Convalescent Leave at Law Firm

[Anonymous]

Oh OP my sweet summer child. Billable hours are your North Star here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My theory: if it's fillable, it's billable. When in doubt, put a mirror behind you. When you show them your front, they'll see you're back.

I don’t get it.

Basically: Jurisdiction vs. standing. Vessel or vassal? Fillable > billable. YMMV

I don't understand what that means either.

[Anonymous]

A few comments from a biglaw partner:

- There are associates who understand the game, and there are associates who don't. Those who complain, lament, etc typically don't understand the game, and are unlikely to make partner.
- There is no reason an associate should be less than 95% efficiency for a 50 hour week (barring lack of work). The people listing things like bathroom as a cut into their hours.... are exactly the people mentioned in my first bullet as not being able to play the game. Associates don't have bills to review, pitches to participate in, etc. CLEs? You do PLI on your computer while you're working on something else billable. You want to do a lot of pro bono? That's on you (no other industry pays people for doing charity work not consistent with the company's mission!). I agree associates should be doing articles, but that is probably once a quarter and perfectly designed for a quiet Sunday afternoon (or a lull in billable work). I promise you no one ever made partner on a 37/50 hour efficiency as an associate (though a few years after you make partner, your efficiency definitely goes way down)
- Very sad about OP's grandparent. But can we ask an honest question..... why did OP take 3 full days off work for a grandparent funeral? Doesn't that seem weird in biglaw? While 3 days of bereavement seems extremely short on paper, for practical purposes it seems weird you wouldn't have a LOT of downtime.
- I think OP's evaluator was sending a strong message that they think OP isn't valuable. Read between the lines and be looking for a backup plan.

The above sounds super harsh, which is really funny because I'm actually an incredibly balanced normal partner. I was part time for years, I don't typically work weekends, and work almost entirely from home. The beauty of biglaw is that the work arrangement is exceptionally transparent: You need to bill enough to be financially worthwhile to the firm. And if you do so, you won't be fired and you will be paid a LOT of money. Those who succeed aren't necessarily the ones putting in the longest days - they're typically the ones who figure out the system in the most efficient manner. They definitely aren't the ones complaining about their bereavement leave not counting towards bonus requirements.

It's funny timing because I actually spent the last 2 days completely flat on my back from a kidney infection. I was entirely incapacitated and sleeping nonstop - couldn't even send a text, so I sure as shit wasn't working. Reality is that I understand that means I have to make up some time this weekend. I'm not thrilled about it, but I make literally 10 times what all my girlfriends make in non legal jobs. I think I can suck up 5 hours on Sunday night....

[Anonymous]

You definitely still have to make your hours OP. Just like if you take vacation or sick leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A few comments from a biglaw partner:

- There are associates who understand the game, and there are associates who don't. Those who complain, lament, etc typically don't understand the game, and are unlikely to make partner.
- There is no reason an associate should be less than 95% efficiency for a 50 hour week (barring lack of work). The people listing things like bathroom as a cut into their hours.... are exactly the people mentioned in my first bullet as not being able to play the game. Associates don't have bills to review, pitches to participate in, etc. CLEs? You do PLI on your computer while you're working on something else billable. You want to do a lot of pro bono? That's on you (no other industry pays people for doing charity work not consistent with the company's mission!). I agree associates should be doing articles, but that is probably once a quarter and perfectly designed for a quiet Sunday afternoon (or a lull in billable work). I promise you no one ever made partner on a 37/50 hour efficiency as an associate (though a few years after you make partner, your efficiency definitely goes way down)
- Very sad about OP's grandparent. But can we ask an honest question..... why did OP take 3 full days off work for a grandparent funeral? Doesn't that seem weird in biglaw? While 3 days of bereavement seems extremely short on paper, for practical purposes it seems weird you wouldn't have a LOT of downtime.
- I think OP's evaluator was sending a strong message that they think OP isn't valuable. Read between the lines and be looking for a backup plan.

The above sounds super harsh, which is really funny because I'm actually an incredibly balanced normal partner. I was part time for years, I don't typically work weekends, and work almost entirely from home. The beauty of biglaw is that the work arrangement is exceptionally transparent: You need to bill enough to be financially worthwhile to the firm. And if you do so, you won't be fired and you will be paid a LOT of money. Those who succeed aren't necessarily the ones putting in the longest days - they're typically the ones who figure out the system in the most efficient manner. They definitely aren't the ones complaining about their bereavement leave not counting towards bonus requirements.

It's funny timing because I actually spent the last 2 days completely flat on my back from a kidney infection. I was entirely incapacitated and sleeping nonstop - couldn't even send a text, so I sure as shit wasn't working. Reality is that I understand that means I have to make up some time this weekend. I'm not thrilled about it, but I make literally 10 times what all my girlfriends make in non legal jobs. I think I can suck up 5 hours on Sunday night....

Bullshit. 95% efficiency is not possible if you're billing ethically and legally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few comments from a biglaw partner:

- There are associates who understand the game, and there are associates who don't. Those who complain, lament, etc typically don't understand the game, and are unlikely to make partner.
- There is no reason an associate should be less than 95% efficiency for a 50 hour week (barring lack of work). The people listing things like bathroom as a cut into their hours.... are exactly the people mentioned in my first bullet as not being able to play the game. Associates don't have bills to review, pitches to participate in, etc. CLEs? You do PLI on your computer while you're working on something else billable. You want to do a lot of pro bono? That's on you (no other industry pays people for doing charity work not consistent with the company's mission!). I agree associates should be doing articles, but that is probably once a quarter and perfectly designed for a quiet Sunday afternoon (or a lull in billable work). I promise you no one ever made partner on a 37/50 hour efficiency as an associate (though a few years after you make partner, your efficiency definitely goes way down)
- Very sad about OP's grandparent. But can we ask an honest question..... why did OP take 3 full days off work for a grandparent funeral? Doesn't that seem weird in biglaw? While 3 days of bereavement seems extremely short on paper, for practical purposes it seems weird you wouldn't have a LOT of downtime.
- I think OP's evaluator was sending a strong message that they think OP isn't valuable. Read between the lines and be looking for a backup plan.

The above sounds super harsh, which is really funny because I'm actually an incredibly balanced normal partner. I was part time for years, I don't typically work weekends, and work almost entirely from home. The beauty of biglaw is that the work arrangement is exceptionally transparent: You need to bill enough to be financially worthwhile to the firm. And if you do so, you won't be fired and you will be paid a LOT of money. Those who succeed aren't necessarily the ones putting in the longest days - they're typically the ones who figure out the system in the most efficient manner. They definitely aren't the ones complaining about their bereavement leave not counting towards bonus requirements.

It's funny timing because I actually spent the last 2 days completely flat on my back from a kidney infection. I was entirely incapacitated and sleeping nonstop - couldn't even send a text, so I sure as shit wasn't working. Reality is that I understand that means I have to make up some time this weekend. I'm not thrilled about it, but I make literally 10 times what all my girlfriends make in non legal jobs. I think I can suck up 5 hours on Sunday night....

Bullshit. 95% efficiency is not possible if you're billing ethically and legally.

It absolutely is if you cut out the bullshit stuff filling your day.

[Anonymous]

OP, sorry about your grandmother. When I was in BigLaw I never would have cut it so close that those 3 days determined a large bonus.

Do you have a mentor at work? Are you friendly with other associates? You seem to be missing a lot of subtext. I agree with that partner above that you need to get your head in this game, and it's a lucrative one, or start looking for a fed, in house, or other position. I'd actually put out feelers as a backup plan. You have been sent a strong message and your response does not bode well for your future there.

You make $ for them by generating billable hours and they compensate you well with a cut. That is the deal. Sure, take time, but those were also hours not billed. See? Your sense of grievance (not grief) is entirely misplaced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here: Phew, it turns out my evaluator didn’t know the policy and actually the bereavement leave counts as billable hours. My lessons here are that at a law firm you shouldn’t assume the partners know the policies and you need to clarify everything in writing.

I know I am posting anonymously to a message board so snark comes with the territory, but why does everyone here blame the poster (or her generation)?!?! I think it’s entirely reasonable to understand “treated as time worked” means what it says. It turns out I was right.

Oh that's great news - glad to hear it. People blame the poster because (1) there's a lot of judgey people here, and (2) they feel like if they can figure out what someone else did wrong it insulates them from ever making a mistake or getting hurt

OP is a troll. Board is overrun lately.

[Anonymous]

OMG check your privilege.

You aren't entitled to obscene pay.

Work less, get slightly less obscene income for a year, keep your job for next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My theory: if it's fillable, it's billable. When in doubt, put a mirror behind you. When you show them your front, they'll see you're back.

I don’t get it.

Basically: Jurisdiction vs. standing. Vessel or vassal? Fillable > billable. YMMV

Mmm, yes.
The flagon with dragon has the pellet with the poison.
The vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true.

[Anonymous]

Can we also reflect on the fact that OP’s grievance here is whether or not she gets a hours-targeted bonus?

Hours targeted bonus by definition means it’s a revenue target. Why would you get paid a revenue target bonus when you fall short of the revenue target, even with good reason?

Op I see that your firm did in fact count this number towards your bonus so you had your grievance solved…. But you just need to get in a different big kid headspace for law firms. They are not some kind of glorified mentoring organization. They are huge profit drivers. You’ve got to change your thinking and attitude.

I marvel in my firm how especially entitled associates are, and it recently dawned on me that our associate class who just made partner this year - 8 years out of law school - have never known anything but outstanding times of plenty since the day they started law school. So when they decided to go to law school, the economy was amazing. When they interviewed and did summer associates, the economy was amazing, most of the time they’ve been practicing has been by far the most recordbreaking growth and profits for law firms without any signs of trouble. That’s how you end up with OP (1) taking three full days off work for a grandparents funeral and (2) escalating this complaint above her mentor.

OP’s first recession is going to do a number on her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here: Phew, it turns out my evaluator didn’t know the policy and actually the bereavement leave counts as billable hours. My lessons here are that at a law firm you shouldn’t assume the partners know the policies and you need to clarify everything in writing.

I know I am posting anonymously to a message board so snark comes with the territory, but why does everyone here blame the poster (or her generation)?!?! I think it’s entirely reasonable to understand “treated as time worked” means what it says. It turns out I was right.

Oh that's great news - glad to hear it. People blame the poster because (1) there's a lot of judgey people here, and (2) they feel like if they can figure out what someone else did wrong it insulates them from ever making a mistake or getting hurt

OP is a troll. Board is overrun lately.

This is too inside baseball for a troll; op had to work at a law firm at least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we also reflect on the fact that OP’s grievance here is whether or not she gets a hours-targeted bonus?

Hours targeted bonus by definition means it’s a revenue target. Why would you get paid a revenue target bonus when you fall short of the revenue target, even with good reason?

Op I see that your firm did in fact count this number towards your bonus so you had your grievance solved…. But you just need to get in a different big kid headspace for law firms. They are not some kind of glorified mentoring organization. They are huge profit drivers. You’ve got to change your thinking and attitude.

I marvel in my firm how especially entitled associates are, and it recently dawned on me that our associate class who just made partner this year - 8 years out of law school - have never known anything but outstanding times of plenty since the day they started law school. So when they decided to go to law school, the economy was amazing. When they interviewed and did summer associates, the economy was amazing, most of the time they’ve been practicing has been by far the most recordbreaking growth and profits for law firms without any signs of trouble. That’s how you end up with OP (1) taking three full days off work for a grandparents funeral and (2) escalating this complaint above her mentor.

OP’s first recession is going to do a number on her.

Seriously. Most Millenials have seen a roaring economy since 2010, fueled by a decade plus of ZIRP as well as likely Chinas boosting of its own economy and spillover to global markets

All that is gone. We have high rates and while we may see some cuts, I don’t think we will see anything like ZIRP in our lifetime. China is having a huge problem with real estate, worker unrest, and demographic collapse.

Good times over, and tech bros, sales babes, and big law associates need to focus on the value they bring to the company not just assuming they are a coveted resource. AI may have another impact, if it can replicate some of the grunt work of associates they can reduce staff and just have a select few overseeing the final products.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we also reflect on the fact that OP’s grievance here is whether or not she gets a hours-targeted bonus?

Hours targeted bonus by definition means it’s a revenue target. Why would you get paid a revenue target bonus when you fall short of the revenue target, even with good reason?

Op I see that your firm did in fact count this number towards your bonus so you had your grievance solved…. But you just need to get in a different big kid headspace for law firms. They are not some kind of glorified mentoring organization. They are huge profit drivers. You’ve got to change your thinking and attitude.

I marvel in my firm how especially entitled associates are, and it recently dawned on me that our associate class who just made partner this year - 8 years out of law school - have never known anything but outstanding times of plenty since the day they started law school. So when they decided to go to law school, the economy was amazing. When they interviewed and did summer associates, the economy was amazing, most of the time they’ve been practicing has been by far the most recordbreaking growth and profits for law firms without any signs of trouble. That’s how you end up with OP (1) taking three full days off work for a grandparents funeral and (2) escalating this complaint above her mentor.

OP’s first recession is going to do a number on her.

Seriously. Most Millenials have seen a roaring economy since 2010, fueled by a decade plus of ZIRP as well as likely Chinas boosting of its own economy and spillover to global markets

All that is gone. We have high rates and while we may see some cuts, I don’t think we will see anything like ZIRP in our lifetime. China is having a huge problem with real estate, worker unrest, and demographic collapse.

Good times over, and tech bros, sales babes, and big law associates need to focus on the value they bring to the company not just assuming they are a coveted resource. AI may have another impact, if it can replicate some of the grunt work of associates they can reduce staff and just have a select few overseeing the final products.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and while I absolutely agree that associates are in for a rough go when they weather their first recession.... I don't think law firms are really seeing that yet. Firms with broad practices (litigation, corporate, regulatory) definitely saw a slight slowdown in 2023, and a larger slowdown in corporate work - but it wasn't devastating. With rate increases, most of those firms still ended up paying associates and partners more comp than 2022. At my firm in early 2023, management was making vague threats about recession planning and budget cutting (for instance, our client offsite event had it's budget cut from $600,000 to $350,000) but I believe we got the number back up to budget for 2024. The mood seems to be that 2024 is still a watch year, but should be okay. So these Gen Z snowflakes will continue to have another year of whining about not getting a bonus for bereavement leave.

[Anonymous]

OP both my parents died and I had a TON of downtime over the leave period. Why didn’t you work remotely?