Bad News for Test Prep Parents

[Anonymous]

You don't get it. It is not the same thing. Training for football is training for football. Anything they use to evaluate a football player's potential is based on skills they will need on the field.

The best sports analog I can come up with is prepping for the cogat is like knowing what pitch is coming in baseball. I can hit the ball consistently if I know exactly what pitch is comming. That is not a useful skill. The skill is to be able to read the pitch as pitched and adjust the swing (or decide not to swing). If you tell Bryce Harper that an inside fastball is comming, he will hit it out of the park every time.

The analogy of test prep for the CogAT -- something that does nothing other than increase the CogAT score, which is not a life skill. Similarly, evaluating my hitting, telling me where and what pitches will be thrown might make my hitting look good, but it will not help me in a game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: ...
Prepping for class and homework at 7 leads to prepping for tests, college, grad school and then the work place. For Peyton, the work place is now NFL games, for the brain surgeon it is the neuroblastoma on the schedule for tomorrow, and for the lawyer preparing to argue a case before the Supreme Court.

These habits are not turned on like a switch when one starts life's work. It is ingrained into behavioral DNA early in life for many like Peyton, Phelps and Supreme Chief Justice Roberts.

And how does prepping for the CogAT equate to prepping for class?

[Anonymous]

Exactly why the CogAt, or FxAt, should be administered every year (if it even needs to be given at all); to catch the many ways children's problem solving skills (not intelligence, BTW) will change over time.

You are very eccentric and your "arguments," such as they are, have no relevance on this thread. What on earth does the Bible have to do with this?

Please explain?

What is the distinction you are making between intelligence and problem solving?

What is your definition of intelligence? Where is it produced? What organ (s) is responsible for intelligence?

[Anonymous]

Fundimentally, a gifted child does not need to prep for these tests. The gifted child does not need to do multple drill and practices to get something. The gifted child will do the work until they understand it, then move on to something else. The gift child will hate busy work. A truly gifted report card in Elementry School would be 4's in subject knowlege and 1's in does the homework: they ace the test while doing a minimal amount of homework.

[Anonymous]

I think we can all agree that prepping does increase a child's score. I was VERY against any kind of prepping until I bumped into some crazy moms sending their kids to classes and prepping months/years in advance. SO - I prepped my son with some practice questions and going over the ones he got wrong gave him confidence and he understood some of the ones he didn't quite get. He is quite bright and I figured he'd get in anyway, but wanted to avoid all the appeal stuff and any questions. I am sure giving him those practice questions helped raise his score. I feel bad about it, because I do think it's unfair to some kids, but I didn't want to be on the wrong side of the prep/no prep results because it was no longer an even playing field.

So now FCPS has a problem. Some kids are prepping and some are not. This test is not useful anymore. Going just by teacher and history I am sure my kid would get in, but I was worried because of all the parent lobbying and ass kissing and whatever else goes on.

I don't know the answer but the current system is definitely broken and surely they need to stop some of this madness. Prepping for my kid was fun, he loves puzzles and these things and I didn't push, but I imagine some kids do not react the same way.

[Anonymous]

Fundimentally, a gifted child does not need to prep for these tests. The gifted child does not need to do multple drill and practices to get something. The gifted child will do the work until they understand it, then move on to something else. The gift child will hate busy work. A truly gifted report card in Elementry School would be 4's in subject knowlege and 1's in does the homework: they ace the test while doing a minimal amount of homework.

More jargon. What is a gifted child? Fundamentally, what is a gifted report card? Does grade inflation affect a "gifted report card"?

[Anonymous]

Let me help you.

Is giftedness and intelligence a function of the brain?

Is the brain changing in utero, at birth and in life?

Does the rapid change of brain metabolism and neuronal interconnections to varying stimuli after birth affect giftedness and intelligence?

[Anonymous]

I geneous. Someone that gets things quickly. The steve jobs and albert einsteins. The Richard Feynmenns. They will understand the material then move on.

People that can not do this do not understand. Unfortunately, that include almost all teachers, and apparently you.

Hard work is required for success, but in the right direction. If I understand how to solve the wave equation in a one dimensional media, it is not the best use of my time to study that. I should move on to multidimensional spaces.

You can spend your time studying for the cogAT. My DD will be out looking at the rock strata (because she wants to), to understand why the blue ridge, and valley and ridge are present. (answer: the mountains here are rocks that are more resistent to erosion than the valley rocks).

[Anonymous]

I think we can all agree that prepping does increase a child's score. I was VERY against any kind of prepping until I bumped into some crazy moms sending their kids to classes and prepping months/years in advance. SO - I prepped my son with some practice questions and going over the ones he got wrong gave him confidence and he understood some of the ones he didn't quite get. He is quite bright and I figured he'd get in anyway, but wanted to avoid all the appeal stuff and any questions. I am sure giving him those practice questions helped raise his score. I feel bad about it, because I do think it's unfair to some kids, but I didn't want to be on the wrong side of the prep/no prep results because it was no longer an even playing field.

So now FCPS has a problem. Some kids are prepping and some are not. This test is not useful anymore. Going just by teacher and history I am sure my kid would get in, but I was worried because of all the parent lobbying and ass kissing and whatever else goes on.

I don't know the answer but the current system is definitely broken and surely they need to stop some of this madness. Prepping for my kid was fun, he loves puzzles and these things and I didn't push, but I imagine some kids do not react the same way.

Do not feel bad about prepping. Peyton preps so it's ok to prep. We all want to be like Peyton.

And don't fell bad now that you have become a crazy mom by joining them to prep your kid. There's still a place for you in heaven.

[Anonymous]

Here is the answer: testing is used to get in pool. After that, look at work the kid produces. If you see good GBRS, admit regardless of test scores -- even for parental referrals. If you have a lower GBRS and good test schores, dig deeper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One problem with Fairfax County not explicitly saying that prepping is considered cheating but instead saying there are no materials for prepping for the test is that there is a huge segment of fcps parents who've never been on this forum and so know nothing about why prepping is considered cheating. They are used to studying for tests being viewed as allowed. If they do a search and find the test materials, they could reasonably think that the fcps site just is outdated since it just says no materials are available. Are you going to punish those kids? FCPS has no standing to complain about prepping until it explicitly says prepping is unethical/cheating and putting that on it's website and also sending home materials to that effect starting in kindergarten. If anyone in the fcps administration is reading this thread, would you mind explaining the rationale for not doing this?

I agree that some people prepping their kids are just oblivious and doing what they think is right. Our neighbor, who I hardly know, casually told me at the bus stop that her husband was prepping their DC for the Naglieri using a sample booklet that he ordered. We talk only at the bus stop and usually about the weather. We talked about how it was getting colder then about how the school year was going, and she mentioned the prepping. She wasn't confiding any secret to me but just chatting innocently about how their DC was doing in first grade. I didn't have the heart to bring up that what their family was doing could be considered cheating, and after all there is no official statement to this effect that I could point to.

There is nothing from FCPS that says don't prepare. Just some info saying you don't need to, just like they say you don't need homework in the first couple years of school. If you want to supplement, got for it.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One problem with Fairfax County not explicitly saying that prepping is considered cheating but instead saying there are no materials for prepping for the test is that there is a huge segment of fcps parents who've never been on this forum and so know nothing about why prepping is considered cheating. They are used to studying for tests being viewed as allowed. If they do a search and find the test materials, they could reasonably think that the fcps site just is outdated since it just says no materials are available. Are you going to punish those kids? FCPS has no standing to complain about prepping until it explicitly says prepping is unethical/cheating and putting that on it's website and also sending home materials to that effect starting in kindergarten. If anyone in the fcps administration is reading this thread, would you mind explaining the rationale for not doing this?

I agree that some people prepping their kids are just oblivious and doing what they think is right. Our neighbor, who I hardly know, casually told me at the bus stop that her husband was prepping their DC for the Naglieri using a sample booklet that he ordered. We talk only at the bus stop and usually about the weather. We talked about how it was getting colder then about how the school year was going, and she mentioned the prepping. She wasn't confiding any secret to me but just chatting innocently about how their DC was doing in first grade. I didn't have the heart to bring up that what their family was doing could be considered cheating, and after all there is no official statement to this effect that I could point to.

There is nothing from FCPS that says don't prepare. Just some info saying you don't need to, just like they say you don't need homework in the first couple years of school. If you want to supplement, got for it.....

Well, you really don't need homework in the first couple of years of school. Or at least you didn't before everyone around here went crazy. I lived in China for several years and saw the intense prepping approach in action. I'm not maligning the Chinese because I understand the culture and where the need to do well academically comes from , so save the racist rants. I'm just saying what I observed, and what I observed was a bunch of kids who worked themselves to death through grade school and high school to get into certain colleges and then did..... nothing. They were burnt out. Done. At a time when young minds should be opening up to explore the intellectual universe, they were marking time till they got out. So sad to see people unable to enjoy the prize because of what it took to get there.

Is that really what we want here? has it really become so competitive that we think the only way our kids will have a happy life is if we drill them to death in academics and make childhood all about the advantages of prepping?

btw, I have three kids -- one in AAP, others GE, never prepped for CogAT, didn't enforce homework until 3rd or 4th grade. All three are doing great in school. Oldest a National Merit Scholar.

[Anonymous]

If prepping is so bad, then wouldn't we see a lot of kids who prepped (therefore faking their way into the program) struggling to keep up or just going back to GE?

That's the problem, isn't it? The purists (non-preppers) want to keep AAP "pure" with only non-prepping, naturally intuitive/intelligent kids. The preppers, say: look at the proof! -- my kid prepped and it may have given him a few points extra but s/he IS able to handle the curriculum, so prepping was, in fact, good insurance.

I understand both sides, but it seems to me that the "proof is in the puddin'" side makes the most sense. Prep or not -- if the kid can keep up, then he belongs there. The issue we should be concerned with is all the other borderline or non-preppers who didn't get in but really should be given the same opportunity. That's the tragedy to me -- the sharp cliff b/t fulltime AAP and very little (at the GE schools). I'm glad that they all have Adv. Math now, but that's not enough.

[Anonymous]

The reality is that anyone that can prep for the test can do fine in AAP. But, that is saying that hard work will allow any above average student to do fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If prepping is so bad, then wouldn't we see a lot of kids who prepped (therefore faking their way into the program) struggling to keep up or just going back to GE?

That's the problem, isn't it? The purists (non-preppers) want to keep AAP "pure" with only non-prepping, naturally intuitive/intelligent kids. The preppers, say: look at the proof! -- my kid prepped and it may have given him a few points extra but s/he IS able to handle the curriculum, so prepping was, in fact, good insurance.

I understand both sides, but it seems to me that the "proof is in the puddin'" side makes the most sense. Prep or not -- if the kid can keep up, then he belongs there. The issue we should be concerned with is all the other borderline or non-preppers who didn't get in but really should be given the same opportunity. That's the tragedy to me -- the sharp cliff b/t fulltime AAP and very little (at the GE schools). I'm glad that they all have Adv. Math now, but that's not enough.

This is my biggest concern as well. Oldest was AAP by a mile. My younger two didn't qualify for the pool, though one was close. Both had high GBRS's to the point where teachers suggested my youngest retake CogAT. He did and did about the same. I didn't push because I knew they'd both do just fine at our local school and I really do believe that kids can learn from all kids, even those who don't do as well academically. I think it's healthier and doesn't create false divisions or convince some kids that they're smarter, laying the groundwork for them to give up more easily when things get harder -- which they do for even the braniest eventually.

That said, were my kids young now, I might take a different stance, since they've broadened AAP to the point, where if you are bright and in GE, you get a substandard experience. I started to see it when my kids went to middle school and the ones not in AAP didn't have access to teaching and material they would have been able to handle (more reading in English, for example). With one now in high school and doing just as well, if not better than many of his AAP peers in honors courses, I really question what the point was of dividing these kids up and busing many to separate schools starting in 3rd grade. Yes, some highly intelligent kids don't apply themselves, but many of these AAP kids aren't any brighter than mine. Remind me again why their needs were so special that they had to go to a separate school? Or did we have to disrupt local schools and neighborhood communities simply so some parents could have an center school sticker on their car bumper?

I think the current AAP program either needs to be whittled back to those who have a genuine need that can't be met at their base school, or the curriculum should be expanded so that all who might benefit are included. My kids are smart and confident. They'll do fine. But the system has gotten worse since they were young and I really do worry for future kids and schools in FCPS if current inequities persist.