Do you let your high schoolers enjoy wine with dinner at home?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of alcoholic relatives of DCUMs. It explains a lot.

Whatever, MAGA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're French, and had our kids taste wine and other alcohols when they pretty young, because in many French families, this is what happens. They didn't like it. So now they're young adults and older teens, we drink extremely rarely (a couple of times a year, maybe), and the children don't usually join us, even though we'd have no problems if they did. I think we all lack the gene that makes humans like alcohol. It does nothing for us. We would definitely NOT be fine with frequent drinking. As PP said, it's not good for your health.

Teens in France binge drink a lot more than American teens. Most European countries are the same.

Not exactly. Teens in France self report more binge drinking in some data sets. But this makes sense because it is legal to drink at age 16 whereas American teens would be self reporting illegal activity. You would expect to see such a discrepancy.

You have to be careful about interpreting survey data.

Maybe but these are anonymous surveys. And in France the legal age to drink is 19. You can only drink alcohol if you are with an adult legal guardian. Hopefully no one is binge drinking with mom. The rest of the European teens report binging a lot more than Americans.

It's 18 and no, you can definitely order a beer while in high school.

It’s 18? Ok but it’s not 16 anymore. Countries raise age limits when there is a problem.

The US had a drunk driving problem which European countries did have I as bad as us. So the US raised it back to 21 years old. France and other countries saw binge drinking in teens so they increased their ages. Some of them, like Germany and France, have exceptions depending on whatever. French teens have problems with binge drinking.

In the US the raised drinking level to age 21 helped delay binge drinking. It also helped keep teens out of bars. When the drinking age was 18 it was easy for a 14 year old to get a fake ID that was believable. Now only older teens usually in college use fake IDs. Teen deaths in drunk driving went way down when the age to drink was raised

That was the main and pretty much only reason it was raised to 21.
Though kids can still drink with parents in bars in some states, but at least the parent is there to keep them under control and not start any trouble.

Citation please.

[Anonymous]

Younger DD had a glass of wine with dinner all the way across Europe at 16. It didn’t turn her into a drinker back home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're French, and had our kids taste wine and other alcohols when they pretty young, because in many French families, this is what happens. They didn't like it. So now they're young adults and older teens, we drink extremely rarely (a couple of times a year, maybe), and the children don't usually join us, even though we'd have no problems if they did. I think we all lack the gene that makes humans like alcohol. It does nothing for us. We would definitely NOT be fine with frequent drinking. As PP said, it's not good for your health.

Teens in France binge drink a lot more than American teens. Most European countries are the same.

Not exactly. Teens in France self report more binge drinking in some data sets. But this makes sense because it is legal to drink at age 16 whereas American teens would be self reporting illegal activity. You would expect to see such a discrepancy.

You have to be careful about interpreting survey data.

Maybe but these are anonymous surveys. And in France the legal age to drink is 19. You can only drink alcohol if you are with an adult legal guardian. Hopefully no one is binge drinking with mom. The rest of the European teens report binging a lot more than Americans.

It's 18 and no, you can definitely order a beer while in high school.

It’s 18? Ok but it’s not 16 anymore. Countries raise age limits when there is a problem.

The US had a drunk driving problem which European countries did have I as bad as us. So the US raised it back to 21 years old. France and other countries saw binge drinking in teens so they increased their ages. Some of them, like Germany and France, have exceptions depending on whatever. French teens have problems with binge drinking.

In the US the raised drinking level to age 21 helped delay binge drinking. It also helped keep teens out of bars. When the drinking age was 18 it was easy for a 14 year old to get a fake ID that was believable. Now only older teens usually in college use fake IDs. Teen deaths in drunk driving went way down when the age to drink was raised

That was the main and pretty much only reason it was raised to 21.
Though kids can still drink with parents in bars in some states, but at least the parent is there to keep them under control and not start any trouble.

Citation please.

I don’t think it’s the only reason but it’s a big reason. Federal government created a law to raise the drinking age to 21 and states gradually increased their minimum age to 21 throughout the 1980s.

From NIH. - Surveys tracking alcohol consumption among high school students and young adults found that drinking declined since the late 1970 s, and most of the decline occurred by the early 1990 s. These were the years when states were establishing, a minimum drinking age to -21. Among fatally injured drivers ages 16-20, the percentage with positive BACs (blood alcohol levels that showed they were legally impaired) declined from 61% in 1982 to 31% in 1995, a bigger decline than for older age groups; declines occurred among the ages directly affected by raising the age (ages 18-20) and among young teenagers not directly affected (ages 16-17).

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20497803/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We aren’t alcoholics that drink every day.

Oh, this is so tiresome. If someone has dessert every day, do you say they have a "dessert problem" or are a "chocoholic?"

Chocolate is not a neurotoxin like alcohol is.

A drink a day doesn’t make you an alcoholic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I am an MD with a large wine collection and I even got married in Napa. I think that we have tried to rationalize away the health harms of alcohol for a long time - studies touting red wine and cardiac health, alcohol as a part of the Mediterranean diet, alcohol in moderation for pregnant women is fine, etc have long been cited as reasons to keep drinking. But the alcohol industry’s funding of such studies and the well established studies looking at cytotoxicity of alcohol and the well known links between alcohol consumption and cancer should give us pause.

Alcohol is so damn enjoyable and so culturally acceptable that we are willing to look past all the harm that it does to health and societal well being. If you look at it dispassionately, it seems obvious that the bad outweighs the good. Those prohibitionists had a point.

I’ve cut back and drink once a month or less. My last drink was in March. I should quit completely, but I admit it - I enjoy wine and champagne and I don’t want to give it up on social occasions (I’ve successfully been indoctrinated by the wine industry). I love the glasses and the bottles, wine tasting, the whole theater of ordering wine at a restaurant, walking into a wine shop etc. But I am coming around to the fact that alcohol is unequivocally bad for you. I definitely do not offer or encourage my teens to drink.

I also think that we will one day view pregnant moms who have a glass of burgundy with dinner the same way we view pregnant moms who enjoy a Marlboro light after dinner. Smoking used to be acceptable and even advised for pregnant women.

I was last pregnant nearly 20 years ago and it was very much known that pregnant women should not drink at all and that it was damaging.

https://archive.nytimes.com/well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/22/really-an-occasional-drink-is-o-k-during-pregnancy/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23590126/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're French, and had our kids taste wine and other alcohols when they pretty young, because in many French families, this is what happens. They didn't like it. So now they're young adults and older teens, we drink extremely rarely (a couple of times a year, maybe), and the children don't usually join us, even though we'd have no problems if they did. I think we all lack the gene that makes humans like alcohol. It does nothing for us. We would definitely NOT be fine with frequent drinking. As PP said, it's not good for your health.

Teens in France binge drink a lot more than American teens. Most European countries are the same.

Not exactly. Teens in France self report more binge drinking in some data sets. But this makes sense because it is legal to drink at age 16 whereas American teens would be self reporting illegal activity. You would expect to see such a discrepancy.

You have to be careful about interpreting survey data.

Maybe but these are anonymous surveys. And in France the legal age to drink is 19. You can only drink alcohol if you are with an adult legal guardian. Hopefully no one is binge drinking with mom. The rest of the European teens report binging a lot more than Americans.

It's 18 and no, you can definitely order a beer while in high school.

It’s 18? Ok but it’s not 16 anymore. Countries raise age limits when there is a problem.

The US had a drunk driving problem which European countries did have I as bad as us. So the US raised it back to 21 years old. France and other countries saw binge drinking in teens so they increased their ages. Some of them, like Germany and France, have exceptions depending on whatever. French teens have problems with binge drinking.

In the US the raised drinking level to age 21 helped delay binge drinking. It also helped keep teens out of bars. When the drinking age was 18 it was easy for a 14 year old to get a fake ID that was believable. Now only older teens usually in college use fake IDs. Teen deaths in drunk driving went way down when the age to drink was raised

That was the main and pretty much only reason it was raised to 21.
Though kids can still drink with parents in bars in some states, but at least the parent is there to keep them under control and not start any trouble.

Citation please.

You live in a bubble?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We aren’t alcoholics that drink every day.

Oh, this is so tiresome. If someone has dessert every day, do you say they have a "dessert problem" or are a "chocoholic?"

Chocolate is not a neurotoxin like alcohol is.

A drink a day doesn’t make you an alcoholic.

Interestingly, most people I know pour more than 1 serving of wine into their glass. Usually, their glass is 2-3 times what the definition of a glass of wine. 🍷

[Anonymous]

Tl;dr

No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure what the research says, but I always assumed it was a way to make alcohol not a big deal, but my son's friend was allowed alcohol from an early age ranging from a sip to eventually a glass and the kids (big family) all struggle with alcohol if not full blown alcoholism as teens and young adults so apparently it didn't work in that case.

What the research says (it validates your observation):

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6521692/

https://www.jsad.com/doi/10.15288/jsad.21-00437

,gov
jsad
Seriously? And you don't realize their agendas?

Public health? What do you think their "agenda" is?

Oh you sweet summer child.

Yes I’m sure their agenda is to prevent you from the health benefits of alcohol and ruin your social life. I’m sure you’ve cracked the code.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're French, and had our kids taste wine and other alcohols when they pretty young, because in many French families, this is what happens. They didn't like it. So now they're young adults and older teens, we drink extremely rarely (a couple of times a year, maybe), and the children don't usually join us, even though we'd have no problems if they did. I think we all lack the gene that makes humans like alcohol. It does nothing for us. We would definitely NOT be fine with frequent drinking. As PP said, it's not good for your health.

Teens in France binge drink a lot more than American teens. Most European countries are the same.

Not exactly. Teens in France self report more binge drinking in some data sets. But this makes sense because it is legal to drink at age 16 whereas American teens would be self reporting illegal activity. You would expect to see such a discrepancy.

You have to be careful about interpreting survey data.

Maybe but these are anonymous surveys. And in France the legal age to drink is 19. You can only drink alcohol if you are with an adult legal guardian. Hopefully no one is binge drinking with mom. The rest of the European teens report binging a lot more than Americans.

It's 18 and no, you can definitely order a beer while in high school.

It’s 18? Ok but it’s not 16 anymore. Countries raise age limits when there is a problem.

The US had a drunk driving problem which European countries did have I as bad as us. So the US raised it back to 21 years old. France and other countries saw binge drinking in teens so they increased their ages. Some of them, like Germany and France, have exceptions depending on whatever. French teens have problems with binge drinking.

In the US the raised drinking level to age 21 helped delay binge drinking. It also helped keep teens out of bars. When the drinking age was 18 it was easy for a 14 year old to get a fake ID that was believable. Now only older teens usually in college use fake IDs. Teen deaths in drunk driving went way down when the age to drink was raised

That was the main and pretty much only reason it was raised to 21.
Though kids can still drink with parents in bars in some states, but at least the parent is there to keep them under control and not start any trouble.

Citation please.

I don’t think it’s the only reason but it’s a big reason. Federal government created a law to raise the drinking age to 21 and states gradually increased their minimum age to 21 throughout the 1980s.

From NIH. - Surveys tracking alcohol consumption among high school students and young adults found that drinking declined since the late 1970 s, and most of the decline occurred by the early 1990 s. These were the years when states were establishing, a minimum drinking age to -21. Among fatally injured drivers ages 16-20, the percentage with positive BACs (blood alcohol levels that showed they were legally impaired) declined from 61% in 1982 to 31% in 1995, a bigger decline than for older age groups; declines occurred among the ages directly affected by raising the age (ages 18-20) and among young teenagers not directly affected (ages 16-17).

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20497803/

Your citation doesn't say anything about keeping teens out of bars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're French, and had our kids taste wine and other alcohols when they pretty young, because in many French families, this is what happens. They didn't like it. So now they're young adults and older teens, we drink extremely rarely (a couple of times a year, maybe), and the children don't usually join us, even though we'd have no problems if they did. I think we all lack the gene that makes humans like alcohol. It does nothing for us. We would definitely NOT be fine with frequent drinking. As PP said, it's not good for your health.

Teens in France binge drink a lot more than American teens. Most European countries are the same.

Not exactly. Teens in France self report more binge drinking in some data sets. But this makes sense because it is legal to drink at age 16 whereas American teens would be self reporting illegal activity. You would expect to see such a discrepancy.

You have to be careful about interpreting survey data.

Maybe but these are anonymous surveys. And in France the legal age to drink is 19. You can only drink alcohol if you are with an adult legal guardian. Hopefully no one is binge drinking with mom. The rest of the European teens report binging a lot more than Americans.

It's 18 and no, you can definitely order a beer while in high school.

It’s 18? Ok but it’s not 16 anymore. Countries raise age limits when there is a problem.

The US had a drunk driving problem which European countries did have I as bad as us. So the US raised it back to 21 years old. France and other countries saw binge drinking in teens so they increased their ages. Some of them, like Germany and France, have exceptions depending on whatever. French teens have problems with binge drinking.

In the US the raised drinking level to age 21 helped delay binge drinking. It also helped keep teens out of bars. When the drinking age was 18 it was easy for a 14 year old to get a fake ID that was believable. Now only older teens usually in college use fake IDs. Teen deaths in drunk driving went way down when the age to drink was raised

That was the main and pretty much only reason it was raised to 21.
Though kids can still drink with parents in bars in some states, but at least the parent is there to keep them under control and not start any trouble.

Citation please.

I don’t think it’s the only reason but it’s a big reason. Federal government created a law to raise the drinking age to 21 and states gradually increased their minimum age to 21 throughout the 1980s.

From NIH. - Surveys tracking alcohol consumption among high school students and young adults found that drinking declined since the late 1970 s, and most of the decline occurred by the early 1990 s. These were the years when states were establishing, a minimum drinking age to -21. Among fatally injured drivers ages 16-20, the percentage with positive BACs (blood alcohol levels that showed they were legally impaired) declined from 61% in 1982 to 31% in 1995, a bigger decline than for older age groups; declines occurred among the ages directly affected by raising the age (ages 18-20) and among young teenagers not directly affected (ages 16-17).

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20497803/

Your citation doesn't say anything about keeping teens out of bars.

Every teen knows which local bars allow underage people in. They also know which retailers don’t care about selling alcohol to people under 21.

[Anonymous]

This has to be a troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We aren’t alcoholics that drink every day.

Oh, this is so tiresome. If someone has dessert every day, do you say they have a "dessert problem" or are a "chocoholic?"

Chocolate is not a neurotoxin like alcohol is.

A drink a day doesn’t make you an alcoholic.

But it does increase your risk of cancer, damage your brain, age you, cause depression/anxiety, and lower your overall health and wellbeing. I say this as someone who drinks more than once a week, but I know how bad it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We aren’t alcoholics that drink every day.

Oh, this is so tiresome. If someone has dessert every day, do you say they have a "dessert problem" or are a "chocoholic?"

Chocolate is not a neurotoxin like alcohol is.

A drink a day doesn’t make you an alcoholic.

But it does increase your risk of cancer, damage your brain, age you, cause depression/anxiety, and lower your overall health and wellbeing. I say this as someone who drinks more than once a week, but I know how bad it is.

So does having an extra slice of bread or soda a day. Everything you do affects you.