Lessons Learned - The College Application Process

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do people think about the ACT vs the SAT. My DC did better on a sample ACT than on the PSAT so I figured he should take the ACT. Is it equally accepted?

I think it is generally accepted now. My DC took both (twice each) and ended up submitting only ACT scores to colleges. I'd take both and see which turns out better. The prep is slightly different though so my DC did SAT prep first, then did the supplemental prep required for ACTs. Testing strategy is different too, since wrong answers aren't deducted from your score on the ACTs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Silly to try to game the system this way though.

Of course it is! Dont even think about it!

[Anonymous]

Can someone recommend an SAT prep course?

[Anonymous]

Don't forget to factor in your zip code and how it may shine some light on a family's net worth (or the many ways an admissions committees could figure out exactly how much money you have). Ivies do not give merit aid and their calculators for need based aid will exclude almost all middle class residents of large metropolitan areas. Need blind is not a binding contract. If you want to know why Suzy, a NMSF with a 4.8 weighted and perfect SAT scores with amazing ECs, was rejected by every Ivy while Sally with a 4.0 and an SAT composite around 2100 who worked on the stage crew and was a member of the French club was accepted by several, the answer is usually her family finances. Ivies want to offer acceptance to students who will actually enroll. A kid from a family with two or three college bound children whose parents make less than $800k a year and own a home with a mortgage and are putting money away for retirement would be financially irresponsible (unless they have a ton of cash lying around--like a few million at least) to pay $240k for one or their offspring's education. Heck it is pretty darn impossible to make a case for the cost of 4 years at the state school to the tune of $120k. The differential for 2 kids tuition, room and board between private and public institutions would be $240k. The average middle or upper middle class family would be crazy to spend an extra $120k for an ivy undergraduate education.. If you happen to know any students actually attending an ivy league or top ranked private small liberal arts school at the moment ask them what type of lifestyle their classmates enjoy. I can tell you for a fact that most have been brought up in very privileged households where second homes, expensive vacations, tutoring, sports trainers, etc. were part of their everyday life and that of their friends. Why on these types of boards no one brings this up is astonishing. You could all save yourselves a ton of pain and some money by just not applying to these schools. If you want to reach for something reach for the merit scholarships at your state university or at the privates that roll back tuition for super qualified students. Ivy league is still the old boy network and even if your student ends up there the odds that he or she will like being in the minority with the other not super rich kids is slim. Just cause you got in does not guarantee entrée into the circles of power and money. Buyer beware.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't forget to factor in your zip code and how it may shine some light on a family's net worth (or the many ways an admissions committees could figure out exactly how much money you have). Ivies do not give merit aid and their calculators for need based aid will exclude almost all middle class residents of large metropolitan areas. Need blind is not a binding contract. If you want to know why Suzy, a NMSF with a 4.8 weighted and perfect SAT scores with amazing ECs, was rejected by every Ivy while Sally with a 4.0 and an SAT composite around 2100 who worked on the stage crew and was a member of the French club was accepted by several, the answer is usually her family finances. Ivies want to offer acceptance to students who will actually enroll. A kid from a family with two or three college bound children whose parents make less than $800k a year and own a home with a mortgage and are putting money away for retirement would be financially irresponsible (unless they have a ton of cash lying around--like a few million at least) to pay $240k for one or their offspring's education. Heck it is pretty darn impossible to make a case for the cost of 4 years at the state school to the tune of $120k. The differential for 2 kids tuition, room and board between private and public institutions would be $240k. The average middle or upper middle class family would be crazy to spend an extra $120k for an ivy undergraduate education.. If you happen to know any students actually attending an ivy league or top ranked private small liberal arts school at the moment ask them what type of lifestyle their classmates enjoy. I can tell you for a fact that most have been brought up in very privileged households where second homes, expensive vacations, tutoring, sports trainers, etc. were part of their everyday life and that of their friends. Why on these types of boards no one brings this up is astonishing. You could all save yourselves a ton of pain and some money by just not applying to these schools. If you want to reach for something reach for the merit scholarships at your state university or at the privates that roll back tuition for super qualified students. Ivy league is still the old boy network and even if your student ends up there the odds that he or she will like being in the minority with the other not super rich kids is slim. Just cause you got in does not guarantee entrée into the circles of power and money. Buyer beware.

Thanks for bumping up this thread. There is quite a bit of good information, but you have to separate the wheat from the chaff (or in this case, chafe)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't forget to factor in your zip code and how it may shine some light on a family's net worth (or the many ways an admissions committees could figure out exactly how much money you have). Ivies do not give merit aid and their calculators for need based aid will exclude almost all middle class residents of large metropolitan areas. Need blind is not a binding contract. If you want to know why Suzy, a NMSF with a 4.8 weighted and perfect SAT scores with amazing ECs, was rejected by every Ivy while Sally with a 4.0 and an SAT composite around 2100 who worked on the stage crew and was a member of the French club was accepted by several, the answer is usually her family finances. Ivies want to offer acceptance to students who will actually enroll. A kid from a family with two or three college bound children whose parents make less than $800k a year and own a home with a mortgage and are putting money away for retirement would be financially irresponsible (unless they have a ton of cash lying around--like a few million at least) to pay $240k for one or their offspring's education. Heck it is pretty darn impossible to make a case for the cost of 4 years at the state school to the tune of $120k. The differential for 2 kids tuition, room and board between private and public institutions would be $240k. The average middle or upper middle class family would be crazy to spend an extra $120k for an ivy undergraduate education.. If you happen to know any students actually attending an ivy league or top ranked private small liberal arts school at the moment ask them what type of lifestyle their classmates enjoy. I can tell you for a fact that most have been brought up in very privileged households where second homes, expensive vacations, tutoring, sports trainers, etc. were part of their everyday life and that of their friends. Why on these types of boards no one brings this up is astonishing. You could all save yourselves a ton of pain and some money by just not applying to these schools. If you want to reach for something reach for the merit scholarships at your state university or at the privates that roll back tuition for super qualified students. Ivy league is still the old boy network and even if your student ends up there the odds that he or she will like being in the minority with the other not super rich kids is slim. Just cause you got in does not guarantee entrée into the circles of power and money. Buyer beware.

Thanks for bumping up this thread. There is quite a bit of good information, but you have to separate the wheat from the chaff (or in this case, chafe)

Ah, someone has it all figured out. Why did no one else see this? Oh, maybe because this is not how it works after all. Sorry, but the kids I know who are at Ivies now just don't have "amazing ECs" - many people have those; they have something really unique. Now, it could be family ties or celebrity, but most kids have more than that. And if the Ivies are only picking those with the most money and the ability to pay, they sure missed the most "qualified" at DC's school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't forget to factor in your zip code and how it may shine some light on a family's net worth (or the many ways an admissions committees could figure out exactly how much money you have). Ivies do not give merit aid and their calculators for need based aid will exclude almost all middle class residents of large metropolitan areas. Need blind is not a binding contract. If you want to know why Suzy, a NMSF with a 4.8 weighted and perfect SAT scores with amazing ECs, was rejected by every Ivy while Sally with a 4.0 and an SAT composite around 2100 who worked on the stage crew and was a member of the French club was accepted by several, the answer is usually her family finances. Ivies want to offer acceptance to students who will actually enroll. A kid from a family with two or three college bound children whose parents make less than $800k a year and own a home with a mortgage and are putting money away for retirement would be financially irresponsible (unless they have a ton of cash lying around--like a few million at least) to pay $240k for one or their offspring's education. Heck it is pretty darn impossible to make a case for the cost of 4 years at the state school to the tune of $120k. The differential for 2 kids tuition, room and board between private and public institutions would be $240k. The average middle or upper middle class family would be crazy to spend an extra $120k for an ivy undergraduate education.. If you happen to know any students actually attending an ivy league or top ranked private small liberal arts school at the moment ask them what type of lifestyle their classmates enjoy. I can tell you for a fact that most have been brought up in very privileged households where second homes, expensive vacations, tutoring, sports trainers, etc. were part of their everyday life and that of their friends. Why on these types of boards no one brings this up is astonishing. You could all save yourselves a ton of pain and some money by just not applying to these schools. If you want to reach for something reach for the merit scholarships at your state university or at the privates that roll back tuition for super qualified students. Ivy league is still the old boy network and even if your student ends up there the odds that he or she will like being in the minority with the other not super rich kids is slim. Just cause you got in does not guarantee entrée into the circles of power and money. Buyer beware.

When did you graduate from college? 1970? This really isn't the way it is now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people might consider this unethical, but the easiest way to get at least a 100 point SAT advantage is to specify that you are black when you fill out the SAT demographic questions. In other words, a 500 for a black student is equivalent to at least a 600 for a white student.

We're white, but my daughter marked black for race. (There's no genetic test for race, by the way.) Her total SAT was 1710 and her high school GPA is 2.93. She got into every highly competitive school to which she applied (she didn't apply to any Ivys, though) and she is getting merit scholarship offers out the kazoo.

This is just a big lie.

How does the common app ask about race/ ethnic origin? Are there boxes to check? Or a blank space? If there are categories what are they? I'm especially interested if one can identify as "African" even if they couldn't honestly say "black" - Egyptian, for example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do people think about the ACT vs the SAT. My DC did better on a sample ACT than on the PSAT so I figured he should take the ACT. Is it equally accepted?

The tests are completely interchangeable as far as schools are concerned. The distinction is mainly regional but the ACT is becoming more popular around these parts and I imagine will catch on more as the SAT is redone over the next few years. Here's how it was explained to me by our admissions counselor. The ACT is more of a curriculum test (some states give it to all their high school seniors) and kids who are very good students tend to do consistently well on it (unlike the SAT which is hit or miss depending on the caliber of your test taking skills and/or your willingness to tolerate long prep sessions). It has more grammar, less vocabulary, less tedious reading, more advanced but less tricky math (there's trig), and a science section that is sort of a science version of reading comprehension. I've heard that girls do a little better on the ACT and boys do a little better on the SAT. The key with the ACT is timing -- you have to move very quickly through the sections to complete all the questions, but practice tests help you get the hang of it.

Bottom line is, go with the test that best suits your kid. All of ours preferred the ACT, but I wouldn't have cared either way -- anything to reduce junior year anxiety is a fine in my book.

[Anonymous]

I'm skeptical about what 18:28 writes except that merit scholarships are much more common than they were back in my day. Its the schools just below the most competitive who seem to offer them, more than you would think. A lot of these schools are terrific schools but they would like to poach some students who would otherwise go to ivies. Its definitely something to look into.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm skeptical about what 18:28 writes except that merit scholarships are much more common than they were back in my day. Its the schools just below the most competitive who seem to offer them, more than you would think. A lot of these schools are terrific schools but they would like to poach some students who would otherwise go to ivies. Its definitely something to look into.

I have heard this to be the case many times

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm skeptical about what 18:28 writes except that merit scholarships are much more common than they were back in my day. Its the schools just below the most competitive who seem to offer them, more than you would think. A lot of these schools are terrific schools but they would like to poach some students who would otherwise go to ivies. Its definitely something to look into.

I have heard this to be the case many times

DC just started college and we saw these generous merit aid offers from the colleges below highly selective many times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people might consider this unethical, but the easiest way to get at least a 100 point SAT advantage is to specify that you are black when you fill out the SAT demographic questions. In other words, a 500 for a black student is equivalent to at least a 600 for a white student.

We're white, but my daughter marked black for race. (There's no genetic test for race, by the way.) Her total SAT was 1710 and her high school GPA is 2.93. She got into every highly competitive school to which she applied (she didn't apply to any Ivys, though) and she is getting merit scholarship offers out the kazoo.

This is just a big lie.

How does the common app ask about race/ ethnic origin? Are there boxes to check? Or a blank space? If there are categories what are they? I'm especially interested if one can identify as "African" even if they couldn't honestly say "black" - Egyptian, for example.

If you have ancestors from the continent of Africa, you are African American

[Anonymous]

Friend has DD that's 1/8 at best, but probably 1/16 AA, but looks totally white. Supposedly good grades and scores, but I don't know this info. Marked African American on apps and got into UVa and Chicago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people might consider this unethical, but the easiest way to get at least a 100 point SAT advantage is to specify that you are black when you fill out the SAT demographic questions. In other words, a 500 for a black student is equivalent to at least a 600 for a white student.

We're white, but my daughter marked black for race. (There's no genetic test for race, by the way.) Her total SAT was 1710 and her high school GPA is 2.93. She got into every highly competitive school to which she applied (she didn't apply to any Ivys, though) and she is getting merit scholarship offers out the kazoo.

This is just a big lie.

How does the common app ask about race/ ethnic origin? Are there boxes to check? Or a blank space? If there are categories what are they? I'm especially interested if one can identify as "African" even if they couldn't honestly say "black" - Egyptian, for example.

There are boxes to check but it is optional. However, saying you are black when you are white would negate the whole application because you have to sign that everything you have written in the application is true.

every college could pull their acceptance when they found out the lie.