Really don't like seeing the signs on Christian churches offering Seders

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, I am the Jewish being called "asshole," "jerk," "dense" and "stupid idiot."

If you think this is a way to promote interfaith discussion, you are wrong. 8:09 and 8:12 -- are you the same poster? I think you need anger management class.

I never once said anything anti-Christian in my posts, I was simply trying to help you understand why some Jews might be offended by a Christian seder. Not sure why that is "insulting" to Christians.

Your unwillingness to even acknowledge that Jews might be be legitimately uncomfortable with this speaks volumes.

FWIW -- a brief survey of my Jewish friends ALL agreed with me. They also said I was nuts trying to convince strangers on DCUM that Jews have a right to feel this way.

No, I get why some might be uncomfortable - it's call ignorance, as in not knowing anything about it. We've tried to explain but you still insist on being upset, ignoring those explanations, and deliberately misconstruing the intent. Now you are being disingenuous on top of it. THAT is what people are taking exception to. You are basically upset over semantics - a pretty thin reason to be as offended as you are, by almost any standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, I am the Jewish being called "asshole," "jerk," "dense" and "stupid idiot."

If you think this is a way to promote interfaith discussion, you are wrong. 8:09 and 8:12 -- are you the same poster? I think you need anger management class.

I never once said anything anti-Christian in my posts, I was simply trying to help you understand why some Jews might be offended by a Christian seder. Not sure why that is "insulting" to Christians.

Your unwillingness to even acknowledge that Jews might be be legitimately uncomfortable with this speaks volumes.

FWIW -- a brief survey of my Jewish friends ALL agreed with me. They also said I was nuts trying to convince strangers on DCUM that Jews have a right to feel this way.

Also, I wouldn't put much stock in your brief survey, since I'm quite sure you in no way represented the actual intent of the Christian community accurately. Chances are you were spreading misinformation just to get the reaction you wanted. Funny how when I, as an actual Christian who gets what this is about, polled MY Jewish friends, not ONE was in any way offended. Imagine that.

[Anonymous]

+1 to PP's point about deliberately misconstruing everything said to you.

Now I have to wonder if any of my Jewish friends secretly share this grotesque hatred. Pat yourself on the back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, I am the Jewish being called "asshole," "jerk," "dense" and "stupid idiot."

If you think this is a way to promote interfaith discussion, you are wrong. 8:09 and 8:12 -- are you the same poster? I think you need anger management class.

I never once said anything anti-Christian in my posts, I was simply trying to help you understand why some Jews might be offended by a Christian seder. Not sure why that is "insulting" to Christians.

Your unwillingness to even acknowledge that Jews might be be legitimately uncomfortable with this speaks volumes.

FWIW -- a brief survey of my Jewish friends ALL agreed with me. They also said I was nuts trying to convince strangers on DCUM that Jews have a right to feel this way.

No, I get why some might be uncomfortable - it's call ignorance, as in not knowing anything about it. We've tried to explain but you still insist on being upset, ignoring those explanations, and deliberately misconstruing the intent. Now you are being disingenuous on top of it. THAT is what people are taking exception to. You are basically upset over semantics - a pretty thin reason to be as offended as you are, by almost any standard.

Nobody tried to explain. I'm the PP who asked, out of ignorance, if the christian-hosted seders were modern or more symbolic recreations of the last supper, and my throat was jumped down for asking. I didn't get an answer. I can imagine respectful and disrespectful ways to hold christian observations of passover rituals and I'm sure both take place in practice, no matter the symbolic intent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, I am the Jewish being called "asshole," "jerk," "dense" and "stupid idiot."

If you think this is a way to promote interfaith discussion, you are wrong. 8:09 and 8:12 -- are you the same poster? I think you need anger management class.

I never once said anything anti-Christian in my posts, I was simply trying to help you understand why some Jews might be offended by a Christian seder. Not sure why that is "insulting" to Christians.

Your unwillingness to even acknowledge that Jews might be be legitimately uncomfortable with this speaks volumes.

FWIW -- a brief survey of my Jewish friends ALL agreed with me. They also said I was nuts trying to convince strangers on DCUM that Jews have a right to feel this way.

No, I get why some might be uncomfortable - it's call ignorance, as in not knowing anything about it. We've tried to explain but you still insist on being upset, ignoring those explanations, and deliberately misconstruing the intent. Now you are being disingenuous on top of it. THAT is what people are taking exception to. You are basically upset over semantics - a pretty thin reason to be as offended as you are, by almost any standard.

Nobody tried to explain. I'm the PP who asked, out of ignorance, if the christian-hosted seders were modern or more symbolic recreations of the last supper, and my throat was jumped down for asking. I didn't get an answer. I can imagine respectful and disrespectful ways to hold christian observations of passover rituals and I'm sure both take place in practice, no matter the symbolic intent.

Oh, so you 're 20:52, who innocently asked whether we kill a lamb and eat it that day, and mocked the idea of us speaking Hebrew or using pronouns like "we". PP is right, you're incredibly disingenuous if you expected a thoughtful reply to such a nasty post.

[Anonymous]

PP, I'm sorry. At that point it was hard to tell who was asking an honest question and who was piling on for a gotcha. The answer is that they are generally symbolic. The interfaith ones I have attended tended to be more of a walk- through of the modern seder with some historical information peppered in. I.e. At the time Jesus was alive our best scholarship says this was done this way. And as for why it is called a "seder," it's really just a nod to the historical context of the Last Supper. No church is in any way attempting to claim they are holding an authentic seder or that Jesus has anything to do with Passover, because of course we know he doesn't. Other than that yes, he probably celebrated it with his family since he was raised as a Jew.

[Anonymous]

As a Christian (I guess, I'm more Unitarian, but what ever) I find the idea of a Seder being run at a church to be somewhat disrespectful. A Seder is a jewish tradition and unless it is an innerfaith (i.e. attended by both jewish and christian people with the purpose being to teach the christians about the seder) it seems like the church is trying to "look" multi-cultural while making another religious tradition into something of their own. I don't know - UUs are very big on learning about other traditions but we have rules about how to do it respectfully - one of those is having someone of the faith there and telling us how to do it. I can see why some jewish people would find it uncomfortable.

[Anonymous]

Orthodox Jews are just looking for things to be offended by, and this is just another in their long string of complaints about having to live near people of other faiths.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, but as a UU, you probably know as much about how Christians celebrate Holy Week as a Jew does. You, and they, are assuming a lot that just simply isn't true. But hey, if it's fun for you to keep stirring the pot, go right ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, I am the Jewish being called "asshole," "jerk," "dense" and "stupid idiot."

If you think this is a way to promote interfaith discussion, you are wrong. 8:09 and 8:12 -- are you the same poster? I think you need anger management class.

I never once said anything anti-Christian in my posts, I was simply trying to help you understand why some Jews might be offended by a Christian seder. Not sure why that is "insulting" to Christians.

Your unwillingness to even acknowledge that Jews might be be legitimately uncomfortable with this speaks volumes.

FWIW -- a brief survey of my Jewish friends ALL agreed with me. They also said I was nuts trying to convince strangers on DCUM that Jews have a right to feel this way.

No, I get why some might be uncomfortable - it's call ignorance, as in not knowing anything about it. We've tried to explain but you still insist on being upset, ignoring those explanations, and deliberately misconstruing the intent. Now you are being disingenuous on top of it. THAT is what people are taking exception to. You are basically upset over semantics - a pretty thin reason to be as offended as you are, by almost any standard.

Nobody tried to explain. I'm the PP who asked, out of ignorance, if the christian-hosted seders were modern or more symbolic recreations of the last supper, and my throat was jumped down for asking. I didn't get an answer. I can imagine respectful and disrespectful ways to hold christian observations of passover rituals and I'm sure both take place in practice, no matter the symbolic intent.

Oh, so you 're 20:52, who innocently asked whether we kill a lamb and eat it that day, and mocked the idea of us speaking Hebrew or using pronouns like "we". PP is right, you're incredibly disingenuous if you expected a thoughtful reply to such a nasty post.

Or they could be 19:31. It's hard to tell, but it could have been an honest question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a Christian (I guess, I'm more Unitarian, but what ever) I find the idea of a Seder being run at a church to be somewhat disrespectful. A Seder is a jewish tradition and unless it is an innerfaith (i.e. attended by both jewish and christian people with the purpose being to teach the christians about the seder) it seems like the church is trying to "look" multi-cultural while making another religious tradition into something of their own. I don't know - UUs are very big on learning about other traditions but we have rules about how to do it respectfully - one of those is having someone of the faith there and telling us how to do it. I can see why some jewish people would find it uncomfortable.

Plus, you just think Christian churches are out there scheming everyday about how to offend other religions? Get a life. Maybe get to know an actual Christian before making uninformed and inflammatory statements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, but as a UU, you probably know as much about how Christians celebrate Holy Week as a Jew does. You, and they, are assuming a lot that just simply isn't true. But hey, if it's fun for you to keep stirring the pot, go right ahead.

+1. A lot of uninformed people who seem to think it's fun to pile on.

[Anonymous]

Jew here. I don't care if churches have Seders as long as advertising and holding the Seders have absolutely nothing to do with trying to convert Jews to Christianity. It's hard to know if this is not a motivating factor, among others, for churches to hold Seders. If, in fact, this has nothing to do with holding and advertising a Seder, then I really don't care if a church wants to hold its own Seder. Hopefully there aren't any Jews who would be mislead into attending a church Seder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jew here. I don't care if churches have Seders as long as advertising and holding the Seders have absolutely nothing to do with trying to convert Jews to Christianity. It's hard to know if this is not a motivating factor, among others, for churches to hold Seders. If, in fact, this has nothing to do with holding and advertising a Seder, then I really don't care if a church wants to hold its own Seder. Hopefully there aren't any Jews who would be mislead into attending a church Seder.

I can unequivocally tell you that in my experience, no one is trying to convert Jews through a reenactment of the last supper. We are focused on celebrating the holiest time on our own religious calendar, not on proselytizing. Does some church somewhere try this? Probably. But they are the fringe, certainly not the norm. Plus, you guys should know that the vast majority of churches don't hold these. There are four other services to plan for Holy Week. Mine doesn't hold one.

[Anonymous]

Plus, I don't know one Jew who has ever stumbled into a Christian church during Holy Week looking for an authentic Jewish seder. You honestly think a Jew would make such a "mistake?". Really?