Teachers are NOT the enemy!

[Anonymous]

I'm disturbed by all the anti-gifted spew in this thread. One reason parents of gifted kids speak up so often about their kids not being advanced is because they are some of the few parents that are in a position to have hard, data-based "evidence" that the system will listen to about whether their child is performing above grade-level and can handle harder material.

For example, if your child is in 3rd grade math and has an IQ in the 99%ile and is getting MAP-Rs in the 99%ile, then you have pretty good "data" to suggest that your child is capable of higher level work either in class or being advanced to the next grade level.

If, by contrast, your child scores at the 60%ile on the MAP-R or has an "average" IQ, then the system will look at that "data" and say, "see, your DC is just not that smart/capable/ready for advanced work." We all know that isn't necessarily true -- there are "average" IQ kids who are really hard workers, who love a particular subject or are very strong in one subject over others or who simply don't test well and for whom testing data is not reflective of their true abilities. But, these cases are much harder to "argue" with the system.

I'm not saying it's right -- I think probably lots more kids could handle more rigorous academic work. But, it's very hard to fight against a system that wants to deliver the same academic package to everyone for reasons of efficiency of scale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm disturbed by all the anti-gifted spew in this thread. One reason parents of gifted kids speak up so often about their kids not being advanced is because they are some of the few parents that are in a position to have hard, data-based "evidence" that the system will listen to about whether their child is performing above grade-level and can handle harder material.

To repeat a PP -- this thread is not about you. And if it's not about you, why make it about you?

[Anonymous]

Here's the 4th grade education level version: What if 30% of all students scored a perfect 2400 on the SAT exam and another 80% scored 2200 and/or above?

What would you think about the SAT exam?

What would you think about the students taking the SAT exam?

Would you think the SAT is a useful exam?

What do you think is the purpose of grades? Separating the sheep from the goats, or measuring what you have learned?

I agree with you here as you and other MCPS parents should not be surprised when the vast, vast, majority of your honor roll and straight A children will never see the halls of Stanford, MIT, or the Ivy leagues (or other top colleges) since all these grades simply mean the sheep and goats in MCPS have only met the bar provided to them by MCPS teachers in their watered down curricula?

That's far too low a bar for top colleges and Professors at the next level. But, it always amazes me when parents and their children argue over their skewed GPAs as if there is a materially difference between straight As (2400) and a 3.7 (> 2100) when their golden child is denied admission over another student. When 80% of all students are on the honor roll and one third have straight As in MCPS why argue with another parent or student who got into Harvard and your child did not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Completely agree with 8:29-

Saying you hate it when parents want their kids placed in higher level classes than what they are capable is really an arrogant statement. When you have 30 kids in your classroom, how do you really know the capabilities of each student?

I as a parent will move mountains to ensure that my kids are prepared for class. If my kid has an average IQ and works twice as hard as the other kids in the class but at the end of the day also earns an A, what's your beef?

I get it that some parents are entitled and want special treatment for their snowflakes in the advanced class. That would irk me too. If I'm not asking for special treatment, what's wrong with giving my DS a chance?

Signed-

A mom whose kids always earn straight A's but still has to fight like hell with teachers like you to keep in them in the highest levels.

Schools would be more likely to let kids try working at higher levels, but people like you will immediately blame the teachers if it doesn't go well.

Our principal had a solution to this (back in the day when she was allowed to advance kids at all, and when advancement was predicated on multiple data-based indicators) -- parents had to sign a recommendation sheet which showed the different indicators, and gave the "suggested" placement. If parents disagreed with the placement (whether they saw it as too "high" or too "low") they were allowed to choose the child's placement but they had to check the placement they preferred and sign and return the placement sheet. In this way, if they child was placed too "high" and failed, the parents understood that they were responsible for their choice. And so it should be, IMO. I think hard school gate-keeping is problematic for a number of reasons.

I would have signed the form in a heartbeat. BTW-In our case our strong student who was not deemed good enough for the most advanced class in MCPS was accepted to an elite college's competitive summer program in the same subject for young students the same year. I found the MCPS teacher to be ridiculous and insulting. BTW- my straight A kid earned an A in the class though it was theoretically above my DC's "ability".

[Anonymous]

I would have signed the form in a heartbeat. BTW-In our case our strong student who was not deemed good enough for the most advanced class in MCPS was accepted to an elite college's competitive summer program in the same subject for young students the same year. I found the MCPS teacher to be ridiculous and insulting. BTW- my straight A kid earned an A in the class though it was theoretically above my DC's "ability".

As a professor in elite university summer programs on both East and West coasts you should know admission into these programs is based primarily on your willingness to pay our summer fees (these programs are for generating income for the enterprise) and not whether your child is a super star. Do not equate the admission's standard for summer programs to that of the regular school year. They are not the same and the mission and objectives are different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I agree with you here as you and other MCPS parents should not be surprised when the vast, vast, majority of your honor roll and straight A children will never see the halls of Stanford, MIT, or the Ivy leagues (or other top colleges) since all these grades simply mean the sheep and goats in MCPS have only met the bar provided to them by MCPS teachers in their watered down curricula?

That's far too low a bar for top colleges and Professors at the next level. But, it always amazes me when parents and their children argue over their skewed GPAs as if there is a materially difference between straight As (2400) and a 3.7 (> 2100) when their golden child is denied admission over another student. When 80% of all students are on the honor roll and one third have straight As in MCPS why argue with another parent or student who got into Harvard and your child did not.

I apologize, but I'm afraid that I don't think I understand your point.

Are you saying that MCPS has a watered-down curriculum, and that the proof of this is that there are lots of MCPS honor-roll graduates with straight As who didn't get admitted to Stanford, MIT, or the Ivy Leagues?

[Anonymous]

I teach several "advanced" classes. I have to dumb them down because I have so many kids parent placed into them against their prior teacher's recommendations.

When I teach the way I want to/should be able to for an advanced course, I find half the kids are failing, and in an advanced class that means parents are calling admin or scheduling conferences to discuss what I'm doing wrong.

Really, my "regular" and my "advanced" classes for the same subject are 90% the same, and I'll throw one or two challenge questions at the kids because that's all half of them can handle.

It's a shame, but I tried doing things the "right" way and holding standards high, and I got into too much hot water. Everyone is happier with me dumbing stuff down so that kids who aren't necessarily talented at a subject but are willing to work hard can be successful.

[Anonymous]

I apologize, but I'm afraid that I don't think I understand your point.

Are you saying that MCPS has a watered-down curriculum, and that the proof of this is that there are lots of MCPS honor-roll graduates with straight As who didn't get admitted to Stanford, MIT, or the Ivy Leagues?

Why should Harvard, MIT and Stanford accept the applicant students in MCPS with straight As or on the honor roll...if the majority of the MCPS student body is on the honor roll? These are all superb students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I would have signed the form in a heartbeat. BTW-In our case our strong student who was not deemed good enough for the most advanced class in MCPS was accepted to an elite college's competitive summer program in the same subject for young students the same year. I found the MCPS teacher to be ridiculous and insulting. BTW- my straight A kid earned an A in the class though it was theoretically above my DC's "ability".

As a professor in elite university summer programs on both East and West coasts you should know admission into these programs is based primarily on your willingness to pay our summer fees (these programs are for generating income for the enterprise) and not whether your child is a super star. Do not equate the admission's standard for summer programs to that of the regular school year. They are not the same and the mission and objectives are different.

At the school my DC went to over the summer, there were two programs. One like you mentioned above, and another that was competitive (though not as competitive as regular admissions I'm sure). They had a 25 percent acceptance rate. I totally agree that the material shouldn't be watered down at MCPS. If my DC couldn't handle it DC didn't belong there but DC did and earned an A. I don't understand the logic of holding down my DC. Why didn't you pick on some kid who earned a B in your class? Is it because my DC doesn't wear fancy clothes and I don't drive a fancy car or live in the "right" neighborhood? Is is because you want to be the "cool" teacher?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm disturbed by all the anti-gifted spew in this thread. One reason parents of gifted kids speak up so often about their kids not being advanced is because they are some of the few parents that are in a position to have hard, data-based "evidence" that the system will listen to about whether their child is performing above grade-level and can handle harder material.

To repeat a PP -- this thread is not about you. And if it's not about you, why make it about you?

+1. In your post you mention 99th percentile kids, but this thread is not about the 99th percentile kids who have their own magnets and other programs. This thread is about the kids in regular MCPS schools. Instead of hijacking this thread, why not start your own thread about 99th percentile kids. TIA!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I apologize, but I'm afraid that I don't think I understand your point.

Are you saying that MCPS has a watered-down curriculum, and that the proof of this is that there are lots of MCPS honor-roll graduates with straight As who didn't get admitted to Stanford, MIT, or the Ivy Leagues?

Why should Harvard, MIT and Stanford accept the applicant students in MCPS with straight As or on the honor roll...if the majority of the MCPS student body is on the honor roll? These are all superb students?

So that is what you're saying? You shouldn't be on the honor roll and getting straight As unless you're somebody who can get accepted to Harvard? (Keeping in mind that Harvard accepts about 2,000 people a year.) Really?

I'm speechless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I apologize, but I'm afraid that I don't think I understand your point.

Are you saying that MCPS has a watered-down curriculum, and that the proof of this is that there are lots of MCPS honor-roll graduates with straight As who didn't get admitted to Stanford, MIT, or the Ivy Leagues?

Why should Harvard, MIT and Stanford accept the applicant students in MCPS with straight As or on the honor roll...if the majority of the MCPS student body is on the honor roll? These are all superb students?

Harvard, MIT and Stanford are NOT accepting every MCPS student with straight As or honor roll. To get into these schools you need so much more: Intel prizes, 5s in AP Calc BC, and SATs of 2250 or above.

Look, there are two possible goals of grading:
(1) Measure if a kid has learned what was taught. This actually says nothing about the difficulty of what's being taught, BTW. An "A" only means that teachers have taught it and that kids have learned it.
(2) Separate sheep from goats (another PP said this, but I like it). In that case, re-curve the grades so that the bell curve is centered over a "C" grade (or maybe a "B" grade). The average kid in every class gets Cs and only 5-10% of kids get As or Fs. But then it's not clear what you're measuring, whether hard work or smarts. In any case, can you imagine this actually happening in the DMV area? Parents would be shrieking with anger!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I would have signed the form in a heartbeat. BTW-In our case our strong student who was not deemed good enough for the most advanced class in MCPS was accepted to an elite college's competitive summer program in the same subject for young students the same year. I found the MCPS teacher to be ridiculous and insulting. BTW- my straight A kid earned an A in the class though it was theoretically above my DC's "ability".

As a professor in elite university summer programs on both East and West coasts you should know admission into these programs is based primarily on your willingness to pay our summer fees (these programs are for generating income for the enterprise) and not whether your child is a super star. Do not equate the admission's standard for summer programs to that of the regular school year. They are not the same and the mission and objectives are different.

At the school my DC went to over the summer, there were two programs. One like you mentioned above, and another that was competitive (though not as competitive as regular admissions I'm sure). They had a 25 percent acceptance rate. I totally agree that the material shouldn't be watered down at MCPS. If my DC couldn't handle it DC didn't belong there but DC did and earned an A. I don't understand the logic of holding down my DC. Why didn't you pick on some kid who earned a B in your class? Is it because my DC doesn't wear fancy clothes and I don't drive a fancy car or live in the "right" neighborhood? Is is because you want to be the "cool" teacher?

Different PP here. Could you mention which program this is? Because I've read in many places that most college summer programs are basically cash cows for colleges, another way to raise money. In many summer programs you're not taught by the college's own faculty.

[Anonymous]

Let's be clear here.

Curriculum 2.0 and the 50% rule were implemented under Weast, not Starr.

And I'm no Starr fan.

But what's fair is fair.

Anonymous wrote:

This doesn't make sense. Joshua Starr arrived in July 2011. And by "watered down curriculum", you mean Curriculum 2.0, right? But if your child is bringing home As semester after semester, your child's curriculum has not been Curriculum 2.0, and much of their schooling was in an MCPS not superintended by Starr. And especially the MCPS students who are now failing (you say) in top flight colleges and universities did not have Curriculum 2.0, and almost none of their schooling was in an MCPS superintended by Starr.

Nonsense. The grade inflation existed before Curriculum 2.0 and during Curriculum 2.0 implemtation. And it contiunes after Curriculum 2.0 implementation. And for the last decade and this decade. It is absolutely assinine that a student population (normal distribution) will have 80% make the honor roll and 30 % with stright As. This is stupid. What then is the puropse of grades? Why not get rid of all grades if you make a mockery of the process.

Guess who the students are who do not make the honor roll? I wonder if these are the kids without voices or parents like you hovering over the schools? Or kids who are not representative of the lousy teachers who are supposedly teaching them?

Mr Starr and his phony educational experts have failed when shools in their system have 80% on the honor roll. Are all these students simply taking the same water downed course materials over and over again?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
At the school my DC went to over the summer, there were two programs. One like you mentioned above, and another that was competitive (though not as competitive as regular admissions I'm sure). They had a 25 percent acceptance rate. I totally agree that the material shouldn't be watered down at MCPS. If my DC couldn't handle it DC didn't belong there but DC did and earned an A. I don't understand the logic of holding down my DC. Why didn't you pick on some kid who earned a B in your class? Is it because my DC doesn't wear fancy clothes and I don't drive a fancy car or live in the "right" neighborhood? Is is because you want to be the "cool" teacher?

Where did this come from?