Does Racism Exist for Middle-Upper/Upper Class Americans?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I was born and raised in the US, speak impeccable English, attended an elite liberal arts college and a top ten law school. I have money, too. All of that hasn't shielded me from racism, I'm sorry. I truly thought that it would, but I entered the work force and was dismayed to find that education, assimilation, speaking a common language and wealth aren't in fact enough. Like you, I thought that it would be. You're lucky you haven't had to learn that nasty lesson yourself; my guess is that you enjoy the privilege of being white. But I will admit that there are ignorant people of all ethnicities who thing the same way that you do.

If you have the nerve to tell someone in person what you just wrote her, do so. Ask a friend, acquaintance or colleague of color to explain racism to you.

Unfortunately, the term racism has become a catch-all phrase used by AAs to describe anyone who does not agree with them on cultural issues. AAs would be wise to eliminate the term racism from their vocabularies altogether. It is too easily used as an excuse and it is too often used as a lazy topic of conversation related to which white people are racist or not, and which ones are really closet racists.

AAs should also eliminate the phrase "acting white" from their vocabularies. It's unclear how one actually acts white, but the end result is always self-segregation. The time has come for all Americans to use our common language and to speak it correctly or at least to the best of one's ability. Regardless of race, anyone who uses double negatives or uses incomplete words appears to be stupid. This has nothing to do with an individual’s race or intelligence, it's about personal choice.

Mainstream American society looks down on people who have children outside of wedlock. Recent statistics suggest that 70% of AAs and 30% of whites have children without the benefit of marriage. Those children start out life with an enormous disadvantage. This has nothing to do with race; this is a case of personal choice. When men wear their pants down below their buttocks they are saying that I am part the gang, gangsta, in and out of jail culture. This style has nothing to do with race, it is about personal choice.

The cultural practices and personal choices described above are repugnant to me. Am I permitted to feel this way? Some would deny me that right. Stop confusing my contempt for certain cultural practices usually identified with the AA community as racism.

[Anonymous]

PP here, my first paragragraph failed to paste; Sorry

Our president is of African descent, his wife is brilliant, and his children are beautiful. Last night Donovan McNabb was interviewed after the game. He is hard working, well spoken, and athletic. This guy has it all. The above mentioned people and people like them are role models for me and my children. America is not a racist country. America has good people and bad people, and they come in every color and all ethnicities.

Unfortunately, the term racism has become a catch-all phrase used by AAs to describe anyone who does not agree with them on cultural issues. AAs would be wise to eliminate the term racism from their vocabularies altogether. It is too easily used as an excuse and it is too often used as a topic of conversation related to which white people are racist or not, and which ones are really closet racists.

AAs should eliminate the phrase "acting white" from their vocabularies. It's unclear how one actually acts white, but the end result is always self-segregation. The time has come for all Americans to use our common language and to speak it correctly or at least to the best of one's ability. Regardless of race, anyone who uses double negatives or uses incomplete words appears to be stupid. This has nothing to do with an individual’s intelligence, it is about personal choice.

Mainstream American society looks down on people who have children outside of wedlock. Recent statistics suggest that 70% of AAs and 30% of whites have children without the benefit of marriage. Those children start out life with an enormous disadvantage. This has nothing to do with race; this is a case of personal choice. When men wear their pants down below their buttocks they are saying that I am part the gang, gangsta, in and out of jail culture. This style has nothing to do with race, it is about personal choice.

The cultural practices and personal choices described above are repugnant to me. Am I permitted to feel this way? Some would deny me that right. Stop confusing my contempt for certain cultural practices usually identified with the AA community as racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A staggering number of Americans think Barack Obama is not a real American citizen and that he's a Muslim! Would those idiocies persist if he were a white guy? Hell, no.

To be fair Obama's dad is not American there is some confusion about his birth certificate and mother was a Muslim at one point and his father was a Muslim.

No one thinks that Harold Ford or Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton or Kendrick Meek etc weren't born in the US or are Muslims.

What kind of crazy logic is this?

1. What does it matter if his mother was a muslim at one point?
2. Are you saying that because some black politicians are accepted as Americans, that Obama birthers are therefore not racist? That's just weak logic.

Please pay attention. The PP said that those people who question whether Barack Obama was either born in the USA or is a Muslim are racist. I was merely pointing out that his religion or place or birth are not as clear cut as a number of other black politicians. You don't have to be necessarily racist to question it.

This goes to the heart of what other posters are saying, in that when someone disagrees with an AA they are automatically branded as a racist even if that wasn't the intent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here, my first paragragraph failed to paste; Sorry

Our president is of African descent, his wife is brilliant, and his children are beautiful. Last night Donovan McNabb was interviewed after the game. He is hard working, well spoken, and athletic. This guy has it all. The above mentioned people and people like them are role models for me and my children. America is not a racist country. America has good people and bad people, and they come in every color and all ethnicities.

Unfortunately, the term racism has become a catch-all phrase used by AAs to describe anyone who does not agree with them on cultural issues. AAs would be wise to eliminate the term racism from their vocabularies altogether. It is too easily used as an excuse and it is too often used as a topic of conversation related to which white people are racist or not, and which ones are really closet racists.

AAs should eliminate the phrase "acting white" from their vocabularies. It's unclear how one actually acts white, but the end result is always self-segregation. The time has come for all Americans to use our common language and to speak it correctly or at least to the best of one's ability. Regardless of race, anyone who uses double negatives or uses incomplete words appears to be stupid. This has nothing to do with an individual’s intelligence, it is about personal choice.

Mainstream American society looks down on people who have children outside of wedlock. Recent statistics suggest that 70% of AAs and 30% of whites have children without the benefit of marriage. Those children start out life with an enormous disadvantage. This has nothing to do with race; this is a case of personal choice. When men wear their pants down below their buttocks they are saying that I am part the gang, gangsta, in and out of jail culture. This style has nothing to do with race, it is about personal choice.

The cultural practices and personal choices described above are repugnant to me. Am I permitted to feel this way? Some would deny me that right. Stop confusing my contempt for certain cultural practices usually identified with the AA community as racism.

What is troubling about your post is that even though you identify Obama and McNabb as counter examples, you go on to say "AAs do this" and "AAs do that." It's very disturbing to see how you generalize about a whole race of people but think this is okay because you said that Obama and McNabb are respectable people. This is how a distaste for certain cultural practices (and believe me I totally don't get the pants hanging below the ass) ends up being interpreted as racism -- because the way you describe these practices implies that you attribute them to all AAs.

I know I know -- you will point out that in the first paragraph you pointed out that there are good and bad people in all races. But your following paragraphs make it sound like all AAs do these things that you detest. If you don't want to be perceived as a racist, at a minimum, you need to improve your writing skills. Because the first paragraph doesn't make up for the paragraphs that follow it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here, my first paragragraph failed to paste; Sorry

Our president is of African descent, his wife is brilliant, and his children are beautiful. Last night Donovan McNabb was interviewed after the game. He is hard working, well spoken, and athletic. This guy has it all. The above mentioned people and people like them are role models for me and my children. America is not a racist country. America has good people and bad people, and they come in every color and all ethnicities.

Unfortunately, the term racism has become a catch-all phrase used by AAs to describe anyone who does not agree with them on cultural issues. AAs would be wise to eliminate the term racism from their vocabularies altogether. It is too easily used as an excuse and it is too often used as a topic of conversation related to which white people are racist or not, and which ones are really closet racists.

AAs should eliminate the phrase "acting white" from their vocabularies. It's unclear how one actually acts white, but the end result is always self-segregation. The time has come for all Americans to use our common language and to speak it correctly or at least to the best of one's ability. Regardless of race, anyone who uses double negatives or uses incomplete words appears to be stupid. This has nothing to do with an individual’s intelligence, it is about personal choice.

Mainstream American society looks down on people who have children outside of wedlock. Recent statistics suggest that 70% of AAs and 30% of whites have children without the benefit of marriage. Those children start out life with an enormous disadvantage. This has nothing to do with race; this is a case of personal choice. When men wear their pants down below their buttocks they are saying that I am part the gang, gangsta, in and out of jail culture. This style has nothing to do with race, it is about personal choice.

The cultural practices and personal choices described above are repugnant to me. Am I permitted to feel this way? Some would deny me that right. Stop confusing my contempt for certain cultural practices usually identified with the AA community as racism.

What is troubling about your post is that even though you identify Obama and McNabb as counter examples, you go on to say "AAs do this" and "AAs do that." It's very disturbing to see how you generalize about a whole race of people but think this is okay because you said that Obama and McNabb are respectable people. This is how a distaste for certain cultural practices (and believe me I totally don't get the pants hanging below the ass) ends up being interpreted as racism -- because the way you describe these practices implies that you attribute them to all AAs.

I know I know -- you will point out that in the first paragraph you pointed out that there are good and bad people in all races. But your following paragraphs make it sound like all AAs do these things that you detest. If you don't want to be perceived as a racist, at a minimum, you need to improve your writing skills. Because the first paragraph doesn't make up for the paragraphs that follow it.

Agree - the implicit assertion that all black people act a certain way is racist, and it has nothing to do with you disagreeing with black people on cultural issues.

Do you know any black people? I don't know a single black person that would deem someone racist for not agreeing with them on cultural issues. Maybe one someone points out racism, you see it as a cultural difference, and someone else sees it as discriminatory or as an unfair prejudice.

And non-black people are quite guilty of telling a black person s/he "acts white" when she doesn't act in a stereotypically "black" manner. As if a black person can't be intelligent and articulate. I am Asian, grew up in a diverse area and have black friends and white friends. It was always the white people who would say in casual conversation, "Oh, but she doesn't act black." WTF? Black people recognize that they aren't a homogenous class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I were discussing this--he thinks not, I do. But, in trying to convince him, I had few examples on which to draw. Am I wrong? He says that the fact that we have an Af Am president shows that the vast majority of Americans are not racist anymore. What do you think? Can you link any recent studies about this one way or the other?

Thank you.

The better question would be "do racism and sexism exist in any class in America"? Not only yes, but Hell yes, and they always will. We are not a color- or gender-blind country and probably will never be so. Well, maybe when there are no more pure-bred WASPs and that will take hundreds of years. Is your husband a comedian?

Maybe sooner than that. Perhaps when Hispanics become the majority in the US and the Chinese the majority in the world.

Hispanics becoming the majority ethnic group in the United States will not end white privilege. Look to history to prove that having a lower population does not necessarily mean that you will not retain the power.

Yes but will that be true for the US? They came here, a country where people from all over the world came for a new and better life, as free people not dehumanized or displaced through slavery. Also, this is not their native land which had been taken over by force, coercion, trickery or theft or by those with more advanced technologies or by those who brought diseases that wiped out their people. They will be able to freely elect representatives to Congress and other seats of power. And they will benefit from affirmative action and advance through education to eventually take on the majority of leadership positions.

The Golden Rule: Those who have the gold, rule. Guess who has the gold and behind-the-scenes influence and power? One of the main reasons Obama was taken seiously and, ultimately elected, was due to Caroline Kennedy. According to a recent report she is no longer on good terms with him and regrets her endorsement, as this broke up her friendship with the Clintons, and Obama did not give her a plumb appointment. She is but one example of power and how it used. Money talks; bullshit walks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH is white ad thinks that growing up poor put him at a greater disadvantage than growing up white. He believes that the wealthy black children had more privileges and opportunities than he did (travel, internships, private schools). He is very bitter when we have discussions about race because he thinks that the "white privilege" concept is flawed by not taking into account wealth and class.

I am white and also grew up in a poor, working class family. I think SES should play a greater role in higher education, but I still firmly believe that I am a beneficiary of white privilege .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A staggering number of Americans think Barack Obama is not a real American citizen and that he's a Muslim! Would those idiocies persist if he were a white guy? Hell, no.

To be fair Obama's dad is not American there is some confusion about his birth certificate and mother was a Muslim at one point and his father was a Muslim.

No one thinks that Harold Ford or Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton or Kendrick Meek etc weren't born in the US or are Muslims.

His mom is from the United States - he could've been born on MARS and he would still be a U.S. citizen. Even Hawai'i passed a law allowing the hospital to not have to respond to the queries from crazies about his birth certificate. The only folks confused about his birth certificate are folks who do not believe in a reality-based society.

And, regardless of whether his mother was once a Muslim, what does it matter? There is NOTHING in the Constitution precluding a Muslim from being president of the United States. Moreover, the president spent years attending a UCC church in Chicago. Was that all for show?

Then why was there question about John McCain being born in Panama. The law states that only US born citizens can be President. The unwritten rule is there is a pass for those of military or government families. Gwyneth Paltrow is the first to say that her kids couldn't be president because they were born in London.

I think the question about Obama's birth certificate is because many African countries will issue one for foreign born children and not state they were foreign born. A good friend of mine is married to an African and they have birth certificates, from his home country, that state the kids were born there.

But the president wasn't born in Kenya, he was born in the United States - Hawai'i. Why do folks continue to discuss this? His birth certificate was not issued in Nairobi (or Eldoret, Lamu, or Mombasa). It was issued in Hawai'i.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A staggering number of Americans think Barack Obama is not a real American citizen and that he's a Muslim! Would those idiocies persist if he were a white guy? Hell, no.

To be fair Obama's dad is not American there is some confusion about his birth certificate and mother was a Muslim at one point and his father was a Muslim.

No one thinks that Harold Ford or Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton or Kendrick Meek etc weren't born in the US or are Muslims.

What kind of crazy logic is this?

1. What does it matter if his mother was a muslim at one point?
2. Are you saying that because some black politicians are accepted as Americans, that Obama birthers are therefore not racist? That's just weak logic.

Please pay attention. The PP said that those people who question whether Barack Obama was either born in the USA or is a Muslim are racist. I was merely pointing out that his religion or place or birth are not as clear cut as a number of other black politicians. You don't have to be necessarily racist to question it.

This goes to the heart of what other posters are saying, in that when someone disagrees with an AA they are automatically branded as a racist even if that wasn't the intent.

How are his religion and place of birth not clear?

[Anonymous]

wow, I guess all the whites just suck in this country. We either hate blacks, asians, mexicans or anything other than our own. Maybe everyone with these problems should go back to what ever country they or their great, great grand daddy came from. I am so sure life is much better there. That's why we have such a immigration problem in the U.S. We hate everyone. People stop bitching. So the hell what if you can't get into a country club. Form your own and don't let white people join. Yes, I am white, I do not consider myself a racist at all. I have friends from all walks of life. Thankfully not one of them stand around complaining about how bad they are treated in the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
What is troubling about your post is that even though you identify Obama and McNabb as counter examples, you go on to say "AAs do this" and "AAs do that." It's very disturbing to see how you generalize about a whole race of people but think this is okay because you said that Obama and McNabb are respectable people. This is how a distaste for certain cultural practices (and believe me I totally don't get the pants hanging below the ass) ends up being interpreted as racism -- because the way you describe these practices implies that you attribute them to all AAs.

I know I know -- you will point out that in the first paragraph you pointed out that there are good and bad people in all races. But your following paragraphs make it sound like all AAs do these things that you detest. If you don't want to be perceived as a racist, at a minimum, you need to improve your writing skills. Because the first paragraph doesn't make up for the paragraphs that follow it.

The first paragraph specifically identifies just a few of the many AAs whom I admire. I apologize if my writing suggested that I believe all or most AAs exhibit certain behaviors that I find truly disdainful.

My overall point was that in some cases the AA community has chosen to self-segregate rather than assimilate with mainstream American norms. That’s okay as long as people are willing to accept that it has been their personal choice and not something that is presently being imposed upon them.

I also apologize for past wrongs, but at some moment in time we will all have to move forward equally assuming responsibility for our current state of affairs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:wow, I guess all the whites just suck in this country. We either hate blacks, asians, mexicans or anything other than our own. Maybe everyone with these problems should go back to what ever country they or their great, great grand daddy came from. I am so sure life is much better there. That's why we have such a immigration problem in the U.S. We hate everyone. People stop bitching. So the hell what if you can't get into a country club. Form your own and don't let white people join. Yes, I am white, I do not consider myself a racist at all. I have friends from all walks of life. Thankfully not one of them stand around complaining about how bad they are treated in the country.

If the bold text is truly all you've taken away from this discussion, you're showing your poor comprehension skills.

And for the red text- go back to whatever country your great great great daddy came from? Yeah, black Americans don't have the luxury of knowing from which countries their ancestors hailed thanks to a little thing called slavery. Look it up.

Also, this country is the land of the Native American people, so maybe you should go back to the country of your ancestors.

I can't tell if you're racist, but you're surely ignorant.

[Anonymous]

wow, I guess all the whites just suck in this country. We either hate blacks, asians, mexicans or anything other than our own. Maybe everyone with these problems should go back to what ever country they or their great, great grand daddy came from. I am so sure life is much better there. That's why we have such a immigration problem in the U.S. We hate everyone. People stop bitching. So the hell what if you can't get into a country club. Form your own and don't let white people join. Yes, I am white, I do not consider myself a racist at all. I have friends from all walks of life. Thankfully not one of them stand around complaining about how bad they are treated in the country.

Why are you so defensive? I am a PP in this thread who mentioned times when I have felt discriminated against or that people have made incorrect assumptions. How do you leap from statements of personal experience with some people that I or anyone else is saying "all whites just suck in this country?" Acknowledging that racism exists in the country is not the same thing as saying all whites are racist. Is everything in life always 100% perfect for you? do you never have a negative or frustrating experience? Do you never complain? If you complained about poor service in a restaurant, should someone tell you to be happy you have food to eat, and if you aren't, go back where your ancestors came from?

And people accuse racial minorities f having knee-jerk reactions . . . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A staggering number of Americans think Barack Obama is not a real American citizen and that he's a Muslim! Would those idiocies persist if he were a white guy? Hell, no.

To be fair Obama's dad is not American there is some confusion about his birth certificate and mother was a Muslim at one point and his father was a Muslim.

No one thinks that Harold Ford or Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton or Kendrick Meek etc weren't born in the US or are Muslims.

His mom is from the United States - he could've been born on MARS and he would still be a U.S. citizen. Even Hawai'i passed a law allowing the hospital to not have to respond to the queries from crazies about his birth certificate. The only folks confused about his birth certificate are folks who do not believe in a reality-based society.

And, regardless of whether his mother was once a Muslim, what does it matter? There is NOTHING in the Constitution precluding a Muslim from being president of the United States. Moreover, the president spent years attending a UCC church in Chicago. Was that all for show?

Then why was there question about John McCain being born in Panama. The law states that only US born citizens can be President. The unwritten rule is there is a pass for those of military or government families. Gwyneth Paltrow is the first to say that her kids couldn't be president because they were born in London.

I think the question about Obama's birth certificate is because many African countries will issue one for foreign born children and not state they were foreign born. A good friend of mine is married to an African and they have birth certificates, from his home country, that state the kids were born there.

But the president wasn't born in Kenya, he was born in the United States - Hawai'i. Why do folks continue to discuss this? His birth certificate was not issued in Nairobi (or Eldoret, Lamu, or Mombasa). It was issued in Hawai'i.

Yes, but some people could be confused if Hawaii isn't allowing his birth certificate to be made public but Kenya publicised one saying he was born there. I could see how that would be confusing for some people.

[Anonymous]

"DH is white ad thinks that growing up poor put him at a greater disadvantage than growing up white. He believes that the wealthy black children had more privileges and opportunities than he did (travel, internships, private schools). He is very bitter when we have discussions about race because he thinks that the "white privilege" concept is flawed by not taking into account wealth and class. "

Why in the world did you marry this jackass?