Maybe it would be a good thing if Trump limited international students at t100 schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A big MAGA talking point is that foreigners are taking US jobs. It's true - you try getting a job in the Silicon Valley. That is where I'm from, my family lived there until recently but it is literally impossible to compete with H1B visa holders - and now their kids and friends. Even in areas that you don't need tech skills - like marketing - you can't compete. And then competing with foreign students to get into college - there are less spaces for Americans, so there is less opportunity for them and it's a downward spiral.

The universities don't need billions saved in endowments. They can afford to not take foreign money from students.

Sounds like you want a form of socialism where the government dictates how private organizations are run.

Fwiw I also used to work in the Bay Area. I'm also an American.

lol. So anytime the government dictates something that is socialism. Can I stop paying my taxes because this isn’t a socialist country? You are an idiot.

Hey dummy. You maga are the ones who decry socialism whenever the government wants to tell private organizations what to do. But now all of a sudden, it's fine for government to do just that because it's Trump? Gtfo

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ever since the end of WWII, there has always been a partnership between the US government and academia. Not just in research, but in ensuring that the US remains the center of the academic world. We have always wanted the elite from other countries to come here for their education - it's good for soft power, it's good for business, it's good for networking, and it's good for research. There is no downside to future leaders in business, science, and politics coming to the US to study.

But since the end of the Cold War, things went to autopilot and there hasn't been much thinking about anything. Now we see mediocre Chinese and Indian students taking a lot of spots at selective universities.

And you have to ask why? Where is the value added here? It's not 1980 anymore. Who cares where the daughter of a Morgan Stanley employee in Shanghai goes to school, and why does this girl deserve a spot compared to the gazilions of other students applying to these schools.

In some ways, the Trump Administration is just a loud, vulgar, and obnoxious course correction. I do think top 20 universities need to be transparent with who they accept and why - given the enormous impact these students have on everything.

Top 100 is ridiculous though. School #99 is mostly interested in filling seats and paying the bills. The pull pay kid from Wuhan or Bangalore is nothing but a plus for the entire university community.

Except a loud vulgar course correction can destroy the whole thing, the people swinging hammers are looking to destroy US soft power. There have always been rich brats getting what they want that's measure zero, focus on the big picture.

[Anonymous]

If you thought Harvard was just a lofty ivy league college churning out brilliant American minds, you have no idea of the filth that actually goes on there. Do some research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you thought Harvard was just a lofty ivy league college churning out brilliant American minds, you have no idea of the filth that actually goes on there. Do some research.

Don't go. And excuse yourself from taking advantage of any of the medical advancement that comes out of all the research done at Harvard and a lot of other universities. Just stick with leeches and bloodletting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Common Data Set

24-25 Princeton 11.2%
396 International students out of 3,525 enrolled freshman

John Hopkins 17%
236 international out of 1389 enrolled freshman

23-24, 24-25 Stanford Section C1 listing of international students Blank

23-24, 24-25 MIT Section Blank

Cornell 11.2%
396 International freshman out of 3525

Dartmouth 14.3%
170 freshman out of 1,182 enrolled freshman

Brown 17.6%
304 international out of 1719 enrolled freshman

These are all private institutions who don’t owe you anything. Further, many of these wealthy international kids went to US boarding schools from middle school up. We know several.

Good point, maybe the caps need to start earlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

In what universe does a government have a right to do that? I mean they could cut off all foreign students but not just to “top” schools.
I won’t even get into how dumb this is - these students are the way we get skilled immigrants , which we need. Not to mention massive soft power and prestige. Which is way better as a defense investment than most of the DoD.

You didn't think it through, are you sure that you can assert that we would not still get the benefit? The vast majority of foreign students would happily go to schools outside of the T100, many do. Also, many at the top schools go because of the very generous aid. There are some interesting things to study there regarding the elasticity of college attendance by international students relative to financial aid and university rank.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Enough domestic full pay applicants without the university meaningfully lowering their admissions standards? Or are you just saying that if you let in anybody who can pay, you will find enough people who want to go?

I'm sure there's a lot of variation in how admissions are done, but the schools I'm familiar with have a separate application for international students. Domestic students are not truly competing with the international pool for the same spots.

There are 100,000 high schools in the U.S. which means that there are 500,000 kids who graduate in the top 5 of their class. Surely there are enough full pay kids in the U.S. who also meet academic standards.

About 27,000 High Schools but we get your point and the answer is yes, there are.

[Anonymous]

There aren't any worthwhile students outside of the t60 or so (after Tulane.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Collèges are closing all over the country. There is room for every American who is capable of college work, plus many who are not.

Harvard has always been a bastion of elitism. Once it was class. Briefly it was academic prowess. Now it’s some other combined formula of achievement, money and ambition.

It has never been a pure meritocracy. Those claiming they are owed a spot there might look at the broader picture of haves and have nots in this country. You want yours, but seem to have little concern with what others will never have.

The sense that the greatest power and prestige are just within grasp, keeps people focused on the dream of that little brass ring. Whoosh there goes our democracy. There goes medical research.

Foreign students occupying some seats there hardly matter.

This is good. Now people need to realize that the same holds for ALDC admits and just lighten up in general. Your kids will be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

Yes. Yes it would

[Anonymous]

Harvard and other top private institutions are top of the list precisely because they have the ability to select top students globally. It's not as though America made Harvard (or other institutions) great. They are remarkable international institutions that happen to be located in the US. And if the US wanted to prize education and knowledge, and prepare our kids academically, we could do so but have largely chosen other priorities. The problem isn't that Harvard has international students, it's that the US has made decisions, long-term, that education is not a priority so we have a harder time keeping up. And frankly, if Harvard needs to move out of the US, temporarily or long term, it as the money and ability to do so. That will hurt the US as Harvard graduate (from the US or elsewhere) make outsized positive impacts on national science and academic progress, and tend to be high intellectual and financial contributors. But they can increasingly go elsewhere for their studies and research and to settle down. Many other places are eager to take in our top talent and the international talent we have until recently attracted. China, the UK and Europe, among others, couldn't be happier with the US policies encouraging the international (and US) best and brightest to move elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Enough domestic full pay applicants without the university meaningfully lowering their admissions standards? Or are you just saying that if you let in anybody who can pay, you will find enough people who want to go?

I'm sure there's a lot of variation in how admissions are done, but the schools I'm familiar with have a separate application for international students. Domestic students are not truly competing with the international pool for the same spots.

There are 100,000 high schools in the U.S. which means that there are 500,000 kids who graduate in the top 5 of their class. Surely there are enough full pay kids in the U.S. who also meet academic standards.

Median household income is 80k, top 20 percent is 150k, there is no way those families can pay for 80-90k/year with after tax money, only a handful elite colleges will pay for talented kids from those families if they don't get Pell Grant.
BTW, there are about 26k high schools, talented kids only go to a small percentage of them.

DP. Take the top 10-20% from whatever number of high schools you think has talented kids.

Even TJ won't have 20% of class going to T20 colleges, there isn't just enough talented kids unless lowering standards.

Really? I thought that TJ was better than that. I can name a half dozen schools off of the op of my head in the bay area (public and private) where at least 50% (real number is probably higher)of the student body could attend a T20 without lowering the quality one bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Enough domestic full pay applicants without the university meaningfully lowering their admissions standards? Or are you just saying that if you let in anybody who can pay, you will find enough people who want to go?

I'm sure there's a lot of variation in how admissions are done, but the schools I'm familiar with have a separate application for international students. Domestic students are not truly competing with the international pool for the same spots.

There are 100,000 high schools in the U.S. which means that there are 500,000 kids who graduate in the top 5 of their class. Surely there are enough full pay kids in the U.S. who also meet academic standards.

+1. My high stats full pay kid will be attending a T70 while kids from other countries with lower stats are being paid to attend top US colleges. There are plenty of full pay families in the US with academically qualified kids. Of course, there are a number of reasons top colleges choose to pay for international students to attend - clearly that has value to the college - but academic qualifications are not the reason.

That’s simply untrue. Your kid is at a T70. He didn’t have the stats. Period. Nobody is taking his spot. My son (unhooked/top stars) was accepted to multiple Ivies/T10/20s

4.0, 1570, 13 APs are, of course, insufficient only in DCUM fantasy land.

Similar sibling is at a T10. It isn't the stats.

If those numbers are real there are two possibilities:

1. Attending a T70 by choice
2. Didn't put together a balanced list including T25-T50 schools

Did they choose or mess up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There aren't any worthwhile students outside of the t60 or so (after Tulane.)

Yeah, all those completely worthless engineers at RPI (school immediately after Tulane).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Enough domestic full pay applicants without the university meaningfully lowering their admissions standards? Or are you just saying that if you let in anybody who can pay, you will find enough people who want to go?

I'm sure there's a lot of variation in how admissions are done, but the schools I'm familiar with have a separate application for international students. Domestic students are not truly competing with the international pool for the same spots.

There are 100,000 high schools in the U.S. which means that there are 500,000 kids who graduate in the top 5 of their class. Surely there are enough full pay kids in the U.S. who also meet academic standards.

+1. My high stats full pay kid will be attending a T70 while kids from other countries with lower stats are being paid to attend top US colleges. There are plenty of full pay families in the US with academically qualified kids. Of course, there are a number of reasons top colleges choose to pay for international students to attend - clearly that has value to the college - but academic qualifications are not the reason.

That’s simply untrue. Your kid is at a T70. He didn’t have the stats. Period. Nobody is taking his spot. My son (unhooked/top stars) was accepted to multiple Ivies/T10/20s

-1 DP here and it's not a matter of having the stats. These schools are called lottery schools because there are so many kids with the stats to get in and some will, some won't. We have more than enough qualified domestic students to reduce foreign students back to around 5%.

Enough with using our taxpayer dollars to fund opportunities for kids from other countries. These elite universities have sold their agendas to the highest bidders from other countries that don't have our best interests at heart and now they're bastions of anti-American activity. I'm all for correcting this.

Utter nonsense