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Midwife charged in DC? Karen Carr, CPM...
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Anonymous
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I had a home birth in DC with a CNM. I did not write the 20:09 post but it expresses my feelings very well.
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Anonymous
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Horrible tragedy.
Question for those knowledgeable about home birth, is any type of informed consent signed by the expectant mom? If so it could be a protection for the midwife--proof that she discussed the possible risks with the mom, and protection for the mom in that she would be given information about the potential risks inherent in her specific situation. |
Anonymous
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I think those that are pro-homebirth are the ones with the positive experience. I had a footling breech baby and the doctor's told me it was a c-section, no other option and I accepted that. For those that have told me I should have done things to flip dc, I have to disagree. After researching it after dc's birth it scared the crap out of me since dc'scord was around her neck several times and with footling they are at risk of strangulation. I researched breech prior to the c-section but never footling-they are now finding the baby is that way for a reason and although I didn't go through a vaginal birth, I have a healthy child because of my c-section. And not a day goes by that I don't remember how lucky I am to have dc because of this.
Here is a couple's blog that is now anti-homebirth because of a simple test for strep that cost them their babies life. Sometimes going the modern medicine way isn't a bad thing and pro-homebirth people shouldn't berate those that choose hospital births. I should note I found this very disturbing. http://blog.dreamhost.com/2011/03/09/wren-jones/ |
Anonymous
Not the PP, and I don't want to presume anything specific to Ms Carr, and I don't want to bash home birth. Yes, people should have a right to choose how they want to deliver. However, 'scaring people away'? People need to be aware of what they are choosing. The way I see it, the problem is that noone is willing to accept any risks for the choices they make, and when there is a bad outcome, it has to be someone's fault (bad outcomes are generally unacceptable in our society-just observing, I'm not saying that's good or bad). In other words, I don't know who, in this particular case, knew that this was a breech birth (the midwife you'd think, the parents?), and we don't know how/if this was explained properly to the parents, as in; these are the chances the baby may die, if we are attempting a home birth here, and there's a problem. "Babies die in hospitals, too" is a very poor comparison. The issue of licensure is totally separate in my eyes. Why should the profession of midwifery be exempted in the United States? Do you want licensure of professionals or not? The argument that midwifery is 'ancient' and therefore should not require it, is just not cutting it. So are 100 other professions, including that of the physician. Yes, licensure is filling out forms, paying fees and turning in documents, but that's what it is. |
Anonymous
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Regarding the post above about a baby's life lost to strep after a home birth--I had a home birth but was tested for group B strep by my midwife and my CNM could have given me IV antibiotics at home to prevent transmission of strep to the baby if I was positive, just like I was in the hospital. That baby's death was a tragedy but I disagree that home birth is what caused it.
It does show that **not all home births or home birth midwives are the same.** Parents really need to educate themselves. Personally, I am a big fan of legality and licensure and training....to make sure that mothers are offered things like group B strep testing. I wanted to birth my low-risk baby at home but at the first sign of trouble, right to the hospital we would go. But I feel like the home birth community is accepting of a lot of things that make me nervous. I remember at a Bradley class, a trainer handed out a list of midwives who do home births and their supposed areas of expertise, waterbirth, etc., and there was a woman on there who did not have CNM or CPM next to her name who specialized in breech, according to this handout. And I said to my husband, "who goes to a lay midwife to deliver their breech baby at home?!" I am sorry. Maybe this lay midwife is highly skilled. But how could a prospective client know that? So I do believe there is a place for licensure. And I think some kinds of births should simply not be attempted at home. Those who do are risking not only their child but also the right of other women to have a home birth. |
Anonymous
As a former NICU nurse, reading that link was devastating. I watched one of the videos, "Wren passing judgment". His rate of breathing appears to be about 70 breaths per minute (normal would be 60 or less) and he is exhibiting nasal flaring...an early indicator of respiratory distress in infants. If only, if only....even if the parents had just been educated about early signs of respiratory distress, they could have sought help before he arrested. He still may not have survived, but it would have given him a chance..What a precious baby he was... |
Anonymous
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just started seeing links to this page on Facebook ... legal defense fund for Karen Carr...
http://www.inservicetowomen.org/ |
Anonymous
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http://www.inservicetowomen.org/ The website for Carr.
Their summary of the investigation above the donation button seems to leave out a lot of details in the case. 
I'm sorry. I had my daughter at home, but I just cannot get behind this. |
Anonymous
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I read that story too of the baby who died at home from GBS. I also had a home birth, also was GBS positive, and received antibiotics at home to prevent transmission. So I agree that home birth does not necessarily equal non-treatment for GBS. However in a hospital setting there would be no way for a positive or nonexistent GBS test to be ignored, whereas at home it can be, so in that sense home birth is maybe partially responsible. On one hand parents need to do their homework to select a midwife who they trust, but I think that's easier said than done. Talking to a few references or having a general sense of the midwife's reputation really isn't enough , but what else can a family do to make sure the midwife is qualified? And even if she's attended 200 births that have gone off without a hitch, many complications are one in a thousand, so she might not have encountered them yet. It's hard for expectant families to know all the questions to ask. And if they trust someone, and that someone tells them that testing for GBS isn't necessary, they might just believe it. There's a lot of stuff on the internet that is against GBS testing and treatment. I myself considered doing Hibiclens or one of the alternate protocols, because I had gotten thrush after my first baby, probably as a result of antibiotics for GBS, and thrush was awful. But I read a ton of stuff and concluded that antibiotics really were the most effective way to reduce GBS transmission, and there wasn't good evidence for the other methods. And GBS was clearly very serious so I didn't want to mess with it.
I'm not even sure if CPMs could provide antibiotics for GBS, even if the mom was tested, was positive, and wanted antibiotics. Does anyone know? This was definitely a tragedy that could have been avoided and that the midwife seems responsible for. Where does the midwife's responsibility end and the parents' responsibility begin? I'm not sure... |
Anonymous
| had my daughter at home too, and also feel unable to support this cause without knowing more details. |
Anonymous
Yes, licensed midwives in VA must go over informed consent with their patients and you must sign it. As for the PP about the GBS - going homebirth doesn't necessarily mean you have to shun all prenatal medical tests. I'm the PP who did an HBAC. I did my 20 week ultrasound, GBS test, and GD test. If I had tested positive for GBS I would have tried to treat it and test again. If I was still positive I would have risked out and transferred to an OB. If I'd been diagnosed with GD I would have also been required to transfer to an OB. Same if the baby had been breech. That was a part of the informed consent and my midwife's prenatal plan. I can't say enough good things about my midwife - Lori Orme if anyone is looking for one. |
Anonymous
In VA, they cannot because they cannot administer medicine. It's actually one of my complaints about how they hinder midwives here. They cannot administer Vitamin K if there was a lot of bruising at birth and they cannot bring oxygen in case baby needs it after birth. If we're going to allow CPMs to practice here at least give them the tools to practice as safely as possible. During the last couple of pushes with my DD she turned and got the cord around her neck. She was stunned when she came out - not breathing, but had a HB. My midwife and her assistant were fantastic and very quick to act. They started breaths on her and brought her around. But they wanted to her to have some oxygen for 20-30 minutes so we had to call an ambulance for that. If VA would allow midwives to bring along things like oxygen with them we could have saved the local paramedics alot of time. |
Anonymous
I noticed this site the other day when I was doing some Googling on Karen, but it had not been fully set up yet. I find no other references to In Service to Women, so I assume it's a new organization set up just for her defense fund? |
Anonymous
| Thank you PP for the info on CPMs and medication. I'm very glad your baby was okay. I would be very nervous hiring a midwife who couldn't provide me or my baby with medications. Did this worry you at all? I think I've seen online that there is some effort to get that changed in VA so that midwives could carry medication? Does anyone know about that? I would feel much more comfortable with CPMs practicing if they could carry medication -- it seems kind of crazy that they could even be licensed at all without the capacity to use medication. It really seems to be setting things up for a tragic situation. |
Anonymous
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I had a homebirth and am finding this whole thing to be extremely upsetting. I think it speaks greatly to the system and process and thinking about birth being absolutely broken. I had a homebirth mostly because I wanted to avoid the stories that I kept hearing over and over and over - pressure to induce at due date, followed by induction, followed by failure to progress, followed by c-section. This is what I hear from my friends again and again.
My himebirth was a few years ago now and I'm just recently starting to question whether homebirth is a good option, but honestly until we fix the process in hospitals, it will be attractive. I agree that home birth did not cause the death of the baby at that link - I too was offered GbS testin and antibiotics. But honestly, they were offered kind of casually. Like I could do it or not, it was up to me. Same with glucose testing, ultrasounds, anything like that. With my himebirth midwife, I had to ASK for this stuff and make sure that I got it. Her attitude was that these were very optional and unnecessary. I can see just not doing them if you just trust what the midwife is saying and don't look into it on your own. |