One compelling reason centers need to go

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many, many posters hate AAP. It's not a small group!! We just may not post.

Sure. Meanwhile, a few post the same tired rant over and over. It's obvious by the writing style.

Stop blaming the AAP center programs. All they are is centralizing of classroom groups of a certain tested potential ability, not some magical wonderland where kids relax in gossamer nests as they're spoon-fed the mysteries of the universe by Nobel laureates.

Don't be so afraid of seeming un-PC if you look at how gen ed is taught to the lowest possible levels of ability. Maybe your base school is excellent and full of well-off students. Many base schools are not. Staff can't do much when half the class is going to fail without heroic efforts, and make your school look bad. Half the class never does homework, a quarter have severe behavior and mental issues that disrupt the classroom, a number have very serious disabilities, and a number are struggling because they haven't learned English yet and their parents are working four jobs trying to make ends meet and don't speak English or understand the school system here. If your child can sit quietly and get by, he's not really challenged in this environment, and may well be miserable. My kids were. I don't blame you for resenting those who were able to get out, but don't make the AAP program the scapegoat. Focus on what's really the problem.

+100. GE in some schools may be a huge problem. But it is not caused by AAP. In fact, although it is very not PC to say so, ESOL and kids with behavioral problems or significant disabilities should probably be In their own class too, in some schools, so they can be appropriately taught, and do not drag down The GE kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many, many posters hate AAP. It's not a small group!! We just may not post.

Sure. Meanwhile, a few post the same tired rant over and over. It's obvious by the writing style.

Stop blaming the AAP center programs. All they are is centralizing of classroom groups of a certain tested potential ability, not some magical wonderland where kids relax in gossamer nests as they're spoon-fed the mysteries of the universe by Nobel laureates.

Don't be so afraid of seeming un-PC if you look at how gen ed is taught to the lowest possible levels of ability. Maybe your base school is excellent and full of well-off students. Many base schools are not. Staff can't do much when half the class is going to fail without heroic efforts, and make your school look bad. Half the class never does homework, a quarter have severe behavior and mental issues that disrupt the classroom, a number have very serious disabilities, and a number are struggling because they haven't learned English yet and their parents are working four jobs trying to make ends meet and don't speak English or understand the school system here. If your child can sit quietly and get by, he's not really challenged in this environment, and may well be miserable. My kids were. I don't blame you for resenting those who were able to get out, but don't make the AAP program the scapegoat. Focus on what's really the problem.

This sounds like our base school following a boundary change. Teachers in this situation are overwhelmed. No wonder - they have to obtain Title 1 credentials and additional classes to help them better teach these children. Every time I turn around I hear that there is more training going on or some new method to try. If I could I would move, but we do like our neighborhood. AAP has not only been a good fit for my children but a place where they'll get attention and learn things they'll never get at the base because many are not ready for it. At our base, any activity requiring work to be done at home is pretty much shunned since most of the student body would not be able to participate. Anyone who can do work at home has an unfair advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Colvin Run poster is one of the most prolific anti AAP posters and her message is always the same. It is really getting tiring. I would be upset if my kid was at Colvin Run in 6th grade, but would understand that the class was an anomaly both because Colvin Run has since changed and also because Colvin Run is one of the wealthiest schools in Fairfax and a center school feeding to Langley. I just don't understand why she paints the AAP program with such a broad brush. There are so many schools in FCPS with very few eligible AAP kids and very few gifted services available. She needs to get out of her Langley bubble.

Isn't she the same poster who makes such a big deal over Cooper being "AAP-free"? It is strange that she'd move to the part of the county with the highest concentration of AAP kids and then complain about it incessantly.

Uh... hello? There isn't just one person who has kids at Colvin Run and/or Cooper and feels this way. Perhaps the two of you need to get out of your narrow-minded bubbles and realize that AAP has done more damage than good in certain parts of the county.

LOL. The sun rises, another day for Colvin Run/Cooper/Langley mom to complain about AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Colvin Run poster is one of the most prolific anti AAP posters and her message is always the same. It is really getting tiring. I would be upset if my kid was at Colvin Run in 6th grade, but would understand that the class was an anomaly both because Colvin Run has since changed and also because Colvin Run is one of the wealthiest schools in Fairfax and a center school feeding to Langley. I just don't understand why she paints the AAP program with such a broad brush. There are so many schools in FCPS with very few eligible AAP kids and very few gifted services available. She needs to get out of her Langley bubble.

Isn't she the same poster who makes such a big deal over Cooper being "AAP-free"? It is strange that she'd move to the part of the county with the highest concentration of AAP kids and then complain about it incessantly.

Uh... hello? There isn't just one person who has kids at Colvin Run and/or Cooper and feels this way. Perhaps the two of you need to get out of your narrow-minded bubbles and realize that AAP has done more damage than good in certain parts of the county.

LOL. The sun rises, another day for Colvin Run/Cooper/Langley mom to complain about AAP.

+100. Feel very, very sorry for the CR principal having to deal with her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You didn't answer my questions.
What resources?
How would general education students benefit from having advanced students down the hall rather than in another buildong?

Oh - here's a few more:

How much would redrawing boundaries to adjust for moving students back to their neighborhoods cost?
Do parents advocating for this change realize it might require moving their children to different schools?

I'm not the PP, but I think most Level IV programs are run where the high performing GE students can push into the classes. Bringing back the Level IV students would provide a peer group for the high performing GE students. The curriculm would be more of a continuum, less of a divide between GE and AAP, and more like how high schools are run.

Moving the Level IV students out of the centers would also add balance to the centers. Many schools have issues with the AAP vs. GE divide. Whether actual or perceived, GE students feel like they are less smart than AAP. My GE kid told me he used to think he was smart until he found out he wasn't in AAP. We have to actively work on his academic self-esteem. Since five classes in his grade are AAP and only two are GE, it can be difficult to get him to understand he is still smart.

YES to the PP above. I also have a GE child who has five AAP classes in her grade and only two GE. You could be talking about her. The dynamics at these centers are horrendous for the GE kids, who feel that since they're in the only remaining GE classes, they must be "dumb". Nothing could be further from the truth, but try telling a child this when all they see are their peers in multiple AAP classes. If we had known just how bad sending our GE child to a center was going to be, we would have moved long ago. We would be thrilled to send her to a "normal" school, without all of this foolish AAP divisiveness.

These 2 PPs pretty clearly are the same person or go to the same school. 7 classes, 5 of which are AAP is 200 kids, 140 of whom are AAP. Except for the 6th grade (or 5th and 6th?) at GBW (which was realigned), is there another FCPS ES with those demographics? Because the situation described is not the norm.

Hunters Woods in 6th grade?



There is no other Center elementary school with such disproportionate numbers, according to FCPS Dashboard.

Isn't this the case for Colvin Run and Haycock 6th grade classes? It's the Vienna, McLean, Great Falls parts of Fairfax that need to eliminate centers and move toward Local Level IV.

Yes, this is absolutely the case for those schools and areas. Huge numbers of AAP kids and AAP classes.

Not the case recently for Colvin Run.

The current 6th grade at Colvin Run has four AAP classes and only two GE. This grade is a joke and FCPS should be ashamed of themselves.

But NOT the case for grades 3, 4, and 5.

So everyone acknowledged the problem, a solution was found, and now you are just waiting for the last grandfathered class to leave? And buy next fall, the issue will be solved? Can anyone name an ES Center with a 5:2 or 4:2 ratio that has not been boundary adjusted? If not, you are being alarmist and only telling half the story. Yes, the ration is 5:2, which is bad. But also-- FCPS acknowledged it was bad and took appropriate steps to ensure that the problem was solved. I get that you wanted the 5th and 6th graders sent to the "new" Center-- but as a mom of a child who moved to a different part of the County in 5th, it's incredibly disruptive. Expecting a kid to go to one Center in 3rd, another in 5th, MS in 7th and HS in 9th is too much.

I'm not sure what you're talking about, to be honest. What "new center"? Also, no one "expects" these kids to go anywhere. If they were expected to stay at their base school in the first place, we wouldn't have had these issues.

I am guessing this PP is referring to the Many, Many Students from Outside of Colvin Run causing the severe overcrowding of the AAP classes at Colvin Run.

Here is the data from January 2015 for the number of Many, Many Students from outside of Colvin Run.



http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/aapac/1415/AnnualReport1415.pdf

[Anonymous]

Another thing that is missing from the primary PP is responses explaining the anomalies. LA was extremely over crowed; effectively 26 6th grader, and 25 5th grades come from schools that should have been zoned for LA. In the 4th grade, they rezoned LA, reducing the number of readers, so the kids from CP, Flint hill, freedom his, stenwood, Vienna, Westbrier, and Wolftrap who were zoned for Louise Archer can now go to the appropriate school instead of the overflow school which was Colvin Run. The issue was the extreme over crowding at LA (Louise Archer).

[Anonymous]

The anti-AAP posters are fond of saying, in essence, this is a public school, and your snowflake is not entitled to an ideal education. So, something else the CR crazy seems to have not considered-- the 6th grade at CR is an anomaly at that school, and in FCPS. Her special snowflake is not entitled to a perfect educational environment, either. Sometimes being in a public school means that the demographics of one class at one school are not ideal.

Anyone in FCPS for any length of time has seen this-- a child with a long term sub, bad teacher, class of 33 kids, class in a trailer, mid year fight with a bestie who has turned on DC, etc. My ES aged kid was in class with a pregnant teacher who left before winter break three years running, FFS. The last time was her 3rd grade AAP year when the class size was 34 kids. It was not ideal. I did not make it my mission in life to take to DCUM to berate the FCPS maternity leave policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another thing that is missing from the primary PP is responses explaining the anomalies. LA was extremely over crowed; effectively 26 6th grader, and 25 5th grades come from schools that should have been zoned for LA. In the 4th grade, they rezoned LA, reducing the number of readers, so the kids from CP, Flint hill, freedom his, stenwood, Vienna, Westbrier, and Wolftrap who were zoned for Louise Archer can now go to the appropriate school instead of the overflow school which was Colvin Run. The issue was the extreme over crowding at LA (Louise Archer).

Thank you for adding this -- quite informative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another thing that is missing from the primary PP is responses explaining the anomalies. LA was extremely over crowed; effectively 26 6th grader, and 25 5th grades come from schools that should have been zoned for LA. In the 4th grade, they rezoned LA, reducing the number of readers, so the kids from CP, Flint hill, freedom his, stenwood, Vienna, Westbrier, and Wolftrap who were zoned for Louise Archer can now go to the appropriate school instead of the overflow school which was Colvin Run. The issue was the extreme over crowding at LA (Louise Archer).

Thank you for adding this -- quite informative.

You are welcome. Back in 2013, Louise Archer was exploding. The school had 823 students with a maximum capacity of 750 (and designed capacity of 700). There was no art room...there were no extra class rooms. There was no way to expand anything. Today enrollment is 703.

Now, another metric is sq feet per kid. At colvin run, it is 120; LA today is at 86 sq ft/kid...in 2013, it was at 79/ child, or 33% less room per child that Colvin Run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Colvin Run poster is one of the most prolific anti AAP posters and her message is always the same. It is really getting tiring. I would be upset if my kid was at Colvin Run in 6th grade, but would understand that the class was an anomaly both because Colvin Run has since changed and also because Colvin Run is one of the wealthiest schools in Fairfax and a center school feeding to Langley. I just don't understand why she paints the AAP program with such a broad brush. There are so many schools in FCPS with very few eligible AAP kids and very few gifted services available. She needs to get out of her Langley bubble.

Isn't she the same poster who makes such a big deal over Cooper being "AAP-free"? It is strange that she'd move to the part of the county with the highest concentration of AAP kids and then complain about it incessantly.

Uh... hello? There isn't just one person who has kids at Colvin Run and/or Cooper and feels this way. Perhaps the two of you need to get out of your narrow-minded bubbles and realize that AAP has done more damage than good in certain parts of the county.

LOL. The sun rises, another day for Colvin Run/Cooper/Langley mom to complain about AAP.

+100. Feel very, very sorry for the CR principal having to deal with her.

What about those of us who agree with her but are dads? You people are unbelievable.

[Anonymous]

We're not sexist. If you are as obnoxious and myopic as the crazy CR mom, we feel sorry for the principal at your school too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We're not sexist. If you are as obnoxious and myopic as the crazy CR mom, we feel sorry for the principal at your school too.

Not PP, but wow, just wow....I don't have a kid at Colvin Run, but I have friends at the school and am well aware of what a toxic environment it has become. I get that your kid's not affected, PP, but how about a little sympathy? After all, the only reason Colvin Run is in this position is that the school's base parents were either in the dark that their school was going to become a dumping ground for AAP spillover in the older grades or didn't whine and lobby as hard to get their way as the parents at Haycock, Louise Archer and some of the surrounding schools in McLean and Vienna.

Colvin Run, like Lemon Road, were losers in the battle to ease overcrowding at Haycock and Louise Archer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're not sexist. If you are as obnoxious and myopic as the crazy CR mom, we feel sorry for the principal at your school too.

Not PP, but wow, just wow....I don't have a kid at Colvin Run, but I have friends at the school and am well aware of what a toxic environment it has become. I get that your kid's not affected, PP, but how about a little sympathy? After all, the only reason Colvin Run is in this position is that the school's base parents were either in the dark that their school was going to become a dumping ground for AAP spillover in the older grades or didn't whine and lobby as hard to get their way as the parents at Haycock, Louise Archer and some of the surrounding schools in McLean and Vienna.

Colvin Run, like Lemon Road, were losers in the battle to ease overcrowding at Haycock and Louise Archer.

Thankfully, it will be better in 6 months when the 6th graders graduate.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]We're not sexist. If you are as obnoxious and myopic as the crazy CR mom, we feel sorry for the principal at your school too. [/quote]

Not PP, but wow, just wow....I don't have a kid at Colvin Run, but I have friends at the school and am well aware of what a toxic environment it has become. I get that your kid's not affected, PP, but how about a little sympathy? After all, the only reason Colvin Run is in this position is that the school's base parents were either in the dark that their school was going to become a dumping ground for AAP spillover in the older grades or didn't whine and lobby as hard to get their way as the parents at Haycock, Louise Archer and some of the surrounding schools in McLean and Vienna.

Colvin Run, like Lemon Road, were losers in the battle to ease overcrowding at Haycock and Louise Archer. [/quote]

Thankfully, it will be better in 6 months when the 6th graders graduate. [/quote]

It's hard to be sympathetic towards someone who takes a problem in one grade at one school (which has been corrected in the lower grades, btw) and uses is as a springboard for insisting, 24/7 and in every thread in this forum, that AAP is inherently evil-- when in fact, her experience (while frustrating and a legitimate cause for concern) simply does not reflect what is going on in most AAP Centers. And honestly, some of us are pissed by this poster hijacking every single threat to bitch about issues in CR's 6th grade (and possibly the 6th grades in a couple of other schools, like GBW), making it impossible for people with kids in AAP or applying for AAP to discuss anything else. Now if she started a "why the situation at CR is intolerable" thread to air her grievances, I don't think anyone would have a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're not sexist. If you are as obnoxious and myopic as the crazy CR mom, we feel sorry for the principal at your school too.

Not PP, but wow, just wow....I don't have a kid at Colvin Run, but I have friends at the school and am well aware of what a toxic environment it has become. I get that your kid's not affected, PP, but how about a little sympathy? After all, the only reason Colvin Run is in this position is that the school's base parents were either in the dark that their school was going to become a dumping ground for AAP spillover in the older grades or didn't whine and lobby as hard to get their way as the parents at Haycock, Louise Archer and some of the surrounding schools in McLean and Vienna.

Colvin Run, like Lemon Road, were losers in the battle to ease overcrowding at Haycock and Louise Archer.

So Lemon Road got renovated and expanded, received an AAP center, and is now a "10" on Great Schools. As opposed to getting reassigned more low-income Freedom Hill ES students from the garden apartments behind Marshall HS, which is what FCPS originally contemplated. Life is so unfair.