BASIS to Banneker

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Because BASIS is offers far more serious HS academics than any other DC public school other than the fast track at J-R and Walls for humanities subjects. I don't care for their AP cram school approach and didn't take the 5th grade spot we got, but there's no denying that their math and science middle and high school prep is head and shoulders above that offered at any other DC public school. There's also no denying that some of the black families EotP who would have gone with Banneker or a DCPS middle school like Stuart Hobson in the past now head to BASIS. Banneker doesn't seem to be getting any students into MIT, Cal Tech, Princeton engineering. BASIS does.
Banneker's mediocre STEM prep has lost its sheen with BASIS in town.

Umm..Banneker is a Humanities school just like Walls so I don't know where STEM prep comes in. I majored in math and Basis is not it. It's just kill and drill with no depth. I was very disappointed when we toured and didn't even bother. Sure it may be better than other DCPS MS in Math but nothing to write home about. Just go with a math tutor for the win.The majority of the kids that have gone to the good eng schools have followed that model.

Oh, you went to an open house and are now an expert on the math program at BASIS?

We actually have kids taking math at BASIS. What they are doing is far more advanced than what we were doing at the same age. No question in our mind that it offers the most advanced math curriculum among DC publics.

I’d argue many of those kids have a surface understanding of the math but not a deep conceptual understanding. I’ve taught many kids who left Basis after middle school. Some are great at math, some are okay and most were accelerated too quickly and the gaps really showed. Flame away but I have a relatively large sample size for my observations.

It seems very likely that both of these are true -- that a lot of kids who leave after middle school were accelerated too fast and that some kids, particularly kids who it works for and who stay, are legitimately getting taught much more advanced math than they would get elsewhere. It's too bad that there isn't a way for kids who would benefit from that acceleration to be guaranteed a way of accessing it in DC.

OK, where do you teach, what grade, and how many ex-Basis kids have you had?

This is all public. BASIS's slower math track starts kids on high school math in 7th grade. Last year, there were 49 sixth graders, or about 40% of the class, who scored below-proficient in sixth grade math. Those who stuck around got accelerated multiple years ahead of what they were ready for because that's BASIS's model. Many of those kids will wind up leaving. The charter school model doesn't allow schools to practice selective admissions or even tell parents "your kid will not succeed here", but it does allow them to have a curriculum that is developmentally inappropriate for most kids in DC and a good chunk of their students. It's very weird.

Not really.

Basis doesn’t socially promote or backfill, and teaches at a more advanced level than other public schools in DC. No surprise that kids leave.

And since Basis is 100% lottery there is also no surprise that not every kid in 5th and 6th grade is a math star. However, if you look at high school PARCC scores and average math SAT scores, after kids have been at Basis for a while, Basis is top in DC.

If you don’t think your kid can handle a rigorous curriculum, you don’t send them to Basis.

Also, they do math tracking so advanced kids can move ahead starting in 6th grade and slower kids can do less advanced work starting in 8th grade. So, contrary to your suggestion, not everyone is in lockstep.

Different but hardly “weird.”

Where this started was you were arguing that BASIS wasn't accelerating kids in math before they were ready. That's what this was about. And the "less advanced" work in 8th grade is the second year of high school math. You can think it's just fine that they do this, but of course they are pushing kids faster in math than many of them are ready for. The excellent test scores are partly a function of the entirely-predictable attrition of kids who weren't ready for the coursework.

Bolded is where the DC mentality pisses me off. A school that kids affirmatively choose to attend "pushes them too fast" but somehow the fact that the entirety of DCPS not pushing kids at all and refusing to track is no problem at all. Race to the bottom with a bunch of well meaning educatiotn "academics" ruining what's left of DC's public education.

Lack of differentiation is a huge problem within DCPS. Also, BASIS pushes students who are below grade level into classes they are not ready for. These are not in any way contradictory and I have no idea why anyone would be sensitive about or argue with the idea that kids who are getting 1s and 2s in 6th grade math should not completing algebra I and geometry in middle school. If BASIS were allowed to select who they take, they would never take those kids because they're not set up for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because BASIS is offers far more serious HS academics than any other DC public school other than the fast track at J-R and Walls for humanities subjects. I don't care for their AP cram school approach and didn't take the 5th grade spot we got, but there's no denying that their math and science middle and high school prep is head and shoulders above that offered at any other DC public school. There's also no denying that some of the black families EotP who would have gone with Banneker or a DCPS middle school like Stuart Hobson in the past now head to BASIS. Banneker doesn't seem to be getting any students into MIT, Cal Tech, Princeton engineering. BASIS does.
Banneker's mediocre STEM prep has lost its sheen with BASIS in town.

Umm..Banneker is a Humanities school just like Walls so I don't know where STEM prep comes in. I majored in math and Basis is not it. It's just kill and drill with no depth. I was very disappointed when we toured and didn't even bother. Sure it may be better than other DCPS MS in Math but nothing to write home about. Just go with a math tutor for the win.The majority of the kids that have gone to the good eng schools have followed that model.

Oh, you went to an open house and are now an expert on the math program at BASIS?

We actually have kids taking math at BASIS. What they are doing is far more advanced than what we were doing at the same age. No question in our mind that it offers the most advanced math curriculum among DC publics.

I’d argue many of those kids have a surface understanding of the math but not a deep conceptual understanding. I’ve taught many kids who left Basis after middle school. Some are great at math, some are okay and most were accelerated too quickly and the gaps really showed. Flame away but I have a relatively large sample size for my observations.

It seems very likely that both of these are true -- that a lot of kids who leave after middle school were accelerated too fast and that some kids, particularly kids who it works for and who stay, are legitimately getting taught much more advanced math than they would get elsewhere. It's too bad that there isn't a way for kids who would benefit from that acceleration to be guaranteed a way of accessing it in DC.

Well, the kids that drop out of BASIS DC are probably not the best sample….lol

NP but drop out is a weird way to phrase it. They leave after middle school. Lots of kids do that- I wouldn’t say a Deal kid who goes to Walls instead of JR ‘dropped out’ of Deal. And many leave for reasons that have nothing to do with academics.

Still a poor sample and, if you are a math teacher at some random school in DC, a small one as well.

I’m curious what you would consider an acceptable or strong sample size.

PP asked you how many ex-BASIS students you taught. You never answered the question. Stop trying to evade.

This seems unnecessarily aggressive for a forum about a middle school but whatever. I’d say close to 100 kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because BASIS is offers far more serious HS academics than any other DC public school other than the fast track at J-R and Walls for humanities subjects. I don't care for their AP cram school approach and didn't take the 5th grade spot we got, but there's no denying that their math and science middle and high school prep is head and shoulders above that offered at any other DC public school. There's also no denying that some of the black families EotP who would have gone with Banneker or a DCPS middle school like Stuart Hobson in the past now head to BASIS. Banneker doesn't seem to be getting any students into MIT, Cal Tech, Princeton engineering. BASIS does.
Banneker's mediocre STEM prep has lost its sheen with BASIS in town.

Umm..Banneker is a Humanities school just like Walls so I don't know where STEM prep comes in. I majored in math and Basis is not it. It's just kill and drill with no depth. I was very disappointed when we toured and didn't even bother. Sure it may be better than other DCPS MS in Math but nothing to write home about. Just go with a math tutor for the win.The majority of the kids that have gone to the good eng schools have followed that model.

Oh, you went to an open house and are now an expert on the math program at BASIS?

We actually have kids taking math at BASIS. What they are doing is far more advanced than what we were doing at the same age. No question in our mind that it offers the most advanced math curriculum among DC publics.

I’d argue many of those kids have a surface understanding of the math but not a deep conceptual understanding. I’ve taught many kids who left Basis after middle school. Some are great at math, some are okay and most were accelerated too quickly and the gaps really showed. Flame away but I have a relatively large sample size for my observations.

It seems very likely that both of these are true -- that a lot of kids who leave after middle school were accelerated too fast and that some kids, particularly kids who it works for and who stay, are legitimately getting taught much more advanced math than they would get elsewhere. It's too bad that there isn't a way for kids who would benefit from that acceleration to be guaranteed a way of accessing it in DC.

OK, where do you teach, what grade, and how many ex-Basis kids have you had?

This is all public. BASIS's slower math track starts kids on high school math in 7th grade. Last year, there were 49 sixth graders, or about 40% of the class, who scored below-proficient in sixth grade math. Those who stuck around got accelerated multiple years ahead of what they were ready for because that's BASIS's model. Many of those kids will wind up leaving. The charter school model doesn't allow schools to practice selective admissions or even tell parents "your kid will not succeed here", but it does allow them to have a curriculum that is developmentally inappropriate for most kids in DC and a good chunk of their students. It's very weird.

Not really.

Basis doesn’t socially promote or backfill, and teaches at a more advanced level than other public schools in DC. No surprise that kids leave.

And since Basis is 100% lottery there is also no surprise that not every kid in 5th and 6th grade is a math star. However, if you look at high school PARCC scores and average math SAT scores, after kids have been at Basis for a while, Basis is top in DC.

If you don’t think your kid can handle a rigorous curriculum, you don’t send them to Basis.

Also, they do math tracking so advanced kids can move ahead starting in 6th grade and slower kids can do less advanced work starting in 8th grade. So, contrary to your suggestion, not everyone is in lockstep.

Different but hardly “weird.”

Knock off the BASIS exceptionalism already. It's seriously hackneyed at this point. What's "weird" is how you cling to your myopic take on the push factors motivating at least half a given 5th grade BASIS cohort to bail before HS. You know as well as I do that plenty of 8th graders leave BASIS in search of a happier and better-rounded high education in a school with better facilities and ECs and less teacher turnover. Simply not the case that most of them leave because they couldn't handle the rigorous curriculum. A small number of the BASIS 8th graders head to Banneker, where, arguably, advanced humanities instruction is stronger than at BASIS. The truth is that the humanities teaching team at Banneker handling the most advanced classes is far more stable, experienced and autonomous than the one at BASIS in any given school year. We looked seriously into Banneker when we were fed up with the BASIS middle school, although our kid was a straight-A student. We went with a parochial high school on a music scholarship instead.

BASIS to Banneker parent who couldn't agree more. One of things we like best about Banneker is that the parents haven't drunk the Koolaid about the program's way or the highway for struggling students. There's ample room for highfliers headed to Ivies AND students who aren't cut out to take a slew of AP classes (as long as they behave well and work hard). The atmosphere is far more supportive of first-rate humanities students than at BASIS with many older teachers on board who've been with DCPS for a really long time and know exactly what they're doing. BASIS often felt like a teacher training program for 20-somethings who were working on improving their classroom management skills. Worth noting that the Banneker building is ten times better, which matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because BASIS is offers far more serious HS academics than any other DC public school other than the fast track at J-R and Walls for humanities subjects. I don't care for their AP cram school approach and didn't take the 5th grade spot we got, but there's no denying that their math and science middle and high school prep is head and shoulders above that offered at any other DC public school. There's also no denying that some of the black families EotP who would have gone with Banneker or a DCPS middle school like Stuart Hobson in the past now head to BASIS. Banneker doesn't seem to be getting any students into MIT, Cal Tech, Princeton engineering. BASIS does.
Banneker's mediocre STEM prep has lost its sheen with BASIS in town.

Umm..Banneker is a Humanities school just like Walls so I don't know where STEM prep comes in. I majored in math and Basis is not it. It's just kill and drill with no depth. I was very disappointed when we toured and didn't even bother. Sure it may be better than other DCPS MS in Math but nothing to write home about. Just go with a math tutor for the win.The majority of the kids that have gone to the good eng schools have followed that model.

Oh, you went to an open house and are now an expert on the math program at BASIS?

We actually have kids taking math at BASIS. What they are doing is far more advanced than what we were doing at the same age. No question in our mind that it offers the most advanced math curriculum among DC publics.

I’d argue many of those kids have a surface understanding of the math but not a deep conceptual understanding. I’ve taught many kids who left Basis after middle school. Some are great at math, some are okay and most were accelerated too quickly and the gaps really showed. Flame away but I have a relatively large sample size for my observations.

It seems very likely that both of these are true -- that a lot of kids who leave after middle school were accelerated too fast and that some kids, particularly kids who it works for and who stay, are legitimately getting taught much more advanced math than they would get elsewhere. It's too bad that there isn't a way for kids who would benefit from that acceleration to be guaranteed a way of accessing it in DC.

OK, where do you teach, what grade, and how many ex-Basis kids have you had?

This is all public. BASIS's slower math track starts kids on high school math in 7th grade. Last year, there were 49 sixth graders, or about 40% of the class, who scored below-proficient in sixth grade math. Those who stuck around got accelerated multiple years ahead of what they were ready for because that's BASIS's model. Many of those kids will wind up leaving. The charter school model doesn't allow schools to practice selective admissions or even tell parents "your kid will not succeed here", but it does allow them to have a curriculum that is developmentally inappropriate for most kids in DC and a good chunk of their students. It's very weird.

Not really.

Basis doesn’t socially promote or backfill, and teaches at a more advanced level than other public schools in DC. No surprise that kids leave.

And since Basis is 100% lottery there is also no surprise that not every kid in 5th and 6th grade is a math star. However, if you look at high school PARCC scores and average math SAT scores, after kids have been at Basis for a while, Basis is top in DC.

If you don’t think your kid can handle a rigorous curriculum, you don’t send them to Basis.

Also, they do math tracking so advanced kids can move ahead starting in 6th grade and slower kids can do less advanced work starting in 8th grade. So, contrary to your suggestion, not everyone is in lockstep.

Different but hardly “weird.”

Knock off the BASIS exceptionalism already. It's seriously hackneyed at this point. What's "weird" is how you cling to your myopic take on the push factors motivating at least half a given 5th grade BASIS cohort to bail before HS. You know as well as I do that plenty of 8th graders leave BASIS in search of a happier and better-rounded high education in a school with better facilities and ECs and less teacher turnover. Simply not the case that most of them leave because they couldn't handle the rigorous curriculum. A small number of the BASIS 8th graders head to Banneker, where, arguably, advanced humanities instruction is stronger than at BASIS. The truth is that the humanities teaching team at Banneker handling the most advanced classes is far more stable, experienced and autonomous than the one at BASIS in any given school year. We looked seriously into Banneker when we were fed up with the BASIS middle school, although our kid was a straight-A student. We went with a parochial high school on a music scholarship instead.

DP. A large fraction of the kids at Basis never intended to remain there through high school. The DC area middle school options are so bad that a lot of people plan to use basis for middle school and then move on when they have many more decent options for high school. It's not a flaw with Basis specifically, but rather with DC's lack of good middle schools.

For math, I agree that Basis pushes a lot of kids into Algebra who aren't ready. It's also one of the only places to allow adequate acceleration for the kids who are ready. My older kid took AP calc in 10th grade, and my younger did it in 8th grade with straight As, 5s on all AP tests, and no issues. At almost any other school, they would have been required to wait until 11th grade or even 12th before having access to AP calc. I have no idea why people lottery into Basis in 5th if their kid isn't already solidly above grade level in math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because BASIS is offers far more serious HS academics than any other DC public school other than the fast track at J-R and Walls for humanities subjects. I don't care for their AP cram school approach and didn't take the 5th grade spot we got, but there's no denying that their math and science middle and high school prep is head and shoulders above that offered at any other DC public school. There's also no denying that some of the black families EotP who would have gone with Banneker or a DCPS middle school like Stuart Hobson in the past now head to BASIS. Banneker doesn't seem to be getting any students into MIT, Cal Tech, Princeton engineering. BASIS does.
Banneker's mediocre STEM prep has lost its sheen with BASIS in town.

Umm..Banneker is a Humanities school just like Walls so I don't know where STEM prep comes in. I majored in math and Basis is not it. It's just kill and drill with no depth. I was very disappointed when we toured and didn't even bother. Sure it may be better than other DCPS MS in Math but nothing to write home about. Just go with a math tutor for the win.The majority of the kids that have gone to the good eng schools have followed that model.

Oh, you went to an open house and are now an expert on the math program at BASIS?

We actually have kids taking math at BASIS. What they are doing is far more advanced than what we were doing at the same age. No question in our mind that it offers the most advanced math curriculum among DC publics.

I’d argue many of those kids have a surface understanding of the math but not a deep conceptual understanding. I’ve taught many kids who left Basis after middle school. Some are great at math, some are okay and most were accelerated too quickly and the gaps really showed. Flame away but I have a relatively large sample size for my observations.

It seems very likely that both of these are true -- that a lot of kids who leave after middle school were accelerated too fast and that some kids, particularly kids who it works for and who stay, are legitimately getting taught much more advanced math than they would get elsewhere. It's too bad that there isn't a way for kids who would benefit from that acceleration to be guaranteed a way of accessing it in DC.

OK, where do you teach, what grade, and how many ex-Basis kids have you had?

This is all public. BASIS's slower math track starts kids on high school math in 7th grade. Last year, there were 49 sixth graders, or about 40% of the class, who scored below-proficient in sixth grade math. Those who stuck around got accelerated multiple years ahead of what they were ready for because that's BASIS's model. Many of those kids will wind up leaving. The charter school model doesn't allow schools to practice selective admissions or even tell parents "your kid will not succeed here", but it does allow them to have a curriculum that is developmentally inappropriate for most kids in DC and a good chunk of their students. It's very weird.

Not really.

Basis doesn’t socially promote or backfill, and teaches at a more advanced level than other public schools in DC. No surprise that kids leave.

And since Basis is 100% lottery there is also no surprise that not every kid in 5th and 6th grade is a math star. However, if you look at high school PARCC scores and average math SAT scores, after kids have been at Basis for a while, Basis is top in DC.

If you don’t think your kid can handle a rigorous curriculum, you don’t send them to Basis.

Also, they do math tracking so advanced kids can move ahead starting in 6th grade and slower kids can do less advanced work starting in 8th grade. So, contrary to your suggestion, not everyone is in lockstep.

Different but hardly “weird.”

Knock off the BASIS exceptionalism already. It's seriously hackneyed at this point. What's "weird" is how you cling to your myopic take on the push factors motivating at least half a given 5th grade BASIS cohort to bail before HS. You know as well as I do that plenty of 8th graders leave BASIS in search of a happier and better-rounded high education in a school with better facilities and ECs and less teacher turnover. Simply not the case that most of them leave because they couldn't handle the rigorous curriculum. A small number of the BASIS 8th graders head to Banneker, where, arguably, advanced humanities instruction is stronger than at BASIS. The truth is that the humanities teaching team at Banneker handling the most advanced classes is far more stable, experienced and autonomous than the one at BASIS in any given school year. We looked seriously into Banneker when we were fed up with the BASIS middle school, although our kid was a straight-A student. We went with a parochial high school on a music scholarship instead.

DP. A large fraction of the kids at Basis never intended to remain there through high school. The DC area middle school options are so bad that a lot of people plan to use basis for middle school and then move on when they have many more decent options for high school. It's not a flaw with Basis specifically, but rather with DC's lack of good middle schools.

For math, I agree that Basis pushes a lot of kids into Algebra who aren't ready. It's also one of the only places to allow adequate acceleration for the kids who are ready. My older kid took AP calc in 10th grade, and my younger did it in 8th grade with straight As, 5s on all AP tests, and no issues. At almost any other school, they would have been required to wait until 11th grade or even 12th before having access to AP calc. I have no idea why people lottery into Basis in 5th if their kid isn't already solidly above grade level in math.

I wouldn't say "never intended" but I agree with your premise. There are very few good MS options and many more HS ones. Kids leaving BASIS for HS is not a bug, it is a feature. It is much more a reflection of the poor state of DC MS options than it is an indictment of BASIS HS. BASIS was the best available choice for MS and for some kids there are better available choices for HS. Beyond me why so many DCUM posters are so emotionally invested in making that decision matrix anything more than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because BASIS is offers far more serious HS academics than any other DC public school other than the fast track at J-R and Walls for humanities subjects. I don't care for their AP cram school approach and didn't take the 5th grade spot we got, but there's no denying that their math and science middle and high school prep is head and shoulders above that offered at any other DC public school. There's also no denying that some of the black families EotP who would have gone with Banneker or a DCPS middle school like Stuart Hobson in the past now head to BASIS. Banneker doesn't seem to be getting any students into MIT, Cal Tech, Princeton engineering. BASIS does.
Banneker's mediocre STEM prep has lost its sheen with BASIS in town.

Umm..Banneker is a Humanities school just like Walls so I don't know where STEM prep comes in. I majored in math and Basis is not it. It's just kill and drill with no depth. I was very disappointed when we toured and didn't even bother. Sure it may be better than other DCPS MS in Math but nothing to write home about. Just go with a math tutor for the win.The majority of the kids that have gone to the good eng schools have followed that model.

Oh, you went to an open house and are now an expert on the math program at BASIS?

We actually have kids taking math at BASIS. What they are doing is far more advanced than what we were doing at the same age. No question in our mind that it offers the most advanced math curriculum among DC publics.

I’d argue many of those kids have a surface understanding of the math but not a deep conceptual understanding. I’ve taught many kids who left Basis after middle school. Some are great at math, some are okay and most were accelerated too quickly and the gaps really showed. Flame away but I have a relatively large sample size for my observations.

It seems very likely that both of these are true -- that a lot of kids who leave after middle school were accelerated too fast and that some kids, particularly kids who it works for and who stay, are legitimately getting taught much more advanced math than they would get elsewhere. It's too bad that there isn't a way for kids who would benefit from that acceleration to be guaranteed a way of accessing it in DC.

OK, where do you teach, what grade, and how many ex-Basis kids have you had?

This is all public. BASIS's slower math track starts kids on high school math in 7th grade. Last year, there were 49 sixth graders, or about 40% of the class, who scored below-proficient in sixth grade math. Those who stuck around got accelerated multiple years ahead of what they were ready for because that's BASIS's model. Many of those kids will wind up leaving. The charter school model doesn't allow schools to practice selective admissions or even tell parents "your kid will not succeed here", but it does allow them to have a curriculum that is developmentally inappropriate for most kids in DC and a good chunk of their students. It's very weird.

Not really.

Basis doesn’t socially promote or backfill, and teaches at a more advanced level than other public schools in DC. No surprise that kids leave.

And since Basis is 100% lottery there is also no surprise that not every kid in 5th and 6th grade is a math star. However, if you look at high school PARCC scores and average math SAT scores, after kids have been at Basis for a while, Basis is top in DC.

If you don’t think your kid can handle a rigorous curriculum, you don’t send them to Basis.

Also, they do math tracking so advanced kids can move ahead starting in 6th grade and slower kids can do less advanced work starting in 8th grade. So, contrary to your suggestion, not everyone is in lockstep.

Different but hardly “weird.”

Knock off the BASIS exceptionalism already. It's seriously hackneyed at this point. What's "weird" is how you cling to your myopic take on the push factors motivating at least half a given 5th grade BASIS cohort to bail before HS. You know as well as I do that plenty of 8th graders leave BASIS in search of a happier and better-rounded high education in a school with better facilities and ECs and less teacher turnover. Simply not the case that most of them leave because they couldn't handle the rigorous curriculum. A small number of the BASIS 8th graders head to Banneker, where, arguably, advanced humanities instruction is stronger than at BASIS. The truth is that the humanities teaching team at Banneker handling the most advanced classes is far more stable, experienced and autonomous than the one at BASIS in any given school year. We looked seriously into Banneker when we were fed up with the BASIS middle school, although our kid was a straight-A student. We went with a parochial high school on a music scholarship instead.

DP. A large fraction of the kids at Basis never intended to remain there through high school. The DC area middle school options are so bad that a lot of people plan to use basis for middle school and then move on when they have many more decent options for high school. It's not a flaw with Basis specifically, but rather with DC's lack of good middle schools.

For math, I agree that Basis pushes a lot of kids into Algebra who aren't ready. It's also one of the only places to allow adequate acceleration for the kids who are ready. My older kid took AP calc in 10th grade, and my younger did it in 8th grade with straight As, 5s on all AP tests, and no issues. At almost any other school, they would have been required to wait until 11th grade or even 12th before having access to AP calc. I have no idea why people lottery into Basis in 5th if their kid isn't already solidly above grade level in math.

I know. Easy one. Most UMC parents EotP don't have a by-right DCPS middle school with acceptable academics or discipline, or they fail to lottery into one of the Latins. So they hope for the best at BASIS because they don't want to move to the burbs or Upper NW, or pay money they don't have for private school. It's that simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because BASIS is offers far more serious HS academics than any other DC public school other than the fast track at J-R and Walls for humanities subjects. I don't care for their AP cram school approach and didn't take the 5th grade spot we got, but there's no denying that their math and science middle and high school prep is head and shoulders above that offered at any other DC public school. There's also no denying that some of the black families EotP who would have gone with Banneker or a DCPS middle school like Stuart Hobson in the past now head to BASIS. Banneker doesn't seem to be getting any students into MIT, Cal Tech, Princeton engineering. BASIS does.
Banneker's mediocre STEM prep has lost its sheen with BASIS in town.

Umm..Banneker is a Humanities school just like Walls so I don't know where STEM prep comes in. I majored in math and Basis is not it. It's just kill and drill with no depth. I was very disappointed when we toured and didn't even bother. Sure it may be better than other DCPS MS in Math but nothing to write home about. Just go with a math tutor for the win.The majority of the kids that have gone to the good eng schools have followed that model.

Oh, you went to an open house and are now an expert on the math program at BASIS?

We actually have kids taking math at BASIS. What they are doing is far more advanced than what we were doing at the same age. No question in our mind that it offers the most advanced math curriculum among DC publics.

I’d argue many of those kids have a surface understanding of the math but not a deep conceptual understanding. I’ve taught many kids who left Basis after middle school. Some are great at math, some are okay and most were accelerated too quickly and the gaps really showed. Flame away but I have a relatively large sample size for my observations.

It seems very likely that both of these are true -- that a lot of kids who leave after middle school were accelerated too fast and that some kids, particularly kids who it works for and who stay, are legitimately getting taught much more advanced math than they would get elsewhere. It's too bad that there isn't a way for kids who would benefit from that acceleration to be guaranteed a way of accessing it in DC.

OK, where do you teach, what grade, and how many ex-Basis kids have you had?

This is all public. BASIS's slower math track starts kids on high school math in 7th grade. Last year, there were 49 sixth graders, or about 40% of the class, who scored below-proficient in sixth grade math. Those who stuck around got accelerated multiple years ahead of what they were ready for because that's BASIS's model. Many of those kids will wind up leaving. The charter school model doesn't allow schools to practice selective admissions or even tell parents "your kid will not succeed here", but it does allow them to have a curriculum that is developmentally inappropriate for most kids in DC and a good chunk of their students. It's very weird.

Not really.

Basis doesn’t socially promote or backfill, and teaches at a more advanced level than other public schools in DC. No surprise that kids leave.

And since Basis is 100% lottery there is also no surprise that not every kid in 5th and 6th grade is a math star. However, if you look at high school PARCC scores and average math SAT scores, after kids have been at Basis for a while, Basis is top in DC.

If you don’t think your kid can handle a rigorous curriculum, you don’t send them to Basis.

Also, they do math tracking so advanced kids can move ahead starting in 6th grade and slower kids can do less advanced work starting in 8th grade. So, contrary to your suggestion, not everyone is in lockstep.

Different but hardly “weird.”

Knock off the BASIS exceptionalism already. It's seriously hackneyed at this point. What's "weird" is how you cling to your myopic take on the push factors motivating at least half a given 5th grade BASIS cohort to bail before HS. You know as well as I do that plenty of 8th graders leave BASIS in search of a happier and better-rounded high education in a school with better facilities and ECs and less teacher turnover. Simply not the case that most of them leave because they couldn't handle the rigorous curriculum. A small number of the BASIS 8th graders head to Banneker, where, arguably, advanced humanities instruction is stronger than at BASIS. The truth is that the humanities teaching team at Banneker handling the most advanced classes is far more stable, experienced and autonomous than the one at BASIS in any given school year. We looked seriously into Banneker when we were fed up with the BASIS middle school, although our kid was a straight-A student. We went with a parochial high school on a music scholarship instead.

DP. A large fraction of the kids at Basis never intended to remain there through high school. The DC area middle school options are so bad that a lot of people plan to use basis for middle school and then move on when they have many more decent options for high school. It's not a flaw with Basis specifically, but rather with DC's lack of good middle schools.

For math, I agree that Basis pushes a lot of kids into Algebra who aren't ready. It's also one of the only places to allow adequate acceleration for the kids who are ready. My older kid took AP calc in 10th grade, and my younger did it in 8th grade with straight As, 5s on all AP tests, and no issues. At almost any other school, they would have been required to wait until 11th grade or even 12th before having access to AP calc. I have no idea why people lottery into Basis in 5th if their kid isn't already solidly above grade level in math.

I don't know about *every* DCPS middle, but there are DCPS middle schools that will accelerate you. I think the difference is, if *a lot* of the kids who need that acceleration in math go to Basis, they will have a group together to do it. I taught a student who never took math at the middle school he attended. And took AP Calc in 9th grade. (He went to all DCPS schools.)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Because BASIS is offers far more serious HS academics than any other DC public school other than the fast track at J-R and Walls for humanities subjects. I don't care for their AP cram school approach and didn't take the 5th grade spot we got, but there's no denying that their math and science middle and high school prep is head and shoulders above that offered at any other DC public school. There's also no denying that some of the black families EotP who would have gone with Banneker or a DCPS middle school like Stuart Hobson in the past now head to BASIS. Banneker doesn't seem to be getting any students into MIT, Cal Tech, Princeton engineering. BASIS does.
Banneker's mediocre STEM prep has lost its sheen with BASIS in town.

Umm..Banneker is a Humanities school just like Walls so I don't know where STEM prep comes in. I majored in math and Basis is not it. It's just kill and drill with no depth. I was very disappointed when we toured and didn't even bother. Sure it may be better than other DCPS MS in Math but nothing to write home about. Just go with a math tutor for the win.The majority of the kids that have gone to the good eng schools have followed that model.

Oh, you went to an open house and are now an expert on the math program at BASIS?

We actually have kids taking math at BASIS. What they are doing is far more advanced than what we were doing at the same age. No question in our mind that it offers the most advanced math curriculum among DC publics.

I’d argue many of those kids have a surface understanding of the math but not a deep conceptual understanding. I’ve taught many kids who left Basis after middle school. Some are great at math, some are okay and most were accelerated too quickly and the gaps really showed. Flame away but I have a relatively large sample size for my observations.

It seems very likely that both of these are true -- that a lot of kids who leave after middle school were accelerated too fast and that some kids, particularly kids who it works for and who stay, are legitimately getting taught much more advanced math than they would get elsewhere. It's too bad that there isn't a way for kids who would benefit from that acceleration to be guaranteed a way of accessing it in DC.

OK, where do you teach, what grade, and how many ex-Basis kids have you had?

This is all public. BASIS's slower math track starts kids on high school math in 7th grade. Last year, there were 49 sixth graders, or about 40% of the class, who scored below-proficient in sixth grade math. Those who stuck around got accelerated multiple years ahead of what they were ready for because that's BASIS's model. Many of those kids will wind up leaving. The charter school model doesn't allow schools to practice selective admissions or even tell parents "your kid will not succeed here", but it does allow them to have a curriculum that is developmentally inappropriate for most kids in DC and a good chunk of their students. It's very weird.

Not really.

Basis doesn’t socially promote or backfill, and teaches at a more advanced level than other public schools in DC. No surprise that kids leave.

And since Basis is 100% lottery there is also no surprise that not every kid in 5th and 6th grade is a math star. However, if you look at high school PARCC scores and average math SAT scores, after kids have been at Basis for a while, Basis is top in DC.

If you don’t think your kid can handle a rigorous curriculum, you don’t send them to Basis.

Also, they do math tracking so advanced kids can move ahead starting in 6th grade and slower kids can do less advanced work starting in 8th grade. So, contrary to your suggestion, not everyone is in lockstep.

Different but hardly “weird.”

Knock off the BASIS exceptionalism already. It's seriously hackneyed at this point. What's "weird" is how you cling to your myopic take on the push factors motivating at least half a given 5th grade BASIS cohort to bail before HS. You know as well as I do that plenty of 8th graders leave BASIS in search of a happier and better-rounded high education in a school with better facilities and ECs and less teacher turnover. Simply not the case that most of them leave because they couldn't handle the rigorous curriculum. A small number of the BASIS 8th graders head to Banneker, where, arguably, advanced humanities instruction is stronger than at BASIS. The truth is that the humanities teaching team at Banneker handling the most advanced classes is far more stable, experienced and autonomous than the one at BASIS in any given school year. We looked seriously into Banneker when we were fed up with the BASIS middle school, although our kid was a straight-A student. We went with a parochial high school on a music scholarship instead.

DP. A large fraction of the kids at Basis never intended to remain there through high school. The DC area middle school options are so bad that a lot of people plan to use basis for middle school and then move on when they have many more decent options for high school. It's not a flaw with Basis specifically, but rather with DC's lack of good middle schools.

For math, I agree that Basis pushes a lot of kids into Algebra who aren't ready. It's also one of the only places to allow adequate acceleration for the kids who are ready. My older kid took AP calc in 10th grade, and my younger did it in 8th grade with straight As, 5s on all AP tests, and no issues. At almost any other school, they would have been required to wait until 11th grade or even 12th before having access to AP calc. I have no idea why people lottery into Basis in 5th if their kid isn't already solidly above grade level in math.

Few to any kids are there when they enter. More importantly, you can't know what your kids are capable of if they haven't been challenged.

Very few DCPS or charter schools offer math acceleration. Our experience was that since our kids were above grade level (at a well regarded charter) they were essentially warehoused so teachers could focus on those in need. My kids were getting 4s on PARCC. When our kids got to BASIS their initial math tests put them in the mid-70th percentiles. By year end they were high 90s. They achieved those gains because BASIS demanded that they learn and threw material at them fast and furious.

The lesson here is NOT that my kids are geniuses. It is that DC hurts all kids by lowering standards across the board and holding no one to account for poor performance. There are lots of kids in terrible DCPS ES who could do amazing things if only they were given the chance. DCUM and much of the DC performative nonsense class would rather focus on the kids that struggle and move on from BASIS than the kids who are afforded an advanced education only because BASIS was an option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because BASIS is offers far more serious HS academics than any other DC public school other than the fast track at J-R and Walls for humanities subjects. I don't care for their AP cram school approach and didn't take the 5th grade spot we got, but there's no denying that their math and science middle and high school prep is head and shoulders above that offered at any other DC public school. There's also no denying that some of the black families EotP who would have gone with Banneker or a DCPS middle school like Stuart Hobson in the past now head to BASIS. Banneker doesn't seem to be getting any students into MIT, Cal Tech, Princeton engineering. BASIS does.
Banneker's mediocre STEM prep has lost its sheen with BASIS in town.

Umm..Banneker is a Humanities school just like Walls so I don't know where STEM prep comes in. I majored in math and Basis is not it. It's just kill and drill with no depth. I was very disappointed when we toured and didn't even bother. Sure it may be better than other DCPS MS in Math but nothing to write home about. Just go with a math tutor for the win.The majority of the kids that have gone to the good eng schools have followed that model.

Oh, you went to an open house and are now an expert on the math program at BASIS?

We actually have kids taking math at BASIS. What they are doing is far more advanced than what we were doing at the same age. No question in our mind that it offers the most advanced math curriculum among DC publics.

I’d argue many of those kids have a surface understanding of the math but not a deep conceptual understanding. I’ve taught many kids who left Basis after middle school. Some are great at math, some are okay and most were accelerated too quickly and the gaps really showed. Flame away but I have a relatively large sample size for my observations.

It seems very likely that both of these are true -- that a lot of kids who leave after middle school were accelerated too fast and that some kids, particularly kids who it works for and who stay, are legitimately getting taught much more advanced math than they would get elsewhere. It's too bad that there isn't a way for kids who would benefit from that acceleration to be guaranteed a way of accessing it in DC.

OK, where do you teach, what grade, and how many ex-Basis kids have you had?

This is all public. BASIS's slower math track starts kids on high school math in 7th grade. Last year, there were 49 sixth graders, or about 40% of the class, who scored below-proficient in sixth grade math. Those who stuck around got accelerated multiple years ahead of what they were ready for because that's BASIS's model. Many of those kids will wind up leaving. The charter school model doesn't allow schools to practice selective admissions or even tell parents "your kid will not succeed here", but it does allow them to have a curriculum that is developmentally inappropriate for most kids in DC and a good chunk of their students. It's very weird.

Not really.

Basis doesn’t socially promote or backfill, and teaches at a more advanced level than other public schools in DC. No surprise that kids leave.

And since Basis is 100% lottery there is also no surprise that not every kid in 5th and 6th grade is a math star. However, if you look at high school PARCC scores and average math SAT scores, after kids have been at Basis for a while, Basis is top in DC.

If you don’t think your kid can handle a rigorous curriculum, you don’t send them to Basis.

Also, they do math tracking so advanced kids can move ahead starting in 6th grade and slower kids can do less advanced work starting in 8th grade. So, contrary to your suggestion, not everyone is in lockstep.

Different but hardly “weird.”

Where this started was you were arguing that BASIS wasn't accelerating kids in math before they were ready. That's what this was about. And the "less advanced" work in 8th grade is the second year of high school math. You can think it's just fine that they do this, but of course they are pushing kids faster in math than many of them are ready for. The excellent test scores are partly a function of the entirely-predictable attrition of kids who weren't ready for the coursework.

Bolded is where the DC mentality pisses me off. A school that kids affirmatively choose to attend "pushes them too fast" but somehow the fact that the entirety of DCPS not pushing kids at all and refusing to track is no problem at all. Race to the bottom with a bunch of well meaning educatiotn "academics" ruining what's left of DC's public education.

“BASIS DC is bad because it is too rigorous for some kids.”

-Many posters here.

[Anonymous]

This was our experience too - significant improvements in math and ELA between the beginning and end of 5th grade at BASIS. People think their kids are bad at math because they have never received sufficient instruction or homework to develop those skills. Not every kid will turn out to be a genius at BASIS, but kids will at least try to reach their potential which may be much higher than parents realize.

At the same time, some parents do overestimate their kids’ abilities - that’s easy for parents to do when good middle school options are limited in DC and well educated parents have high expectations for their kids.

Even if students move on to other schools, I would think the executive functioning skills and work ethic developed at BASIS help in any future setting.

[Anonymous]

BASIS isn’t the only place DCPS ES students can pursue advanced math here in 2023. Our local Mathnasium branch on CH is packed, with kids freely working far ahead of grade level if they can handle it. We have friends in Upper NE and NW who send their middle schoolers to Kumon or Russian Math. Some kids work ahead on IXL and Khan Academy at home. Others work with math tutors or parents who can tutor themselves. Some of these kids will wind up at Banneker.

[Anonymous]

Like the point above. UMC DC families don’t need BASIS to save them academically, including the Banneker bound. Everything BASIS teaches to middle schoolers can readily be learned elsewhere if a family is determined to make the learning happen. BASIS doesn’t bother teaching modern languages until 8th grade, far too little too late. Don’t buy the BASIS hype.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like the point above. UMC DC families don’t need BASIS to save them academically, including the Banneker bound. Everything BASIS teaches to middle schoolers can readily be learned elsewhere if a family is determined to make the learning happen. BASIS doesn’t bother teaching modern languages until 8th grade, far too little too late. Don’t buy the BASIS hype.

The family has to include the kids. One of our kids does everything we say; we could have easily supplemented. It's a total fight to get the other to do anything other than the absolute minimum. Fortunately, the minimum at Basis is adequate - which it would not be at our neighborhood MS. As has been repeated, we didn't choose Basis because it is the greatest school ever, but because it's the best option for us in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like the point above. UMC DC families don’t need BASIS to save them academically, including the Banneker bound. Everything BASIS teaches to middle schoolers can readily be learned elsewhere if a family is determined to make the learning happen. BASIS doesn’t bother teaching modern languages until 8th grade, far too little too late. Don’t buy the BASIS hype.

True, but after a few years, it's pretty tiresome to seek out programs or effectively homeschool them on top of sending them to regular school. It's much easier for everyone when the school just handles everything, and the parents don't have to spend tons of extra time and money on enrichment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:BASIS isn’t the only place DCPS ES students can pursue advanced math here in 2023. Our local Mathnasium branch on CH is packed, with kids freely working far ahead of grade level if they can handle it. We have friends in Upper NE and NW who send their middle schoolers to Kumon or Russian Math. Some kids work ahead on IXL and Khan Academy at home. Others work with math tutors or parents who can tutor themselves. Some of these kids will wind up at Banneker.

So your view is that there's no benefit of being advanced in school if your kid can spend time and money outside of school to supplement? It's fine to just waste time in school math, which is now remedial for your kid, rather than being in an appropriate level and learning at school? I have the kid who took AP Calc in 8th grade at Basis. It was much easier and far superior to taking Calc through RSM or AoPS in 8th, but being stuck in Honors Geometry at school because the schools don't have the willingness or logistical ability to allow more acceleration.