St Marys versus St Louis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The low pay is certainly an issue. But it's a tough one to solve, and it's not the only issue. My sense is that the diocese isn't getting a look at enough good candidates because they aren't casting a wide enough net or being proactive enough. There seems to be a pattern of scrambling in the summer to grab whoever stumbled upon a job listing.

The most relevant difference in parochial vs. public compensation is actually in the long-term benefits/pension etc., which young people discount heavily and probably won't stay in public school teaching long enough to collect. And the average salary difference is about 15%. The difference is even smaller for new teachers. The public school teachers' unions are very into seniority, a longer-tenured teachers get paid a lot more than starting teachers. And the unions like to be able to cite low first year salaries when demanding raises from the government.

So choosing public over parochial only gets a new teacher a few thousand extra dollars. For worse students, worse parents, worse bosses, worse colleagues, behavior problems, and an a student-unfriendly political mission (unpack privilege, close gaps, and celebrate Pride).

Some people want to be a part of that and some don't. I'm not sure there's much overlap in the applicant pools.

You sound like you have zero experience with public education in Northern Virginia

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The low pay is certainly an issue. But it's a tough one to solve, and it's not the only issue. My sense is that the diocese isn't getting a look at enough good candidates because they aren't casting a wide enough net or being proactive enough. There seems to be a pattern of scrambling in the summer to grab whoever stumbled upon a job listing.

The most relevant difference in parochial vs. public compensation is actually in the long-term benefits/pension etc., which young people discount heavily and probably won't stay in public school teaching long enough to collect. And the average salary difference is about 15%. The difference is even smaller for new teachers. The public school teachers' unions are very into seniority, a longer-tenured teachers get paid a lot more than starting teachers. And the unions like to be able to cite low first year salaries when demanding raises from the government.

So choosing public over parochial only gets a new teacher a few thousand extra dollars. For worse students, worse parents, worse bosses, worse colleagues, behavior problems, and an a student-unfriendly political mission (unpack privilege, close gaps, and celebrate Pride).

Some people want to be a part of that and some don't. I'm not sure there's much overlap in the applicant pools.

First year teachers in FCPS make 58k with a BA and 64k with a masters on a 195 day contract

https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/fy25-teacher-195-day.pdf

That's more than a few thousand extra for a first year teacher

[Anonymous]

So the population of St Marys teachers is:

1. Super Catholic and/or hates woke-ism, and therefore willing to accept lower pay compared to other alternatives in public school or independents,

or

2. Not good/credentialed enough to be hired by publics or independents, and therefore settles for St Mary’s to get more teaching experience?

That’s the candidate population they’re pulling from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did all the 8th graders get into their high school of choice? If so, what’s the problem?

I heard 15 boys are going to Gonzaga next year. It doesn’t seem like there is a problem.

The class of 2021 had over 20 boys accepted into Gonzaga. My son said he felt prepared but he also had completed Algebra before high school. I've heard the middle school has gone downhll in the last couple years.

[Anonymous]

"You sound like you'd be happier sending your kid to Trinity Christian than parochial school"

What specifically about Trinity Christian sounds like a match? I'd be interested in hearing about it.

[Anonymous]

"You sound like you have zero experience with public education in Northern Virginia"

What part of this was wrong? I'm surprised but happy to learn/be corrected.

"The most relevant difference in parochial vs. public compensation is actually in the long-term benefits/pension etc., which young people discount heavily and probably won't stay in public school teaching long enough to collect. And the average salary difference is about 15%. The difference is even smaller for new teachers. The public school teachers' unions are very into seniority, a longer-tenured teachers get paid a lot more than starting teachers. And the unions like to be able to cite low first year salaries when demanding raises from the government."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"You sound like you have zero experience with public education in Northern Virginia"

What part of this was wrong? I'm surprised but happy to learn/be corrected.

"The most relevant difference in parochial vs. public compensation is actually in the long-term benefits/pension etc., which young people discount heavily and probably won't stay in public school teaching long enough to collect. And the average salary difference is about 15%. The difference is even smaller for new teachers. The public school teachers' unions are very into seniority, a longer-tenured teachers get paid a lot more than starting teachers. And the unions like to be able to cite low first year salaries when demanding raises from the government."

First off, there has never been a union contract in FCPS, ACPS or ACCPS. Second, the salary difference is closer to 30%, more if the teacher picked up a masters

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sadly, I think they’ve resigned themselves to being mediocre. What are parents going to do? Leave for public? There are 5 families waiting in line to take their place.

No real competition or incentives to improve. So they’ll just muddle along, emphasize mass and other religious events, deprioritize academics, and tolerate poor teaching.

As long as the bulk of students get into Ireton and those who realistically want Gonzaga or Visi get into those schools, they'll be fine. I students start getting totally shut out, then things will change

Doubt that will happen as many families are legacies. Also St. Mary's families are full pay.
They are one of the largest if not the largest feeder to Ireton.
What will be telling is if numbers decline and there are fewer students applying for middle school.

[Anonymous]

We are a former St. Ann family (graduated).

I'd go with St. Louis, based on experiences of other families and visits for games, etc., because it is a little bit more down to Earth.

St. Mary has a great reputation and is in a great location, but sometimes there are "well-established" Washington families there who want people to know they are there.

St. Louis is a little more under the radar, but the same outcome. Same curriculum. Both have caring teachers and good leadership.

If it were my extended family, and they could find a spot at St. Louis, I'd say take it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are a former St. Ann family (graduated).

I'd go with St. Louis, based on experiences of other families and visits for games, etc., because it is a little bit more down to Earth.

St. Mary has a great reputation and is in a great location, but sometimes there are "well-established" Washington families there who want people to know they are there.

St. Louis is a little more under the radar, but the same outcome. Same curriculum. Both have caring teachers and good leadership.

If it were my extended family, and they could find a spot at St. Louis, I'd say take it.

Bssm parent and I have to agree with this. We act like we are one of the DC competitive private schools when its just another parish school.

[Anonymous]

I’d go St. Mary’s because it is bigger. By the standards of NOVA and DC private schools, the St. Mary’s families are pretty down to earth even if the St. Louis families are even more down to earth.

[Anonymous]

What do you want for $12k a year??? You get what you pay for…

[Anonymous]

The interesting thing is that teacher salaries aren't that different between Catholic schools and more expensive private schools.

Expensive private schools spend more on head of school salaries, facilities and grounds, marketing and admissions, and having more total teachers and therefore smaller class sizes. But they aren't spending much differently on teacher salaries. So I don't think the lower tuition is a good reason for teacher quality issues or teacher turnover issues.

(Although as one commenter pointed out, larger class sizes in parochial may increase teacher burnout, especially among less-experienced teachers.)

[Anonymous]

BSSM has a huge development, marketing, and admissions teams for a parochial school. There are 7-8 people who work for these areas at the school, which lends to a previous post about BSSM attempting to model itself as an independent school versus a parochial school under the current the administration.

[Anonymous]

That's a good thing! Development more than pays for itself, and marketing and admissions are important. Great teachers like great students. And you want families to have a good admissions experience to set a good tone for their long-term commitment to the school. They'll complain less, volunteer more, give more money, etc.

If we want great teaching and administration and continuous improvement, we *want* BSSM to think of itself as competing with independent schools to deliver the best quality education around. There's no benefit to trying to force the school to "know its place" and "stop putting on airs."

Being a parochial school is great--the religion, the mission, the support of the the diocese, the ties to the local parish and community.

But being too "parochial" in attitude (dictionary: "narrow, limited, restricted") is a problem. It leads to complacency, excuses, and a failure to address problems quickly and proactively.

BSSM has recently suffered a lot of turnover, has a shortage of highly-experienced staff and faculty, just lost the highly-regarded Assistant Principal, and apparently already had a bad year in the middle school by not having it well-staffed.

The last thing the school should do now is say, "Oh well, we're just a parochial school. Losing lots of experienced people isn't a problem, it's just one of those things that happens. We'll just list the open roles on that one website like we always do and hire whoever applies before school starts in 8 weeks."

Instead, the school should say, "Most middle schools in this area had a good 2023-24 school year and have plenty of good teachers returning for 2024-25. Most schools in this area already have a good Vice Principal in place. We don't have any of that. We are seriously behind the 8-ball and now we're scrambling (again) to just to fill vacancies. Families are paying us and relying on us. We need to be more proactive about hiring, developing, and retaining great people."

BSSM should strive to be the very best it can be, not hold itself to lower standards.