Preschool vs Daycare Wars

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I only find it weird when people use the term “preschool” for a kid under 3 who is clearly going to daycare. I always get the vibe that they’re self conscious that their kid is going to daycare so they rebrand it as “school.” I say this as someone with a kid in daycare—it’s not school and it’s not supposed to be.


So what should I call where my DD goes? Her childcare center starts at 18 months and offers part time and full time options that largely follow the public school calendar. In fact you apply for admission in the spring to start when school goes back. Summer enrollment is optional. The staff call themselves teachers and there is a curriculum. I call it her preschool because she thinks she is in school like her older sibling in public school. I’ve sent my oldest to a daycare that started at infant age so I have zero problems with daycare FWIW.

It just seems like people are unnecessarily trying to gate keep what can be called school when really the kids are learning at all sorts of centers. Personally I don’t really care if someone calls their childcare a daycare or a school.


Dp. You answered your own question. Fwiw I think there is a good debate about what the terms mean and gatekeeping, but the alternative language isn't hard to come up with.


However, that language is not widely used by parents or children. Don't know of any 4 year olds that say "I don't want to go to my childcare center!"
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The data just doesn’t support group learning before age 3 or so. If your goal is to ‘school’ a two year old you would hire a nanny because they are learning from a single caregiver and not from peers. The peers are only competitors for the caregivers attention. Any center that is trying to sell you on STEM classes for 2 year olds is ripping you off. They are usually just trying to distract you from the caregiver ratio.

Look for a high caregiver ratio not a curriculum or ‘school’ before age 3/4. Often an in-home daycare is better in this regard, frankly.

After age 3/4 they do learn from peers so there is definite benefit to a school environment.

Let’s just be honest about the tough choices all parents make and not let an industry try to sell us on non-evidence based nonsense.

https://criticalscience.medium.com/on-the-science-of-daycare-4d1ab4c2efb4#:~:text=Children%20spending%20long%20hours%20in,negative%20effect%20on%20later%20behavior.


If you actually read the studies cited on this blog post you'll see "the data" is not nearly as definitive as the author makes it sound. Talk to any speech therapist that works with young toddlers and they will tell you many 1 year olds with expressive language delays magically start talking when they are in a group setting. Just because they aren't playing cooperatively yet doesn't mean they aren't learning from each other.


NP here. I’m a mom of 3 and my youngest (currently 18 months) is by far my most verbally and socially advanced toddler. I totally credit this to having older siblings + their friends around all the time. She is so aware/interested in what these kids are doing and repeats words/tries to talk to them all the time. When we go to the pool or library story time, she is the outgoing kid walking up to others trying to share toys and waving and saying “hi.” She is currently in a nanny share, but we’re looking to switch to a group setting soon because I absolutely believe she benefits from social interaction and will do great in a setting with structured activities.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:What’s the difference between a group of daycare kids who play on the playground for several hours a day being watched by people who make $15-25/hr and a group of nannies who meet at the same neighborhood park every day? The difference to the kids is Zilch!

What’s the difference between a nanny share with 3 kids that doesn’t meet at my house and an in-home daycare with 3 kids and 1 caregiver? The difference my kid is Zilch.

The only difference I can see is that to some people the middle aged white woman at the church preschool who has been teaching for 20 years is somehow superior to the 24 yr old Black woman who has a community college certificate in early education and is working at Bright Horizons until she earns enough money to get a 4 yr degree to teach elementary school. Having participated in a variety of childcare scenarios, the main difference I see in preschool teachers vs daycare worker, nanny, or au pair is not their qualifications and educational background. It’s their age and ethnicity. Preschool teachers tend to be older and whiter because that is who can afford to work part time hours. Somehow looking like the stereotypical teacher from a picture book commands more respect.

I think anyone wringing their hands about “group learning is not evidence based before 3” and “children do best one on one” and “PRE school is DIFFERENT!” are actually saying -
1. I can afford to not work / work part time / pay a nanny.
2. I place a premium on having my children cared for by white native English speakers.
3. I want my children to be socialized with other children whose parents share the same privileges and priorities.
4. The fact that children thrive in a wide variety of care scenarios is a threat to my choice for my family.
5. If another kid is securely attached, well socialized, and well prepared for school despite their parent’s inferior choice of childcare, then what was my sacrifice even for?


Oh I love this post. PP, A+.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What’s the difference between a group of daycare kids who play on the playground for several hours a day being watched by people who make $15-25/hr and a group of nannies who meet at the same neighborhood park every day? The difference to the kids is Zilch!

What’s the difference between a nanny share with 3 kids that doesn’t meet at my house and an in-home daycare with 3 kids and 1 caregiver? The difference my kid is Zilch.

The only difference I can see is that to some people the middle aged white woman at the church preschool who has been teaching for 20 years is somehow superior to the 24 yr old Black woman who has a community college certificate in early education and is working at Bright Horizons until she earns enough money to get a 4 yr degree to teach elementary school. Having participated in a variety of childcare scenarios, the main difference I see in preschool teachers vs daycare worker, nanny, or au pair is not their qualifications and educational background. It’s their age and ethnicity. Preschool teachers tend to be older and whiter because that is who can afford to work part time hours. Somehow looking like the stereotypical teacher from a picture book commands more respect.

I think anyone wringing their hands about “group learning is not evidence based before 3” and “children do best one on one” and “PRE school is DIFFERENT!” are actually saying -
1. I can afford to not work / work part time / pay a nanny.
2. I place a premium on having my children cared for by white native English speakers.
3. I want my children to be socialized with other children whose parents share the same privileges and priorities.
4. The fact that children thrive in a wide variety of care scenarios is a threat to my choice for my family.
5. If another kid is securely attached, well socialized, and well prepared for school despite their parent’s inferior choice of childcare, then what was my sacrifice even for?


Oh I love this post. PP, A+.


+1 Amen
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I only find it weird when people use the term “preschool” for a kid under 3 who is clearly going to daycare. I always get the vibe that they’re self conscious that their kid is going to daycare so they rebrand it as “school.” I say this as someone with a kid in daycare—it’s not school and it’s not supposed to be.


So what should I call where my DD goes? Her childcare center starts at 18 months and offers part time and full time options that largely follow the public school calendar. In fact you apply for admission in the spring to start when school goes back. Summer enrollment is optional. The staff call themselves teachers and there is a curriculum. I call it her preschool because she thinks she is in school like her older sibling in public school. I’ve sent my oldest to a daycare that started at infant age so I have zero problems with daycare FWIW.

It just seems like people are unnecessarily trying to gate keep what can be called school when really the kids are learning at all sorts of centers. Personally I don’t really care if someone calls their childcare a daycare or a school.


Dp. You answered your own question. Fwiw I think there is a good debate about what the terms mean and gatekeeping, but the alternative language isn't hard to come up with.


However, that language is not widely used by parents or children. Don't know of any 4 year olds that say "I don't want to go to my childcare center!"


Your four year old is probably going to a preschool, unlike that 18 month old in a different part of the center.

If you don't like the word daycare, you could say, "I gotta pick my kid up from childcare," on your way out of work. You, as an adult, can even say daycare or childcare to other adults while your child says school.

Or just call it school for everyone as it sounds like you prefer?

You do have options, though. It's not like you have to say school to other adults just because your kid likes to call it school.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I only find it weird when people use the term “preschool” for a kid under 3 who is clearly going to daycare. I always get the vibe that they’re self conscious that their kid is going to daycare so they rebrand it as “school.” I say this as someone with a kid in daycare—it’s not school and it’s not supposed to be.


So what should I call where my DD goes? Her childcare center starts at 18 months and offers part time and full time options that largely follow the public school calendar. In fact you apply for admission in the spring to start when school goes back. Summer enrollment is optional. The staff call themselves teachers and there is a curriculum. I call it her preschool because she thinks she is in school like her older sibling in public school. I’ve sent my oldest to a daycare that started at infant age so I have zero problems with daycare FWIW.

It just seems like people are unnecessarily trying to gate keep what can be called school when really the kids are learning at all sorts of centers. Personally I don’t really care if someone calls their childcare a daycare or a school.


Dp. You answered your own question. Fwiw I think there is a good debate about what the terms mean and gatekeeping, but the alternative language isn't hard to come up with.


However, that language is not widely used by parents or children. Don't know of any 4 year olds that say "I don't want to go to my childcare center!"


Your four year old is probably going to a preschool, unlike that 18 month old in a different part of the center.

If you don't like the word daycare, you could say, "I gotta pick my kid up from childcare," on your way out of work. You, as an adult, can even say daycare or childcare to other adults while your child says school.

Or just call it school for everyone as it sounds like you prefer?

You do have options, though. It's not like you have to say school to other adults just because your kid likes to call it school.


I also don’t have to call it daycare just because you don’t like my word choices.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:What’s the difference between a group of daycare kids who play on the playground for several hours a day being watched by people who make $15-25/hr and a group of nannies who meet at the same neighborhood park every day? The difference to the kids is Zilch!

What’s the difference between a nanny share with 3 kids that doesn’t meet at my house and an in-home daycare with 3 kids and 1 caregiver? The difference my kid is Zilch.

The only difference I can see is that to some people the middle aged white woman at the church preschool who has been teaching for 20 years is somehow superior to the 24 yr old Black woman who has a community college certificate in early education and is working at Bright Horizons until she earns enough money to get a 4 yr degree to teach elementary school. Having participated in a variety of childcare scenarios, the main difference I see in preschool teachers vs daycare worker, nanny, or au pair is not their qualifications and educational background. It’s their age and ethnicity. Preschool teachers tend to be older and whiter because that is who can afford to work part time hours. Somehow looking like the stereotypical teacher from a picture book commands more respect.

I think anyone wringing their hands about “group learning is not evidence based before 3” and “children do best one on one” and “PRE school is DIFFERENT!” are actually saying -
1. I can afford to not work / work part time / pay a nanny.
2. I place a premium on having my children cared for by white native English speakers.
3. I want my children to be socialized with other children whose parents share the same privileges and priorities.
4. The fact that children thrive in a wide variety of care scenarios is a threat to my choice for my family.
5. If another kid is securely attached, well socialized, and well prepared for school despite their parent’s inferior choice of childcare, then what was my sacrifice even for?


That’s great that you want to turn this into a race issue but your personal observations do not align with the evidence based science or reality. You really think supporting the $3 million dollar salary of the white male CEO of the publicly traded lllc Bright Horizons is somehow a progressive action? You’ve been conned. They literally pay less than almost any other center and are known for high turnover and worker exploitation.

And, yes, ratios and hours spent in group care matter.
Anonymous
I think the wars have to do with old and dated stereotypes of what a daycare is and what a preschool is. What’s funny is that the quality of “daycare” has improved so much in the last 10 to 15 years that the fact that this generation of parents to young kids are hung up on words is baffling. I think it’s people who need to put others down to make themselves feel better. At the end of the day It doesn’t matter if you call it a Daycare, Preschool, school, childcare center, if your child is healthy, safe, thriving and growing.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I only find it weird when people use the term “preschool” for a kid under 3 who is clearly going to daycare. I always get the vibe that they’re self conscious that their kid is going to daycare so they rebrand it as “school.” I say this as someone with a kid in daycare—it’s not school and it’s not supposed to be.


So what should I call where my DD goes? Her childcare center starts at 18 months and offers part time and full time options that largely follow the public school calendar. In fact you apply for admission in the spring to start when school goes back. Summer enrollment is optional. The staff call themselves teachers and there is a curriculum. I call it her preschool because she thinks she is in school like her older sibling in public school. I’ve sent my oldest to a daycare that started at infant age so I have zero problems with daycare FWIW.

It just seems like people are unnecessarily trying to gate keep what can be called school when really the kids are learning at all sorts of centers. Personally I don’t really care if someone calls their childcare a daycare or a school.


Dp. You answered your own question. Fwiw I think there is a good debate about what the terms mean and gatekeeping, but the alternative language isn't hard to come up with.


However, that language is not widely used by parents or children. Don't know of any 4 year olds that say "I don't want to go to my childcare center!"


Your four year old is probably going to a preschool, unlike that 18 month old in a different part of the center.

If you don't like the word daycare, you could say, "I gotta pick my kid up from childcare," on your way out of work. You, as an adult, can even say daycare or childcare to other adults while your child says school.

Or just call it school for everyone as it sounds like you prefer?

You do have options, though. It's not like you have to say school to other adults just because your kid likes to call it school.


I also don’t have to call it daycare just because you don’t like my word choices.


There are a lot of different posters on this thread who dislike your word choice, but I literally wrote, "or just call it school."
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The data just doesn’t support group learning before age 3 or so. If your goal is to ‘school’ a two year old you would hire a nanny because they are learning from a single caregiver and not from peers. The peers are only competitors for the caregivers attention. Any center that is trying to sell you on STEM classes for 2 year olds is ripping you off. They are usually just trying to distract you from the caregiver ratio.

Look for a high caregiver ratio not a curriculum or ‘school’ before age 3/4. Often an in-home daycare is better in this regard, frankly.

After age 3/4 they do learn from peers so there is definite benefit to a school environment.

Let’s just be honest about the tough choices all parents make and not let an industry try to sell us on non-evidence based nonsense.

https://criticalscience.medium.com/on-the-science-of-daycare-4d1ab4c2efb4#:~:text=Children%20spending%20long%20hours%20in,negative%20effect%20on%20later%20behavior.


If you actually read the studies cited on this blog post you'll see "the data" is not nearly as definitive as the author makes it sound. Talk to any speech therapist that works with young toddlers and they will tell you many 1 year olds with expressive language delays magically start talking when they are in a group setting. Just because they aren't playing cooperatively yet doesn't mean they aren't learning from each other.


NP here. I’m a mom of 3 and my youngest (currently 18 months) is by far my most verbally and socially advanced toddler. I totally credit this to having older siblings + their friends around all the time. She is so aware/interested in what these kids are doing and repeats words/tries to talk to them all the time. When we go to the pool or library story time, she is the outgoing kid walking up to others trying to share toys and waving and saying “hi.” She is currently in a nanny share, but we’re looking to switch to a group setting soon because I absolutely believe she benefits from social interaction and will do great in a setting with structured activities.


I agree - although my experience is different - my daughter has been at a childcare center since 4.5 months (now 2) - but she is so social. It's clear she has meaningful relationships with the other children. After she left the infant room (~age 1) when I came breastfeed her during lunch she would circle back and interact with one of the older babies left in the infant room through the door gate. We once ran into a toddler classmate in the park and the glee they had seeing each other and then playing together (they slid down the double slide together repeatedly) was fun to watch. When her friend a month younger than her moved up to the toddler room - she "instructed" him on the ropes of circle time according to her teachers.

Now she is a very social kid so I actually think one needs to take the temperament of the child into account - a less social baby/toddler might not thrive so much in a group setting.

I have no issues calling what she goes to "school" She's learned the ABC song there. The teachers design carefully thought out activities they call "provocations" so the kids explore all sorts of materials, art projects etc. I do also call it daycare even though I know it's not the preferred term just because it's easier sometimes. :)
Anonymous
In summary, "daycare" is incorrect, "school" is incorrect, and "childcare center" and "family childcare home" are mouthfuls. Given this, I have to wonder why anyone feels so strongly about what parents call it informally.
Anonymous
The law defines these programs very specifically.

For example, in Alexandria, these 2 very different programs are both "child day centers:"

Bright Horizons Old Town https://dss.virginia.gov/facility/search/cc2.cgi?rm=Details;ID=41241;search_keywords_name=alexandria;search_require_client_code-2101=1

Westminster Weekday Preschool https://dss.virginia.gov/facility/search/cc2.cgi?rm=Details;ID=16029;search_exact_fips=510;search_keywords_name=preschool;search_require_client_code-2101=1

This one is a "religious exempt child day center:"

St. Paul's Episcopal Preschool https://dss.virginia.gov/facility/search/cc2.cgi?rm=Details;ID=42004;search_require_client_code-2105=1;search_exact_fips=510

Although they all have serve preschool-aged children, none of them is a "preschool" as defined by law.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:The law defines these programs very specifically.

For example, in Alexandria, these 2 very different programs are both "child day centers:"

Bright Horizons Old Town https://dss.virginia.gov/facility/search/cc2.cgi?rm=Details;ID=41241;search_keywords_name=alexandria;search_require_client_code-2101=1

Westminster Weekday Preschool https://dss.virginia.gov/facility/search/cc2.cgi?rm=Details;ID=16029;search_exact_fips=510;search_keywords_name=preschool;search_require_client_code-2101=1

This one is a "religious exempt child day center:"

St. Paul's Episcopal Preschool https://dss.virginia.gov/facility/search/cc2.cgi?rm=Details;ID=42004;search_require_client_code-2105=1;search_exact_fips=510

Although they all have serve preschool-aged children, none of them is a "preschool" as defined by law.



Wow what a revelation, so you're saying parents should use the legally defined terms in their state? That sounds super practical and won't lead to confusion at all.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What’s the difference between a group of daycare kids who play on the playground for several hours a day being watched by people who make $15-25/hr and a group of nannies who meet at the same neighborhood park every day? The difference to the kids is Zilch!

What’s the difference between a nanny share with 3 kids that doesn’t meet at my house and an in-home daycare with 3 kids and 1 caregiver? The difference my kid is Zilch.

The only difference I can see is that to some people the middle aged white woman at the church preschool who has been teaching for 20 years is somehow superior to the 24 yr old Black woman who has a community college certificate in early education and is working at Bright Horizons until she earns enough money to get a 4 yr degree to teach elementary school. Having participated in a variety of childcare scenarios, the main difference I see in preschool teachers vs daycare worker, nanny, or au pair is not their qualifications and educational background. It’s their age and ethnicity. Preschool teachers tend to be older and whiter because that is who can afford to work part time hours. Somehow looking like the stereotypical teacher from a picture book commands more respect.

I think anyone wringing their hands about “group learning is not evidence based before 3” and “children do best one on one” and “PRE school is DIFFERENT!” are actually saying -
1. I can afford to not work / work part time / pay a nanny.
2. I place a premium on having my children cared for by white native English speakers.
3. I want my children to be socialized with other children whose parents share the same privileges and priorities.
4. The fact that children thrive in a wide variety of care scenarios is a threat to my choice for my family.
5. If another kid is securely attached, well socialized, and well prepared for school despite their parent’s inferior choice of childcare, then what was my sacrifice even for?


Oh I love this post. PP, A+.


+1 Amen


Absolutely. So much this re who looks like a storybook "preschool teacher."
Anonymous
NP. My kids are older teens now and I will say this: stay far, far away from people who feel strongly about this topic. They invariably turn out to be the parents you don’t want your kids around. It’s a handy guide, sort of like how you also want to avoid people with really strong feelings on redshirting.
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