Is GPA the most important?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

You are probably applying to the most competitive majors at those schools.
A 4.4 is about the top third of the class. You either had slightly lower rigor or you had at least 2 Bs.
With a 4.4, you have to ED someplace. Cornell becomes a hard admit with a 4.4.

The SAT just doesn't get the weight it used to.

See naviance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

LOL. No matter how many people tell you that academic performance is not a ranked system at Ivies, you refuse to believe them. Claim "racism" and move on. ACADEMICS IS A QUALIFIER it is not the determining factor. Listen to the Yale podcast. Listen to the Darmouth Podcast. Listen to the Columbia AO interview. They all say the same thing. Academics and test scores demonstrate you can do the work, after you are qualified you need to have a lot more. The qualifier is ROUGHLY an SAT of 1450 and a GPA (with max rigor) of 3.7ish. Yale, Dartmouth and Columbia all said the same thing, practically verbatim. And no, it isn't about keeping Asians out, or Italians, or Russians. It is about having kids who align with institutional priorities and enhance the community and the long-term standing of the institution.

So, having 100% math robot test takers isn't something they want. They want a certain number of actors/musicians, supreme court litigators, federal judges, olympic gold medalists, NHL superstars, senators, governors, hedge fund managers, high school english teachers, social workers, world bank heads, UN delegates, presidential candidates, novelists, artists, engineers, and tech people. It's just sad to see people tell you how the world is, and you go back to talking about stats stats stats, ranking rankings rankings, discrimination discrimination discrimination, SAT SAT SAT.

It is completely bonkers to me. These parents are ignorant with a chip on their shoulder. Yale isn't the India Institute of Technology. It's not a statistics focused institution, it never has been, and it will never be. If you don't like it, then don't apply there or the other ivies.

I think you’re replying to the wrong post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are TJ and Richard Montgomery comparable? RM’s exmissions are incredible, whereas I hear lots of complaints from TJ parents.

Following up:

Richard Montgomery: https://www.instagram.com/rmcommits26?igsh=MTl2OHV2NmZ0Z211Ng==

TJ: https://www.instagram.com/tj2026destinations?igsh=ZzZtNzBpeXRvc3po

I don't mean anything by it, but every kid to a T20 is asian, every one. Just an observation, good for them!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

I’d be curious to know where they applied early to?

This is the kind of kid that should’ve ED1/ED2 to WashU or Emory or Tufts.

ED1/2 to WashU would have been a smart strategy. I’m surprised that the parents were so surprised by the Ivy rejections! I think their kid got into a couple of schools in the Emory/Tufts range.

I would have ED1 Dartmouth or Cornell or Vanderbilt.
ED2 WashU or Rice.

What was the major?
Family probably thought the 1600 carried more weight than it did.

All those schools get a billion apps from students with perfect grades and test scores from everywhere in the US and much of the world. Once you hit a baseline for stats, the rest of the app is what matters - ECs, leadership, LOCs, community service, awards, etc. And that baseline is significantly lower than 4.4 and 1600. It's the what else you got part that matters at this level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

I’d be curious to know where they applied early to?

This is the kind of kid that should’ve ED1/ED2 to WashU or Emory or Tufts.

ED1/2 to WashU would have been a smart strategy. I’m surprised that the parents were so surprised by the Ivy rejections! I think their kid got into a couple of schools in the Emory/Tufts range.

I would have ED1 Dartmouth or Cornell or Vanderbilt.
ED2 WashU or Rice.

What was the major?
Family probably thought the 1600 carried more weight than it did.

All those schools get a billion apps from students with perfect grades and test scores from everywhere in the US and much of the world. Once you hit a baseline for stats, the rest of the app is what matters - ECs, leadership, LOCs, community service, awards, etc. And that baseline is significantly lower than 4.4 and 1600. It's the what else you got part that matters at this level.

also people don't apply for "majors" at ivies. people are clueless

[Anonymous]

Yield protection and move to lottery admissions at TJ. Possibly lack of good recommendation letters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

LOL. No matter how many people tell you that academic performance is not a ranked system at Ivies, you refuse to believe them. Claim "racism" and move on. ACADEMICS IS A QUALIFIER it is not the determining factor. Listen to the Yale podcast. Listen to the Darmouth Podcast. Listen to the Columbia AO interview. They all say the same thing. Academics and test scores demonstrate you can do the work, after you are qualified you need to have a lot more. The qualifier is ROUGHLY an SAT of 1450 and a GPA (with max rigor) of 3.7ish. Yale, Dartmouth and Columbia all said the same thing, practically verbatim. And no, it isn't about keeping Asians out, or Italians, or Russians. It is about having kids who align with institutional priorities and enhance the community and the long-term standing of the institution.

So, having 100% math robot test takers isn't something they want. They want a certain number of actors/musicians, supreme court litigators, federal judges, olympic gold medalists, NHL superstars, senators, governors, hedge fund managers, high school english teachers, social workers, world bank heads, UN delegates, presidential candidates, novelists, artists, engineers, and tech people. It's just sad to see people tell you how the world is, and you go back to talking about stats stats stats, ranking rankings rankings, discrimination discrimination discrimination, SAT SAT SAT.

It is completely bonkers to me. These parents are ignorant with a chip on their shoulder. Yale isn't the India Institute of Technology. It's not a statistics focused institution, it never has been, and it will never be. If you don't like it, then don't apply there or the other ivies.

I think you’re replying to the wrong post.

The post was long but an appropriate post to the people on this thread insisting that a particular GPA and a particular SAT should gain you admission to a particular school. That's not how it works, which is the gist of this long post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

I’d be curious to know where they applied early to?

This is the kind of kid that should’ve ED1/ED2 to WashU or Emory or Tufts.

ED1/2 to WashU would have been a smart strategy. I’m surprised that the parents were so surprised by the Ivy rejections! I think their kid got into a couple of schools in the Emory/Tufts range.

I would have ED1 Dartmouth or Cornell or Vanderbilt.
ED2 WashU or Rice.

What was the major?
Family probably thought the 1600 carried more weight than it did.

All those schools get a billion apps from students with perfect grades and test scores from everywhere in the US and much of the world. Once you hit a baseline for stats, the rest of the app is what matters - ECs, leadership, LOCs, community service, awards, etc. And that baseline is significantly lower than 4.4 and 1600. It's the what else you got part that matters at this level.

also people don't apply for "majors" at ivies. people are clueless

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

I’d be curious to know where they applied early to?

This is the kind of kid that should’ve ED1/ED2 to WashU or Emory or Tufts.

ED1/2 to WashU would have been a smart strategy. I’m surprised that the parents were so surprised by the Ivy rejections! I think their kid got into a couple of schools in the Emory/Tufts range.

I would have ED1 Dartmouth or Cornell or Vanderbilt.
ED2 WashU or Rice.

What was the major?
Family probably thought the 1600 carried more weight than it did.

All those schools get a billion apps from students with perfect grades and test scores from everywhere in the US and much of the world. Once you hit a baseline for stats, the rest of the app is what matters - ECs, leadership, LOCs, community service, awards, etc. And that baseline is significantly lower than 4.4 and 1600. It's the what else you got part that matters at this level.

also people don't apply for "majors" at ivies. people are clueless

You definitely apply to a specific college/major at Cornell and Penn.

And all the top schools, your application is read with the major(s) or academic interests listed…. it’s how they can also tell how competitive you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

LOL. No matter how many people tell you that academic performance is not a ranked system at Ivies, you refuse to believe them. Claim "racism" and move on. ACADEMICS IS A QUALIFIER it is not the determining factor. Listen to the Yale podcast. Listen to the Darmouth Podcast. Listen to the Columbia AO interview. They all say the same thing. Academics and test scores demonstrate you can do the work, after you are qualified you need to have a lot more. The qualifier is ROUGHLY an SAT of 1450 and a GPA (with max rigor) of 3.7ish. Yale, Dartmouth and Columbia all said the same thing, practically verbatim. And no, it isn't about keeping Asians out, or Italians, or Russians. It is about having kids who align with institutional priorities and enhance the community and the long-term standing of the institution.

So, having 100% math robot test takers isn't something they want. They want a certain number of actors/musicians, supreme court litigators, federal judges, olympic gold medalists, NHL superstars, senators, governors, hedge fund managers, high school english teachers, social workers, world bank heads, UN delegates, presidential candidates, novelists, artists, engineers, and tech people. It's just sad to see people tell you how the world is, and you go back to talking about stats stats stats, ranking rankings rankings, discrimination discrimination discrimination, SAT SAT SAT.

It is completely bonkers to me. These parents are ignorant with a chip on their shoulder. Yale isn't the India Institute of Technology. It's not a statistics focused institution, it never has been, and it will never be. If you don't like it, then don't apply there or the other ivies.

I think you’re replying to the wrong post.

The post was long but an appropriate post to the people on this thread insisting that a particular GPA and a particular SAT should gain you admission to a particular school. That's not how it works, which is the gist of this long post.

Understandable that you feel the Ivies should take a kid with low SAT score, as reading comprehension is not your strength. While a very high GPA or SAT score may not get you into a top college, an overall grade away from the top 20-30% at TJ means it’s an uphill battle for getting into an elite college. Also, your 3.7/1450 cutoff is plain wrong. A 3.7 uw GPA might be good at an elite private, but it’s only average in many high schools. A former AO from Yale explicitly said his cutoff for a low SAT is 1520, and he had older colleagues who still gave bonus points to a perfect 1600 score!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

Ivies hate TJ. Sorry. Don't shot the messenger. It is what it is.

There is some of this too. Reputation for being grinders and cheaters. I assume that teacher recs mean a LOT.

Every kid from our pvt high school that got into Ivy+ were well liked kids who added a lot to the community. Not just "volunteered at xyz", but at their actual high school. Tutors, Peer Counselors, etc. All of them had good personalities and were funny and happy. The recs, I think are huge missing piece. Two hypothetical examples of LORs for to students. Student #1 4.0 UW SAT 1580; Student #2 3.8UW SAT 1520:

"Student #1 is a very good student. They are always well prepared for class. They consistently are among the top performers in the entire school. Grades are very important to them, and they make sure that they always work hard to ensure that their grades are the best in the class. Indeed, they have the highest grades of any student that I have taught, and I have taught this class for 10 years. They are intensely focused on academic succes, and will work tirelessly to achieve their goals"

"Student #2 was one of my favorite students of all time. In addition to being one of my best students, I always looked forward to hearing them speak in class and their participation was always welcomed by the other students. Their questions were always very good, and sometimes wound up challenging the way I thought about the material that I presented. When I think of student #2, I think about her great smile and her funny quips that made the class enjoyable for other students. She was never disruptive, but always had a great sense of humor that lightened up a class that had an intense workload sometimes. During study halls, I would often see student #2 helping her other classmates work through difficult homework assignments. She was a valued member of our community, she had great school spirit and she will be missed greatly. Obviously her grades speak for themselves, and I don't doubt that she will be successful at the most academically rigorous colleges in the country."

Who do you want in your student body at Yale?

Pretty crappy teacher to write such a crappy letter. The teacher was likely bitter that the student had challenged them in class!

This is how you say "I'm an idiot" without saying "I'm an idiot".

[Anonymous]

I wonder who this angry/bitter poster is?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder who this angry/bitter poster is?!

I mean the one correcting people about rankings/majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

I’d be curious to know where they applied early to?

This is the kind of kid that should’ve ED1/ED2 to WashU or Emory or Tufts.

ED1/2 to WashU would have been a smart strategy. I’m surprised that the parents were so surprised by the Ivy rejections! I think their kid got into a couple of schools in the Emory/Tufts range.

I would have ED1 Dartmouth or Cornell or Vanderbilt.
ED2 WashU or Rice.

What was the major?
Family probably thought the 1600 carried more weight than it did.

All those schools get a billion apps from students with perfect grades and test scores from everywhere in the US and much of the world. Once you hit a baseline for stats, the rest of the app is what matters - ECs, leadership, LOCs, community service, awards, etc. And that baseline is significantly lower than 4.4 and 1600. It's the what else you got part that matters at this level.

also people don't apply for "majors" at ivies. people are clueless

You definitely apply to a specific college/major at Cornell and Penn.

And all the top schools, your application is read with the major(s) or academic interests listed…. it’s how they can also tell how competitive you are.

no. you apply to a specific school at penn. not a major. it's right on the website. and it's not how they tell if you are "competitive". it's how they attempt to predict what the makeup of the class is so they have balance. you don't get rank ordered within the "math" applicants at CAS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

I’d be curious to know where they applied early to?

This is the kind of kid that should’ve ED1/ED2 to WashU or Emory or Tufts.

ED1/2 to WashU would have been a smart strategy. I’m surprised that the parents were so surprised by the Ivy rejections! I think their kid got into a couple of schools in the Emory/Tufts range.

I would have ED1 Dartmouth or Cornell or Vanderbilt.
ED2 WashU or Rice.

What was the major?
Family probably thought the 1600 carried more weight than it did.

All those schools get a billion apps from students with perfect grades and test scores from everywhere in the US and much of the world. Once you hit a baseline for stats, the rest of the app is what matters - ECs, leadership, LOCs, community service, awards, etc. And that baseline is significantly lower than 4.4 and 1600. It's the what else you got part that matters at this level.

also people don't apply for "majors" at ivies. people are clueless

You definitely apply to a specific college/major at Cornell and Penn.

And all the top schools, your application is read with the major(s) or academic interests listed…. it’s how they can also tell how competitive you are.

no. you apply to a specific school at penn. not a major. it's right on the website. and it's not how they tell if you are "competitive". it's how they attempt to predict what the makeup of the class is so they have balance. you don't get rank ordered within the "math" applicants at CAS

Np.
If you list math and have no math extracurriculars or awards, how much does that hurt you with this predictive balancing?