Are kids still doing it all? Rise of travel sports and scheduled kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting into a varsity team in a good high school is extremely competitive. For example for a junior to make it to varsity volleyball, they is often just one spot and there are 20 kids competing for it. I don’t know about other areas but McLean and Langley have extremely competitive teams and you really need to be excellent at your sport if you want to make it on the varsity team.

How do you define a good school? For some reason Catholic schools always come out on top. Otherwise the top schools for sports seem like random towns.

I’m not the pp but I also reside in McLean. I don’t know how our sports compare to other schools. What I do know is that a lot of kids in McLean play baseball and soccer and 100 kids may try out for ~15 spots.

I just posted that my kid is trying out for tennis and there is only one team of 16. There is no freshmen or JV team. 15 players are supposedly returning. There are other schools that may not be able to fill their tennis and golf teams.

I promise I'm not trying to minimize how challenging it is to make the team. But I will highlight that they will (should) take the best 16. And that may mean that some of those returning 15 do not make the team.

I've seen it happen when my freshman DD made the varsity softball team and a returning varsity player did not

I’m not sure what is worse - to make the team freshman/sophomore and get cut junior year or to never make the team at all.

My son tried out for travel basketball this winter and did not make it. 60 kids tried out for a handful of open spots. My friend’s son played travel basketball all through elementary and just got cut in middle school and is devastated.

I agree. I think there's something more important/bigger than just taking the best group of kids

I always feel bad for returning seniors that don't make the team

[Anonymous]

This is a function of how large the schools are are around here and how involved the parents are. I went to a sports heavy public highschool but our school had about 1200 students - my kids’ public highschool has almost 2400. the varsity basketball team in both schools takes 15 kids. The effect of those numbers are huge - in the smaller school a moderately talented moderately tall boy had a good chance at making the team. At 2400 the team can cherry pick the tallest most athletic player with deep experience. My wife went to a school so small that kids were dragooned onto teams so that they could have a team.

This reality has trickled down into youth sports causing what can only be described as a sports arms race where each family is trying to get a step on the other families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a function of how large the schools are are around here and how involved the parents are. I went to a sports heavy public highschool but our school had about 1200 students - my kids’ public highschool has almost 2400. the varsity basketball team in both schools takes 15 kids. The effect of those numbers are huge - in the smaller school a moderately talented moderately tall boy had a good chance at making the team. At 2400 the team can cherry pick the tallest most athletic player with deep experience. My wife went to a school so small that kids were dragooned onto teams so that they could have a team.

This reality has trickled down into youth sports causing what can only be described as a sports arms race where each family is trying to get a step on the other families.

I have an Asian boy who loves basketball. We keep trying to focus on other sports but he is determined to play basketball despite his genetics. DH and I are average height. DS will be lucky if he makes it to 6’.

We wish he would study as hard as he plays basketball.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. As a rec parent, my goal with DD is just for her to learn some basics of the game and get some exercise. I would rather she be focused on academics, not athletics. Signed- Nerd who outearns all the jocks from my high school.

Nobody wants to be a nasty troll like you.

Uh no, there are a great many comments in this thread that are nasty and insulting to Rec families.

I'm a rec-only parent and didn't feel insulted by this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a function of how large the schools are are around here and how involved the parents are. I went to a sports heavy public highschool but our school had about 1200 students - my kids’ public highschool has almost 2400. the varsity basketball team in both schools takes 15 kids. The effect of those numbers are huge - in the smaller school a moderately talented moderately tall boy had a good chance at making the team. At 2400 the team can cherry pick the tallest most athletic player with deep experience. My wife went to a school so small that kids were dragooned onto teams so that they could have a team.

This reality has trickled down into youth sports causing what can only be described as a sports arms race where each family is trying to get a step on the other families.

That’s interest, I never thought about school size in relation to how likely it is kids make the team. I knows that’s probably obvious, but I never attended big schools or played sports. Really surprised at the above people talking about juniors and seniors being cut after being on varsity since freshman year. That’s sad!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Soccer was pretty popular where I grew up, and I remember there being three primary levels:

- "house" soccer, AKA rec
- "select" - a bump up from house but games were still in the metro area, not as expensive as travel
- "travel"- was competitive and only the really good kids made the team

My kid is still young and on the rec team, but I hope there is some middle ground like the above.

Ideally, this is the way it would happen but, sadly, it doesn't really exist any more. Youth sports are irreparably broken because there's too much money in the system. A lot of people can make money from sports (leagues, venues, trainers and coaches) and parents are willing to spend that money in the hope that their kid can just keep up.

My daughter (8) is in what would be your select catageory. All of games are in the DC/close-in suburbs, she has a paid coach, and she practices 2-3 days per week. The only major bump in cost from rec leagues ara paying for a winter season and the (hopefully) non-regular purchases of a "travel" uniform and add-ons (e.g., a jacket).

Open question is whether in three+ years this middle path remains an option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Soccer was pretty popular where I grew up, and I remember there being three primary levels:

- "house" soccer, AKA rec
- "select" - a bump up from house but games were still in the metro area, not as expensive as travel
- "travel"- was competitive and only the really good kids made the team

My kid is still young and on the rec team, but I hope there is some middle ground like the above.

Ideally, this is the way it would happen but, sadly, it doesn't really exist any more. Youth sports are irreparably broken because there's too much money in the system. A lot of people can make money from sports (leagues, venues, trainers and coaches) and parents are willing to spend that money in the hope that their kid can just keep up.

My daughter (8) is in what would be your select catageory. All of games are in the DC/close-in suburbs, she has a paid coach, and she practices 2-3 days per week. The only major bump in cost from rec leagues ara paying for a winter season and the (hopefully) non-regular purchases of a "travel" uniform and add-ons (e.g., a jacket).

Open question is whether in three+ years this middle path remains an option.

Softball, at least in the VA suburbs, still has a select (we call it house+) category. It's just Sunday afternoon double headers between teams selected from all rec league players. Some of the house+ teams will also play a tournament or two, but nothing like the level of what full travel ball will do and there's no winter training. Cost difference is negligible.

I believe our local soccer league has "bridge," which is kind of similar, but as the name implies it's not intended as a long-term thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. As a rec parent, my goal with DD is just for her to learn some basics of the game and get some exercise. I would rather she be focused on academics, not athletics. Signed- Nerd who outearns all the jocks from my high school.

Nobody wants to be a nasty troll like you.

Uh no, there are a great many comments in this thread that are nasty and insulting to Rec families.

I'm a rec-only parent and didn't feel insulted by this thread.

I'm a former rec parent who had to quit because the girls softball coach screams at the girls "What the EFF is wrong with you?" When they make mistakes and he's allowed to coach even though we complained. I don't want to be part of that organization and I don't care if the people at the heart of it who refuse to clean house feel "insulted".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. As a rec parent, my goal with DD is just for her to learn some basics of the game and get some exercise. I would rather she be focused on academics, not athletics. Signed- Nerd who outearns all the jocks from my high school.

Nobody wants to be a nasty troll like you.

Uh no, there are a great many comments in this thread that are nasty and insulting to Rec families.

I'm a rec-only parent and didn't feel insulted by this thread.

I'm a former rec parent who had to quit because the girls softball coach screams at the girls "What the EFF is wrong with you?" When they make mistakes and he's allowed to coach even though we complained. I don't want to be part of that organization and I don't care if the people at the heart of it who refuse to clean house feel "insulted".

Sheesh. I hope this isn't the softball league I volunteer with.

It's hard to be a rec league because you're stuck with only the volunteers you get/people whose arm you can twist (like the poster upthread who was an "assistant" coach and ended up taking over the team). That means a jerk who steps up may get to coach even though everyone in the organization knows he's a jerk. Cleaning house isn't as easy as you might think. I can think of like 3 coaches off the top of my head our league would love to get rid of - nothing as terrible as your story but lots of little things - and it's just not been possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. As a rec parent, my goal with DD is just for her to learn some basics of the game and get some exercise. I would rather she be focused on academics, not athletics. Signed- Nerd who outearns all the jocks from my high school.

Nobody wants to be a nasty troll like you.

Uh no, there are a great many comments in this thread that are nasty and insulting to Rec families.

I'm a rec-only parent and didn't feel insulted by this thread.

I'm a former rec parent who had to quit because the girls softball coach screams at the girls "What the EFF is wrong with you?" When they make mistakes and he's allowed to coach even though we complained. I don't want to be part of that organization and I don't care if the people at the heart of it who refuse to clean house feel "insulted".

Sheesh. I hope this isn't the softball league I volunteer with.

It's hard to be a rec league because you're stuck with only the volunteers you get/people whose arm you can twist (like the poster upthread who was an "assistant" coach and ended up taking over the team). That means a jerk who steps up may get to coach even though everyone in the organization knows he's a jerk. Cleaning house isn't as easy as you might think. I can think of like 3 coaches off the top of my head our league would love to get rid of - nothing as terrible as your story but lots of little things - and it's just not been possible.

So the other families will leave. I would be shocked if our softball league had enough teams this year. Between foul mouthed dad and aggressive mean parents it was a toxic environment and people don't want to play it in anymore. The parents sucked the fun right out of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a function of how large the schools are are around here and how involved the parents are. I went to a sports heavy public highschool but our school had about 1200 students - my kids’ public highschool has almost 2400. the varsity basketball team in both schools takes 15 kids. The effect of those numbers are huge - in the smaller school a moderately talented moderately tall boy had a good chance at making the team. At 2400 the team can cherry pick the tallest most athletic player with deep experience. My wife went to a school so small that kids were dragooned onto teams so that they could have a team.

This reality has trickled down into youth sports causing what can only be described as a sports arms race where each family is trying to get a step on the other families.

That’s interest, I never thought about school size in relation to how likely it is kids make the team. I knows that’s probably obvious, but I never attended big schools or played sports. Really surprised at the above people talking about juniors and seniors being cut after being on varsity since freshman year. That’s sad!

Yep- a lot of the time there is a bit of luck involved…really depends who is in front of you (as well as who is in the class or classes behind you). They can only carry so many kids on the teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. As a rec parent, my goal with DD is just for her to learn some basics of the game and get some exercise. I would rather she be focused on academics, not athletics. Signed- Nerd who outearns all the jocks from my high school.

Nobody wants to be a nasty troll like you.

Uh no, there are a great many comments in this thread that are nasty and insulting to Rec families.

I'm a rec-only parent and didn't feel insulted by this thread.

I'm a former rec parent who had to quit because the girls softball coach screams at the girls "What the EFF is wrong with you?" When they make mistakes and he's allowed to coach even though we complained. I don't want to be part of that organization and I don't care if the people at the heart of it who refuse to clean house feel "insulted".

Sheesh. I hope this isn't the softball league I volunteer with.

It's hard to be a rec league because you're stuck with only the volunteers you get/people whose arm you can twist (like the poster upthread who was an "assistant" coach and ended up taking over the team). That means a jerk who steps up may get to coach even though everyone in the organization knows he's a jerk. Cleaning house isn't as easy as you might think. I can think of like 3 coaches off the top of my head our league would love to get rid of - nothing as terrible as your story but lots of little things - and it's just not been possible.

So the other families will leave. I would be shocked if our softball league had enough teams this year. Between foul mouthed dad and aggressive mean parents it was a toxic environment and people don't want to play it in anymore. The parents sucked the fun right out of it.

I’ve had three kids in various rec leagues over the years and NEVER had this experience. We have moved on to club/travel but have nothing but great memories of our years in those sports. Caring coaches, kind parents.

Don’t give up - this could very well have just been one bad season and not a reflection of the rec program in your area or even the rec softball program, generally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. As a rec parent, my goal with DD is just for her to learn some basics of the game and get some exercise. I would rather she be focused on academics, not athletics. Signed- Nerd who outearns all the jocks from my high school.

Nobody wants to be a nasty troll like you.

Uh no, there are a great many comments in this thread that are nasty and insulting to Rec families.

I'm a rec-only parent and didn't feel insulted by this thread.

I'm a former rec parent who had to quit because the girls softball coach screams at the girls "What the EFF is wrong with you?" When they make mistakes and he's allowed to coach even though we complained. I don't want to be part of that organization and I don't care if the people at the heart of it who refuse to clean house feel "insulted".

Sheesh. I hope this isn't the softball league I volunteer with.

It's hard to be a rec league because you're stuck with only the volunteers you get/people whose arm you can twist (like the poster upthread who was an "assistant" coach and ended up taking over the team). That means a jerk who steps up may get to coach even though everyone in the organization knows he's a jerk. Cleaning house isn't as easy as you might think. I can think of like 3 coaches off the top of my head our league would love to get rid of - nothing as terrible as your story but lots of little things - and it's just not been possible.

So the other families will leave. I would be shocked if our softball league had enough teams this year. Between foul mouthed dad and aggressive mean parents it was a toxic environment and people don't want to play it in anymore. The parents sucked the fun right out of it.

Interestingly enough, the people I hear complaining most are actually the travel parents. Complaints about toxic coaches creating a dugout culture that is also toxic. Complaints about lineup construction that just doesn't make sense. Teams imploding over differences between coaches. I hear all that and I think, "I could be paying $300 or so a year for rec which has it's downsides, or I could be paying $3000+ a year to get the same or worse downsides in travel." And the complaints aren't just from one travel program!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. As a rec parent, my goal with DD is just for her to learn some basics of the game and get some exercise. I would rather she be focused on academics, not athletics. Signed- Nerd who outearns all the jocks from my high school.

Nobody wants to be a nasty troll like you.

Uh no, there are a great many comments in this thread that are nasty and insulting to Rec families.

I'm a rec-only parent and didn't feel insulted by this thread.

I'm a former rec parent who had to quit because the girls softball coach screams at the girls "What the EFF is wrong with you?" When they make mistakes and he's allowed to coach even though we complained. I don't want to be part of that organization and I don't care if the people at the heart of it who refuse to clean house feel "insulted".

Sheesh. I hope this isn't the softball league I volunteer with.

It's hard to be a rec league because you're stuck with only the volunteers you get/people whose arm you can twist (like the poster upthread who was an "assistant" coach and ended up taking over the team). That means a jerk who steps up may get to coach even though everyone in the organization knows he's a jerk. Cleaning house isn't as easy as you might think. I can think of like 3 coaches off the top of my head our league would love to get rid of - nothing as terrible as your story but lots of little things - and it's just not been possible.

So the other families will leave. I would be shocked if our softball league had enough teams this year. Between foul mouthed dad and aggressive mean parents it was a toxic environment and people don't want to play it in anymore. The parents sucked the fun right out of it.

I’ve had three kids in various rec leagues over the years and NEVER had this experience. We have moved on to club/travel but have nothing but great memories of our years in those sports. Caring coaches, kind parents.

Don’t give up - this could very well have just been one bad season and not a reflection of the rec program in your area or even the rec softball program, generally.

We've been in a lot of rec orgs. This was just one of them, but we will not play in this one anymore. My kids are aging out of rec anyway. But it's sad about softball. Now my daughter just won't play anymore b/c she was just there for the social reasons and to be with friends. But, I offered this up as a reason people don't play rec and seek out clubs or travel. It's not that they are hyper competitive or want to overtrain their kids, sometimes (not always) it's because the rec offering is really lacking in a lot of areas: coaching, development, and a healthy environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. As a rec parent, my goal with DD is just for her to learn some basics of the game and get some exercise. I would rather she be focused on academics, not athletics. Signed- Nerd who outearns all the jocks from my high school.

Nobody wants to be a nasty troll like you.

Uh no, there are a great many comments in this thread that are nasty and insulting to Rec families.

I'm a rec-only parent and didn't feel insulted by this thread.

I'm a former rec parent who had to quit because the girls softball coach screams at the girls "What the EFF is wrong with you?" When they make mistakes and he's allowed to coach even though we complained. I don't want to be part of that organization and I don't care if the people at the heart of it who refuse to clean house feel "insulted".

Sheesh. I hope this isn't the softball league I volunteer with.

It's hard to be a rec league because you're stuck with only the volunteers you get/people whose arm you can twist (like the poster upthread who was an "assistant" coach and ended up taking over the team). That means a jerk who steps up may get to coach even though everyone in the organization knows he's a jerk. Cleaning house isn't as easy as you might think. I can think of like 3 coaches off the top of my head our league would love to get rid of - nothing as terrible as your story but lots of little things - and it's just not been possible.

So the other families will leave. I would be shocked if our softball league had enough teams this year. Between foul mouthed dad and aggressive mean parents it was a toxic environment and people don't want to play it in anymore. The parents sucked the fun right out of it.

Interestingly enough, the people I hear complaining most are actually the travel parents. Complaints about toxic coaches creating a dugout culture that is also toxic. Complaints about lineup construction that just doesn't make sense. Teams imploding over differences between coaches. I hear all that and I think, "I could be paying $300 or so a year for rec which has it's downsides, or I could be paying $3000+ a year to get the same or worse downsides in travel." And the complaints aren't just from one travel program!

The more you spend, the higher the expectations. When you pay very little, you tolerate a lot more. But I have found it easy to switch clubs. My son plays baseball and we've been on about 3 different club teams. It took some time to find the right fit. But just because rec is cheap and supposedly low pressure doesn't mean its worth the while given the potential downsides. There is only so much time in a week, if the rec team is missing some elements, it's the low hanging fruit.