B student

[Anonymous]

I am a professor at one of these smaller, "nothing" colleges. As a PP said above, I have the vaunted top IVY+ credentials that so many parents dream about, and feel lucky to have my teaching job. I love our students, who are in general B students, and think we do a great job in educating them and preparing them for the world. My own child will likely go to one of these schools. Once you get over the ego/bragging rights, these schools are great, trust me, and eminently affordable--we give LOTS of scholarships, merit and financial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a professor at one of these smaller, "nothing" colleges. As a PP said above, I have the vaunted top IVY+ credentials that so many parents dream about, and feel lucky to have my teaching job. I love our students, who are in general B students, and think we do a great job in educating them and preparing them for the world. My own child will likely go to one of these schools. Once you get over the ego/bragging rights, these schools are great, trust me, and eminently affordable--we give LOTS of scholarships, merit and financial.

We've been touring those *kinds* of schools. 3.2 UW, 1140 SAT, 3.7 W GPA. IB and AP classes.

I want our kid at one of those schools because I think they will allow the time and space for them to grow up and learn more things. Like many kids with those kinds of scores, ours is unbalanced: fantastic at some things, terrible at others. (The SAT score has a is wildly uneven split.) That doesn't mean they'd do well in community college, in fact I think they would not, they'd be bored to tears.

They need a school that will play to their strengths and not make them just another number.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a huge advocate for community college/upward transfer path, particularly for late bloomers and undecided majors. Your daughter will get lots of support, and her grades at community college will be a better indicator of future performance at a four year, not to mention that many of the state flagships have transfer agreements in place for associate degree earners. I say this as a person who has one kid with an Ivy degree and one who will take the two year to four year path. Both are valid options for higher education.

Community college sounds great on paper, but the reality is often quite different. I volunteer with organizations where a number of the students involved go to CC. From what I gather, the community colleges don't really provide a lot of support--and the grading can be very erratic. I know a lot of kids who started out thinking they were going to do a transfer to UVA, W&M etc. and all but one ended up at GMU (which most could have gotten into direct admit) or just got jobs they could get with a HS diploma and drifted out of CC. The one student I know who got all As in CC transferred into W&M and did really poorly once she got there--the quality expected in research and writing was just so much higher. It was devastating to her because she was a very hard worker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate posts like this more than anything. Poster after poster listing random schools, one after another. The truth is the large majority of schools in the United States accept kids with B averages. And for every school that is listed here, there are another hundred that are just as good. One poster listed University of Scranton, for example. It’s a fine Jesuit school, yes - and so are the 20 other Jesuit schools that take kids with B averages.

This is just a stupid stupid stupid waste of time.

If it’s a waste of time to you, spend your time elsewhere doing other things. I have one of these students and appreciate hearing others’ experiences and suggestions. It’s also somewhat reassuring and encouraging. This thread is actually more useful to me than most others on the DCUM college board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a B student. She floats between a 2.9 and a 3.1. She works hard for those grades and is bright but somehow never gets As. She is currently a sophomore. When I was younger, plenty of schools opened doors to B students. All the literature I'm reading makes me think things have changed. Are there very few schools that will take her with that type of GPA? She will be test optional as well. She is at a vigorous high school and there is no grade equity and she has to earn those grades. Does any school care about a B student who works hard?

When I was young only 5% of my class had an A average. It was kind of rare, but today A's are easier to earn. One third of my kid's class has a 4.0 even.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a professor at one of these smaller, "nothing" colleges. As a PP said above, I have the vaunted top IVY+ credentials that so many parents dream about, and feel lucky to have my teaching job. I love our students, who are in general B students, and think we do a great job in educating them and preparing them for the world. My own child will likely go to one of these schools. Once you get over the ego/bragging rights, these schools are great, trust me, and eminently affordable--we give LOTS of scholarships, merit and financial.

do they give merit aid to B- students? Because we definitely don't qualify for FA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a weird cohort that dominates the DCUM college board.

The "Top 10 for a computer science degree that gives you a 6 figure income by 22 or you're wasting your money" crowd.
I don't know any of them in real life.
We don't come from money and we had to earn every cent we have. We're currently middle class by DCUM standards and upper middle class by any other standard.
We (and everyone we know in real life---and this is a large cross section of professional class people--engineers, teachers, doctors, CEOs, nurses, etc) all have some money saved for college. We believe in paying for a 4 year degree. We don't need that degree to be from Harvard or UVA. We don't need it to be in computer science or pre-med. We are committed to paying that money for our kid's college experience... whatever that might turn out to be. We will pay what we can for Harvard or Vanderbilt or Temple or Tennessee or SCAD or Berklee. We won't consider our kids to be a failure or their life "off track" if they're not pulling down 6 figures by age 22. We won't be surprised if they switch directions or careers 4 times by age 30. We view life as a journey and our children's lives as something that we ultimately don't much (if any) have control over.

I like you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a B student. She floats between a 2.9 and a 3.1. She works hard for those grades and is bright but somehow never gets As. She is currently a sophomore. When I was younger, plenty of schools opened doors to B students. All the literature I'm reading makes me think things have changed. Are there very few schools that will take her with that type of GPA? She will be test optional as well. She is at a vigorous high school and there is no grade equity and she has to earn those grades. Does any school care about a B student who works hard?

2.9 means some Cs? Or some B-'s?

Weighted or unweighted?
Honors or on-level?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ignore the community college idiots. The horror that a B student should go to a 4-year college. What world are you people living in that’s it’s only UVA or CC?

the "horror" is paying a small fortune for a nothing college. I'm not in VA. I think it's fine to pay in state tuition for those other VA colleges, but some people on here seem to be telling OP to send their kids to OOS and/or expensive private college because those colleges don't care that much about grades as much as how much you are willing to pay. Really? You'd want your kid to go to such a college?

BTW, I went to a no name state U, but I paid in state and commuted. I've read some posts on this forum of people telling an OP to consider that no name state U and pay OOS. That is absolutely insane.

Some people have more money than sense.

And what are you going to do with the money? Buy more things? Buy a larger house? Put in in the bank and... make more money?

How empty and pointless. I bet you don't travel either. Because that costs money and you're only left with memories.

Listen, most of us are HAPPY to gift our children the college experience. There is nothing material that I could buy that would bring me more joy.
I don't think you get this and I don't get you.

Nope, I'm frugal. I don't need things to make me happy. I love to travel, actually. That's where my money goes.

So, you're wrong on so many fronts.

Also, who said I didn't want my kid to go to college. I absolutely do, and I'm making sure DC is on track to go to college. But, I'm not paying a small fortune to go oos for a nothing college. I'm happy to pay for in state, or OOS for a great college, but who would be dumb enough to pay for OOS or full pay private for a C rated college.

This is your problem. You don't realize how good these schools outside of the top ones are. Many educate students very well; their graduates learn important ways of thinking and get good jobs. It's extremely hard to get a faculty position anywhere so they are going to have faculty with PhDs from top-tier institutions. The differences in ranking have very little to do with the quality of education your child will receive or their future career outcomes (other than not as easily getting recruited for Wall street, big consulting firms or big tech etc.) They are lower ranked because they fall slightly lower than the others in pulling in top research dollars, in creating a reputation among other scholars, in funding Pell Grant recipients etc. But they are very good at taking average kids like your DC, educating them and preparing them for adult life and on average they are associated with a significant lifetime income boost as well as health and other social outcomes boost over kids who did not go to a 4 year college. That your kid comes in with resources and support will make their outcomes even better than average. Fortunately too there are many OOS and private schools that provide merit aid in ways that they don't cost more--or not much more than going in-state.

? I went to no name state u. I'm fully aware of good college outside of T10. My DC is at UMD.

Do you think a low B student could get merit aid from those private colleges? Which ones are those?

Yes, depending on where s/he stands relative to her peers in HS and the rigor of course schedule. Private LACs are also going to be more sensitive to differences between school quality and spend more time looking through the details of the application. If your school doesn't weight GPA, I would look at LACs in the 50-90 range. There are some really good schools among those if she likes a SLAC and virtually no one pays the sticker price except people who are very wealthy with kids who have lowish GPAs. Look at Selingo's resources on "buyers and sellers" to get a sense of how much aid and what kind the schools provide. There's really a wide range and some OOS private universities With a low B student it might not get down to the same cost as in-state public, but if it were the perfect school for them it might be a far better ROI in terms of outcome for not THAT much more money. Or not. I think there are likely great in-state options too that are more likely a sure financial bet. It's a nuanced judgment. But your choice often isn't paying a fortune vs not--it's paying 10% more vs not.
I can't predict your outcomes. I just bristled at your calling schools--"nothing colleges" etc. when many are really amazing institutions doing really good work. Ranking systems make people believe that the top ranked schools are so much better than the lower ranked schools when they are not.

ok, so give a real example of a private college for a B student from a public school, along with the amount of merit that was given, and what the HHI was? I think that is more helpful than a generic statement.

College of Wooster, HHI income 275k, 30k merit offer, End of junior year wGPA 3.47, test optional. Brought tuition down to around 25k.

The COA is $73K per year, per their website. Unless your kid is planning to commute to college, the real COA is $73K/year.

https://wooster.edu/admissions/afford/tuition-and-aid/

A 30k/year merit offer would still be $43K + travel, and other, so ~$45k/year. That is more expensive than in state tuition at a lower tiered in state u.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a professor at one of these smaller, "nothing" colleges. As a PP said above, I have the vaunted top IVY+ credentials that so many parents dream about, and feel lucky to have my teaching job. I love our students, who are in general B students, and think we do a great job in educating them and preparing them for the world. My own child will likely go to one of these schools. Once you get over the ego/bragging rights, these schools are great, trust me, and eminently affordable--we give LOTS of scholarships, merit and financial.

what is "lots"?

How can these tiny colleges be giving out so much aid that it brings the real COA to the same level as in state tuition?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Ignore the community college idiots. The horror that a B student should go to a 4-year college. What world are you people living in that’s it’s only UVA or CC?

the "horror" is paying a small fortune for a nothing college. I'm not in VA. I think it's fine to pay in state tuition for those other VA colleges, but some people on here seem to be telling OP to send their kids to OOS and/or expensive private college because those colleges don't care that much about grades as much as how much you are willing to pay. Really? You'd want your kid to go to such a college?

BTW, I went to a no name state U, but I paid in state and commuted. I've read some posts on this forum of people telling an OP to consider that no name state U and pay OOS. That is absolutely insane.

Some people have more money than sense.

And what are you going to do with the money? Buy more things? Buy a larger house? Put in in the bank and... make more money?

How empty and pointless. I bet you don't travel either. Because that costs money and you're only left with memories.

Listen, most of us are HAPPY to gift our children the college experience. There is nothing material that I could buy that would bring me more joy.
I don't think you get this and I don't get you.

Nope, I'm frugal. I don't need things to make me happy. I love to travel, actually. That's where my money goes.

So, you're wrong on so many fronts.

Also, who said I didn't want my kid to go to college. I absolutely do, and I'm making sure DC is on track to go to college. But, I'm not paying a small fortune to go oos for a nothing college. I'm happy to pay for in state, or OOS for a great college, but who would be dumb enough to pay for OOS or full pay private for a C rated college.

This is your problem. You don't realize how good these schools outside of the top ones are. Many educate students very well; their graduates learn important ways of thinking and get good jobs. It's extremely hard to get a faculty position anywhere so they are going to have faculty with PhDs from top-tier institutions. The differences in ranking have very little to do with the quality of education your child will receive or their future career outcomes (other than not as easily getting recruited for Wall street, big consulting firms or big tech etc.) They are lower ranked because they fall slightly lower than the others in pulling in top research dollars, in creating a reputation among other scholars, in funding Pell Grant recipients etc. But they are very good at taking average kids like your DC, educating them and preparing them for adult life and on average they are associated with a significant lifetime income boost as well as health and other social outcomes boost over kids who did not go to a 4 year college. That your kid comes in with resources and support will make their outcomes even better than average. Fortunately too there are many OOS and private schools that provide merit aid in ways that they don't cost more--or not much more than going in-state.

? I went to no name state u. I'm fully aware of good college outside of T10. My DC is at UMD.

Do you think a low B student could get merit aid from those private colleges? Which ones are those?

Yes, depending on where s/he stands relative to her peers in HS and the rigor of course schedule. Private LACs are also going to be more sensitive to differences between school quality and spend more time looking through the details of the application. If your school doesn't weight GPA, I would look at LACs in the 50-90 range. There are some really good schools among those if she likes a SLAC and virtually no one pays the sticker price except people who are very wealthy with kids who have lowish GPAs. Look at Selingo's resources on "buyers and sellers" to get a sense of how much aid and what kind the schools provide. There's really a wide range and some OOS private universities With a low B student it might not get down to the same cost as in-state public, but if it were the perfect school for them it might be a far better ROI in terms of outcome for not THAT much more money. Or not. I think there are likely great in-state options too that are more likely a sure financial bet. It's a nuanced judgment. But your choice often isn't paying a fortune vs not--it's paying 10% more vs not.
I can't predict your outcomes. I just bristled at your calling schools--"nothing colleges" etc. when many are really amazing institutions doing really good work. Ranking systems make people believe that the top ranked schools are so much better than the lower ranked schools when they are not.

ok, so give a real example of a private college for a B student from a public school, along with the amount of merit that was given, and what the HHI was? I think that is more helpful than a generic statement.

College of Wooster, HHI income 275k, 30k merit offer, End of junior year wGPA 3.47, test optional. Brought tuition down to around 25k.

The COA is $73K per year, per their website. Unless your kid is planning to commute to college, the real COA is $73K/year.

https://wooster.edu/admissions/afford/tuition-and-aid/

A 30k/year merit offer would still be $43K + travel, and other, so ~$45k/year. That is more expensive than in state tuition at a lower tiered in state u.

Well when we were given the offer the total cost of attendance (including room, board, books, travel--so you don't have to add 2k etc.) was 70k, 30k put it at 40k --which was at the cost of several in-state publics in VA. UVA is around 40-45k depending on major and year, WM 43k.
Sure, you can get a cheaper in-state public--total cost of attendance: VT 37k, GMU 31k, JMU 32k, VCU 39k. And my kid wasn't getting into UVA, WM, VT and would thrive more in a SLAC with personalized attention so it's a better fit than GMU, JMU, VCU.
My point is that the choice isn't in-state public dirt cheap vs. OOS small fortune--rather--as I said--it can be about 10% more for a school even for not the strongest student. The SLAC my DC ended up going to actually ended up costing 35k/yr total cost of attendance with merit aid which was below many in-state-- but I don't want to "out" her since we don't know anyone else that goes there from around here. She's thriving there and has gotten additional money since for paid travel and paid research opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ignore the community college idiots. The horror that a B student should go to a 4-year college. What world are you people living in that’s it’s only UVA or CC?

the "horror" is paying a small fortune for a nothing college. I'm not in VA. I think it's fine to pay in state tuition for those other VA colleges, but some people on here seem to be telling OP to send their kids to OOS and/or expensive private college because those colleges don't care that much about grades as much as how much you are willing to pay. Really? You'd want your kid to go to such a college?

BTW, I went to a no name state U, but I paid in state and commuted. I've read some posts on this forum of people telling an OP to consider that no name state U and pay OOS. That is absolutely insane.

Some people have more money than sense.

And what are you going to do with the money? Buy more things? Buy a larger house? Put in in the bank and... make more money?

How empty and pointless. I bet you don't travel either. Because that costs money and you're only left with memories.

Listen, most of us are HAPPY to gift our children the college experience. There is nothing material that I could buy that would bring me more joy.
I don't think you get this and I don't get you.

Nope, I'm frugal. I don't need things to make me happy. I love to travel, actually. That's where my money goes.

So, you're wrong on so many fronts.

Also, who said I didn't want my kid to go to college. I absolutely do, and I'm making sure DC is on track to go to college. But, I'm not paying a small fortune to go oos for a nothing college. I'm happy to pay for in state, or OOS for a great college, but who would be dumb enough to pay for OOS or full pay private for a C rated college.

This is so offensive and close minded. It’s not “dumb” for a rich parent to pay a lot of money for a private college if it’s the right fit for their kid. Some kids will do well just about anywhere, but others need just the right kind of school. Denying a kid that opportunity because you’re stubbornly frugal is…dumb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I will just share my experience.

My son has 3.4. So basically B plus and shade below A minus.

He didn’t take many honors and APs

I assumed a B plus would be find. ESP for big state school which is what he wants.

Unfortunately not the case. Totally dismayed at the number of state schools that I thought were safeties that we are being told he probably won’t be excepted at. And his ACT score was fine and equivalent to what a B plus student would be.

So maybe share the stats with your DD now so she gets it. And start managing expectations. Many many good schools that will take her as other have mentioned. But not the ones you probably thought would.

Sigh. Yes it really makes us frustrated with our private school and it tough grading system.

what school is this? A DC Big3?

DC Top 5

If your kid is at a DC top 5, I would recommend including a few private reach schools on the list - especially if your chid can apply ED and especially if your kid can get some high test scores. Try both the ACT and the SAT. For a full pay private school kid, I would also consider Trinity, Connecticut College, Lewis & Clark. I would also try to leverage gender and/ or geography: I would look at LACs for a boy and maybe avoid them and look at more techy schools for a girl (schools like RIT).

FWIW, I wouldn't follow that theory religiously. LACs seem to take boys who are recruited athletes. Our theater boy with above range stats was rejected at 3 out of 4 LACs, but accepted at every techy school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ignore the community college idiots. The horror that a B student should go to a 4-year college. What world are you people living in that’s it’s only UVA or CC?

the "horror" is paying a small fortune for a nothing college. I'm not in VA. I think it's fine to pay in state tuition for those other VA colleges, but some people on here seem to be telling OP to send their kids to OOS and/or expensive private college because those colleges don't care that much about grades as much as how much you are willing to pay. Really? You'd want your kid to go to such a college?

BTW, I went to a no name state U, but I paid in state and commuted. I've read some posts on this forum of people telling an OP to consider that no name state U and pay OOS. That is absolutely insane.

Some people have more money than sense.

And what are you going to do with the money? Buy more things? Buy a larger house? Put in in the bank and... make more money?

How empty and pointless. I bet you don't travel either. Because that costs money and you're only left with memories.

Listen, most of us are HAPPY to gift our children the college experience. There is nothing material that I could buy that would bring me more joy.
I don't think you get this and I don't get you.

Nope, I'm frugal. I don't need things to make me happy. I love to travel, actually. That's where my money goes.

So, you're wrong on so many fronts.

Also, who said I didn't want my kid to go to college. I absolutely do, and I'm making sure DC is on track to go to college. But, I'm not paying a small fortune to go oos for a nothing college. I'm happy to pay for in state, or OOS for a great college, but who would be dumb enough to pay for OOS or full pay private for a C rated college.

This is so offensive and close minded. It’s not “dumb” for a rich parent to pay a lot of money for a private college if it’s the right fit for their kid. Some kids will do well just about anywhere, but others need just the right kind of school. Denying a kid that opportunity because you’re stubbornly frugal is…dumb.

"A fool and his money are easily parted".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a huge advocate for community college/upward transfer path, particularly for late bloomers and undecided majors. Your daughter will get lots of support, and her grades at community college will be a better indicator of future performance at a four year, not to mention that many of the state flagships have transfer agreements in place for associate degree earners. I say this as a person who has one kid with an Ivy degree and one who will take the two year to four year path. Both are valid options for higher education.

Community college sounds great on paper, but the reality is often quite different. I volunteer with organizations where a number of the students involved go to CC. From what I gather, the community colleges don't really provide a lot of support--and the grading can be very erratic. I know a lot of kids who started out thinking they were going to do a transfer to UVA, W&M etc. and all but one ended up at GMU (which most could have gotten into direct admit) or just got jobs they could get with a HS diploma and drifted out of CC. The one student I know who got all As in CC transferred into W&M and did really poorly once she got there--the quality expected in research and writing was just so much higher. It was devastating to her because she was a very hard worker.

I work at a community college and I disagree. The classes are smaller, professors are teachers - not TAs, and the majority are invested in student success. I have mentorship programs, internships, academic supports, intrusive advising and lots of other tools to help prepare these students for success at four year schools.