Downward social mobility - anyone worries about it?

[Anonymous]

I’m encouraging my kids to settle in medium sized Midwest city/suburb - Columbus/cincy/indy/mikwaukee/Kansas City/etc. I go to these places often for work. The job opportunities are decent, traffic isn’t crippling, houses are under $500k, and the young people I encounter are generally laid back, happy, and healthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you give to your DC's the best education in the world and they still can't succeed, an inheritance isn't going to make any difference (unless you have Elon Musk money).

Hmm... but being born into relative wealth and connections has been shown to be a major contributor to retaining class status (class in this context meaning same income bracket and general social circle). If you sense your kid isn't making those connections themselves, then you certainly can step in and try to help them. This is what families have been doing for ever.

One of my kids as an asocial form of high-functioning autism. He's smart, but cannot make small talk or network to save his life. I'm not quite sure where he's going to end up, but I certainly hope our money will keep him from poverty.

I don’t think a lot of you understand that young people don’t necessarily want their parents lifestyle, income level, and especially social circle. You should be hoping they make connections that suit them, not someone striving to be in a social circle like mom’s (this sounds horribly depressing).

They may not want the same things, true. But they struggle mightily with reduced lifestyle/spending power when it hits.

I totally struggled with this. Married after my PhD and DH wanted me to stay home and had kids right away. He was a researcher at NASA, so not exactly poor. But I’m from a more UMC background and was used to having more disposable income. Nine months later I got a really good job at a top corporate company (over 100k starting 25 years ago). I also pushed DH to leave NASA and enter the corporate world. We made a ton more money had kids and later in our careers had to fight multiple rounds of layoffs. Corporate companies really try to push out older people who are grandfathered in with pensions and 401k. Point is - kids WILL want the life they grew up with eventually. It’s uncomfortable to live anything else. FWIW my brother married into extreme wealth and is uncomfortable with many elements of his wife’s family due to their wealth - I think he would prefer her to be UMC like him - completely different mindset

A family member who grew up wealthy is engaged to a man from a very wealthy family. She’s not loving that aspect. She’d rather he not come from that kind of money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a Chinese saying, "wealth doesn't last more than three generations," insinuating that mismanagement is almost to be expected (e.g., spoiled offsprings, bad investments) and factors outside one's control that lead to downfalls are inevitable when the time horizon spans over half a century (e.g., political turmoil, wars).

There is a similar American saying "shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations"

Family fortunes are only a few generations away from failure.

Modern day wealthy are smarter about it and try to instill grit in their offspring.

As much as we use the term striver as a pejorative on this site, that is more or less what you want if you want to maintain that fortune

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know nearly a dozen young people who have opted not to have kids because they feel they can’t afford them.

All of these young people grew up in nice homes with two loving parents, great schools, travel, etc. Despite having good educations and jobs, the cost of housing plus kids is just too much.

Only one of my kids is old enough to really worry about such things, and they’ve opted to not come back to the dc metro area after college because it’s too expensive.

It’s sad how people choose to avoid hard work and live selfishly. Kids are a lot of work but also a great investment and a great way to be fulfilled!

Selfish is having kids just because it’s expected. Honestly, in present day society, I probably wouldn’t have brought them into this mess. I’m not talking about AI and political discord, I’m talking about the looming climate crisis.

The looming climate crisis is overstated. We might have to adjust to different weather patterns but we aren't going to hit a runaway greenhouse effect or anything like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm laughing at this because we're Jewish and every single Jewish family has a generational path that goes:

Shift worker in a zipper factory in Yonkers ---> public school English teacher in New York ---> Chairman of the Federal Reserve ---> Barista at an indi coffee shop in Brooklyn.

Asians are starting to see this effect as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you give to your DC's the best education in the world and they still can't succeed, an inheritance isn't going to make any difference (unless you have Elon Musk money).

Hmm... but being born into relative wealth and connections has been shown to be a major contributor to retaining class status (class in this context meaning same income bracket and general social circle). If you sense your kid isn't making those connections themselves, then you certainly can step in and try to help them. This is what families have been doing for ever.

One of my kids as an asocial form of high-functioning autism. He's smart, but cannot make small talk or network to save his life. I'm not quite sure where he's going to end up, but I certainly hope our money will keep him from poverty.

I don’t think a lot of you understand that young people don’t necessarily want their parents lifestyle, income level, and especially social circle. You should be hoping they make connections that suit them, not someone striving to be in a social circle like mom’s (this sounds horribly depressing).

This. They think it’s tone-deaf and boring (and a lot of it is).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you give to your DC's the best education in the world and they still can't succeed, an inheritance isn't going to make any difference (unless you have Elon Musk money).

Hmm... but being born into relative wealth and connections has been shown to be a major contributor to retaining class status (class in this context meaning same income bracket and general social circle). If you sense your kid isn't making those connections themselves, then you certainly can step in and try to help them. This is what families have been doing for ever.

One of my kids as an asocial form of high-functioning autism. He's smart, but cannot make small talk or network to save his life. I'm not quite sure where he's going to end up, but I certainly hope our money will keep him from poverty.

I don’t think a lot of you understand that young people don’t necessarily want their parents lifestyle, income level, and especially social circle. You should be hoping they make connections that suit them, not someone striving to be in a social circle like mom’s (this sounds horribly depressing).

They may not want the same things, true. But they struggle mightily with reduced lifestyle/spending power when it hits.

2

I totally struggled with this. Married after my PhD and DH wanted me to stay home and had kids right away. He was a researcher at NASA, so not exactly poor. But I’m from a more UMC background and was used to having more disposable income. Nine months later I got a really good job at a top corporate company (over 100k starting 25 years ago). I also pushed DH to leave NASA and enter the corporate world. We made a ton more money had kids and later in our careers had to fight multiple rounds of layoffs. Corporate companies really try to push out older people who are grandfathered in with pensions and 401k. Point is - kids WILL want the life they grew up with eventually. It’s uncomfortable to live anything else. FWIW my brother married into extreme wealth and is uncomfortablewith many elements of his wife’s family due to their wealth - I think he would prefer her to be UMC like him - completely different mindset

I hope you and your brother got past your childhoods. young adults want enough money like everyone else but everyone adjusts to their own adult lives. Kids meet people from all over the world from all kinds of backgrounds. People don’t marry someone because they grew up in the same type of neighborhood.

I hope your husband didn’t resent having to leave NASA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm laughing at this because we're Jewish and every single Jewish family has a generational path that goes:

Shift worker in a zipper factory in Yonkers ---> public school English teacher in New York ---> Chairman of the Federal Reserve ---> Barista at an indi coffee shop in Brooklyn.

Lol. There's a 30 Rock clip and quote about this too - "the first generation works their fingers to the bone making things. the next generation goes to college and innovates new ideas. the third generation...snowboards and takes improv classes" - Jack Donaghy

[Anonymous]

We’re actively teaching our children to want less stuff. We tell them repeatedly that our house is a little too big for us. We’re pint our friends and family who are happier in smaller dwellings. We point out how much time and money it takes to maintain everything. As long as we teach them to live within their means, I think they be okay. Problems arise when people have UMC taste in a MC salary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We’re actively teaching our children to want less stuff. We tell them repeatedly that our house is a little too big for us. We’re pint our friends and family who are happier in smaller dwellings. We point out how much time and money it takes to maintain everything. As long as we teach them to live within their means, I think they be okay. Problems arise when people have UMC taste in a MC salary.

Why didn’t you downgrade if it’s too big? Such a role model for preaching wanting less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We’re actively teaching our children to want less stuff. We tell them repeatedly that our house is a little too big for us. We’re pint our friends and family who are happier in smaller dwellings. We point out how much time and money it takes to maintain everything. As long as we teach them to live within their means, I think they be okay. Problems arise when people have UMC taste in a MC salary.

Us too. We have MC sensibilities with a lot of money in the bank. One of our kids is naturally very frugal and completely non-materialistic. The other likes stuff a little bit more. But living in a reasonable house in a regular neighborhood and sending them to normal public schools with friends from all income levels tends to keep them in check. I think they both find it pretty tasteless to flaunt wealth or care too much about particular brands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As the college application process wraps up, I’m realizing something that’s getting harder and harder to ignore: it really seems like DC is headed for downward social mobility. I just don’t see them pursuing a career that would allow them to maintain the lifestyle they grew up with. And since they’re not getting into Ivy League schools, they won’t even have the prestige, however little it may be, that might help them hold onto whatever social status comes with it.

And then there’s the bigger picture. The spouse they end up with will probably be in the same situation, and then there are their kids and the whole family trajectory. Add in the rise of AI and the disappearance of jobs, and it’s only going to make things worse.

Maybe this isn’t something people say out loud. One of those quiet anxieties. But can we rant about it on an anonymous forum.

It's a lot of things going on at once.

Crowding out by asian immigrants.
I see a lot of bitterness from the parents whose kids didn't make the AAP cut but would have if AAP wasn't saturated with asian kids
Same when it comes to college admissions.
These parents comfort themselves by derisively calling the asians strivers and imp[lying that their parents are somehow doing a bad job.

Global competition.
More and more professional positions are moving outside the USA. USA is losing its economic moat.

Technological disruption
AI. We're all worried about AI and what it means for our kids and grandkids.
If we could figure this one out, I think a lot of people would feel a lot better.
I suspect that AI will be an overall boon to humanity but it could be the origin story for the Cylons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know nearly a dozen young people who have opted not to have kids because they feel they can’t afford them.

All of these young people grew up in nice homes with two loving parents, great schools, travel, etc. Despite having good educations and jobs, the cost of housing plus kids is just too much.

Only one of my kids is old enough to really worry about such things, and they’ve opted to not come back to the dc metro area after college because it’s too expensive.

It’s sad how people choose to avoid hard work and live selfishly. Kids are a lot of work but also a great investment and a great way to be fulfilled!

Selfish is having kids just because it’s expected. Honestly, in present day society, I probably wouldn’t have brought them into this mess. I’m not talking about AI and political discord, I’m talking about the looming climate crisis.

The looming climate crisis is overstated. We might have to adjust to different weather patterns but we aren't going to hit a runaway greenhouse effect or anything like that.

Says you against the majority of scientists who actually study the subject. Okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know nearly a dozen young people who have opted not to have kids because they feel they can’t afford them.

All of these young people grew up in nice homes with two loving parents, great schools, travel, etc. Despite having good educations and jobs, the cost of housing plus kids is just too much.

Only one of my kids is old enough to really worry about such things, and they’ve opted to not come back to the dc metro area after college because it’s too expensive.

It’s sad how people choose to avoid hard work and live selfishly. Kids are a lot of work but also a great investment and a great way to be fulfilled!

Selfish is having kids just because it’s expected. Honestly, in present day society, I probably wouldn’t have brought them into this mess. I’m not talking about AI and political discord, I’m talking about the looming climate crisis.

The looming climate crisis is overstated. We might have to adjust to different weather patterns but we aren't going to hit a runaway greenhouse effect or anything like that.

Says you against the majority of scientists who actually study the subject. Okay.

I have both heat AND air conditioning. I’ll be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We’re actively teaching our children to want less stuff. We tell them repeatedly that our house is a little too big for us. We’re pint our friends and family who are happier in smaller dwellings. We point out how much time and money it takes to maintain everything. As long as we teach them to live within their means, I think they be okay. Problems arise when people have UMC taste in a MC salary.

Lol. We live in a DC rowhouse and our kids are always wanting to move into a bigger place.