Downward social mobility - anyone worries about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Young people have had to hustle since the beginning of time.

I don't know of any young people having to compete with the global elite.

The young people I know are working 2-3 jobs to complete their college educations. They are doing well now and buying houses.

I’m sorry, but this is completely tone-deaf.

1. Families are forced to fight for real K–12 education, not a dumbed-down curriculum, from the moment kids enter school.
2. Our kids then have to compete with international students for limited opportunities. How do you tell them, institutions prefer international students because of WHAT?
3. And even after that, they still face diminishing chances in the corporate America, which favors cheaper labor or just ships jobs overseas.

If you can’t see what Gen Z and our kids are up against, then you’re part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

DH and I are children of poor immigrants. We both studied hard, worked hard and now have a seven figure income. Our kids have had the lives DH and I could only dream of. They have the social capital DH and I didn’t. They can ski, golf, play tennis, swim, traveled all over the world, etc. I’m not sure they have the same drive DH and I did being poor immigrant kids. Time will tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you care if your kids have a downward trajectory - especially if they themselves don’t particularly care? It happens all the time. Family fortunes go up, and down.

+1
My family has been in the US since the Revolution. There have been a lot of ups and downs in the family’s fortunes since then. For some reason, wealthy people today seem to think that family fortunes stay intact over generations.

No, but it’s a lot easier to structure intergenerational wealth to help preserve it today than it was in the past. And the amount of financial education you can instill in your kids is much greater.

Eh.. to some degree. I am the PP you’re replying to. Your suggestions don’t solve the financial problems caused by substance abuse (common in rich families), things like the Great Depression, embezzlement, fraud, and a simple lack of desire to work hard. In a wealthy family, over the generations these things are almost guaranteed to appear.

Not just to some degree.

Multigenerational trusts can mitigate many of the issues you mentioned. These really took off in the 1980s and 90s with federal and state tax law changes, especially the Tax Reform Act of 1986. Financial literacy and education have become much more developed and standardized. Basically every decent investing book ever written has been done so after 1949 when Ben Graham wrote the The Intelligent Investor. Even The Missing Billionaires which came out a few years ago and documents why so many early 1900s wealthy families aren’t rich today—we just know so much more than we used to about how to manage wealth.

I guess this is good for wealthy families, but creating a permanent upperclass has to be bad for our country.

-an old school (not MAGA) Republican

People often say the middle class was a large bubble that emerged after World War II, and that idea has been on my mind a lot. Looking at history, it does seem accurate: for most of human history, resources have been concentrated in the hands of a very small group—whether kings/the royals in the past or billionaires today. Governments are created to serve everyone, regardless of SES, but in reality, that’s rarely how things play out, whether under democracy or communism.

There is no solution to the selfish gene.

+1

The underclass will only grow as more and more jobs are made obsolete.

The U.S. will have no choice but to implement a UBI and more safety nets, "socialism" be damned.

[Anonymous]

DH and I both grew up with dads that made a lot of money. Way more than DH and I will ever make combined. But DH and I are much better parents and we have a mostly happy life. Doubling our salaries could make us more happy in a vacuum, but I work part-time and DH has a lot of flexibility and we would not trade that. DH and I both have a chance of inheriting good money, but nothing in life is guaranteed. I want my kids to be happy. I don't want them to pick careers based on salary (DH tried that and it did not go well) and I certainly don't want them to marry for money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you care if your kids have a downward trajectory - especially if they themselves don’t particularly care? It happens all the time. Family fortunes go up, and down.

+1
My family has been in the US since the Revolution. There have been a lot of ups and downs in the family’s fortunes since then. For some reason, wealthy people today seem to think that family fortunes stay intact over generations.

No, but it’s a lot easier to structure intergenerational wealth to help preserve it today than it was in the past. And the amount of financial education you can instill in your kids is much greater.

why would you think that?? the edwardians who had money had inherited that wealth from the 16th century and it was all lost in a period of 20-30 years. the world has become more unstable now than it was before ww1, not less and while a lot of brits pulled through the 1930s and 40's.. by the 50s their great homes that had been in their families for 400, 600 years sometime longer were schools, hospitals and housing estates. its absolutely not certain that americans or just white people in general will be able to hold onto their wealth in a rapidly decolonizing world. I know several landed and titled people and their holdings have only recently grown to anything like what they were before and with this new extreme inequality and rebellion against oligarchy.. it might all get taxed away again. And you cant just run and hide in thailand-- haven't you read Empire of the Sun?? I say decolonizing b/c the structures that allowed the exploitation of resources are being adequately challenged and changed now.. it hadnt really happened before. if there was one thing I learned from my jewish neighbors- its that the good times are never certain and you have to have back up plans and resilience in your back pocket.

[Anonymous]

A few generations down, they all become MC. Accept it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you care if your kids have a downward trajectory - especially if they themselves don’t particularly care? It happens all the time. Family fortunes go up, and down.

+1
My family has been in the US since the Revolution. There have been a lot of ups and downs in the family’s fortunes since then. For some reason, wealthy people today seem to think that family fortunes stay intact over generations.

No, but it’s a lot easier to structure intergenerational wealth to help preserve it today than it was in the past. And the amount of financial education you can instill in your kids is much greater.

why would you think that?? the edwardians who had money had inherited that wealth from the 16th century and it was all lost in a period of 20-30 years. the world has become more unstable now than it was before ww1, not less and while a lot of brits pulled through the 1930s and 40's.. by the 50s their great homes that had been in their families for 400, 600 years sometime longer were schools, hospitals and housing estates. its absolutely not certain that americans or just white people in general will be able to hold onto their wealth in a rapidly decolonizing world. I know several landed and titled people and their holdings have only recently grown to anything like what they were before and with this new extreme inequality and rebellion against oligarchy.. it might all get taxed away again. And you cant just run and hide in thailand-- haven't you read Empire of the Sun?? I say decolonizing b/c the structures that allowed the exploitation of resources are being adequately challenged and changed now.. it hadnt really happened before. if there was one thing I learned from my jewish neighbors- its that the good times are never certain and you have to have back up plans and resilience in your back pocket.

Tell me you’re unfamiliar with trusts without telling me you’re unfamiliar with trusts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you care if your kids have a downward trajectory - especially if they themselves don’t particularly care? It happens all the time. Family fortunes go up, and down.

+1
My family has been in the US since the Revolution. There have been a lot of ups and downs in the family’s fortunes since then. For some reason, wealthy people today seem to think that family fortunes stay intact over generations.

No, but it’s a lot easier to structure intergenerational wealth to help preserve it today than it was in the past. And the amount of financial education you can instill in your kids is much greater.

why would you think that?? the edwardians who had money had inherited that wealth from the 16th century and it was all lost in a period of 20-30 years. the world has become more unstable now than it was before ww1, not less and while a lot of brits pulled through the 1930s and 40's.. by the 50s their great homes that had been in their families for 400, 600 years sometime longer were schools, hospitals and housing estates. its absolutely not certain that americans or just white people in general will be able to hold onto their wealth in a rapidly decolonizing world. I know several landed and titled people and their holdings have only recently grown to anything like what they were before and with this new extreme inequality and rebellion against oligarchy.. it might all get taxed away again. And you cant just run and hide in thailand-- haven't you read Empire of the Sun?? I say decolonizing b/c the structures that allowed the exploitation of resources are being adequately challenged and changed now.. it hadnt really happened before. if there was one thing I learned from my jewish neighbors- its that the good times are never certain and you have to have back up plans and resilience in your back pocket.

Tell me you’re unfamiliar with trusts without telling me you’re unfamiliar with trusts.

Trusts exist because the law
allows them to exist. Laws can be changed. Mandami and the proposed billionaires tax in California show that socialism is on the rise and progressives are willing to tax (take) money that the government previously did not touch. We’re entering into a populist era in which making the rich pay “ their fair share” is a very popular position. Nothing is guaranteed in this life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you care if your kids have a downward trajectory - especially if they themselves don’t particularly care? It happens all the time. Family fortunes go up, and down.

+1
My family has been in the US since the Revolution. There have been a lot of ups and downs in the family’s fortunes since then. For some reason, wealthy people today seem to think that family fortunes stay intact over generations.

No, but it’s a lot easier to structure intergenerational wealth to help preserve it today than it was in the past. And the amount of financial education you can instill in your kids is much greater.

why would you think that?? the edwardians who had money had inherited that wealth from the 16th century and it was all lost in a period of 20-30 years. the world has become more unstable now than it was before ww1, not less and while a lot of brits pulled through the 1930s and 40's.. by the 50s their great homes that had been in their families for 400, 600 years sometime longer were schools, hospitals and housing estates. its absolutely not certain that americans or just white people in general will be able to hold onto their wealth in a rapidly decolonizing world. I know several landed and titled people and their holdings have only recently grown to anything like what they were before and with this new extreme inequality and rebellion against oligarchy.. it might all get taxed away again. And you cant just run and hide in thailand-- haven't you read Empire of the Sun?? I say decolonizing b/c the structures that allowed the exploitation of resources are being adequately challenged and changed now.. it hadnt really happened before. if there was one thing I learned from my jewish neighbors- its that the good times are never certain and you have to have back up plans and resilience in your back pocket.

Tell me you’re unfamiliar with trusts without telling me you’re unfamiliar with trusts.

The Rockefellers have tons of trusts but the fortune that was passed onto heirs (a ton was given to charity…but a ton also given to heirs) is now basically 95% gone.

It’s distributing the fortune over lots of heirs…many of which don’t add anything to it…that eventually squanders it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know nearly a dozen young people who have opted not to have kids because they feel they can’t afford them.

All of these young people grew up in nice homes with two loving parents, great schools, travel, etc. Despite having good educations and jobs, the cost of housing plus kids is just too much.

Only one of my kids is old enough to really worry about such things, and they’ve opted to not come back to the dc metro area after college because it’s too expensive.

It’s sad how people choose to avoid hard work and live selfishly. Kids are a lot of work but also a great investment and a great way to be fulfilled!

Yes, I'm sure insulting people that don't have kids will shame them into reproducing. Nothing is more selfish than bringing more people onto an already crowded planet because you want little replicas of yourself running around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not worried because I came from nothing. It’s not the end of the world to live modestly. And if one has ambition and IQ and is hard working, there’s still plenty of options here in the U.S.
If they don’t, it’s fine too. Contrary to the popular belief, the U.S. social safety net isn’t that bad in blue states and if one knows how to navigate the system.

+1 Same here. Growing up in a solid middle class neighborhood was way more fun then what my kids have in Northern VA. Yes they have more opportunities and experiences, but I have very fond memories of my middle/working class roots and my friends that never left my town had good lives and their kids are fine albeit many of them went to community college or trade school, Happiness comes in all shapes and sizes, and plenty of smart people are middle class - they are just not as showy and obsessed with labels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not worried because I came from nothing. It’s not the end of the world to live modestly. And if one has ambition and IQ and is hard working, there’s still plenty of options here in the U.S.
If they don’t, it’s fine too. Contrary to the popular belief, the U.S. social safety net isn’t that bad in blue states and if one knows how to navigate the system.

+1 Same here. Growing up in a solid middle class neighborhood was way more fun then what my kids have in Northern VA. Yes they have more opportunities and experiences, but I have very fond memories of my middle/working class roots and my friends that never left my town had good lives and their kids are fine albeit many of them went to community college or trade school, Happiness comes in all shapes and sizes, and plenty of smart people are middle class - they are just not as showy and obsessed with labels.

Most of the people around here who’ve “made it” seem downright miserable.

[Anonymous]

This is just my observation. At times, parents may project their own insecurities and unhappiness onto their children, forgetting that the children never asked to carry that weight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Young people have had to hustle since the beginning of time.

I don't know of any young people having to compete with the global elite.

The young people I know are working 2-3 jobs to complete their college educations. They are doing well now and buying houses.

I’m sorry, but this is completely tone-deaf.

1. Families are forced to fight for real K–12 education, not a dumbed-down curriculum, from the moment kids enter school.
2. Our kids then have to compete with international students for limited opportunities. How do you tell them, institutions prefer international students because of WHAT?
3. And even after that, they still face diminishing chances in the corporate America, which favors cheaper labor or just ships jobs overseas.

If you can’t see what Gen Z and our kids are up against, then you’re part of the problem.

Once we all get guaranteed income like the tech bros say, we won't have to compete anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not worried because I came from nothing. It’s not the end of the world to live modestly. And if one has ambition and IQ and is hard working, there’s still plenty of options here in the U.S.
If they don’t, it’s fine too. Contrary to the popular belief, the U.S. social safety net isn’t that bad in blue states and if one knows how to navigate the system.

+1 Same here. Growing up in a solid middle class neighborhood was way more fun than what my kids have in Northern VA. Yes they have more opportunities and experiences, but I have very fond memories of my middle/working class roots and my friends that never left my town had good lives and their kids are fine albeit many of them went to community college or trade school, Happiness comes in all shapes and sizes, and plenty of smart people are middle class - they are just not as showy and obsessed with labels.

Time to move back home!! Nothing is keeping you here.