Why is there so much income inequality in moco

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:MoCo is a second-tier county. Its new residents are mostly people who buy single family houses because they can’t afford to buy in Northwest or Fairfax and people who rent because they can’t afford a rental in Northwest or Fairfax. There are some small enclaves of wealth that offer what NW and Fairfax don’t but other than that MoCo is a cheaper choice, so you end up with extreme wealth on one end and lower incomes on the other.

The delusion runs deep. Sure, people are choosing the likes of Clifton, Centreville, Chantilly, Burke, and Lorton because they're cheaper than MoCo. Quite the sense of humor you have.

Median house prices:
MoCo: $645k
Fairfax: $725k
Clifton: $556k
Centerville: $545k
Chantilly: $745k
Burke: $850k
Lorton: $727k

Fairfax beats MoCo by $80k. Three of the five places you named beat MoCo. Even Lorton beats MoCo. There are cheaper places in Fairfax, but there are cheaper places in MoCo too (like Damascus, $552k).

I wonder what Fairfax has that MoCo doesn’t.

An even more out-of-balance housing market, apparently.

Fairfax has higher housing prices for comparable units even though it builds more units than Montgomery.

In other words, Fairfax has an even more out-of-balance housing market.

That’s ridiculous. If you build more housing, prices go down[/b]. Fairfax has built more housing than MoCo. Guess you’ve never heard of supply and demand or you’re just a NIMBY troll.

If you build more housing, prices go down relative to if you don't build more housing. However, housing in Fairfax is apparently even more expensive than in Montgomery. Why? Because the housing market is even more out of balance with respect to supply and demand.

That’s quite a word salad to say prices don’t actually go down.

The equilibrium price is a function of both supply and demand. When supply goes up, but demand goes up more, the equilibrium price goes up. That's not word salad, it's Econ 101.

Doesn’t change the fact that prices don’t actually go down. Why is there so much more demand in Fairfax?

We don't actually know that there is "so much more demand" in Fairfax, do we?

For example, in Fairfax, in 2021, there were 84,274 units in rental housing complexes, with a vacancy rate of 7.1%, and an average monthly rent of $1,913. The 2021 population was 1,139,720 (down 0.9% from 1,150,309 in 2020), the median household income was $134,115, and the median family income was $159,645. In Montgomery, in 2021, there were 85,410 units in rental housing complexes, with a vacancy rate of 6%, and an average monthly rent of $1,759. The 2021 population was 1,054,829 (down 0.7% from 1,062,061 in 2020), the median household income was $112,854, and the median family income was $139,174.

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/demographics/sites/demographics/files/assets/demographicreports/fullrpt.pdf
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/OLO/Resources/Files/2023_reports/OLOReport2023-5.pdf

You forgot about owner occupied. Fairfax has more units overall. The biggest difference between Montgomery and Fairfax is household income. Housing in Fairfax is more expensive because people can afford to pay more.

And if there's one thing people love doing, it's paying more when they could pay less! The reality is that both Montgomery and Fairfax are not building enough housing to meet demand, and that's why housing in both Montgomery and Fairfax is so expensive.

Fairfax County, Virginia (US Census):
Population, July 1, 2022: 1,138,331
Housing units, July 1, 2022: 429,828
Owner-occupied housing unit rate, 2017-2021: 68.5%
Median value of owner-occupied housing units, 2017-2021 $594,500
Median selected monthly owner costs -with a mortgage, 2017-2021 $2,866
Median selected monthly owner costs -without a mortgage, 2017-2021 $924
Median gross rent, 2017-2021 $1,977
Building permits, 2022: 1,987

Montgomery County, Maryland (US Census):
Population, July 1, 2022: 1,052,521
Housing units, July 1, 2022: 406,801
Owner-occupied housing unit rate, 2017-2021: 65.4%
Median value of owner-occupied housing units, 2017-2021: $508,600
Median selected monthly owner costs -with a mortgage, 2017-2021 $2,679
Median selected monthly owner costs -without a mortgage, 2017-2021 $860
Median gross rent, 2017-2021 $1,844
Building permits, 2022: 724

And if there’s one thing landlords love doing, it’s charging less than when they could charge more! Your numbers show that Fairfax has higher housing costs despite having more units and more construction.

The reality is developers won’t charge less unless we make them build more or put in rent controls.

You can’t force a developer to build more.

Sure you can. Vacancy taxes and land value taxes are two ways to force developers to put more units on the market. More aggressively, eminent domain so the county can seize land and build housing itself.

Government caused MoCo’s issues, and you expect government to step in and fix them? Delusional.

Why do you hate the free market?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:MoCo is a second-tier county. Its new residents are mostly people who buy single family houses because they can’t afford to buy in Northwest or Fairfax and people who rent because they can’t afford a rental in Northwest or Fairfax. There are some small enclaves of wealth that offer what NW and Fairfax don’t but other than that MoCo is a cheaper choice, so you end up with extreme wealth on one end and lower incomes on the other.

The delusion runs deep. Sure, people are choosing the likes of Clifton, Centreville, Chantilly, Burke, and Lorton because they're cheaper than MoCo. Quite the sense of humor you have.

Median house prices:
MoCo: $645k
Fairfax: $725k
Clifton: $556k
Centerville: $545k
Chantilly: $745k
Burke: $850k
Lorton: $727k

Fairfax beats MoCo by $80k. Three of the five places you named beat MoCo. Even Lorton beats MoCo. There are cheaper places in Fairfax, but there are cheaper places in MoCo too (like Damascus, $552k).

I wonder what Fairfax has that MoCo doesn’t.

An even more out-of-balance housing market, apparently.

Fairfax has higher housing prices for comparable units even though it builds more units than Montgomery.

In other words, Fairfax has an even more out-of-balance housing market.

That’s ridiculous. If you build more housing, prices go down[/b]. Fairfax has built more housing than MoCo. Guess you’ve never heard of supply and demand or you’re just a NIMBY troll.

If you build more housing, prices go down relative to if you don't build more housing. However, housing in Fairfax is apparently even more expensive than in Montgomery. Why? Because the housing market is even more out of balance with respect to supply and demand.

That’s quite a word salad to say prices don’t actually go down.

The equilibrium price is a function of both supply and demand. When supply goes up, but demand goes up more, the equilibrium price goes up. That's not word salad, it's Econ 101.

Doesn’t change the fact that prices don’t actually go down. Why is there so much more demand in Fairfax?

We don't actually know that there is "so much more demand" in Fairfax, do we?

For example, in Fairfax, in 2021, there were 84,274 units in rental housing complexes, with a vacancy rate of 7.1%, and an average monthly rent of $1,913. The 2021 population was 1,139,720 (down 0.9% from 1,150,309 in 2020), the median household income was $134,115, and the median family income was $159,645. In Montgomery, in 2021, there were 85,410 units in rental housing complexes, with a vacancy rate of 6%, and an average monthly rent of $1,759. The 2021 population was 1,054,829 (down 0.7% from 1,062,061 in 2020), the median household income was $112,854, and the median family income was $139,174.

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/demographics/sites/demographics/files/assets/demographicreports/fullrpt.pdf
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/OLO/Resources/Files/2023_reports/OLOReport2023-5.pdf

You forgot about owner occupied. Fairfax has more units overall. The biggest difference between Montgomery and Fairfax is household income. Housing in Fairfax is more expensive because people can afford to pay more.

And if there's one thing people love doing, it's paying more when they could pay less! The reality is that both Montgomery and Fairfax are not building enough housing to meet demand, and that's why housing in both Montgomery and Fairfax is so expensive.

Fairfax County, Virginia (US Census):
Population, July 1, 2022: 1,138,331
Housing units, July 1, 2022: 429,828
Owner-occupied housing unit rate, 2017-2021: 68.5%
Median value of owner-occupied housing units, 2017-2021 $594,500
Median selected monthly owner costs -with a mortgage, 2017-2021 $2,866
Median selected monthly owner costs -without a mortgage, 2017-2021 $924
Median gross rent, 2017-2021 $1,977
Building permits, 2022: 1,987

Montgomery County, Maryland (US Census):
Population, July 1, 2022: 1,052,521
Housing units, July 1, 2022: 406,801
Owner-occupied housing unit rate, 2017-2021: 65.4%
Median value of owner-occupied housing units, 2017-2021: $508,600
Median selected monthly owner costs -with a mortgage, 2017-2021 $2,679
Median selected monthly owner costs -without a mortgage, 2017-2021 $860
Median gross rent, 2017-2021 $1,844
Building permits, 2022: 724

And if there’s one thing landlords love doing, it’s charging less than when they could charge more! Your numbers show that Fairfax has higher housing costs despite having more units and more construction.

The reality is developers won’t charge less unless we make them build more or put in rent controls.

You can’t force a developer to build more.

Sure you can. Vacancy taxes and land value taxes are two ways to force developers to put more units on the market. More aggressively, eminent domain so the county can seize land and build housing itself.

Ahhhh, nothing better to beautify up a place than communist style bloc housing.

Another approach is simply to cease supporting overly generous social services, which serve only to attract more needy individuals and families.

Yes, Jesus famously blesses those who give hungry people nothing to eat, thirsty people nothing to drink, strangers no shelter, people without clothes no clothes, and sick and imprisoned people no care!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:MoCo is a second-tier county. Its new residents are mostly people who buy single family houses because they can’t afford to buy in Northwest or Fairfax and people who rent because they can’t afford a rental in Northwest or Fairfax. There are some small enclaves of wealth that offer what NW and Fairfax don’t but other than that MoCo is a cheaper choice, so you end up with extreme wealth on one end and lower incomes on the other.

The delusion runs deep. Sure, people are choosing the likes of Clifton, Centreville, Chantilly, Burke, and Lorton because they're cheaper than MoCo. Quite the sense of humor you have.

Median house prices:
MoCo: $645k
Fairfax: $725k
Clifton: $556k
Centerville: $545k
Chantilly: $745k
Burke: $850k
Lorton: $727k

Fairfax beats MoCo by $80k. Three of the five places you named beat MoCo. Even Lorton beats MoCo. There are cheaper places in Fairfax, but there are cheaper places in MoCo too (like Damascus, $552k).

I wonder what Fairfax has that MoCo doesn’t.

An even more out-of-balance housing market, apparently.

Fairfax has higher housing prices for comparable units even though it builds more units than Montgomery.

In other words, Fairfax has an even more out-of-balance housing market.

That’s ridiculous. If you build more housing, prices go down[/b]. Fairfax has built more housing than MoCo. Guess you’ve never heard of supply and demand or you’re just a NIMBY troll.

If you build more housing, prices go down relative to if you don't build more housing. However, housing in Fairfax is apparently even more expensive than in Montgomery. Why? Because the housing market is even more out of balance with respect to supply and demand.

That’s quite a word salad to say prices don’t actually go down.

The equilibrium price is a function of both supply and demand. When supply goes up, but demand goes up more, the equilibrium price goes up. That's not word salad, it's Econ 101.

Doesn’t change the fact that prices don’t actually go down. Why is there so much more demand in Fairfax?

We don't actually know that there is "so much more demand" in Fairfax, do we?

For example, in Fairfax, in 2021, there were 84,274 units in rental housing complexes, with a vacancy rate of 7.1%, and an average monthly rent of $1,913. The 2021 population was 1,139,720 (down 0.9% from 1,150,309 in 2020), the median household income was $134,115, and the median family income was $159,645. In Montgomery, in 2021, there were 85,410 units in rental housing complexes, with a vacancy rate of 6%, and an average monthly rent of $1,759. The 2021 population was 1,054,829 (down 0.7% from 1,062,061 in 2020), the median household income was $112,854, and the median family income was $139,174.

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/demographics/sites/demographics/files/assets/demographicreports/fullrpt.pdf
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/OLO/Resources/Files/2023_reports/OLOReport2023-5.pdf

You forgot about owner occupied. Fairfax has more units overall. The biggest difference between Montgomery and Fairfax is household income. Housing in Fairfax is more expensive because people can afford to pay more.

And if there's one thing people love doing, it's paying more when they could pay less! The reality is that both Montgomery and Fairfax are not building enough housing to meet demand, and that's why housing in both Montgomery and Fairfax is so expensive.

Fairfax County, Virginia (US Census):
Population, July 1, 2022: 1,138,331
Housing units, July 1, 2022: 429,828
Owner-occupied housing unit rate, 2017-2021: 68.5%
Median value of owner-occupied housing units, 2017-2021 $594,500
Median selected monthly owner costs -with a mortgage, 2017-2021 $2,866
Median selected monthly owner costs -without a mortgage, 2017-2021 $924
Median gross rent, 2017-2021 $1,977
Building permits, 2022: 1,987

Montgomery County, Maryland (US Census):
Population, July 1, 2022: 1,052,521
Housing units, July 1, 2022: 406,801
Owner-occupied housing unit rate, 2017-2021: 65.4%
Median value of owner-occupied housing units, 2017-2021: $508,600
Median selected monthly owner costs -with a mortgage, 2017-2021 $2,679
Median selected monthly owner costs -without a mortgage, 2017-2021 $860
Median gross rent, 2017-2021 $1,844
Building permits, 2022: 724

And if there’s one thing landlords love doing, it’s charging less than when they could charge more! Your numbers show that Fairfax has higher housing costs despite having more units and more construction.

The reality is developers won’t charge less unless we make them build more or put in rent controls.

You can’t force a developer to build more.

Sure you can. Vacancy taxes and land value taxes are two ways to force developers to put more units on the market. More aggressively, eminent domain so the county can seize land and build housing itself.

Ahhhh, nothing better to beautify up a place than communist style bloc housing.

Another approach is simply to cease supporting overly generous social services, which serve only to attract more needy individuals and families.

Because members of our existing community need or will need help sometime in the future? Maybe even yourself?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:MoCo is a second-tier county. Its new residents are mostly people who buy single family houses because they can’t afford to buy in Northwest or Fairfax and people who rent because they can’t afford a rental in Northwest or Fairfax. There are some small enclaves of wealth that offer what NW and Fairfax don’t but other than that MoCo is a cheaper choice, so you end up with extreme wealth on one end and lower incomes on the other.

The delusion runs deep. Sure, people are choosing the likes of Clifton, Centreville, Chantilly, Burke, and Lorton because they're cheaper than MoCo. Quite the sense of humor you have.

Median house prices:
MoCo: $645k
Fairfax: $725k
Clifton: $556k
Centerville: $545k
Chantilly: $745k
Burke: $850k
Lorton: $727k

Fairfax beats MoCo by $80k. Three of the five places you named beat MoCo. Even Lorton beats MoCo. There are cheaper places in Fairfax, but there are cheaper places in MoCo too (like Damascus, $552k).

I wonder what Fairfax has that MoCo doesn’t.

An even more out-of-balance housing market, apparently.

Fairfax has higher housing prices for comparable units even though it builds more units than Montgomery.

In other words, Fairfax has an even more out-of-balance housing market.

That’s ridiculous. If you build more housing, prices go down[/b]. Fairfax has built more housing than MoCo. Guess you’ve never heard of supply and demand or you’re just a NIMBY troll.

If you build more housing, prices go down relative to if you don't build more housing. However, housing in Fairfax is apparently even more expensive than in Montgomery. Why? Because the housing market is even more out of balance with respect to supply and demand.

That’s quite a word salad to say prices don’t actually go down.

The equilibrium price is a function of both supply and demand. When supply goes up, but demand goes up more, the equilibrium price goes up. That's not word salad, it's Econ 101.

Doesn’t change the fact that prices don’t actually go down. Why is there so much more demand in Fairfax?

We don't actually know that there is "so much more demand" in Fairfax, do we?

For example, in Fairfax, in 2021, there were 84,274 units in rental housing complexes, with a vacancy rate of 7.1%, and an average monthly rent of $1,913. The 2021 population was 1,139,720 (down 0.9% from 1,150,309 in 2020), the median household income was $134,115, and the median family income was $159,645. In Montgomery, in 2021, there were 85,410 units in rental housing complexes, with a vacancy rate of 6%, and an average monthly rent of $1,759. The 2021 population was 1,054,829 (down 0.7% from 1,062,061 in 2020), the median household income was $112,854, and the median family income was $139,174.

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/demographics/sites/demographics/files/assets/demographicreports/fullrpt.pdf
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/OLO/Resources/Files/2023_reports/OLOReport2023-5.pdf

You forgot about owner occupied. Fairfax has more units overall. The biggest difference between Montgomery and Fairfax is household income. Housing in Fairfax is more expensive because people can afford to pay more.

And if there's one thing people love doing, it's paying more when they could pay less! The reality is that both Montgomery and Fairfax are not building enough housing to meet demand, and that's why housing in both Montgomery and Fairfax is so expensive.

Fairfax County, Virginia (US Census):
Population, July 1, 2022: 1,138,331
Housing units, July 1, 2022: 429,828
Owner-occupied housing unit rate, 2017-2021: 68.5%
Median value of owner-occupied housing units, 2017-2021 $594,500
Median selected monthly owner costs -with a mortgage, 2017-2021 $2,866
Median selected monthly owner costs -without a mortgage, 2017-2021 $924
Median gross rent, 2017-2021 $1,977
Building permits, 2022: 1,987

Montgomery County, Maryland (US Census):
Population, July 1, 2022: 1,052,521
Housing units, July 1, 2022: 406,801
Owner-occupied housing unit rate, 2017-2021: 65.4%
Median value of owner-occupied housing units, 2017-2021: $508,600
Median selected monthly owner costs -with a mortgage, 2017-2021 $2,679
Median selected monthly owner costs -without a mortgage, 2017-2021 $860
Median gross rent, 2017-2021 $1,844
Building permits, 2022: 724

And if there’s one thing landlords love doing, it’s charging less than when they could charge more! Your numbers show that Fairfax has higher housing costs despite having more units and more construction.

The reality is developers won’t charge less unless we make them build more or put in rent controls.

You can’t force a developer to build more.

Sure you can. Vacancy taxes and land value taxes are two ways to force developers to put more units on the market. More aggressively, eminent domain so the county can seize land and build housing itself.

Government caused MoCo’s issues, and you expect government to step in and fix them? Delusional.

Developers are the only ones who benefit from a housing crisis and you expect them to step in and fix it? Delusional.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MoCo is a second-tier county. Its new residents are mostly people who buy single family houses because they can’t afford to buy in Northwest or Fairfax and people who rent because they can’t afford a rental in Northwest or Fairfax. There are some small enclaves of wealth that offer what NW and Fairfax don’t but other than that MoCo is a cheaper choice, so you end up with extreme wealth on one end and lower incomes on the other.

The delusion runs deep. Sure, people are choosing the likes of Clifton, Centreville, Chantilly, Burke, and Lorton because they're cheaper than MoCo. Quite the sense of humor you have.

Median house prices:
MoCo: $645k
Fairfax: $725k
Clifton: $556k
Centerville: $545k
Chantilly: $745k
Burke: $850k
Lorton: $727k

Fairfax beats MoCo by $80k. Three of the five places you named beat MoCo. Even Lorton beats MoCo. There are cheaper places in Fairfax, but there are cheaper places in MoCo too (like Damascus, $552k).

I wonder what Fairfax has that MoCo doesn’t.

An even more out-of-balance housing market, apparently.

Fairfax has higher housing prices for comparable units even though it builds more units than Montgomery.

In other words, Fairfax has an even more out-of-balance housing market.

That’s ridiculous. If you build more housing, prices go down[/b]. Fairfax has built more housing than MoCo. Guess you’ve never heard of supply and demand or you’re just a NIMBY troll.

If you build more housing, prices go down relative to if you don't build more housing. However, housing in Fairfax is apparently even more expensive than in Montgomery. Why? Because the housing market is even more out of balance with respect to supply and demand.

That’s quite a word salad to say prices don’t actually go down.

The equilibrium price is a function of both supply and demand. When supply goes up, but demand goes up more, the equilibrium price goes up. That's not word salad, it's Econ 101.

Doesn’t change the fact that prices don’t actually go down. Why is there so much more demand in Fairfax?

We don't actually know that there is "so much more demand" in Fairfax, do we?

For example, in Fairfax, in 2021, there were 84,274 units in rental housing complexes, with a vacancy rate of 7.1%, and an average monthly rent of $1,913. The 2021 population was 1,139,720 (down 0.9% from 1,150,309 in 2020), the median household income was $134,115, and the median family income was $159,645. In Montgomery, in 2021, there were 85,410 units in rental housing complexes, with a vacancy rate of 6%, and an average monthly rent of $1,759. The 2021 population was 1,054,829 (down 0.7% from 1,062,061 in 2020), the median household income was $112,854, and the median family income was $139,174.

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/demographics/sites/demographics/files/assets/demographicreports/fullrpt.pdf
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/OLO/Resources/Files/2023_reports/OLOReport2023-5.pdf

You forgot about owner occupied. Fairfax has more units overall. The biggest difference between Montgomery and Fairfax is household income. Housing in Fairfax is more expensive because people can afford to pay more.

And if there's one thing people love doing, it's paying more when they could pay less! The reality is that both Montgomery and Fairfax are not building enough housing to meet demand, and that's why housing in both Montgomery and Fairfax is so expensive.

Fairfax County, Virginia (US Census):
Population, July 1, 2022: 1,138,331
Housing units, July 1, 2022: 429,828
Owner-occupied housing unit rate, 2017-2021: 68.5%
Median value of owner-occupied housing units, 2017-2021 $594,500
Median selected monthly owner costs -with a mortgage, 2017-2021 $2,866
Median selected monthly owner costs -without a mortgage, 2017-2021 $924
Median gross rent, 2017-2021 $1,977
Building permits, 2022: 1,987

Montgomery County, Maryland (US Census):
Population, July 1, 2022: 1,052,521
Housing units, July 1, 2022: 406,801
Owner-occupied housing unit rate, 2017-2021: 65.4%
Median value of owner-occupied housing units, 2017-2021: $508,600
Median selected monthly owner costs -with a mortgage, 2017-2021 $2,679
Median selected monthly owner costs -without a mortgage, 2017-2021 $860
Median gross rent, 2017-2021 $1,844
Building permits, 2022: 724

And if there’s one thing landlords love doing, it’s charging less than when they could charge more! Your numbers show that Fairfax has higher housing costs despite having more units and more construction.

The reality is developers won’t charge less unless we make them build more or put in rent controls.

You can’t force a developer to build more.

Sure you can. Vacancy taxes and land value taxes are two ways to force developers to put more units on the market. More aggressively, eminent domain so the county can seize land and build housing itself.

Government caused MoCo’s issues, and you expect government to step in and fix them? Delusional.

Developers are the only ones who benefit from a housing crisis and you expect them to step in and fix it? Delusional.

Longtime homeowners (I am one) also benefit. Unless you want your adult children and/or your parents to be able to afford to live nearby... I have heard a lot of longtime homeowners, in real life, deny that there even is a housing crisis.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:How do we tackle this inequality?

Serious question... why is "inequality" a problem? The pie continues to grow faster in the U.S. but the lifestyle of the "poor" in the US is better than the middle class in most countries (and yes, that includes Europe). Simply looking at differences in wealth doesn't really say anything about a society.

I don’t necessarily like how PP phrased it but I agree. The goal should be equal opportunity and supporting the creation and maintenance of a large middle class. Not that everyone should have exactly the same house, same salary, etc.

Nobody is asking "Why doesn't everyone in Montgomery County have exactly the same house and salary?" If you want to argue with Nobody, go ahead.

County leadership is saying that. Since they passed the racial equity law, we strive to ensure race does not predict outcome and as long as there are disparities in any measure, we are failing.

Every word in your post is factually incorrect, including "and" and "the".

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/ore/

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do we tackle this inequality?

Serious question... why is "inequality" a problem? The pie continues to grow faster in the U.S. but the lifestyle of the "poor" in the US is better than the middle class in most countries (and yes, that includes Europe). Simply looking at differences in wealth doesn't really say anything about a society.

I don’t necessarily like how PP phrased it but I agree. The goal should be equal opportunity and supporting the creation and maintenance of a large middle class. Not that everyone should have exactly the same house, same salary, etc.

Nobody is asking "Why doesn't everyone in Montgomery County have exactly the same house and salary?" If you want to argue with Nobody, go ahead.

County leadership is saying that. Since they passed the racial equity law, we strive to ensure race does not predict outcome and as long as there are disparities in any measure, we are failing.

Every word in your post is factually incorrect, including "and" and "the".

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/ore/

https://montgomerycountymd.gov/ore/Resources/Files/OLOReport2018_8.pdf

"Racial equity is achieved when race no longer predicts life outcomes."

"The County Council tasked the Office of Legislative Oversight with describing lessons learned from other
jurisdictions that have made racial equity an explicit goal of local government. These local governments
have adopted systems designed to eliminate racial disparities in both opportunities and outcomes."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do we tackle this inequality?

Serious question... why is "inequality" a problem? The pie continues to grow faster in the U.S. but the lifestyle of the "poor" in the US is better than the middle class in most countries (and yes, that includes Europe). Simply looking at differences in wealth doesn't really say anything about a society.

I don’t necessarily like how PP phrased it but I agree. The goal should be equal opportunity and supporting the creation and maintenance of a large middle class. Not that everyone should have exactly the same house, same salary, etc.

Nobody is asking "Why doesn't everyone in Montgomery County have exactly the same house and salary?" If you want to argue with Nobody, go ahead.

County leadership is saying that. Since they passed the racial equity law, we strive to ensure race does not predict outcome and as long as there are disparities in any measure, we are failing.

Every word in your post is factually incorrect, including "and" and "the".

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/ore/

https://montgomerycountymd.gov/ore/Resources/Files/OLOReport2018_8.pdf

"Racial equity is achieved when race no longer predicts life outcomes."

"The County Council tasked the Office of Legislative Oversight with describing lessons learned from other
jurisdictions that have made racial equity an explicit goal of local government. These local governments
have adopted systems designed to eliminate racial disparities in both opportunities and outcomes."

The way these types initiatives work out is that we will be all equal when we are all equally mediocre to poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because MoCo goes out of its way to import poverty.

You can't come to this country with almost no education, no ability to speak English and almost no useful other skills and then cry about income inequality because all you can get are terrible jobs paying you $7/hr under the table to clean dishes and bathrooms at restaurants, or to work as a day laborer whongets picked up fke random jobs at the parking lot of Home Depot.


It really boggles my mind people push to import poverty with no limits, then complain about income inequality because huge sections of the county are here illegal from impoverished nations and they compare their wealth to our established citizens whom have educations, skills, and cam speak English. Of course poor people immigrated here illegally will have less wealth than our citizens. You can import poverty and then complain about inequality.

/end thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because MoCo goes out of its way to import poverty.

You can't come to this country with almost no education, no ability to speak English and almost no useful other skills and then cry about income inequality because all you can get are terrible jobs paying you $7/hr under the table to clean dishes and bathrooms at restaurants, or to work as a day laborer whongets picked up fke random jobs at the parking lot of Home Depot.


It really boggles my mind people push to import poverty with no limits, then complain about income inequality because huge sections of the county are here illegal from impoverished nations and they compare their wealth to our established citizens whom have educations, skills, and cam speak English. Of course poor people immigrated here illegally will have less wealth than our citizens. You can import poverty and then complain about inequality.

You're babbling, dear.

Prattling on. Like a silly woman who overheard bits and pieces of some things men were saying and thinks she understands.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:More than 30% of MoCo population are foreign-born.
More than 50% MCPS K-2 students are FARM.
Imported poverty is real in MoCo.

Over half of MCPS K-2 students are Free And Reduced Meals? That doesn't make sense.

It makes perfect sense. I haven't checked these numbers for MOCO.

But in Fairfax, there is a bulge of poorer students in the system. FARMS rate is 34% for all students there. My elementary has gone from 18% to 22% last couple years.

Public schools are not going to be what they used to be, at least in the DC area with its county-based systems.

It makes no sense. Students are not meals. Students are people. In addition, most of the K-2 students from low-income families were born in the US, not "imported".

Which is even sadder if they are born here

[Anonymous]

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Same with the Arlington people, but we don’t have the gang problem to the extent that MD does.

+1

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Anonymous wrote:MoCo is a second-tier county. Its new residents are mostly people who buy single family houses because they can’t afford to buy in Northwest or Fairfax and people who rent because they can’t afford a rental in Northwest or Fairfax. There are some small enclaves of wealth that offer what NW and Fairfax don’t but other than that MoCo is a cheaper choice, so you end up with extreme wealth on one end and lower incomes on the other.

The delusion runs deep. Sure, people are choosing the likes of Clifton, Centreville, Chantilly, Burke, and Lorton because they're cheaper than MoCo. Quite the sense of humor you have.

Median house prices:
MoCo: $645k
Fairfax: $725k
Clifton: $556k
Centerville: $545k
Chantilly: $745k
Burke: $850k
Lorton: $727k

Fairfax beats MoCo by $80k. Three of the five places you named beat MoCo. Even Lorton beats MoCo. There are cheaper places in Fairfax, but there are cheaper places in MoCo too (like Damascus, $552k).

I wonder what Fairfax has that MoCo doesn’t.

An even more out-of-balance housing market, apparently.

Fairfax has higher housing prices for comparable units even though it builds more units than Montgomery.

In other words, Fairfax has an even more out-of-balance housing market.

That’s ridiculous. If you build more housing, prices go down[/b]. Fairfax has built more housing than MoCo. Guess you’ve never heard of supply and demand or you’re just a NIMBY troll.

If you build more housing, prices go down relative to if you don't build more housing. However, housing in Fairfax is apparently even more expensive than in Montgomery. Why? Because the housing market is even more out of balance with respect to supply and demand.

That’s quite a word salad to say prices don’t actually go down.

The equilibrium price is a function of both supply and demand. When supply goes up, but demand goes up more, the equilibrium price goes up. That's not word salad, it's Econ 101.

Doesn’t change the fact that prices don’t actually go down. Why is there so much more demand in Fairfax?

We don't actually know that there is "so much more demand" in Fairfax, do we?

For example, in Fairfax, in 2021, there were 84,274 units in rental housing complexes, with a vacancy rate of 7.1%, and an average monthly rent of $1,913. The 2021 population was 1,139,720 (down 0.9% from 1,150,309 in 2020), the median household income was $134,115, and the median family income was $159,645. In Montgomery, in 2021, there were 85,410 units in rental housing complexes, with a vacancy rate of 6%, and an average monthly rent of $1,759. The 2021 population was 1,054,829 (down 0.7% from 1,062,061 in 2020), the median household income was $112,854, and the median family income was $139,174.

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/demographics/sites/demographics/files/assets/demographicreports/fullrpt.pdf
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/OLO/Resources/Files/2023_reports/OLOReport2023-5.pdf

You forgot about owner occupied. Fairfax has more units overall. The biggest difference between Montgomery and Fairfax is household income. Housing in Fairfax is more expensive because people can afford to pay more.

And if there's one thing people love doing, it's paying more when they could pay less! The reality is that both Montgomery and Fairfax are not building enough housing to meet demand, and that's why housing in both Montgomery and Fairfax is so expensive.

Fairfax County, Virginia (US Census):
Population, July 1, 2022: 1,138,331
Housing units, July 1, 2022: 429,828
Owner-occupied housing unit rate, 2017-2021: 68.5%
Median value of owner-occupied housing units, 2017-2021 $594,500
Median selected monthly owner costs -with a mortgage, 2017-2021 $2,866
Median selected monthly owner costs -without a mortgage, 2017-2021 $924
Median gross rent, 2017-2021 $1,977
Building permits, 2022: 1,987

Montgomery County, Maryland (US Census):
Population, July 1, 2022: 1,052,521
Housing units, July 1, 2022: 406,801
Owner-occupied housing unit rate, 2017-2021: 65.4%
Median value of owner-occupied housing units, 2017-2021: $508,600
Median selected monthly owner costs -with a mortgage, 2017-2021 $2,679
Median selected monthly owner costs -without a mortgage, 2017-2021 $860
Median gross rent, 2017-2021 $1,844
Building permits, 2022: 724

And if there’s one thing landlords love doing, it’s charging less than when they could charge more! Your numbers show that Fairfax has higher housing costs despite having more units and more construction.

The reality is developers won’t charge less unless we make them build more or put in rent controls.

You can’t force a developer to build more.

Sure you can. Vacancy taxes and land value taxes are two ways to force developers to put more units on the market. More aggressively, eminent domain so the county can seize land and build housing itself.

Government caused MoCo’s issues, and you expect government to step in and fix them? Delusional.

Developers are the only ones who benefit from a housing crisis and you expect them to step in and fix it? Delusional.

Longtime homeowners (I am one) also benefit. Unless you want your adult children and/or your parents to be able to afford to live nearby... I have heard a lot of longtime homeowners, in real life, deny that there even is a housing crisis.

There’s truth to this but it’s a false equivalency. The housing market doesn’t rely on individual homeowners to add units to the market, there’s a huge difference in scale, and there’s a huge difference in frequency. An individual homeowner can benefit from a shortage once, and that’s only if they die or move from an area with a shortage to an area without a shortage. Otherwise, the shortage is a burden that makes assessments and taxes higher. Landlords benefit all the time. It’s time to bury this comparison because it’s a distraction from having a functional housing market.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, Jesus famously blesses those who give hungry people nothing to eat, thirsty people nothing to drink, strangers no shelter, people without clothes no clothes, and sick and imprisoned people no care!

Relevance? Does he advocate you forcing other people to pay for it? You are welcome to pay for whatever you want to pay for, based on on some mythical character, or whatever basis you like. But what you are really advocating is forcing other people to pay with their earnings.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:MoCo is a second-tier county. Its new residents are mostly people who buy single family houses because they can’t afford to buy in Northwest or Fairfax and people who rent because they can’t afford a rental in Northwest or Fairfax. There are some small enclaves of wealth that offer what NW and Fairfax don’t but other than that MoCo is a cheaper choice, so you end up with extreme wealth on one end and lower incomes on the other.

The delusion runs deep. Sure, people are choosing the likes of Clifton, Centreville, Chantilly, Burke, and Lorton because they're cheaper than MoCo. Quite the sense of humor you have.

Median house prices:
MoCo: $645k
Fairfax: $725k
Clifton: $556k
Centerville: $545k
Chantilly: $745k
Burke: $850k
Lorton: $727k

Fairfax beats MoCo by $80k. Three of the five places you named beat MoCo. Even Lorton beats MoCo. There are cheaper places in Fairfax, but there are cheaper places in MoCo too (like Damascus, $552k).

I wonder what Fairfax has that MoCo doesn’t.

An even more out-of-balance housing market, apparently.

Fairfax has higher housing prices for comparable units even though it builds more units than Montgomery.

In other words, Fairfax has an even more out-of-balance housing market.

That’s ridiculous. If you build more housing, prices go down[/b]. Fairfax has built more housing than MoCo. Guess you’ve never heard of supply and demand or you’re just a NIMBY troll.

If you build more housing, prices go down relative to if you don't build more housing. However, housing in Fairfax is apparently even more expensive than in Montgomery. Why? Because the housing market is even more out of balance with respect to supply and demand.

That’s quite a word salad to say prices don’t actually go down.

The equilibrium price is a function of both supply and demand. When supply goes up, but demand goes up more, the equilibrium price goes up. That's not word salad, it's Econ 101.

Doesn’t change the fact that prices don’t actually go down. Why is there so much more demand in Fairfax?

We don't actually know that there is "so much more demand" in Fairfax, do we?

For example, in Fairfax, in 2021, there were 84,274 units in rental housing complexes, with a vacancy rate of 7.1%, and an average monthly rent of $1,913. The 2021 population was 1,139,720 (down 0.9% from 1,150,309 in 2020), the median household income was $134,115, and the median family income was $159,645. In Montgomery, in 2021, there were 85,410 units in rental housing complexes, with a vacancy rate of 6%, and an average monthly rent of $1,759. The 2021 population was 1,054,829 (down 0.7% from 1,062,061 in 2020), the median household income was $112,854, and the median family income was $139,174.

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/demographics/sites/demographics/files/assets/demographicreports/fullrpt.pdf
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/OLO/Resources/Files/2023_reports/OLOReport2023-5.pdf

You forgot about owner occupied. Fairfax has more units overall. The biggest difference between Montgomery and Fairfax is household income. Housing in Fairfax is more expensive because people can afford to pay more.

And if there's one thing people love doing, it's paying more when they could pay less! The reality is that both Montgomery and Fairfax are not building enough housing to meet demand, and that's why housing in both Montgomery and Fairfax is so expensive.

Fairfax County, Virginia (US Census):
Population, July 1, 2022: 1,138,331
Housing units, July 1, 2022: 429,828
Owner-occupied housing unit rate, 2017-2021: 68.5%
Median value of owner-occupied housing units, 2017-2021 $594,500
Median selected monthly owner costs -with a mortgage, 2017-2021 $2,866
Median selected monthly owner costs -without a mortgage, 2017-2021 $924
Median gross rent, 2017-2021 $1,977
Building permits, 2022: 1,987

Montgomery County, Maryland (US Census):
Population, July 1, 2022: 1,052,521
Housing units, July 1, 2022: 406,801
Owner-occupied housing unit rate, 2017-2021: 65.4%
Median value of owner-occupied housing units, 2017-2021: $508,600
Median selected monthly owner costs -with a mortgage, 2017-2021 $2,679
Median selected monthly owner costs -without a mortgage, 2017-2021 $860
Median gross rent, 2017-2021 $1,844
Building permits, 2022: 724

And if there’s one thing landlords love doing, it’s charging less than when they could charge more! Your numbers show that Fairfax has higher housing costs despite having more units and more construction.

The reality is developers won’t charge less unless we make them build more or put in rent controls.

You can’t force a developer to build more.

Sure you can. Vacancy taxes and land value taxes are two ways to force developers to put more units on the market. More aggressively, eminent domain so the county can seize land and build housing itself.

Ahhhh, nothing better to beautify up a place than communist style bloc housing.

Another approach is simply to cease supporting overly generous social services, which serve only to attract more needy individuals and families.

Yes, Jesus famously blesses those who give hungry people nothing to eat, thirsty people nothing to drink, strangers no shelter, people without clothes no clothes, and sick and imprisoned people no care!

Pretty sure Jesus doesn't bless those who take from the pockets of others to give to the poor