CS: What are some of the good LACs or small colleges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top three SLACs are:

Harvey Mudd
Grinnell
Pomona

Honorable mentions:
Davidson
Carleton
Middleburry

How easy/difficult is to get CS in these?

Getting admission into these colleges for sure is not easy. Look at their acceptance rates:

Harvey Mudd - 13%
Grinnell - 13%
Pomona - 7%
Davidson - 14%
Carleton - 22%
Middleburry - 10%

Not only getting into these colleges is tough, they have very low enrolment in CS. Mudd has only 48, Grinnell 54, Pomona 33..

Not sure whether its a good idea to chase CS a LAC. With 476 enrolment, Isn't Purdue way better than these LACs?

Why waste time and effort at these LACs?

Mudd only has 48 STUDENTS in CS? Am I reading that correctly? Per year, or total in program. I suspect I’m not reading this correctly

They’re not telling you some critical information- Mudd students usually only major in 1 subject, so there’s Cs, an independent degree, and then there’s CS-Math CS-physics, etc.

Last year, Mudd had 37 CS majors, 52 CS-math majors, 4 CS-Physics majors, 8 MathCompBio majors, and 62 engineering major- some of those students are computer engineering students, but Mudd doesn’t have sub disciplines.

Forgot to add that this was the graduating class.

[Anonymous]

Thank you. Still, it puts into perspective how small a cohort there is for many programs. Pros and cons…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you. Still, it puts into perspective how small a cohort there is for many programs. Pros and cons…

All liberal arts colleges are really small. Mudd is extra small because it’s a relatively new college and the Claremont colleges have finite space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top three SLACs are:

Harvey Mudd
Grinnell
Pomona

Honorable mentions:
Davidson
Carleton
Middleburry

How easy/difficult is to get CS in these?

Getting admission into these colleges for sure is not easy. Look at their acceptance rates:

Harvey Mudd - 13%
Grinnell - 13%
Pomona - 7%
Davidson - 14%
Carleton - 22%
Middleburry - 10%

Not only getting into these colleges is tough, they have very low enrolment in CS. Mudd has only 48, Grinnell 54, Pomona 33..

Not sure whether its a good idea to chase CS a LAC. With 476 enrolment, Isn't Purdue way better than these LACs?

Why waste time and effort at these LACs?

CS table starts on p11. CS PhD programs are the most selective in the nation. LACs are disproportionately represented. Purdue is not in the top 100. Sure, if you want to do basic sw development, you don’t a PhD, but that misses the point that actual computer science programs look for the best undergrads, and LAC programs punch above their weight. That’s of course a benefit even to the students who don’t intend to pursue PhDs.

https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/institutional-effectiveness-research-assessment/Doct%20Rates%20Rankings%20by%20Broad%20Disc%20Fields.pdf

CS PhD programs are mostly foreigners. American students generally find the opportunity cost of foregoing 5ish years of lucrative employment is too high.

According to Payscale PhD earners average 40% more. Even if it’s half that number, they come out ahead without even counting stipends (~40k.) But that’s beside the point that the programs will pick the best applicants.

No, they are not mostly foreigners, but that also would be beside the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top three SLACs are:

Harvey Mudd
Grinnell
Pomona

Honorable mentions:
Davidson
Carleton
Middleburry

How easy/difficult is to get CS in these?

Getting admission into these colleges for sure is not easy. Look at their acceptance rates:

Harvey Mudd - 13%
Grinnell - 13%
Pomona - 7%
Davidson - 14%
Carleton - 22%
Middleburry - 10%

Not only getting into these colleges is tough, they have very low enrolment in CS. Mudd has only 48, Grinnell 54, Pomona 33..

Not sure whether its a good idea to chase CS a LAC. With 476 enrolment, Isn't Purdue way better than these LACs?

Why waste time and effort at these LACs?

CS table starts on p11. CS PhD programs are the most selective in the nation. LACs are disproportionately represented. Purdue is not in the top 100. Sure, if you want to do basic sw development, you don’t a PhD, but that misses the point that actual computer science programs look for the best undergrads, and LAC programs punch above their weight. That’s of course a benefit even to the students who don’t intend to pursue PhDs.

https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/institutional-effectiveness-research-assessment/Doct%20Rates%20Rankings%20by%20Broad%20Disc%20Fields.pdf

CS PhD programs are mostly foreigners. American students generally find the opportunity cost of foregoing 5ish years of lucrative employment is too high.

According to Payscale PhD earners average 40% more. Even if it’s half that number, they come out ahead without even counting stipends (~40k.) But that’s beside the point that the programs will pick the best applicants.

No, they are not mostly foreigners, but that also would be beside the point.

https://www.dice.com/career-advice/how-many-computer-science-grad-students-are-international

Yes, CS PhD students are overwhelmingly international. I.e. foreigners.

If the earnings premium you cite is so real, why do American computer scientists mostly get by with just a bachelors?

[Anonymous]

Maybe look at brandies.

[Anonymous]

So at Harvey Mudd there are about 18 profs (quoted earlier in thread) teaching approx 100 CS students (400 in all 4 years)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top three SLACs are:

Harvey Mudd
Grinnell
Pomona

Honorable mentions:
Davidson
Carleton
Middleburry

How easy/difficult is to get CS in these?

Getting admission into these colleges for sure is not easy. Look at their acceptance rates:

Harvey Mudd - 13%
Grinnell - 13%
Pomona - 7%
Davidson - 14%
Carleton - 22%
Middleburry - 10%

Not only getting into these colleges is tough, they have very low enrolment in CS. Mudd has only 48, Grinnell 54, Pomona 33..

Not sure whether its a good idea to chase CS a LAC. With 476 enrolment, Isn't Purdue way better than these LACs?

Why waste time and effort at these LACs?

CS table starts on p11. CS PhD programs are the most selective in the nation. LACs are disproportionately represented. Purdue is not in the top 100. Sure, if you want to do basic sw development, you don’t a PhD, but that misses the point that actual computer science programs look for the best undergrads, and LAC programs punch above their weight. That’s of course a benefit even to the students who don’t intend to pursue PhDs.

https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/institutional-effectiveness-research-assessment/Doct%20Rates%20Rankings%20by%20Broad%20Disc%20Fields.pdf

CS PhD programs are mostly foreigners. American students generally find the opportunity cost of foregoing 5ish years of lucrative employment is too high.

According to Payscale PhD earners average 40% more. Even if it’s half that number, they come out ahead without even counting stipends (~40k.) But that’s beside the point that the programs will pick the best applicants.

No, they are not mostly foreigners, but that also would be beside the point.

https://www.dice.com/career-advice/how-many-computer-science-grad-students-are-international

Yes, CS PhD students are overwhelmingly international. I.e. foreigners.

If the earnings premium you cite is so real, why do American computer scientists mostly get by with just a bachelors?

The link you shared was not specific to PhDs, but yes in the last couple decades visa holders have overtaken US citizens for earning CS PhDs (59%, not 72%; see below link). That isn’t a good argument for why US kids shouldn’t consider CS PhD, it’s actually the opposite.

You don’t know more people earning CS PhDs because the programs have very limited seats which the very best students in the world are competing for.

(As an aside, it’s not common for someone who gets only a bachelor’s degree in CS to end up doing actual computer science; they are more likely to be involved with some stage of the software engineering lifecycle.)

https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsb20223/international-s-e-higher-education

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So at Harvey Mudd there are about 18 profs (quoted earlier in thread) teaching approx 100 CS students (400 in all 4 years)?

Based on their CDS, the number of CS majors graduating in a year is more like 55, so ~220 if including all grade levels and those who haven’t declared. Of course those 220 don’t just take CS classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top three SLACs are:

Harvey Mudd
Grinnell
Pomona

Honorable mentions:
Davidson
Carleton
Middleburry

How easy/difficult is to get CS in these?

Getting admission into these colleges for sure is not easy. Look at their acceptance rates:

Harvey Mudd - 13%
Grinnell - 13%
Pomona - 7%
Davidson - 14%
Carleton - 22%
Middleburry - 10%

Not only getting into these colleges is tough, they have very low enrolment in CS. Mudd has only 48, Grinnell 54, Pomona 33..

Not sure whether its a good idea to chase CS a LAC. With 476 enrolment, Isn't Purdue way better than these LACs?

Why waste time and effort at these LACs?

CS table starts on p11. CS PhD programs are the most selective in the nation. LACs are disproportionately represented. Purdue is not in the top 100. Sure, if you want to do basic sw development, you don’t a PhD, but that misses the point that actual computer science programs look for the best undergrads, and LAC programs punch above their weight. That’s of course a benefit even to the students who don’t intend to pursue PhDs.

https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/institutional-effectiveness-research-assessment/Doct%20Rates%20Rankings%20by%20Broad%20Disc%20Fields.pdf

CS PhD programs are mostly foreigners. American students generally find the opportunity cost of foregoing 5ish years of lucrative employment is too high.

According to Payscale PhD earners average 40% more. Even if it’s half that number, they come out ahead without even counting stipends (~40k.) But that’s beside the point that the programs will pick the best applicants.

No, they are not mostly foreigners, but that also would be beside the point.

https://www.dice.com/career-advice/how-many-computer-science-grad-students-are-international

Yes, CS PhD students are overwhelmingly international. I.e. foreigners.

If the earnings premium you cite is so real, why do American computer scientists mostly get by with just a bachelors?

The link you shared was not specific to PhDs, but yes in the last couple decades visa holders have overtaken US citizens for earning CS PhDs (59%, not 72%; see below link). That isn’t a good argument for why US kids shouldn’t consider CS PhD, it’s actually the opposite.

You don’t know more people earning CS PhDs because the programs have very limited seats which the very best students in the world are competing for.

(As an aside, it’s not common for someone who gets only a bachelor’s degree in CS to end up doing actual computer science; they are more likely to be involved with some stage of the software engineering lifecycle.)

https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsb20223/international-s-e-higher-education

Thank you for graciously conceding my point in the booked section.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So at Harvey Mudd there are about 18 profs (quoted earlier in thread) teaching approx 100 CS students (400 in all 4 years)?

Based on their CDS, the number of CS majors graduating in a year is more like 55, so ~220 if including all grade levels and those who haven’t declared. Of course those 220 don’t just take CS classes.

+ everyone whose doing the joint cs majors. Your numbers are off: https://www.hmc.edu/institutional-research/institutional-statistics/institutional-statistics-graduates-and-alumni/majors-by-class-year/

[Anonymous]

Regarding the number of PhD students from other countries, how many undergraduate students in China and India for instance receive a CS degree relative to US? If that number dwarfs US undergraduate CS degrees it makes sense there would be more people from those countries in US PhD programs.

Perhaps we should be opening more doors for US students to enter CS programs and then go on to PhD programs? There seems certainly demand given admission rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Regarding the number of PhD students from other countries, how many undergraduate students in China and India for instance receive a CS degree relative to US? If that number dwarfs US undergraduate CS degrees it makes sense there would be more people from those countries in US PhD programs.

Perhaps we should be opening more doors for US students to enter CS programs and then go on to PhD programs? There seems certainly demand given admission rates.

Many top cs students in the US can make a nice sum going into quant or chilling in a software engineering gig, rather than committing to a PhD.

[Anonymous]

Nevertheless, there is clearly demand for studying CS. Why wouldn’t US programs expand?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top three SLACs are:

Harvey Mudd
Grinnell
Pomona

Honorable mentions:
Davidson
Carleton
Middleburry

How easy/difficult is to get CS in these?

Getting admission into these colleges for sure is not easy. Look at their acceptance rates:

Harvey Mudd - 13%
Grinnell - 13%
Pomona - 7%
Davidson - 14%
Carleton - 22%
Middleburry - 10%

Not only getting into these colleges is tough, they have very low enrolment in CS. Mudd has only 48, Grinnell 54, Pomona 33..

Not sure whether its a good idea to chase CS a LAC. With 476 enrolment, Isn't Purdue way better than these LACs?

Why waste time and effort at these LACs?

Where did you get these numbers? Pomona currently has 80 declared seniors for CS.

These are graduating students.

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=grinnell&s=all&id=153384#programs