Antisemitic incident at Blair

[Anonymous]

Do people realize you can. It expell a kid from public school. The only thing they do is move the kid to a different nearby school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do people realize you can. It expell a kid from public school. The only thing they do is move the kid to a different nearby school.

Mcps can, but they refuse to because of their false sense of equity and racism. But, when the racism is against Jews, muslins and Asians apparently mcps and some adults think it’s ok. And, then they wonder why families go private. Our kids should not have to be subjected to this.

[Anonymous]

Re "sweeping it under the rug": Seems to me that this depends on something the article and letter do not address: WHEN did the incident occur? If it happened Thursday or Friday, seems like this was swift appropriate action to notify the community and involve the police. If it happened two weeks ago and the letter only when out, prompting the article, after people complained, that would be a problem. We just don't know.

And, while abhorrent, my read of the current law is that an arm movement would not qualify as a hate crime. Particularly if it wasn't done "at" someone with the intent to intimidate or threaten. Maybe it should, but it doesn't...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Re "sweeping it under the rug": Seems to me that this depends on something the article and letter do not address: WHEN did the incident occur? If it happened Thursday or Friday, seems like this was swift appropriate action to notify the community and involve the police. If it happened two weeks ago and the letter only when out, prompting the article, after people complained, that would be a problem. We just don't know.

And, while abhorrent, my read of the current law is that an arm movement would not qualify as a hate crime. Particularly if it wasn't done "at" someone with the intent to intimidate or threaten. Maybe it should, but it doesn't...

It was conveniently done around the Jewish holidays. Kids behave this way as the adults either don’t care or encourage it. If it was done to other groups mcps would take a stand. But hate is ok to Jews, Asians and Muslims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Re "sweeping it under the rug": Seems to me that this depends on something the article and letter do not address: WHEN did the incident occur? If it happened Thursday or Friday, seems like this was swift appropriate action to notify the community and involve the police. If it happened two weeks ago and the letter only when out, prompting the article, after people complained, that would be a problem. We just don't know.

And, while abhorrent, my read of the current law is that an arm movement would not qualify as a hate crime. Particularly if it wasn't done "at" someone with the intent to intimidate or threaten. Maybe it should, but it doesn't...

This goes on at the W's almost monthly and although you can find dozens of posts about it here nothing is ever done to change anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Re "sweeping it under the rug": Seems to me that this depends on something the article and letter do not address: WHEN did the incident occur? If it happened Thursday or Friday, seems like this was swift appropriate action to notify the community and involve the police. If it happened two weeks ago and the letter only when out, prompting the article, after people complained, that would be a problem. We just don't know.

And, while abhorrent, my read of the current law is that an arm movement would not qualify as a hate crime. Particularly if it wasn't done "at" someone with the intent to intimidate or threaten. Maybe it should, but it doesn't...

This goes on at the W's almost monthly and although you can find dozens of posts about it here nothing is ever done to change anything.

There is no excuse for this happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My kids went/go to Bethesda-area MCPS schools. There have been swastikas drawn on walls and desks over the years.

Nazi symbols are co-opted by kids who want to rebel against "the establishment". I very much doubt that they are specifically antisemitic, or anti-Israel or anti-Jew. I do not believe that this wealthy area, full of opportunities for everyone, has a population that suffers economically such that they would need to level hate against a specific group. I would like to remind you that historically, that sort of backlash happens under intense stress - Covid lockdowns for anti-Asian crimes, severe economic and social trauma in pre-WWII Germany leading to the rise of the Nazi party.

Un-prepared or rebellious adolescents who are bored and looking to find themselves and belong to a tribe will lash out against LGBT+, Jews, Muslims, any group perceived to be "other" than the tribe they aspire to belong to.

Exercises in wellness and tolerance can be a double-edged sword, because you can certainly educate the majority of kids who respect authority, but you're pushing the rebels to act out just because they've been told not to.

So in that context, a swastika isn't a "I hate Jews" sort of thing, but a "I just had yet another stupid assembly and I'm going to spray a swastika on this school wall to let everyone know I won't be brainwashed." The symbol is guaranteed to provoke everybody. If there was an easy anti-LGBT symbol, or an easy anti-Muslim symbol, they'd use them too! This is why the "gay" slur is the verbal equivalent of the sprayed swastika. The kids are looking to trigger their communities into outrage. They're little trolls.

The response has to be consistent education on tolerance. But it shouldn't lead you to clutch your pearls and panic, because otherwise you're just giving them what they want: attention.

If this was anti LGBT, this would be dealt with. Any hate against Jews, Muslims and Asians gets ignored. I don't care what the reason is. MCPS is claiming to they don't tolerate hate when they just don't tolerate it for specific groups that they are impacted by or scream the loudest.

The police were called, there is an investigation, a letter was sent to the Blair families, and now a news article. What more do you want?!?

Criminal charges for hate crimes, expulsion, suspension to start with.

What crime was committed? Vandalism?

As for school punishment, even kids who brutally beat up another kid don't get expulsion, so why should a non-violent offense garner such a severe punishment?

This is a case for RJ. No one was hurt, but the offender does need to learn a lesson.

What do you mean no one was hurt? They put fear in many students. Enough is enough.

But from what I see, the only crime committed, at most, was vandalism.

All this talk of locking them up... for what crime? "Hate crime" isn't a specific charge.

Actually it is and there is a special hate crimes unit.

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/SAO/other/hatecrimes.html

Here's a list of hate crimes:

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/SAO/other/hatecrimes.html#WhatConstitutesAHateCrime

Based on what happened at Blair, nothing would fall under that list as being illegal... because of the first amendment.

This is the answer. It’s not illegal (in MoCo) to use the n word or do a Nazi salute. MCPS may have different rules, but as far as crimes go, none were committed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Re "sweeping it under the rug": Seems to me that this depends on something the article and letter do not address: WHEN did the incident occur? If it happened Thursday or Friday, seems like this was swift appropriate action to notify the community and involve the police. If it happened two weeks ago and the letter only when out, prompting the article, after people complained, that would be a problem. We just don't know.

And, while abhorrent, my read of the current law is that an arm movement would not qualify as a hate crime. Particularly if it wasn't done "at" someone with the intent to intimidate or threaten. Maybe it should, but it doesn't...

It was conveniently done around the Jewish holidays. Kids behave this way as the adults either don’t care or encourage it. If it was done to other groups mcps would take a stand. But hate is ok to Jews, Asians and Muslims.

This doesn't address my point or my question? If this happened on Friday, what would you really expect to have been done more or different by Sunday?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Horrible. There was a recent incident at Loiderman middle school where an antisemitic symbol was found drawn in a folder in the art room. From my understanding they do not know who drew it. The principal sent a message home. We need to do better as a society. It was a teachable moment for my middle and elementary school kids to recognize symbols of hate and to know why they are harmful

We don't need teachable moments. We need strong consequences. If parents and schools did not teach them by MS that this isn't ok, then they don't belong in the schools. Not surprising this happened at LMS.

Totally agree but MCPS has made a long standing commitment to not having consequences. That is why so much destructive behavior and actions happen. That definitely won't change under McKnight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My kids went/go to Bethesda-area MCPS schools. There have been swastikas drawn on walls and desks over the years.

Nazi symbols are co-opted by kids who want to rebel against "the establishment". I very much doubt that they are specifically antisemitic, or anti-Israel or anti-Jew. I do not believe that this wealthy area, full of opportunities for everyone, has a population that suffers economically such that they would need to level hate against a specific group. I would like to remind you that historically, that sort of backlash happens under intense stress - Covid lockdowns for anti-Asian crimes, severe economic and social trauma in pre-WWII Germany leading to the rise of the Nazi party.

Un-prepared or rebellious adolescents who are bored and looking to find themselves and belong to a tribe will lash out against LGBT+, Jews, Muslims, any group perceived to be "other" than the tribe they aspire to belong to.

Exercises in wellness and tolerance can be a double-edged sword, because you can certainly educate the majority of kids who respect authority, but you're pushing the rebels to act out just because they've been told not to.

So in that context, a swastika isn't a "I hate Jews" sort of thing, but a "I just had yet another stupid assembly and I'm going to spray a swastika on this school wall to let everyone know I won't be brainwashed." The symbol is guaranteed to provoke everybody. If there was an easy anti-LGBT symbol, or an easy anti-Muslim symbol, they'd use them too! This is why the "gay" slur is the verbal equivalent of the sprayed swastika. The kids are looking to trigger their communities into outrage. They're little trolls.

The response has to be consistent education on tolerance. But it shouldn't lead you to clutch your pearls and panic, because otherwise you're just giving them what they want: attention.

If this was anti LGBT, this would be dealt with. Any hate against Jews, Muslims and Asians gets ignored. I don't care what the reason is. MCPS is claiming to they don't tolerate hate when they just don't tolerate it for specific groups that they are impacted by or scream the loudest.

The police were called, there is an investigation, a letter was sent to the Blair families, and now a news article. What more do you want?!?

Criminal charges for hate crimes, expulsion, suspension to start with.

What crime was committed? Vandalism?

As for school punishment, even kids who brutally beat up another kid don't get expulsion, so why should a non-violent offense garner such a severe punishment?

This is a case for RJ. No one was hurt, but the offender does need to learn a lesson.

What do you mean no one was hurt? They put fear in many students. Enough is enough.

But from what I see, the only crime committed, at most, was vandalism.

All this talk of locking them up... for what crime? "Hate crime" isn't a specific charge.

Actually it is and there is a special hate crimes unit.

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/SAO/other/hatecrimes.html

Here's a list of hate crimes:

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/SAO/other/hatecrimes.html#WhatConstitutesAHateCrime

Based on what happened at Blair, nothing would fall under that list as being illegal... because of the first amendment.

This is the answer. It’s not illegal (in MoCo) to use the n word or do a Nazi salute. MCPS may have different rules, but as far as crimes go, none were committed.

Not only in MoCo. It is not illegal anywhere in the US, thanks to the first amendment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My kids went/go to Bethesda-area MCPS schools. There have been swastikas drawn on walls and desks over the years.

Nazi symbols are co-opted by kids who want to rebel against "the establishment". I very much doubt that they are specifically antisemitic, or anti-Israel or anti-Jew. I do not believe that this wealthy area, full of opportunities for everyone, has a population that suffers economically such that they would need to level hate against a specific group. I would like to remind you that historically, that sort of backlash happens under intense stress - Covid lockdowns for anti-Asian crimes, severe economic and social trauma in pre-WWII Germany leading to the rise of the Nazi party.

Un-prepared or rebellious adolescents who are bored and looking to find themselves and belong to a tribe will lash out against LGBT+, Jews, Muslims, any group perceived to be "other" than the tribe they aspire to belong to.

Exercises in wellness and tolerance can be a double-edged sword, because you can certainly educate the majority of kids who respect authority, but you're pushing the rebels to act out just because they've been told not to.

So in that context, a swastika isn't a "I hate Jews" sort of thing, but a "I just had yet another stupid assembly and I'm going to spray a swastika on this school wall to let everyone know I won't be brainwashed." The symbol is guaranteed to provoke everybody. If there was an easy anti-LGBT symbol, or an easy anti-Muslim symbol, they'd use them too! This is why the "gay" slur is the verbal equivalent of the sprayed swastika. The kids are looking to trigger their communities into outrage. They're little trolls.

The response has to be consistent education on tolerance. But it shouldn't lead you to clutch your pearls and panic, because otherwise you're just giving them what they want: attention.

If this was anti LGBT, this would be dealt with. Any hate against Jews, Muslims and Asians gets ignored. I don't care what the reason is. MCPS is claiming to they don't tolerate hate when they just don't tolerate it for specific groups that they are impacted by or scream the loudest.

The police were called, there is an investigation, a letter was sent to the Blair families, and now a news article. What more do you want?!?

Criminal charges for hate crimes, expulsion, suspension to start with.

What crime was committed? Vandalism?

As for school punishment, even kids who brutally beat up another kid don't get expulsion, so why should a non-violent offense garner such a severe punishment?

This is a case for RJ. No one was hurt, but the offender does need to learn a lesson.

What do you mean no one was hurt? They put fear in many students. Enough is enough.

But from what I see, the only crime committed, at most, was vandalism.

All this talk of locking them up... for what crime? "Hate crime" isn't a specific charge.

Actually it is and there is a special hate crimes unit.

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/SAO/other/hatecrimes.html

Here's a list of hate crimes:

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/SAO/other/hatecrimes.html#WhatConstitutesAHateCrime

Based on what happened at Blair, nothing would fall under that list as being illegal... because of the first amendment.

This is the answer. It’s not illegal (in MoCo) to use the n word or do a Nazi salute. MCPS may have different rules, but as far as crimes go, none were committed.

Not only in MoCo. It is not illegal anywhere in the US, thanks to the first amendment.

As it should be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree the fact incident is concerning and the involved students should be disciplined.

But I also think it's possible-to-likely that the incident was kids being stupid and ignorant, but not actually anti-Semitic. My experience with other people in this area makes me think it's unlikely that a group of students at Blair are starting some kind of Nazi club. The way the incident is described makes me think there's some likelihood they didn't realize that what they were doing looked like a Nazi salute to others. They were scene doing it together while posing for a picture. Does anyone actually think a group of students at Blair were like "let's take a picture of ourselves doing a Nazi salute in theiddle of the day in campus!"?

This is different from the incidents of anti-Semitic graffiti at other MoCo schools, acts committed at night and which are clearly intended as hate speech. It's not hard to imagine an angry, wrong headed individual doing that, while obviously making an effort not to get caught

What are the odds this was a group of kids doing a dance move or attempting a "cool" pose for a photo, and just didn't realize it looked like they were heiling Hitler?

Blair parent here and I agree. A Hitler salute could easily be a dance move or a regular salute. Given the reaction though I wonder if it was more than that? Eg directed at Jewish students, knowingly a Hitler salute or accompanied by Nazi or antisemitic language?

You realize you’re minimizing antisemitism, right? Would you do that if the kids were doing something anti-Asian or anti-Black?

No if it was clearly anti Asian or anti black. You realize Hitler targeted other races too don’t you? A Hitler salute is offensive to blacks, gays, Gypsys, the disabled and many others targeted by Hitler. Many members of my family were interred and some died in Nazi concentration camps, and more were executed by the Nazis.

Again, I think there’s more to this story than we know - there must be evidence that it was more than just a raised right hand that could be easily misinterpreted.

I have family members who were killed by the Nazis too. My dad’s entire side of the family is in this country because of pogroms by the Soviets against Ukrainian Jews in Odessa.

So don’t lecture me about antisemitism.

1) I’m not lecturing you, responding to you lecturing me.
2) I’m not Jewish, neither were any of my (close) family members who were murdered (some by firing squad) by the Nazis for their efforts to protect Jewish people during the war, or who were sent to concentration camps because of who they were. This was not that long ago - some of the survivors only died in the past couple of years - I personally heard their stories and I personally saw the life long impact, that was both emotional and physical.

No one is saying the Nazis only targeted Jews.

And the fact that you feel you need to tell me it wasn’t that long ago is highly offensive. Trust me — I know.

I’m talking about MY experience talking to MY aunts and uncles and witnessing their trauma and loss and even life long physical disability due to the Nazis. How that is highly offensive I don’t know, but you need to get a grip.

You didn’t need to say “this wasn’t that long ago” to a Jewish person. Have some sensitivity.

FFS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Re "sweeping it under the rug": Seems to me that this depends on something the article and letter do not address: WHEN did the incident occur? If it happened Thursday or Friday, seems like this was swift appropriate action to notify the community and involve the police. If it happened two weeks ago and the letter only when out, prompting the article, after people complained, that would be a problem. We just don't know.

And, while abhorrent, my read of the current law is that an arm movement would not qualify as a hate crime. Particularly if it wasn't done "at" someone with the intent to intimidate or threaten. Maybe it should, but it doesn't...

It was conveniently done around the Jewish holidays. Kids behave this way as the adults either don’t care or encourage it. If it was done to other groups mcps would take a stand. But hate is ok to Jews, Asians and Muslims.

This doesn't address my point or my question? If this happened on Friday, what would you really expect to have been done more or different by Sunday?

I would expect the kids to be suspended, especially given the timing around the holidays. You seriously think this is ok?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My kids went/go to Bethesda-area MCPS schools. There have been swastikas drawn on walls and desks over the years.

Nazi symbols are co-opted by kids who want to rebel against "the establishment". I very much doubt that they are specifically antisemitic, or anti-Israel or anti-Jew. I do not believe that this wealthy area, full of opportunities for everyone, has a population that suffers economically such that they would need to level hate against a specific group. I would like to remind you that historically, that sort of backlash happens under intense stress - Covid lockdowns for anti-Asian crimes, severe economic and social trauma in pre-WWII Germany leading to the rise of the Nazi party.

Un-prepared or rebellious adolescents who are bored and looking to find themselves and belong to a tribe will lash out against LGBT+, Jews, Muslims, any group perceived to be "other" than the tribe they aspire to belong to.

Exercises in wellness and tolerance can be a double-edged sword, because you can certainly educate the majority of kids who respect authority, but you're pushing the rebels to act out just because they've been told not to.

So in that context, a swastika isn't a "I hate Jews" sort of thing, but a "I just had yet another stupid assembly and I'm going to spray a swastika on this school wall to let everyone know I won't be brainwashed." The symbol is guaranteed to provoke everybody. If there was an easy anti-LGBT symbol, or an easy anti-Muslim symbol, they'd use them too! This is why the "gay" slur is the verbal equivalent of the sprayed swastika. The kids are looking to trigger their communities into outrage. They're little trolls.

The response has to be consistent education on tolerance. But it shouldn't lead you to clutch your pearls and panic, because otherwise you're just giving them what they want: attention.

If this was anti LGBT, this would be dealt with. Any hate against Jews, Muslims and Asians gets ignored. I don't care what the reason is. MCPS is claiming to they don't tolerate hate when they just don't tolerate it for specific groups that they are impacted by or scream the loudest.

The police were called, there is an investigation, a letter was sent to the Blair families, and now a news article. What more do you want?!?

Criminal charges for hate crimes, expulsion, suspension to start with.

What crime was committed? Vandalism?

As for school punishment, even kids who brutally beat up another kid don't get expulsion, so why should a non-violent offense garner such a severe punishment?

This is a case for RJ. No one was hurt, but the offender does need to learn a lesson.

What do you mean no one was hurt? They put fear in many students. Enough is enough.

But from what I see, the only crime committed, at most, was vandalism.

All this talk of locking them up... for what crime? "Hate crime" isn't a specific charge.

Actually it is and there is a special hate crimes unit.

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/SAO/other/hatecrimes.html

Here's a list of hate crimes:

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/SAO/other/hatecrimes.html#WhatConstitutesAHateCrime

Based on what happened at Blair, nothing would fall under that list as being illegal... because of the first amendment.

This is the answer. It’s not illegal (in MoCo) to use the n word or do a Nazi salute. MCPS may have different rules, but as far as crimes go, none were committed.

Not only in MoCo. It is not illegal anywhere in the US, thanks to the first amendment.

It is a targeted hate crime used to intimidate and threaten.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My kids went/go to Bethesda-area MCPS schools. There have been swastikas drawn on walls and desks over the years.

Nazi symbols are co-opted by kids who want to rebel against "the establishment". I very much doubt that they are specifically antisemitic, or anti-Israel or anti-Jew. I do not believe that this wealthy area, full of opportunities for everyone, has a population that suffers economically such that they would need to level hate against a specific group. I would like to remind you that historically, that sort of backlash happens under intense stress - Covid lockdowns for anti-Asian crimes, severe economic and social trauma in pre-WWII Germany leading to the rise of the Nazi party.

Un-prepared or rebellious adolescents who are bored and looking to find themselves and belong to a tribe will lash out against LGBT+, Jews, Muslims, any group perceived to be "other" than the tribe they aspire to belong to.

Exercises in wellness and tolerance can be a double-edged sword, because you can certainly educate the majority of kids who respect authority, but you're pushing the rebels to act out just because they've been told not to.

So in that context, a swastika isn't a "I hate Jews" sort of thing, but a "I just had yet another stupid assembly and I'm going to spray a swastika on this school wall to let everyone know I won't be brainwashed." The symbol is guaranteed to provoke everybody. If there was an easy anti-LGBT symbol, or an easy anti-Muslim symbol, they'd use them too! This is why the "gay" slur is the verbal equivalent of the sprayed swastika. The kids are looking to trigger their communities into outrage. They're little trolls.

The response has to be consistent education on tolerance. But it shouldn't lead you to clutch your pearls and panic, because otherwise you're just giving them what they want: attention.

If this was anti LGBT, this would be dealt with. Any hate against Jews, Muslims and Asians gets ignored. I don't care what the reason is. MCPS is claiming to they don't tolerate hate when they just don't tolerate it for specific groups that they are impacted by or scream the loudest.

The police were called, there is an investigation, a letter was sent to the Blair families, and now a news article. What more do you want?!?

Criminal charges for hate crimes, expulsion, suspension to start with.

What crime was committed? Vandalism?

As for school punishment, even kids who brutally beat up another kid don't get expulsion, so why should a non-violent offense garner such a severe punishment?

This is a case for RJ. No one was hurt, but the offender does need to learn a lesson.

What do you mean no one was hurt? They put fear in many students. Enough is enough.

But from what I see, the only crime committed, at most, was vandalism.

All this talk of locking them up... for what crime? "Hate crime" isn't a specific charge.

Actually it is and there is a special hate crimes unit.

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/SAO/other/hatecrimes.html

Here's a list of hate crimes:

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/SAO/other/hatecrimes.html#WhatConstitutesAHateCrime

Based on what happened at Blair, nothing would fall under that list as being illegal... because of the first amendment.

This is the answer. It’s not illegal (in MoCo) to use the n word or do a Nazi salute. MCPS may have different rules, but as far as crimes go, none were committed.

Not only in MoCo. It is not illegal anywhere in the US, thanks to the first amendment.

As it should be.

Here are the parents of the who should be expelled.