Is GPA the most important?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

LOL. No matter how many people tell you that academic performance is not a ranked system at Ivies, you refuse to believe them. Claim "racism" and move on. ACADEMICS IS A QUALIFIER it is not the determining factor. Listen to the Yale podcast. Listen to the Darmouth Podcast. Listen to the Columbia AO interview. They all say the same thing. Academics and test scores demonstrate you can do the work, after you are qualified you need to have a lot more. The qualifier is ROUGHLY an SAT of 1450 and a GPA (with max rigor) of 3.7ish. Yale, Dartmouth and Columbia all said the same thing, practically verbatim. And no, it isn't about keeping Asians out, or Italians, or Russians. It is about having kids who align with institutional priorities and enhance the community and the long-term standing of the institution.

So, having 100% math robot test takers isn't something they want. They want a certain number of actors/musicians, supreme court litigators, federal judges, olympic gold medalists, NHL superstars, senators, governors, hedge fund managers, high school english teachers, social workers, world bank heads, UN delegates, presidential candidates, novelists, artists, engineers, and tech people. It's just sad to see people tell you how the world is, and you go back to talking about stats stats stats, ranking rankings rankings, discrimination discrimination discrimination, SAT SAT SAT.

It is completely bonkers to me. These parents are ignorant with a chip on their shoulder. Yale isn't the India Institute of Technology. It's not a statistics focused institution, it never has been, and it will never be. If you don't like it, then don't apply there or the other ivies.

I think you’re replying to the wrong post.

The post was long but an appropriate post to the people on this thread insisting that a particular GPA and a particular SAT should gain you admission to a particular school. That's not how it works, which is the gist of this long post.

Understandable that you feel the Ivies should take a kid with low SAT score, as reading comprehension is not your strength. While a very high GPA or SAT score may not get you into a top college, an overall grade away from the top 20-30% at TJ means it’s an uphill battle for getting into an elite college. Also, your 3.7/1450 cutoff is plain wrong. A 3.7 uw GPA might be good at an elite private, but it’s only average in many high schools. A former AO from Yale explicitly said his cutoff for a low SAT is 1520, and he had older colleagues who still gave bonus points to a perfect 1600 score!

Do you have any cite to this?

[Anonymous]

Yes they take your major preferences into account.

Watch AO webinars where they discuss this as naseum and why they don’t want to tell the public which majors they actually need more of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

I’d be curious to know where they applied early to?

This is the kind of kid that should’ve ED1/ED2 to WashU or Emory or Tufts.

ED1/2 to WashU would have been a smart strategy. I’m surprised that the parents were so surprised by the Ivy rejections! I think their kid got into a couple of schools in the Emory/Tufts range.

I would have ED1 Dartmouth or Cornell or Vanderbilt.
ED2 WashU or Rice.

What was the major?
Family probably thought the 1600 carried more weight than it did.

All those schools get a billion apps from students with perfect grades and test scores from everywhere in the US and much of the world. Once you hit a baseline for stats, the rest of the app is what matters - ECs, leadership, LOCs, community service, awards, etc. And that baseline is significantly lower than 4.4 and 1600. It's the what else you got part that matters at this level.

also people don't apply for "majors" at ivies. people are clueless

You definitely apply to a specific college/major at Cornell and Penn.

And all the top schools, your application is read with the major(s) or academic interests listed…. it’s how they can also tell how competitive you are.

no. you apply to a specific school at penn. not a major. it's right on the website. and it's not how they tell if you are "competitive". it's how they attempt to predict what the makeup of the class is so they have balance. you don't get rank ordered within the "math" applicants at CAS

Np.
If you list math and have no math extracurriculars or awards, how much does that hurt you with this predictive balancing?

that's different. that speaks more towards an applicant who isn't passionate about their academic pursuit, or is not genuine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Likely high GPA was a 4.6+ and your kid it at a 4.4 ECs are incredibly important, also.

I have been posting on the TJ forum for months about how and why TJ should be carefully considered bc likely college options will not be what many are hoping.

The above poster (who says NBD your kid will be well prepared) is who I think rebuts each of my posts. It’s absurd. Families which value education, value all education…meaning making decisions that are taking a long term approach.

My guess is the ECs were not stellar, the GPA pushed kid out of the top at tj and tj’s top applicants jumped over your kid when compared to each other.

I am sorry. Tough pill to swallow.

Just like you are not the only poster that warns of compromising college results, there are multiple poster that points out the valuable training that TJ provides.
This is always a hot topic this time of year because people are trying to figure out what to do about their TJ offer.
If college isn't your terminal degree, the training might be more important.

Reasonable minds can differ.

I have always told parents that if their kid is consistently top 1% on standardized tests and has a good work ethic, they should probably encourage their kids to go
If their kid is top 5%, they have to really want to go and have "passion" and a lot of work ethic.
If their kid is not top 5% my kid would have to beg me to go.
If not top 10% then not even if they begged.

Some kids have to go, others are content to know that they got accepted and could have gone.
You know your child better than they know themselves. Be a parent. Guide your children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Grade inflation makes GPAs almost worthless.

Not at TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes they take your major preferences into account.

Watch AO webinars where they discuss this as naseum and why they don’t want to tell the public which majors they actually need more of.

that's different. that's not applying to a major. my point is that they don't have different standards for math majors and english majors at yale. they don't say "take the math majors and rank them and choose the ones with the best math scores on their SATs". they may say "we need more math centric kids. so out of the kids that we have qualified and think would be a good community fit try and weight the remaining candidates we accept towards math."

it's a subtle distinction, but it is a distinction.

this can change from year to year as well. if a bunch of last years potential math kids wound up studying art history they may heavily weight the entire cohort heavily to math.

but, they do not have different standarss for math kids vs. english kids.

again, it's subtle but people just misunderstand the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are TJ and Richard Montgomery comparable? RM’s exmissions are incredible, whereas I hear lots of complaints from TJ parents.

Following up:

Richard Montgomery: https://www.instagram.com/rmcommits26?igsh=MTl2OHV2NmZ0Z211Ng==

TJ: https://www.instagram.com/tj2026destinations?igsh=ZzZtNzBpeXRvc3po

Only 80ish students have posted at TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

Is your child an overrepresented minority applying for a STEM major and a non-legacy? Then that could be it. My kid has all of the same markers and had a lot of waitlists as well. Colleges are looking to assemble a diverse class with a certain percentage of FGLI, certain percentage of international students, diversity of every kind and kids who are going to fill out their humanities majors, and kids from all 50 states, etc. If your kid does not "fill a need," their odds of getting into a T20 are astonishingly low and they needed to be lucky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

LOL. No matter how many people tell you that academic performance is not a ranked system at Ivies, you refuse to believe them. Claim "racism" and move on. ACADEMICS IS A QUALIFIER it is not the determining factor. Listen to the Yale podcast. Listen to the Darmouth Podcast. Listen to the Columbia AO interview. They all say the same thing. Academics and test scores demonstrate you can do the work, after you are qualified you need to have a lot more. The qualifier is ROUGHLY an SAT of 1450 and a GPA (with max rigor) of 3.7ish. Yale, Dartmouth and Columbia all said the same thing, practically verbatim. And no, it isn't about keeping Asians out, or Italians, or Russians. It is about having kids who align with institutional priorities and enhance the community and the long-term standing of the institution.

So, having 100% math robot test takers isn't something they want. They want a certain number of actors/musicians, supreme court litigators, federal judges, olympic gold medalists, NHL superstars, senators, governors, hedge fund managers, high school english teachers, social workers, world bank heads, UN delegates, presidential candidates, novelists, artists, engineers, and tech people. It's just sad to see people tell you how the world is, and you go back to talking about stats stats stats, ranking rankings rankings, discrimination discrimination discrimination, SAT SAT SAT.

It is completely bonkers to me. These parents are ignorant with a chip on their shoulder. Yale isn't the India Institute of Technology. It's not a statistics focused institution, it never has been, and it will never be. If you don't like it, then don't apply there or the other ivies.

I think you’re replying to the wrong post.

The post was long but an appropriate post to the people on this thread insisting that a particular GPA and a particular SAT should gain you admission to a particular school. That's not how it works, which is the gist of this long post.

While I understand the point you’re trying to make, the tone comes across as a bit harsh. For some, those may be the only things they have—or the beliefs that help them keep going.

[Anonymous]

A kid smart enough for TJ would excel in the normal AP curriculum at their zoned school and most likely have better outcomes for college. This was clear to us when our child was in middle school and part of why we did not even pursue TJ. We are also zoned for a school with 40% FARMS which makes it easier to be top 5%. I don’t make the rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

LOL. No matter how many people tell you that academic performance is not a ranked system at Ivies, you refuse to believe them. Claim "racism" and move on. ACADEMICS IS A QUALIFIER it is not the determining factor. Listen to the Yale podcast. Listen to the Darmouth Podcast. Listen to the Columbia AO interview. They all say the same thing. Academics and test scores demonstrate you can do the work, after you are qualified you need to have a lot more. The qualifier is ROUGHLY an SAT of 1450 and a GPA (with max rigor) of 3.7ish. Yale, Dartmouth and Columbia all said the same thing, practically verbatim. And no, it isn't about keeping Asians out, or Italians, or Russians. It is about having kids who align with institutional priorities and enhance the community and the long-term standing of the institution.

So, having 100% math robot test takers isn't something they want. They want a certain number of actors/musicians, supreme court litigators, federal judges, olympic gold medalists, NHL superstars, senators, governors, hedge fund managers, high school english teachers, social workers, world bank heads, UN delegates, presidential candidates, novelists, artists, engineers, and tech people. It's just sad to see people tell you how the world is, and you go back to talking about stats stats stats, ranking rankings rankings, discrimination discrimination discrimination, SAT SAT SAT.

It is completely bonkers to me. These parents are ignorant with a chip on their shoulder. Yale isn't the India Institute of Technology. It's not a statistics focused institution, it never has been, and it will never be. If you don't like it, then don't apply there or the other ivies.

I think you’re replying to the wrong post.

The post was long but an appropriate post to the people on this thread insisting that a particular GPA and a particular SAT should gain you admission to a particular school. That's not how it works, which is the gist of this long post.

While I understand the point you’re trying to make, the tone comes across as a bit harsh. For some, those may be the only things they have—or the beliefs that help them keep going.

I don’t see anyone in this thread “insisting that a particular GPA and a particular SAT should gain you admission to a particular school.” Rather, people are saying that if you rank below 30-35% other kids from your class at TJ, then not getting into an Ivy or T20 shouldn’t be surprising. Heck, at my son’s school, we have to replace 30-35% with 5-10%!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A kid smart enough for TJ would excel in the normal AP curriculum at their zoned school and most likely have better outcomes for college. This was clear to us when our child was in middle school and part of why we did not even pursue TJ. We are also zoned for a school with 40% FARMS which makes it easier to be top 5%. I don’t make the rules.

It depends. Some kids may work harder under a more competitive environment and when the courses are more demanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

You would have been 100x better off attending a lower resource school. I am not sure why TJ parents haven't grasped this yet?

It's always a balance. Bright students between 14-18 still need a peer group and good teachers to really succeed. Dropping some brainiac into the worst high school in East St. Louis isn't doing them any favors, both in life and for college admissions.

That being said, the TJ catchment area encompasses some perfectly good non-magnet public schools. So choices are being made. At the T20 level, you are always competing against classmates for those spots. And you have to distinguish yourself in some way. But I'm surprised this student was waitlisted at UVA. What are they doing in Charlottesville? I know they need to take students from all over the state and not just NOVA, but c'mon. A 4.4 and and a near 1600 from TJ? Really?

The most conspicuous college admissions penalty from TJ is at UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

Ivies hate TJ. Sorry. Don't shot the messenger. It is what it is.

If a TJ kid can make a good narrative around humanities, I think they would stand a decent chance but the applications are all Finance/STEM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

You would have been 100x better off attending a lower resource school. I am not sure why TJ parents haven't grasped this yet?

It's always a balance. Bright students between 14-18 still need a peer group and good teachers to really succeed. Dropping some brainiac into the worst high school in East St. Louis isn't doing them any favors, both in life and for college admissions.

That being said, the TJ catchment area encompasses some perfectly good non-magnet public schools. So choices are being made. At the T20 level, you are always competing against classmates for those spots. And you have to distinguish yourself in some way. But I'm surprised this student was waitlisted at UVA. What are they doing in Charlottesville? I know they need to take students from all over the state and not just NOVA, but c'mon. A 4.4 and and a near 1600 from TJ? Really?

The most conspicuous college admissions penalty from TJ is at UVA.

Bc they can’t admit half the school. This is not news.