Measles Outbreak

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
PPS: More specifically, SSPE is a sequelae of infection with a strain of measles virus that contains the PEA motif (residues P64, E89, and especially A209) in the matrix protein. 9 out of the 10 gene sequenced wild-type measles virus strains contain that PEA motif, but the vaccine strains do not. The vaccine strains have an SKT motif (S64, K89, T209) instead.

Measles viruses with the SKT motif have never been isolated in cases of SSPE, and neither has the one wild-type strain which does not have the PEA motif
(i.e., genotype B3 with PET).

So I'm not likely to concede that you are going to be killing a certain number of children a year via SSPE by giving them the measles vaccine. I would, however, like to be accurate in the predictions of how many would be likely to die from complications of measles infection, and for that I would first look at your reference for the number you gave.

I am picturing the other PP furiously typing ‘SKT motif’ and ‘PEA’ into ChatGPT

[Anonymous]

Thanks, PP. We've known about this since at least 2015:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4637438/
Measles Virus: Identification in the M Protein Primary Sequence of a Potential Molecular Marker for Subacute Sclerosing Panencephalitis (Advances in Virology)

There's a good update of understanding in 2022 Viruses:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35458463/

Please don't default to ChatGPT!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So when are we going to get the pile of bodies we were promised?

1 to 3 in 1000 children with measles die. Try as you might, you haven't been able to infect that many yet in this outbreak. There have been some child deaths already in overall cases, though.

Just imagine how much fun you'd have if you could ensure they were all unvaccinated! Are you betting on the numbers? What's the spread?

The rate was 1 in 1000 back in 1960. You guys really should update your numbers now and then, because a lots happened in the last 65 years. We don't have pockets of malnourished children like we did then, so the disease ends up being pretty mild.

The disease remains severe. What we have now is ECMO, ventilators, a whole lot of pharma, and the ability to crack a kid’s head open so his swollen brain has somewhere to go. If you don’t mind dropping a couple of million, we can save your kid, too. No guarantees about what he’s going to be like after, though.

+1 this person is very ignorant. 11% of the people diagnosed with measles in 2025 were hospitalized, more than 1/10. Three of these people who had measles died last year! In 2025, even with modern medical care you are talking about the fatality rate was still 1/760 last year.

Makes me so angry. These are needless deaths. Brought on by repudiation of one of the most amazing things science has ever produced because a conman wants to be president.

Most deaths in this country are arguably needless, but we give people the freedom to make the decisions that lead to their deaths or the deaths of others. We let any ole idiot purchase a 5,000 pound battering ram and drive it around a city, while carrying a military inspired weapon, a couple of pit-bulls roaming around the backseat while chugging the largest slurpee they could fit in a cup-holder. All of these things are far dumber decisions than passing on the measles vaccine and they produce far more deaths.

That's before you factor in the often ignored fact that vaccines are not risk free. You really should read the package inserts of the vaccines you advocate for. Let me show you a small portion of one:
Nervous System
Encephalitis; encephalopathy; measles inclusion body encephalitis (MIBE) subacute sclerosing
panencephalitis (SSPE); Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS); acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM);
transverse myelitis; febrile convulsions; afebrile convulsions or seizures; ataxia; polyneuritis;
polyneuropathy; ocular palsies; paresthesia; syncope."

Hrmm, one of those looks familiar...

So how many kids do we have to give SSPE to, uh, save kids from SSPE?

You know it's more common with the viral infection than with the vaccine, right?

I do not, could you tell me what the rate is for the vaccine?

Either way thanks to the work up thread on the lethality of SSPE we can safely say the MMR vaccine is killing kids.

People are disgusted by you, and rightfully so. You are reviled.

The rate of SSPE after vaccination is roughly 0.7 to 1 per million doses, and it is thought to be connected to unrecognized pre-existing measles infection.

The risk from measles infection (without widespread vaccination, this is essentially 100%, because it is so contagious) is a rate of somewhere between 10-300 cases per million -- unless you are under 1 year old, where the rate goes up to about 1 in 600.

You are so contemptible.

So that’s 3.6 million kids a year times two doses, SSPE at .7 per million and 95% fatality rate gets roughly 5 deaths per year. Agreed?

Aren't you still arguing that complication rates are down with better nutrition (et al.), or are we still using the same standard complication rates as previously for both vaccination and infection?

I’m using whatever numbers your compatriots posted. If you have better ones, feel free to post them.

So what is the cite for the 3.8 million from, again? Just to keep it clear.

The birth cohort for recent years, and it was 3.6. You can pick other years, but the number will just increase as those cohorts were bigger.

What's the cite for the number you are using, again?

(That means your refence, not just the number.)

It is weird that you can find journal articles but are stumped by demographic data. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/vsrr038.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
PPS: More specifically, SSPE is a sequelae of infection with a strain of measles virus that contains the PEA motif (residues P64, E89, and especially A209) in the matrix protein. 9 out of the 10 gene sequenced wild-type measles virus strains contain that PEA motif, but the vaccine strains do not. The vaccine strains have an SKT motif (S64, K89, T209) instead.

Measles viruses with the SKT motif have never been isolated in cases of SSPE, and neither has the one wild-type strain which does not have the PEA motif
(i.e., genotype B3 with PET).

So I'm not likely to concede that you are going to be killing a certain number of children a year via SSPE by giving them the measles vaccine. I would, however, like to be accurate in the predictions of how many would be likely to die from complications of measles infection, and for that I would first look at your reference for the number you gave.

You guys are arguing over a detail that is irrelevant. Even if the measles vaccine does kill 1/million people that get it. Measles is much more dangerous. Before the vaccine we had 3-4 million cases a year. So the number of deaths from measles each year was well in excess of 1,000 per year. Even if vaccine does kill 4 people a year that is much better than 1,000+ people dying from measles each year. Antivaxxers are incapable of understanding math apparently.

This was the attitude towards vaccines until recent days. There is a gruesome calculus in that some are sacrificed for others in the hope that it all nets out.

But somewhere along the way vaccines became infallible and talk of trade offs were censored. Now many find it impossible that a vaccine could cause harm.
But if that were so, then the men who built the system wouldn’t have carved out a special court system to stonewall those harmed by vaccines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
PPS: More specifically, SSPE is a sequelae of infection with a strain of measles virus that contains the PEA motif (residues P64, E89, and especially A209) in the matrix protein. 9 out of the 10 gene sequenced wild-type measles virus strains contain that PEA motif, but the vaccine strains do not. The vaccine strains have an SKT motif (S64, K89, T209) instead.

Measles viruses with the SKT motif have never been isolated in cases of SSPE, and neither has the one wild-type strain which does not have the PEA motif
(i.e., genotype B3 with PET).

So I'm not likely to concede that you are going to be killing a certain number of children a year via SSPE by giving them the measles vaccine. I would, however, like to be accurate in the predictions of how many would be likely to die from complications of measles infection, and for that I would first look at your reference for the number you gave.

You guys are arguing over a detail that is irrelevant. Even if the measles vaccine does kill 1/million people that get it. Measles is much more dangerous. Before the vaccine we had 3-4 million cases a year. So the number of deaths from measles each year was well in excess of 1,000 per year. Even if vaccine does kill 4 people a year that is much better than 1,000+ people dying from measles each year. Antivaxxers are incapable of understanding math apparently.

This was the attitude towards vaccines until recent days. There is a gruesome calculus in that some are sacrificed for others in the hope that it all nets out.

But somewhere along the way vaccines became infallible and talk of trade offs were censored. Now many find it impossible that a vaccine could cause harm.
But if that were so, then the men who built the system wouldn’t have carved out a special court system to stonewall those harmed by vaccines.

Please. The vaccine compensation program exists in part because it’s so difficult for injured patients to prove causation in real court. Under the current system, all you need is an injury covered by the program, and you will be paid. You don’t need to do anything to prove that the vaccine caused your injury. That’s not how it works under regular tort law, so good luck getting any money if RFK abolishes the program and you’re one of the rare people with a vaccine injury.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So when are we going to get the pile of bodies we were promised?

1 to 3 in 1000 children with measles die. Try as you might, you haven't been able to infect that many yet in this outbreak. There have been some child deaths already in overall cases, though.

Just imagine how much fun you'd have if you could ensure they were all unvaccinated! Are you betting on the numbers? What's the spread?

The rate was 1 in 1000 back in 1960. You guys really should update your numbers now and then, because a lots happened in the last 65 years. We don't have pockets of malnourished children like we did then, so the disease ends up being pretty mild.

The disease remains severe. What we have now is ECMO, ventilators, a whole lot of pharma, and the ability to crack a kid’s head open so his swollen brain has somewhere to go. If you don’t mind dropping a couple of million, we can save your kid, too. No guarantees about what he’s going to be like after, though.

+1 this person is very ignorant. 11% of the people diagnosed with measles in 2025 were hospitalized, more than 1/10. Three of these people who had measles died last year! In 2025, even with modern medical care you are talking about the fatality rate was still 1/760 last year.

Makes me so angry. These are needless deaths. Brought on by repudiation of one of the most amazing things science has ever produced because a conman wants to be president.

Most deaths in this country are arguably needless, but we give people the freedom to make the decisions that lead to their deaths or the deaths of others. We let any ole idiot purchase a 5,000 pound battering ram and drive it around a city, while carrying a military inspired weapon, a couple of pit-bulls roaming around the backseat while chugging the largest slurpee they could fit in a cup-holder. All of these things are far dumber decisions than passing on the measles vaccine and they produce far more deaths.

That's before you factor in the often ignored fact that vaccines are not risk free. You really should read the package inserts of the vaccines you advocate for. Let me show you a small portion of one:
Nervous System
Encephalitis; encephalopathy; measles inclusion body encephalitis (MIBE) subacute sclerosing
panencephalitis (SSPE); Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS); acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM);
transverse myelitis; febrile convulsions; afebrile convulsions or seizures; ataxia; polyneuritis;
polyneuropathy; ocular palsies; paresthesia; syncope."

Hrmm, one of those looks familiar...

So how many kids do we have to give SSPE to, uh, save kids from SSPE?

You know it's more common with the viral infection than with the vaccine, right?

I do not, could you tell me what the rate is for the vaccine?

Either way thanks to the work up thread on the lethality of SSPE we can safely say the MMR vaccine is killing kids.

People are disgusted by you, and rightfully so. You are reviled.

The rate of SSPE after vaccination is roughly 0.7 to 1 per million doses, and it is thought to be connected to unrecognized pre-existing measles infection.

The risk from measles infection (without widespread vaccination, this is essentially 100%, because it is so contagious) is a rate of somewhere between 10-300 cases per million -- unless you are under 1 year old, where the rate goes up to about 1 in 600.

You are so contemptible.

So that’s 3.6 million kids a year times two doses, SSPE at .7 per million and 95% fatality rate gets roughly 5 deaths per year. Agreed?

Aren't you still arguing that complication rates are down with better nutrition (et al.), or are we still using the same standard complication rates as previously for both vaccination and infection?

I’m using whatever numbers your compatriots posted. If you have better ones, feel free to post them.

So what is the cite for the 3.8 million from, again? Just to keep it clear.

The birth cohort for recent years, and it was 3.6. You can pick other years, but the number will just increase as those cohorts were bigger.

What's the cite for the number you are using, again?

(That means your refence, not just the number.)

It is weird that you can find journal articles but are stumped by demographic data. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/vsrr038.pdf

No, I was asking for where you got your data. It saves arguing later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
PPS: More specifically, SSPE is a sequelae of infection with a strain of measles virus that contains the PEA motif (residues P64, E89, and especially A209) in the matrix protein. 9 out of the 10 gene sequenced wild-type measles virus strains contain that PEA motif, but the vaccine strains do not. The vaccine strains have an SKT motif (S64, K89, T209) instead.

Measles viruses with the SKT motif have never been isolated in cases of SSPE, and neither has the one wild-type strain which does not have the PEA motif
(i.e., genotype B3 with PET).

So I'm not likely to concede that you are going to be killing a certain number of children a year via SSPE by giving them the measles vaccine. I would, however, like to be accurate in the predictions of how many would be likely to die from complications of measles infection, and for that I would first look at your reference for the number you gave.

You guys are arguing over a detail that is irrelevant. Even if the measles vaccine does kill 1/million people that get it. Measles is much more dangerous. Before the vaccine we had 3-4 million cases a year. So the number of deaths from measles each year was well in excess of 1,000 per year. Even if vaccine does kill 4 people a year that is much better than 1,000+ people dying from measles each year. Antivaxxers are incapable of understanding math apparently.

This was the attitude towards vaccines until recent days. There is a gruesome calculus in that some are sacrificed for others in the hope that it all nets out.

But somewhere along the way vaccines became infallible and talk of trade offs were censored. Now many find it impossible that a vaccine could cause harm.
But if that were so, then the men who built the system wouldn’t have carved out a special court system to stonewall those harmed by vaccines.

Please. The vaccine compensation program exists in part because it’s so difficult for injured patients to prove causation in real court. Under the current system, all you need is an injury covered by the program, and you will be paid. You don’t need to do anything to prove that the vaccine caused your injury. That’s not how it works under regular tort law, so good luck getting any money if RFK abolishes the program and you’re one of the rare people with a vaccine injury.

Which isn't going to be SSPE. You understand that now, correct?

Did you want to go over how many children will die of that without vaccinations?

[Anonymous]

This article in The Atlantic is haunting (written from the parent's perspective) but also full of specifics on symptoms/outcomes:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/02/child-dies-measles-vaccines/685969/?utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20260213&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&lctg=67e294c002b53fc1d00229ae&utm_term=The%20Atlantic%20Daily

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
PPS: More specifically, SSPE is a sequelae of infection with a strain of measles virus that contains the PEA motif (residues P64, E89, and especially A209) in the matrix protein. 9 out of the 10 gene sequenced wild-type measles virus strains contain that PEA motif, but the vaccine strains do not. The vaccine strains have an SKT motif (S64, K89, T209) instead.

Measles viruses with the SKT motif have never been isolated in cases of SSPE, and neither has the one wild-type strain which does not have the PEA motif
(i.e., genotype B3 with PET).

So I'm not likely to concede that you are going to be killing a certain number of children a year via SSPE by giving them the measles vaccine. I would, however, like to be accurate in the predictions of how many would be likely to die from complications of measles infection, and for that I would first look at your reference for the number you gave.

You guys are arguing over a detail that is irrelevant. Even if the measles vaccine does kill 1/million people that get it. Measles is much more dangerous. Before the vaccine we had 3-4 million cases a year. So the number of deaths from measles each year was well in excess of 1,000 per year. Even if vaccine does kill 4 people a year that is much better than 1,000+ people dying from measles each year. Antivaxxers are incapable of understanding math apparently.

This was the attitude towards vaccines until recent days. There is a gruesome calculus in that some are sacrificed for others in the hope that it all nets out.

But somewhere along the way vaccines became infallible and talk of trade offs were censored. Now many find it impossible that a vaccine could cause harm.
But if that were so, then the men who built the system wouldn’t have carved out a special court system to stonewall those harmed by vaccines.

Please. The vaccine compensation program exists in part because it’s so difficult for injured patients to prove causation in real court. Under the current system, all you need is an injury covered by the program, and you will be paid. You don’t need to do anything to prove that the vaccine caused your injury. That’s not how it works under regular tort law, so good luck getting any money if RFK abolishes the program and you’re one of the rare people with a vaccine injury.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This article in The Atlantic is haunting (written from the parent's perspective) but also full of specifics on symptoms/outcomes:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/02/child-dies-measles-vaccines/685969/?utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20260213&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&lctg=67e294c002b53fc1d00229ae&utm_term=The%20Atlantic%20Daily

Looks interesting but blocked by paywall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
PPS: More specifically, SSPE is a sequelae of infection with a strain of measles virus that contains the PEA motif (residues P64, E89, and especially A209) in the matrix protein. 9 out of the 10 gene sequenced wild-type measles virus strains contain that PEA motif, but the vaccine strains do not. The vaccine strains have an SKT motif (S64, K89, T209) instead.

Measles viruses with the SKT motif have never been isolated in cases of SSPE, and neither has the one wild-type strain which does not have the PEA motif
(i.e., genotype B3 with PET).

So I'm not likely to concede that you are going to be killing a certain number of children a year via SSPE by giving them the measles vaccine. I would, however, like to be accurate in the predictions of how many would be likely to die from complications of measles infection, and for that I would first look at your reference for the number you gave.

You guys are arguing over a detail that is irrelevant. Even if the measles vaccine does kill 1/million people that get it. Measles is much more dangerous. Before the vaccine we had 3-4 million cases a year. So the number of deaths from measles each year was well in excess of 1,000 per year. Even if vaccine does kill 4 people a year that is much better than 1,000+ people dying from measles each year. Antivaxxers are incapable of understanding math apparently.

This was the attitude towards vaccines until recent days. There is a gruesome calculus in that some are sacrificed for others in the hope that it all nets out.

But somewhere along the way vaccines became infallible and talk of trade offs were censored. Now many find it impossible that a vaccine could cause harm.
But if that were so, then the men who built the system wouldn’t have carved out a special court system to stonewall those harmed by vaccines.

Please. The vaccine compensation program exists in part because it’s so difficult for injured patients to prove causation in real court. Under the current system, all you need is an injury covered by the program, and you will be paid. You don’t need to do anything to prove that the vaccine caused your injury. That’s not how it works under regular tort law, so good luck getting any money if RFK abolishes the program and you’re one of the rare people with a vaccine injury.

This is why I love DCUM. Top level info about public policy. I actually think DCUM is one of the best sources for accurate info about federal arcana (that is actually very important).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article in The Atlantic is haunting (written from the parent's perspective) but also full of specifics on symptoms/outcomes:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/02/child-dies-measles-vaccines/685969/?utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20260213&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&lctg=67e294c002b53fc1d00229ae&utm_term=The%20Atlantic%20Daily

Looks interesting but blocked by paywall.

DP. I have a gift link.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/02/child-dies-measles-vaccines/685969/?gift=P4PbparCGiV10Ifk2hg6wpMT06p6Yg63JBaAcDlRFE0&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article in The Atlantic is haunting (written from the parent's perspective) but also full of specifics on symptoms/outcomes:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/02/child-dies-measles-vaccines/685969/?utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20260213&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&lctg=67e294c002b53fc1d00229ae&utm_term=The%20Atlantic%20Daily

Looks interesting but blocked by paywall.

DP. I have a gift link.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/02/child-dies-measles-vaccines/685969/?gift=P4PbparCGiV10Ifk2hg6wpMT06p6Yg63JBaAcDlRFE0&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

Thank you for sharing this.
Unfortunately people seem to need to learn everything for themselves and not from others’ mistakes. Though you’d think Covid would have been sufficient to teach everyone how awful pandemics are. But no, all MAGA learned was that they didn’t like being told to wear masks or be vaccinated to participate in society.

[Anonymous]

For those who think the vaccine is a choice. I know the family that has 2 of the cases in Virginia. A 14 month and 3 year old both had their first vaccine but are not of age yet for second. Caught measles at airport or on plane. Developed pneumonia. Went to pediatrician and urgent care multiple times before spots appeared exposing others unknowingly. Ended up in ICU with feeding tubes and breathing difficulty. Doctors aren't even diagnosing correctly because this used to be and could be now: preventable. Family quarantined for 21 days from work etc. Younger one almost died. This family did everything right and still suffered greatly and could have been worse. Why are people supporting this? My own maga family supports this. I just don't understand. My maga mom was against the covid vaccine in her 80s. Had a few friends die from it and is now just starting to think it might be worth getting. Just thinking about it though. No action.

[Anonymous]

Eventually, natural selection will wash through the masses.