Did Covid disrupt the parent volunteer pipeline

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.

Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.

And I'd add, unoften unnecessary roles too that feel made up at times. if a volunteer wants to tell the community that we "need" to have this fesitval and is going to run it, that's fine, but don't asume we all agree with "need"

Exactly. And there seems to be an attitude in here that some people owe it to others to put on an event because other kids “need” it. The other parents don’t have any skin in the game but are able to show up for 2 hours to have fun with their own families and for this reason, other people need to donate large amounts of their own personal time and often money to make this happen. Why exactly? I’d like to enjoy the events with my family too, but I’m often working. If another parent can show up for 2 hours then they too can help out for an hour to make it a success. Otherwise, what’s the point? Does anyone really need this fall festival, spring fling, fun fest, put on by a small amount of volunteers who feel put upon and not appreciated? Hardly anyone ever says “thanks!” There’s usually just input about how it could have been better or what was lacking.

Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community because we all live here/go to this school/are part of this local youth club" that comes from volunteer run organizations. It means fewer of the all important weak ties people need. But all everyone sees is the hour taken to put on the Fun Fest.

Obviously sometimes Pinterest Parents go overboard with tiny details - my kid really doesn't care if the donut holes for the winter class party look like snowmen or not but I know the picture looked cute on your Instagram. But the broad fact of these events really is important. We have to fight against the loneliness epidemic somehow, and I'd argue these free labor driven volunteering events are one way people can do it. Meet other people you wouldn't normally hang out with, provide something for your community, get a sense of a job well done (yeah, even if the freeloading parents are annoying complainers), give your kids another chance to see that kid from class that just maybe they might be friends with.

I'm so glad that we can pay for enrichment and for sports clubs because our local non-profit league is almost hilariously cliquish

Because that's how they make it fun. Also because they have been doing this for a while and have developed a decided non-trust in humanity thanks to all the things they've seen pulled. Does it justify the behavior? Probably not, but it does explain it.

Running a local non-profit league is one of the most thankless tasks in the universe. Larla needs to be with 3 best friends. Friend 1 can only practice Monday, friend 2 can only practice Tuesday, and friend 3 can practice any day but has specifically requested to never been on a team with Larla again. Larla herself can only practice on Thursday and she wants Coach A whose practice night is Wednesday. Dad never responds when you ask which of the special requests you should accommodate, but the minute you release teams Dad sends a ragey email to the league president wondering why you couldn't read his mind and put Larla on that other team. Multiply that by at least 5 for each age division. Then add in the people demanding a late add because they can't get their act together, the coaches who act like total jerks to volunteer referees (see the whole losing trust in humanity above) or parents, dealing with a recalcitrant county that wants to demand you do their job for them on maintaining facilities, and so much more. People who run non-profit leagues have the most thankless job in the world - yes, even worse than teachers. Nobody has "Thank Your Local Rec League Board Member" week.

(1) The key to running a rec league or any kind of kid activity is to *not entertain a single one of those special requests from parents.* Have a system for assigning teams and and practice dates and fields and stick to it. If people complain refer them to the clear procedures for the whole thing that are posted to the website and distributed to all parents in print and via email. If a dad sends a ragey email do not reply except maybe to say "Here's a refreshed link to the procedure for sign ups and listing team preferences. Also in the future we will not be responding to emails that use profanity or namecalling or otherwise disrespect the UNPAID volunteers who run this league. Thank you for your interest and participation and here's to a great season." Do this for a few seasons and you will discover people get nicer and obnoxious people calm down or drop out. Be clear and consistent. Be fair. Also: It's actually fine for kids to be on teams without their best friends and perhaps even preferable for all involved.

(2) Where many rec leagues go wrong is that the parents who get involved do so at least in part to ensure THEIR special requests are observed. Thus the cliqueiness the PP observed. I have very little sympathy who are upset by everyone trying to game the system when they have already rigged the system for themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.

Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.

And I'd add, unoften unnecessary roles too that feel made up at times. if a volunteer wants to tell the community that we "need" to have this fesitval and is going to run it, that's fine, but don't asume we all agree with "need"

Exactly. And there seems to be an attitude in here that some people owe it to others to put on an event because other kids “need” it. The other parents don’t have any skin in the game but are able to show up for 2 hours to have fun with their own families and for this reason, other people need to donate large amounts of their own personal time and often money to make this happen. Why exactly? I’d like to enjoy the events with my family too, but I’m often working. If another parent can show up for 2 hours then they too can help out for an hour to make it a success. Otherwise, what’s the point? Does anyone really need this fall festival, spring fling, fun fest, put on by a small amount of volunteers who feel put upon and not appreciated? Hardly anyone ever says “thanks!” There’s usually just input about how it could have been better or what was lacking.

Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community because we all live here/go to this school/are part of this local youth club" that comes from volunteer run organizations. It means fewer of the all important weak ties people need. But all everyone sees is the hour taken to put on the Fun Fest.

Obviously sometimes Pinterest Parents go overboard with tiny details - my kid really doesn't care if the donut holes for the winter class party look like snowmen or not but I know the picture looked cute on your Instagram. But the broad fact of these events really is important. We have to fight against the loneliness epidemic somehow, and I'd argue these free labor driven volunteering events are one way people can do it. Meet other people you wouldn't normally hang out with, provide something for your community, get a sense of a job well done (yeah, even if the freeloading parents are annoying complainers), give your kids another chance to see that kid from class that just maybe they might be friends with.

But if you’ve ever organized the Fun Fest you see the dark side of how many hours it takes to pull off vs the enjoyment given. The same people doing the set up, running the show, are also the people doing the clean up. Not to mention the hours involved in planning, securing vendors, getting the decorations, organizing food, etc. Just so other people can swoop in for an hour or two and “feel like a community”. To the people putting on the show it’s a pretty poor return on investment. Their weekends are precious too and these types of things no longer feel worth it. There’s not really a sense of “we’re all in this together” when such a small number of people do the heavy lifting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.

Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.

And I'd add, unoften unnecessary roles too that feel made up at times. if a volunteer wants to tell the community that we "need" to have this fesitval and is going to run it, that's fine, but don't asume we all agree with "need"

Exactly. And there seems to be an attitude in here that some people owe it to others to put on an event because other kids “need” it. The other parents don’t have any skin in the game but are able to show up for 2 hours to have fun with their own families and for this reason, other people need to donate large amounts of their own personal time and often money to make this happen. Why exactly? I’d like to enjoy the events with my family too, but I’m often working. If another parent can show up for 2 hours then they too can help out for an hour to make it a success. Otherwise, what’s the point? Does anyone really need this fall festival, spring fling, fun fest, put on by a small amount of volunteers who feel put upon and not appreciated? Hardly anyone ever says “thanks!” There’s usually just input about how it could have been better or what was lacking.

Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community because we all live here/go to this school/are part of this local youth club" that comes from volunteer run organizations. It means fewer of the all important weak ties people need. But all everyone sees is the hour taken to put on the Fun Fest.

Obviously sometimes Pinterest Parents go overboard with tiny details - my kid really doesn't care if the donut holes for the winter class party look like snowmen or not but I know the picture looked cute on your Instagram. But the broad fact of these events really is important. We have to fight against the loneliness epidemic somehow, and I'd argue these free labor driven volunteering events are one way people can do it. Meet other people you wouldn't normally hang out with, provide something for your community, get a sense of a job well done (yeah, even if the freeloading parents are annoying complainers), give your kids another chance to see that kid from class that just maybe they might be friends with.

But if you’ve ever organized the Fun Fest you see the dark side of how many hours it takes to pull off vs the enjoyment given. The same people doing the set up, running the show, are also the people doing the clean up. Not to mention the hours involved in planning, securing vendors, getting the decorations, organizing food, etc. Just so other people can swoop in for an hour or two and “feel like a community”. To the people putting on the show it’s a pretty poor return on investment. Their weekends are precious too and these types of things no longer feel worth it. There’s not really a sense of “we’re all in this together” when such a small number of people do the heavy lifting.

Then stop doing it if you resent it! I've helped organize big events sometimes, volunteered for multiple hours but not in a planning role, volunteered for an hour at the event only sometimes, and simply attended other times. I don't really see the organizers at our school complaining it's not worth it. On the contrary, they tend to be super high energy and love it. I do tell them thanks, however.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve noticed with the schools, in particular, they have been very reluctant to allow parents/volunteers back in the buildings. Maybe they got used to just doing it all themselves, maybe they cut way back on programs and don’t need as many parent volunteers other than for the 1-2 field trips a year, maybe they’re holding on to old COVID protocols. Maybe a combination of all of these and more. But it’s only been this school year so far that our PTA has even asked for room parents for all the grades, and that they’ve planned a full slate of activities. Last year they had activities (both paid after school and free or cheap, like a Trunk or Treat and a Bingo night), but the teachers and the PTA had nothing for classroom volunteers. Again, apart from field trip chaperones. People get out of the practice of giving their time and then they don’t want to do it. Or the schools and organizations make them feel unwelcomed. We have a PTA clique for sure and they are actually all pretty nice, but they’re very used to working together with just the same 6-8 moms and there’s not a lot of use for “outsiders” and occasional volunteers.

I suspect admin often thinks these parents need to volunteer is more about the parents than the kids' needs. In other words, they want the parents to feel involved but don't think they add enough to make it worth the extra work.

And what I'd argue to those administrators is that they're going to lose the things they really want from parents (ex: being supportive of teachers) if they don't bring them into the community. Shooting themselves in the foot to save work today.

maybe - but it still remains that the volunteering isn't what the volunteers think it's about. which may be fine for those volunteers and fine or not for the admis, but doesn't mean i want to use my time volunteering

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.

Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.

And I'd add, unoften unnecessary roles too that feel made up at times. if a volunteer wants to tell the community that we "need" to have this fesitval and is going to run it, that's fine, but don't asume we all agree with "need"

Exactly. And there seems to be an attitude in here that some people owe it to others to put on an event because other kids “need” it. The other parents don’t have any skin in the game but are able to show up for 2 hours to have fun with their own families and for this reason, other people need to donate large amounts of their own personal time and often money to make this happen. Why exactly? I’d like to enjoy the events with my family too, but I’m often working. If another parent can show up for 2 hours then they too can help out for an hour to make it a success. Otherwise, what’s the point? Does anyone really need this fall festival, spring fling, fun fest, put on by a small amount of volunteers who feel put upon and not appreciated? Hardly anyone ever says “thanks!” There’s usually just input about how it could have been better or what was lacking.

Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community because we all live here/go to this school/are part of this local youth club" that comes from volunteer run organizations. It means fewer of the all important weak ties people need. But all everyone sees is the hour taken to put on the Fun Fest.

Obviously sometimes Pinterest Parents go overboard with tiny details - my kid really doesn't care if the donut holes for the winter class party look like snowmen or not but I know the picture looked cute on your Instagram. But the broad fact of these events really is important. We have to fight against the loneliness epidemic somehow, and I'd argue these free labor driven volunteering events are one way people can do it. Meet other people you wouldn't normally hang out with, provide something for your community, get a sense of a job well done (yeah, even if the freeloading parents are annoying complainers), give your kids another chance to see that kid from class that just maybe they might be friends with.

But if you’ve ever organized the Fun Fest you see the dark side of how many hours it takes to pull off vs the enjoyment given. The same people doing the set up, running the show, are also the people doing the clean up. Not to mention the hours involved in planning, securing vendors, getting the decorations, organizing food, etc. Just so other people can swoop in for an hour or two and “feel like a community”. To the people putting on the show it’s a pretty poor return on investment. Their weekends are precious too and these types of things no longer feel worth it. There’s not really a sense of “we’re all in this together” when such a small number of people do the heavy lifting.

Then stop doing it if you resent it! I've helped organize big events sometimes, volunteered for multiple hours but not in a planning role, volunteered for an hour at the event only sometimes, and simply attended other times. I don't really see the organizers at our school complaining it's not worth it. On the contrary, they tend to be super high energy and love it. I do tell them thanks, however.

Already stopped. Which goes back to the point of “where are the volunteers?”. People have noticed others are no longer stepping up. You’re probably not close enough to the source to know how people really feel about these events. They almost always say “never again” but when the time comes to start planning next year, arm’s get twisted. The break during the Covid times gave people a lot of cover to not go back to the old ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.

Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.

And I'd add, unoften unnecessary roles too that feel made up at times. if a volunteer wants to tell the community that we "need" to have this fesitval and is going to run it, that's fine, but don't asume we all agree with "need"

Exactly. And there seems to be an attitude in here that some people owe it to others to put on an event because other kids “need” it. The other parents don’t have any skin in the game but are able to show up for 2 hours to have fun with their own families and for this reason, other people need to donate large amounts of their own personal time and often money to make this happen. Why exactly? I’d like to enjoy the events with my family too, but I’m often working. If another parent can show up for 2 hours then they too can help out for an hour to make it a success. Otherwise, what’s the point? Does anyone really need this fall festival, spring fling, fun fest, put on by a small amount of volunteers who feel put upon and not appreciated? Hardly anyone ever says “thanks!” There’s usually just input about how it could have been better or what was lacking.

Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community because we all live here/go to this school/are part of this local youth club" that comes from volunteer run organizations. It means fewer of the all important weak ties people need. But all everyone sees is the hour taken to put on the Fun Fest.

Obviously sometimes Pinterest Parents go overboard with tiny details - my kid really doesn't care if the donut holes for the winter class party look like snowmen or not but I know the picture looked cute on your Instagram. But the broad fact of these events really is important. We have to fight against the loneliness epidemic somehow, and I'd argue these free labor driven volunteering events are one way people can do it. Meet other people you wouldn't normally hang out with, provide something for your community, get a sense of a job well done (yeah, even if the freeloading parents are annoying complainers), give your kids another chance to see that kid from class that just maybe they might be friends with.

But if you’ve ever organized the Fun Fest you see the dark side of how many hours it takes to pull off vs the enjoyment given. The same people doing the set up, running the show, are also the people doing the clean up. Not to mention the hours involved in planning, securing vendors, getting the decorations, organizing food, etc. Just so other people can swoop in for an hour or two and “feel like a community”. To the people putting on the show it’s a pretty poor return on investment. Their weekends are precious too and these types of things no longer feel worth it. There’s not really a sense of “we’re all in this together” when such a small number of people do the heavy lifting.

But do you hear what some of us are saying? We will come out of respect (and yes, because it's fun) but we don't necessarily think its' worth your time, either -- but you seem to. This whole martyr, "it takes a village and our KIDS NEED THIS" -- many of us don't agree with the latter in caps

[Anonymous]

Op here. It’s too bad that so many people seem to have had such a bad experience volunteering. I’ve loved all my volunteer experiences, expanded my social circle and I’ve made some good friends. By far the best part of volunteering has been the deeper understanding of the world my kid inhabits.

I have largely avoided PTA duty. My experience is that certain type of person gravitates to leadship in that sort of activity.

Now that I’m comming to the end of my parenting journey I would say that I appreciate even the most frustrating moments (I once had a dad insist that his son be on the field for an entire game because they skipped the game the week before). They have become some of my funniest stories.

It would be a shame if the next generation of kids don’t get to have the same experiences mine did and their teachers don’t get the same level of support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.

Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.

And I'd add, unoften unnecessary roles too that feel made up at times. if a volunteer wants to tell the community that we "need" to have this fesitval and is going to run it, that's fine, but don't asume we all agree with "need"

Exactly. And there seems to be an attitude in here that some people owe it to others to put on an event because other kids “need” it. The other parents don’t have any skin in the game but are able to show up for 2 hours to have fun with their own families and for this reason, other people need to donate large amounts of their own personal time and often money to make this happen. Why exactly? I’d like to enjoy the events with my family too, but I’m often working. If another parent can show up for 2 hours then they too can help out for an hour to make it a success. Otherwise, what’s the point? Does anyone really need this fall festival, spring fling, fun fest, put on by a small amount of volunteers who feel put upon and not appreciated? Hardly anyone ever says “thanks!” There’s usually just input about how it could have been better or what was lacking.

Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community because we all live here/go to this school/are part of this local youth club" that comes from volunteer run organizations. It means fewer of the all important weak ties people need. But all everyone sees is the hour taken to put on the Fun Fest.

Obviously sometimes Pinterest Parents go overboard with tiny details - my kid really doesn't care if the donut holes for the winter class party look like snowmen or not but I know the picture looked cute on your Instagram. But the broad fact of these events really is important. We have to fight against the loneliness epidemic somehow, and I'd argue these free labor driven volunteering events are one way people can do it. Meet other people you wouldn't normally hang out with, provide something for your community, get a sense of a job well done (yeah, even if the freeloading parents are annoying complainers), give your kids another chance to see that kid from class that just maybe they might be friends with.

But if you’ve ever organized the Fun Fest you see the dark side of how many hours it takes to pull off vs the enjoyment given. The same people doing the set up, running the show, are also the people doing the clean up. Not to mention the hours involved in planning, securing vendors, getting the decorations, organizing food, etc. Just so other people can swoop in for an hour or two and “feel like a community”. To the people putting on the show it’s a pretty poor return on investment. Their weekends are precious too and these types of things no longer feel worth it. There’s not really a sense of “we’re all in this together” when such a small number of people do the heavy lifting.

But do you hear what some of us are saying? We will come out of respect (and yes, because it's fun) but we don't necessarily think its' worth your time, either -- but you seem to. This whole martyr, "it takes a village and our KIDS NEED THIS" -- many of us don't agree with the latter in caps

I absolutely don’t think our kids NEED this which is why I won’t do it anymore. Someone else above is arguing what a travesty it is that people only want to do pay to play activities and that leaves out other kids from the former community events OTHER parents put in the blood, sweat, and tears to pull off. No, I don’t think those kids or any of them need these community events.

Specifically I’m talking about this PP: “ Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community”

I don’t think other families owe those kids events or need to martyr themselves to pull off for sake of community when people like you say “we’ll come out of respect” which goes to show how little most people value these events.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.

Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.

And I'd add, unoften unnecessary roles too that feel made up at times. if a volunteer wants to tell the community that we "need" to have this fesitval and is going to run it, that's fine, but don't asume we all agree with "need"

Exactly. And there seems to be an attitude in here that some people owe it to others to put on an event because other kids “need” it. The other parents don’t have any skin in the game but are able to show up for 2 hours to have fun with their own families and for this reason, other people need to donate large amounts of their own personal time and often money to make this happen. Why exactly? I’d like to enjoy the events with my family too, but I’m often working. If another parent can show up for 2 hours then they too can help out for an hour to make it a success. Otherwise, what’s the point? Does anyone really need this fall festival, spring fling, fun fest, put on by a small amount of volunteers who feel put upon and not appreciated? Hardly anyone ever says “thanks!” There’s usually just input about how it could have been better or what was lacking.

Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community because we all live here/go to this school/are part of this local youth club" that comes from volunteer run organizations. It means fewer of the all important weak ties people need. But all everyone sees is the hour taken to put on the Fun Fest.

Obviously sometimes Pinterest Parents go overboard with tiny details - my kid really doesn't care if the donut holes for the winter class party look like snowmen or not but I know the picture looked cute on your Instagram. But the broad fact of these events really is important. We have to fight against the loneliness epidemic somehow, and I'd argue these free labor driven volunteering events are one way people can do it. Meet other people you wouldn't normally hang out with, provide something for your community, get a sense of a job well done (yeah, even if the freeloading parents are annoying complainers), give your kids another chance to see that kid from class that just maybe they might be friends with.

But if you’ve ever organized the Fun Fest you see the dark side of how many hours it takes to pull off vs the enjoyment given. The same people doing the set up, running the show, are also the people doing the clean up. Not to mention the hours involved in planning, securing vendors, getting the decorations, organizing food, etc. Just so other people can swoop in for an hour or two and “feel like a community”. To the people putting on the show it’s a pretty poor return on investment. Their weekends are precious too and these types of things no longer feel worth it. There’s not really a sense of “we’re all in this together” when such a small number of people do the heavy lifting.

But do you hear what some of us are saying? We will come out of respect (and yes, because it's fun) but we don't necessarily think its' worth your time, either -- but you seem to. This whole martyr, "it takes a village and our KIDS NEED THIS" -- many of us don't agree with the latter in caps

I absolutely don’t think our kids NEED this which is why I won’t do it anymore. Someone else above is arguing what a travesty it is that people only want to do pay to play activities and that leaves out other kids from the former community events OTHER parents put in the blood, sweat, and tears to pull off. No, I don’t think those kids or any of them need these community events.

Specifically I’m talking about this PP: “ Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community”

I don’t think other families owe those kids events or need to martyr themselves to pull off for sake of community when people like you say “we’ll come out of respect” which goes to show how little most people value these events.

yeah- and I don't mean to be rude, but it's just that it seems like these mothers COULD save themselves time. i am sorry that people think it's sad by the truth is, if it's not worth my time, i don't think it's fair to say it's worth someone else's to serve me. and i simply don't have the time. i am sure JD and his fans will come out and say it's my job as a woman to make it , but it's not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.

Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.

And I'd add, unoften unnecessary roles too that feel made up at times. if a volunteer wants to tell the community that we "need" to have this fesitval and is going to run it, that's fine, but don't asume we all agree with "need"

Exactly. And there seems to be an attitude in here that some people owe it to others to put on an event because other kids “need” it. The other parents don’t have any skin in the game but are able to show up for 2 hours to have fun with their own families and for this reason, other people need to donate large amounts of their own personal time and often money to make this happen. Why exactly? I’d like to enjoy the events with my family too, but I’m often working. If another parent can show up for 2 hours then they too can help out for an hour to make it a success. Otherwise, what’s the point? Does anyone really need this fall festival, spring fling, fun fest, put on by a small amount of volunteers who feel put upon and not appreciated? Hardly anyone ever says “thanks!” There’s usually just input about how it could have been better or what was lacking.

Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community because we all live here/go to this school/are part of this local youth club" that comes from volunteer run organizations. It means fewer of the all important weak ties people need. But all everyone sees is the hour taken to put on the Fun Fest.

Obviously sometimes Pinterest Parents go overboard with tiny details - my kid really doesn't care if the donut holes for the winter class party look like snowmen or not but I know the picture looked cute on your Instagram. But the broad fact of these events really is important. We have to fight against the loneliness epidemic somehow, and I'd argue these free labor driven volunteering events are one way people can do it. Meet other people you wouldn't normally hang out with, provide something for your community, get a sense of a job well done (yeah, even if the freeloading parents are annoying complainers), give your kids another chance to see that kid from class that just maybe they might be friends with.

I'm so glad that we can pay for enrichment and for sports clubs because our local non-profit league is almost hilariously cliquish

Because that's how they make it fun. Also because they have been doing this for a while and have developed a decided non-trust in humanity thanks to all the things they've seen pulled. Does it justify the behavior? Probably not, but it does explain it.

Running a local non-profit league is one of the most thankless tasks in the universe. Larla needs to be with 3 best friends. Friend 1 can only practice Monday, friend 2 can only practice Tuesday, and friend 3 can practice any day but has specifically requested to never been on a team with Larla again. Larla herself can only practice on Thursday and she wants Coach A whose practice night is Wednesday. Dad never responds when you ask which of the special requests you should accommodate, but the minute you release teams Dad sends a ragey email to the league president wondering why you couldn't read his mind and put Larla on that other team. Multiply that by at least 5 for each age division. Then add in the people demanding a late add because they can't get their act together, the coaches who act like total jerks to volunteer referees (see the whole losing trust in humanity above) or parents, dealing with a recalcitrant county that wants to demand you do their job for them on maintaining facilities, and so much more. People who run non-profit leagues have the most thankless job in the world - yes, even worse than teachers. Nobody has "Thank Your Local Rec League Board Member" week.

+ 1 million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.

Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.

And I'd add, unoften unnecessary roles too that feel made up at times. if a volunteer wants to tell the community that we "need" to have this fesitval and is going to run it, that's fine, but don't asume we all agree with "need"

Exactly. And there seems to be an attitude in here that some people owe it to others to put on an event because other kids “need” it. The other parents don’t have any skin in the game but are able to show up for 2 hours to have fun with their own families and for this reason, other people need to donate large amounts of their own personal time and often money to make this happen. Why exactly? I’d like to enjoy the events with my family too, but I’m often working. If another parent can show up for 2 hours then they too can help out for an hour to make it a success. Otherwise, what’s the point? Does anyone really need this fall festival, spring fling, fun fest, put on by a small amount of volunteers who feel put upon and not appreciated? Hardly anyone ever says “thanks!” There’s usually just input about how it could have been better or what was lacking.

Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community because we all live here/go to this school/are part of this local youth club" that comes from volunteer run organizations. It means fewer of the all important weak ties people need. But all everyone sees is the hour taken to put on the Fun Fest.

Obviously sometimes Pinterest Parents go overboard with tiny details - my kid really doesn't care if the donut holes for the winter class party look like snowmen or not but I know the picture looked cute on your Instagram. But the broad fact of these events really is important. We have to fight against the loneliness epidemic somehow, and I'd argue these free labor driven volunteering events are one way people can do it. Meet other people you wouldn't normally hang out with, provide something for your community, get a sense of a job well done (yeah, even if the freeloading parents are annoying complainers), give your kids another chance to see that kid from class that just maybe they might be friends with.

But if you’ve ever organized the Fun Fest you see the dark side of how many hours it takes to pull off vs the enjoyment given. The same people doing the set up, running the show, are also the people doing the clean up. Not to mention the hours involved in planning, securing vendors, getting the decorations, organizing food, etc. Just so other people can swoop in for an hour or two and “feel like a community”. To the people putting on the show it’s a pretty poor return on investment. Their weekends are precious too and these types of things no longer feel worth it. There’s not really a sense of “we’re all in this together” when such a small number of people do the heavy lifting.

But do you hear what some of us are saying? We will come out of respect (and yes, because it's fun) but we don't necessarily think its' worth your time, either -- but you seem to. This whole martyr, "it takes a village and our KIDS NEED THIS" -- many of us don't agree with the latter in caps

I absolutely don’t think our kids NEED this which is why I won’t do it anymore. Someone else above is arguing what a travesty it is that people only want to do pay to play activities and that leaves out other kids from the former community events OTHER parents put in the blood, sweat, and tears to pull off. No, I don’t think those kids or any of them need these community events.

Specifically I’m talking about this PP: “ Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community”

I don’t think other families owe those kids events or need to martyr themselves to pull off for sake of community when people like you say “we’ll come out of respect” which goes to show how little most people value these events.

yeah- and I don't mean to be rude, but it's just that it seems like these mothers COULD save themselves time. i am sorry that people think it's sad by the truth is, if it's not worth my time, i don't think it's fair to say it's worth someone else's to serve me. and i simply don't have the time. i am sure JD and his fans will come out and say it's my job as a woman to make it , but it's not.

I’m sure if these mothers were better somehow they could pull off the perfect event and save themselves time (which is part of the negative attitude that helped kill these events), but where things are today they’re just not bothering as much at all. People don’t seem to appreciate the efforts, they can devote time elsewhere, or spend more time on the things that bring them more joy. So we’ll see fewer of these things in the future, not more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.

Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.

And I'd add, unoften unnecessary roles too that feel made up at times. if a volunteer wants to tell the community that we "need" to have this fesitval and is going to run it, that's fine, but don't asume we all agree with "need"

Exactly. And there seems to be an attitude in here that some people owe it to others to put on an event because other kids “need” it. The other parents don’t have any skin in the game but are able to show up for 2 hours to have fun with their own families and for this reason, other people need to donate large amounts of their own personal time and often money to make this happen. Why exactly? I’d like to enjoy the events with my family too, but I’m often working. If another parent can show up for 2 hours then they too can help out for an hour to make it a success. Otherwise, what’s the point? Does anyone really need this fall festival, spring fling, fun fest, put on by a small amount of volunteers who feel put upon and not appreciated? Hardly anyone ever says “thanks!” There’s usually just input about how it could have been better or what was lacking.

Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community because we all live here/go to this school/are part of this local youth club" that comes from volunteer run organizations. It means fewer of the all important weak ties people need. But all everyone sees is the hour taken to put on the Fun Fest.

Obviously sometimes Pinterest Parents go overboard with tiny details - my kid really doesn't care if the donut holes for the winter class party look like snowmen or not but I know the picture looked cute on your Instagram. But the broad fact of these events really is important. We have to fight against the loneliness epidemic somehow, and I'd argue these free labor driven volunteering events are one way people can do it. Meet other people you wouldn't normally hang out with, provide something for your community, get a sense of a job well done (yeah, even if the freeloading parents are annoying complainers), give your kids another chance to see that kid from class that just maybe they might be friends with.

But if you’ve ever organized the Fun Fest you see the dark side of how many hours it takes to pull off vs the enjoyment given. The same people doing the set up, running the show, are also the people doing the clean up. Not to mention the hours involved in planning, securing vendors, getting the decorations, organizing food, etc. Just so other people can swoop in for an hour or two and “feel like a community”. To the people putting on the show it’s a pretty poor return on investment. Their weekends are precious too and these types of things no longer feel worth it. There’s not really a sense of “we’re all in this together” when such a small number of people do the heavy lifting.

But do you hear what some of us are saying? We will come out of respect (and yes, because it's fun) but we don't necessarily think its' worth your time, either -- but you seem to. This whole martyr, "it takes a village and our KIDS NEED THIS" -- many of us don't agree with the latter in caps

I absolutely don’t think our kids NEED this which is why I won’t do it anymore. Someone else above is arguing what a travesty it is that people only want to do pay to play activities and that leaves out other kids from the former community events OTHER parents put in the blood, sweat, and tears to pull off. No, I don’t think those kids or any of them need these community events.

Specifically I’m talking about this PP: “ Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community”

I don’t think other families owe those kids events or need to martyr themselves to pull off for sake of community when people like you say “we’ll come out of respect” which goes to show how little most people value these events.

I don't think that poster thinking it's sad implies she's a martyr or demanding other people to be martyrs. She's just pointing out that these events offer something she values, which is being around all kinds of people, providing events for kids whose parents maybe otherwise don't have the capacity to be involved, and creating more weak ties, which may be lost if fewer people volunteer.

It seems like she thinks those benefits to her family and community outweigh the costs to her, such as hard work, people complaining, people not appreciating the events, etc. Her post was good food for thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like covid helped many of us realize what things we missed and what things we didn't. Those kind of off season things don't add value for my family, they just add pressure and business and reduce family time. So, I'm not going to volunteer to make them happen.

This, plus I think a lot of us got tired of ALWAYS being the volunteer while others sat out. I saw so many of the same faces volunteering at multiple activities when my kids were little. The volunteer model only works if work is spread around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.

Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.

And I'd add, unoften unnecessary roles too that feel made up at times. if a volunteer wants to tell the community that we "need" to have this fesitval and is going to run it, that's fine, but don't asume we all agree with "need"

Exactly. And there seems to be an attitude in here that some people owe it to others to put on an event because other kids “need” it. The other parents don’t have any skin in the game but are able to show up for 2 hours to have fun with their own families and for this reason, other people need to donate large amounts of their own personal time and often money to make this happen. Why exactly? I’d like to enjoy the events with my family too, but I’m often working. If another parent can show up for 2 hours then they too can help out for an hour to make it a success. Otherwise, what’s the point? Does anyone really need this fall festival, spring fling, fun fest, put on by a small amount of volunteers who feel put upon and not appreciated? Hardly anyone ever says “thanks!” There’s usually just input about how it could have been better or what was lacking.

Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community because we all live here/go to this school/are part of this local youth club" that comes from volunteer run organizations. It means fewer of the all important weak ties people need. But all everyone sees is the hour taken to put on the Fun Fest.

Obviously sometimes Pinterest Parents go overboard with tiny details - my kid really doesn't care if the donut holes for the winter class party look like snowmen or not but I know the picture looked cute on your Instagram. But the broad fact of these events really is important. We have to fight against the loneliness epidemic somehow, and I'd argue these free labor driven volunteering events are one way people can do it. Meet other people you wouldn't normally hang out with, provide something for your community, get a sense of a job well done (yeah, even if the freeloading parents are annoying complainers), give your kids another chance to see that kid from class that just maybe they might be friends with.

But if you’ve ever organized the Fun Fest you see the dark side of how many hours it takes to pull off vs the enjoyment given. The same people doing the set up, running the show, are also the people doing the clean up. Not to mention the hours involved in planning, securing vendors, getting the decorations, organizing food, etc. Just so other people can swoop in for an hour or two and “feel like a community”. To the people putting on the show it’s a pretty poor return on investment. Their weekends are precious too and these types of things no longer feel worth it. There’s not really a sense of “we’re all in this together” when such a small number of people do the heavy lifting.

But do you hear what some of us are saying? We will come out of respect (and yes, because it's fun) but we don't necessarily think its' worth your time, either -- but you seem to. This whole martyr, "it takes a village and our KIDS NEED THIS" -- many of us don't agree with the latter in caps

I absolutely don’t think our kids NEED this which is why I won’t do it anymore. Someone else above is arguing what a travesty it is that people only want to do pay to play activities and that leaves out other kids from the former community events OTHER parents put in the blood, sweat, and tears to pull off. No, I don’t think those kids or any of them need these community events.

Specifically I’m talking about this PP: “ Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community”

I don’t think other families owe those kids events or need to martyr themselves to pull off for sake of community when people like you say “we’ll come out of respect” which goes to show how little most people value these events.

I don't think that poster thinking it's sad implies she's a martyr or demanding other people to be martyrs. She's just pointing out that these events offer something she values, which is being around all kinds of people, providing events for kids whose parents maybe otherwise don't have the capacity to be involved, and creating more weak ties, which may be lost if fewer people volunteer.

It seems like she thinks those benefits to her family and community outweigh the costs to her, such as hard work, people complaining, people not appreciating the events, etc. Her post was good food for thought.

Then that is the perfect person to step up to be the committee chairperson to take on the planning or some type of leadership role to make it happen. I didn’t get the sense she was putting in the work.

[Anonymous]

I serve as a volunteer on the Board of a local educational non profit. I work on a committee and volunteer for periodic events. What seems to cause friction is the fact the many of the volunteers are retired and have much more time to give than the people who are still working/raising kids. It’s a catch 22 though since this organization would eventually die out without younger members stepping in, but it’s these younger members who don’t have the same amount of time to volunteer as the older ones do. The older members then sometimes express frustration with the younger members lack of availability. Not sure how to break this cycle, and it’s making me seriously reconsider my role as a working mom with young kids. At the end of the day, we’re all volunteers.