slightly different views/personality. This is a big deal. I don't think progressives are going to march in lock step with corporatists and neocons in the Democratic party any more. Bernie needs to stay in the race.


Good. Then go vote for Jill Stein. And see how much you care about neocons when Trump is president,


Bernie has a better chance at beating Trump, than Hillary. If beating Trump is your goal, then why are you risking a Trump victory with Hillary.


Where are the polls showing this? If Bernie is too far left for some democrats, how will he do with moderate independents? I know polls aren't always accurate, but I'm curious what's your basis for saying Bernie has a better chance of beating Trump.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I hate all of this party unity BS. The party is not unified. Some people (like me) really don't like Hillary. Many progressives see Hillary as part of the problem, not just some other Democratic candidate with slightly different views/personality. This is a big deal. I don't think progressives are going to march in lock step with corporatists and neocons in the Democratic party any more. Bernie needs to stay in the race.


Good. Then go vote for Jill Stein. And see how much you care about neocons when Trump is president,


Bernie has a better chance at beating Trump, than Hillary. If beating Trump is your goal, then why are you risking a Trump victory with Hillary.


Where do you get this? And don't say polls, because they mean nothing at this stage. And they show her beating Trump handily btw.
All the GOP will have to do is say "tax increase." Because everyone wants healthcare and college, until they have to put money up. It's like you don't know the American electorate
Anonymous
Hillary has not nearly been loud or outspoken enough on reining in corporate influence, too-big-to-fail banks, corporate welfare, unfettered SuperPAC spending, lobbying, and she has definitely not taken strong and principled stands or put her words to action where she needs to. Sanders has.


+1
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Hillary has not nearly been loud or outspoken enough on reining in corporate influence, too-big-to-fail banks, corporate welfare, unfettered SuperPAC spending, lobbying, and she has definitely not taken strong and principled stands or put her words to action where she needs to. Sanders has.


+1


But that's just it. He's just talk. There's nothing in his political background that convinces me that he'll be effective in accomplishing any of this
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I hate all of this party unity BS. The party is not unified. Some people (like me) really don't like Hillary. Many progressives see Hillary as part of the problem, not just some other Democratic candidate with slightly different views/personality. This is a big deal. I don't think progressives are going to march in lock step with corporatists and neocons in the Democratic party any more. Bernie needs to stay in the race.


Good. Then go vote for Jill Stein. And see how much you care about neocons when Trump is president,


This. I hate all the party unity BS too and don't think the party is unified, but I most certainly wouldn't sit this out in November regardless of who the nominee is. In the primaries, I vote for the candidate I align with most. In the general election I vote for the candidate I align with most., even if I view it as the lesser of the evils, especially when a supreme court justice and the Senate are in play. Honestly, my daily life probably won't be impacted by a president Trump, but there are many whose would be, and the country as a whole may suffer. I'm pro-choice, so I'm not sure I want a republican controlled Senate and Trump, who will want to be reelected, deciding the next Justice. Will most people in my socio-economic status or their kids be affected by and abortion ban? No, because flying somewhere else for the procedure is financially more than feasible for those who would make the decision to do so. Poor people, they would be subjected to backroom illegal abortions. I didn't love Gore very much, but I got out and voted for him because Bush was the alternative. Maybe some view having a disastrous Trump presidency as their best opportunity to get a "true progressive" in the White House, and are ok with the sacrifices others will have to make in order to get there, but I'm not sure throwing the less fortunate in society under the bus to reach your goal is a part of the progressive platform. I hope most Americans will choose to vote, but sadly, at the end of the day, self interest or self righteousness will win out with some.


I always had a feeling that Obama could not have happened if it weren't for Bush. It may just be that the pendulum is swinging back in the other direction.

What's frightening about Trump is not knowing what he'd do. I don't think he's as conservative as he's trying to make out, but who would his advisors be? How much would he listen to them, and how much of a liability would his peurile little ego be? We've already seen how tragic the "governance as a business" approach can be.

So it's gotta be the devil we know this time around, but I have serious doubts about Clinton's ability to pull it off. People blame Nader for 2000, Swiftboating for 2004, etc., but it all gets down to the candidate and their aility to pull voters their way.

Qualifications aside, I'm not sure Clinton has what it takes. It's leaving a sick feeling in my stomach.
Anonymous
Here is a recent quinnipiac poll for one. Bernie has a better shot at beating Trump.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/2016-presidential-swing-state-polls/release-detail?ReleaseID=2333

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Here is a recent quinnipiac poll for one. Bernie has a better shot at beating Trump.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/2016-presidential-swing-state-polls/release-detail?ReleaseID=2333



Again, polls mean nothing at this stage

And here's this http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/24/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-cnn-poll-2016-election/

So?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here is a recent quinnipiac poll for one. Bernie has a better shot at beating Trump.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/2016-presidential-swing-state-polls/release-detail?ReleaseID=2333



Again, polls mean nothing at this stage

And here's this http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/24/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-cnn-poll-2016-election/

So?


Let's hope they mean nothing because it's not a good thing that a majority believe Clinton will win. Especially when the number that view her unfavorably is pretty close to the number for Trump.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I hate all of this party unity BS. The party is not unified. Some people (like me) really don't like Hillary. Many progressives see Hillary as part of the problem, not just some other Democratic candidate with slightly different views/personality. This is a big deal. I don't think progressives are going to march in lock step with corporatists and neocons in the Democratic party any more. Bernie needs to stay in the race.


Good. Then go vote for Jill Stein. And see how much you care about neocons when Trump is president,


Bernie has a better chance at beating Trump, than Hillary. If beating Trump is your goal, then why are you risking a Trump victory with Hillary.


Sure just wait until trump runs the first bernie ia a commie ad.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Hillary has not nearly been loud or outspoken enough on reining in corporate influence, too-big-to-fail banks, corporate welfare, unfettered SuperPAC spending, lobbying, and she has definitely not taken strong and principled stands or put her words to action where she needs to. Sanders has.


+1


But that's just it. He's just talk. There's nothing in his political background that convinces me that he'll be effective in accomplishing any of this


As barnwy frank points out, evefy liberal whose been in the trenches supports clinton. That tells me all I need to knowe about Bernie's effectiveness.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I hate all of this party unity BS. The party is not unified. Some people (like me) really don't like Hillary. Many progressives see Hillary as part of the problem, not just some other Democratic candidate with slightly different views/personality. This is a big deal. I don't think progressives are going to march in lock step with corporatists and neocons in the Democratic party any more. Bernie needs to stay in the race.


Good. Then go vote for Jill Stein. And see how much you care about neocons when Trump is president,


Bernie has a better chance at beating Trump, than Hillary. If beating Trump is your goal, then why are you risking a Trump victory with Hillary.


Sure just wait until trump runs the first bernie ia a commie ad.


Or point to this website so people can calculate their tax bill

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/3/25/11293258/tax-plan-calculator-2016
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