Lessons Learned - The College Application Process

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've heard that you need at least one AA (or Hispanic) grandparent (great-grandparent isn't enough) to mark AA (Hispanic) on the app. I don't know whose rule this is, but it's the word on the street among DD's senior friends. I would think that if you mark that you're a minority on the app but the interviewer sees you're not visibly diverse, this would count against you, not for you.

Ok, that's nuts. My daughters are half Hispanic. One looks it. The other is pale, red- head and blue eyes. You telling me one "counts" as a minority and the oer doesn't? They have the same exact background and set of parents.

That's not what I meant to say. And again, I didn't make this up, I'm just reporting what's being said at a competitive area high school. So take it for what it's worth, which may not be much.

Anyway, the point concerned marking yourself as minority on the application. This wasn't dependent on whether you look diverse. It was if you have one grandparent, so that you have at least some exposure to the race/ethnicity/culture you're saying you belong to. I guess the idea is that if you have only one great-grandparent, then they were probably long dead before the kid was old enough to ask questions about the old country. Obviously this begs lots of questions about who is diverse and I'm sort of skeptical myself. But that's what they say at my kid's high school....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Excuse me, but what possible historical basis is there for giving racial preference to Hispanics?

http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Empire-History-Latinos-America/dp/0143119281

It's really hard to say who was treated "worse" historically.

]

so if you cannot make a definitive judgement on this, then why are Hispanics getting major concessions compared to Chinese?

Underrepresented versus not underrepresented.

Yeah, but if representation is based on academic ability, then underrepresented boils down to "not as academically gifted" - which is not the message you want to send.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Excuse me, but what possible historical basis is there for giving racial preference to Hispanics?

http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Empire-History-Latinos-America/dp/0143119281

It's really hard to say who was treated "worse" historically.

]

so if you cannot make a definitive judgement on this, then why are Hispanics getting major concessions compared to Chinese?

Underrepresented versus not underrepresented.

Yeah, but if representation is based on academic ability, then underrepresented boils down to "not as academically gifted" - which is not the message you want to send.

Right, but we all know representation is based on a lot more than academic ability. The aim is to balance out the already unlevel playing field. My DH was put in remedial reading groups as a kid, based on nothing more than skin tone and last name. As an adult today, still occasionally experiences spme anti-Hispanic bias. (No one ever thinks he's the highest ranking person in the room, until he's been there a while and they get a stark surprise.). It's all real, much less than it used to be, but real. I grew up middle class and white, and no question that road is easier.
I do, however, think SES at least as big of an issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Excuse me, but what possible historical basis is there for giving racial preference to Hispanics?

http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Empire-History-Latinos-America/dp/0143119281

It's really hard to say who was treated "worse" historically.

]

so if you cannot make a definitive judgement on this, then why are Hispanics getting major concessions compared to Chinese?

Underrepresented versus not underrepresented.

Yeah, but if representation is based on academic ability, then underrepresented boils down to "not as academically gifted" - which is not the message you want to send.

Right, but we all know representation is based on a lot more than academic ability. The aim is to balance out the already unlevel playing field. My DH was put in remedial reading groups as a kid, based on nothing more than skin tone and last name. As an adult today, still occasionally experiences spme anti-Hispanic bias. (No one ever thinks he's the highest ranking person in the room, until he's been there a while and they get a stark surprise.). It's all real, much less than it used to be, but real. I grew up middle class and white, and no question that road is easier.
I do, however, think SES at least as big of an issue.

What is the over representation of Chinese and Korean students based on if not academic ability?

[Anonymous]

There are clearly differences in performance on the tests used to measure academic achievement. Whether those differences prove that one group is on the whole more bright than another group is debatable, but what is not debatable is the some groups will be underrepresented if they are not given some boost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Excuse me, but what possible historical basis is there for giving racial preference to Hispanics?

http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Empire-History-Latinos-America/dp/0143119281

It's really hard to say who was treated "worse" historically.

]

so if you cannot make a definitive judgement on this, then why are Hispanics getting major concessions compared to Chinese?

Underrepresented versus not underrepresented.

Yeah, but if representation is based on academic ability, then underrepresented boils down to "not as academically gifted" - which is not the message you want to send.

Right, but we all know representation is based on a lot more than academic ability. The aim is to balance out the already unlevel playing
field. My DH was put in remedial reading groups as a kid, based on nothing more than skin tone and last name. As an adult today, still
occasionally experiences spme anti-Hispanic bias. (No one ever thinks he's the highest ranking person in the room, until he's been there
a while and they get a stark surprise.). It's all real, much less than it used to be, but real. I grew up middle class and white, and no
question that road is easier.

I do, however, think SES at least as big of an issue.

What is the over representation of Chinese and Korean students based on if not academic ability?

So your theory is that Chineseand Korean students just have inherently more academic ability? That's racist.
Alternatively, we could conclude that they come from cultures and societies that value education and prepare them well. Some kids don't have that, based on culture. (cultures where, for example, grandparents were not allowed to go to school.). Thus their underrepresentation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Excuse me, but what possible historical basis is there for giving racial preference to Hispanics?

http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Empire-History-Latinos-America/dp/0143119281

It's really hard to say who was treated "worse" historically.

]

so if you cannot make a definitive judgement on this, then why are Hispanics getting major concessions compared to Chinese?

Underrepresented versus not underrepresented.

Yeah, but if representation is based on academic ability, then underrepresented boils down to "not as academically gifted" - which is not the message you want to send.

Right, but we all know representation is based on a lot more than academic ability. The aim is to balance out the already unlevel playing
field. My DH was put in remedial reading groups as a kid, based on nothing more than skin tone and last name. As an adult today, still
occasionally experiences spme anti-Hispanic bias. (No one ever thinks he's the highest ranking person in the room, until he's been there
a while and they get a stark surprise.). It's all real, much less than it used to be, but real. I grew up middle class and white, and no
question that road is easier.

I do, however, think SES at least as big of an issue.

What is the over representation of Chinese and Korean students based on if not academic ability?

So your theory is that Chineseand Korean students just have inherently more academic ability? That's racist.
Alternatively, we could conclude that they come from cultures and societies that value education and prepare them well. Some kids don't have that, based on culture. (cultures where, for example, grandparents were not allowed to go to school.). Thus their underrepresentation.

You really don't understand the history of Chinese and Korean immigrants do you?

Studies of IQ and race consistently show that Asians have a higher IQ. But the race/IQ link may be mistaken - and based on the strong link of IQ and Malnutrition.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041117005027.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2628311

http://www.nature.com/pr/journal/v5/n11/abs/pr1971371a.html

Children who are starved, especially in the earliest years of life, perform very poorly on IQ tests compared to peers who received adequate nutrition.


Also, whether higher IQ means greater academic abili9ty is debatable:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/05/why-people-keep-misunderstanding-the-connection-between-race-and-iq/275876/

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/jason-richwine-race-iq-genetics-95765.html

[Anonymous]

The notion that differences in measured IQ among various ethic groups/races is linked to malnutrition (not genetics) finds support in the dramatic changes in average group IQ of groups that have moved from poverty to middle class or higher.

Don't let appearances fool you, as noted in one of the linked article, obesity can be a form of malnutrition. The best way to help unrepresented groups may be to teach them to embrace a healthy lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've heard that you need at least one AA (or Hispanic) grandparent (great-grandparent isn't enough) to mark AA (Hispanic) on the app. I don't know whose rule this is, but it's the word on the street among DD's senior friends. I would think that if you mark that you're a minority on the app but the interviewer sees you're not visibly diverse, this would count against you, not for you.

Ok, that's nuts. My daughters are half Hispanic. One looks it. The other is pale, red- head and blue eyes. You telling me one "counts" as a minority and the oer doesn't? They have the same exact background and set of parents.

I know a blond, blue-eyed girl who had to submit her grandmother's birth certificate to prove the grandmother was born in a Hispanic country.

Isn't Spain an Hispanic country?

This is a all a very good reason why race/ethnicity based affirmative action makes no sense anymore and should be ended.

[Anonymous]

There are no universally accepted definitions of race, schools accept your self identification. Whether you like affirmative action or not, you'd be foolish not to identify as an underrepresented minority if at all possible.

[Anonymous]

Once again a thread becomes all about race....

[Anonymous]

Arrgh

"Isn't Spain an Hispanic country? "

Spain is the origin of Hispanic-meaning of Spanish decent. Most people are speaking of Latinos when they use the term Hispanic. (from Central and South American Spanish speaking countries).

My husband is Spanish and both our kids are blond hair(Rubio) blue eyed. They look Swedish. It doesn't make sense that they would qualified as minority disadvantaged, but we can't afford not to take advantage of any opportunity we can. We don't mke the rules, we just play the game.

My husband gets pretty angry at the thought that his kids are less "Hispanic" because they don't fit a dark skinned profile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Arrgh

"Isn't Spain an Hispanic country? "

Spain is the origin of Hispanic-meaning of Spanish decent. Most people are speaking of Latinos when they use the term Hispanic. (from Central and South American Spanish speaking countries).

My husband is Spanish and both our kids are blond hair(Rubio) blue eyed. They look Swedish. It doesn't make sense that they would qualified as minority disadvantaged, but we can't afford not to take advantage of any opportunity we can. We don't mke the rules, we just play the game.

My husband gets pretty angry at the thought that his kids are less "Hispanic" because they don't fit a dark skinned profile.

Wow. Read that back. You're angry why? You detest a distinction that you'll gladly use when it serves your purpose? Ok, got it. But I'd cut back on the vitriol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Arrgh

"Isn't Spain an Hispanic country? "

Spain is the origin of Hispanic-meaning of Spanish decent. Most people are speaking of Latinos when they use the term Hispanic. (from Central and South American Spanish speaking countries).

My husband is Spanish and both our kids are blond hair(Rubio) blue eyed. They look Swedish. It doesn't make sense that they would qualified as minority disadvantaged, but we can't afford not to take advantage of any opportunity we can. We don't mke the rules, we just play the game.

My husband gets pretty angry at the thought that his kids are less "Hispanic" because they don't fit a dark skinned profile.

Wow. Read that back. You're angry why? You detest a distinction that you'll gladly use when it serves your purpose? Ok, got it. But I'd cut back on the vitriol.

According to all relevant definitions (OMB, US Census), people of Spanish or Portuguese European descent are included in the Hispanic or Latino group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. I don't know how you best develop a balance between preparing appropriately for college and losing perspective but I think some of y'all have slid over on the losing perspective side.

To each his/her own. We will be paying a quarter of a million dollars for college. That's a huge investment. And the last really big parental obligation to the future of my child. It's worth the effort.

It used to be that at then end of high school, graduates were seen as young adults who set out to be more independent and to start to live their own life. Now we have parents as early as MS scripting their child's lives all the way through college. Soon it will be that parents script and financially support kids till the end of their twenties - there will be no end to adolescence! At some point you have to back off and start letting your children grow-up and make decisions and live their own lives.

Exactly! As an employer, I've had parents accompany their DC to intern fairs! Unbelievable!