How to choose events for summer dual meets？

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every meet I just laugh as I watch the data person guard the 4 meet sheets with times like they are top secret. It is ridiculous. At relay carnival the referee argued with the data person for 5 min to get a copy with times. There is no reason to have these so “close hold” unless there is something to hide.

What division is this? We send our meet sheets to parents before every A meet, but even if you don’t have it, can’t you just see the times on the NVSL website? You still should have the meet sheet though.

I’m terms of relay carnival, the ref needs the meet sheet to run the meet so I’m sure they weren’t not giving it to the ref on purpose. Maybe they just didn’t know how to print it on the new software?

Not the PP but in NVSL. We get the meet sheet, but not with seed times on it. If you want seed times you have to look up individual swimmers results to figure it all out yourself. The team could just provide the information when they provide the meet sheet but I guess our division voted not to do that. I think it should be mandatory. I strongly suspect our meets were seeded using last year’s times for the last meet because it was so bad.

So bad in what way? Like kids in the outside lanes winning a race once in a while?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every meet I just laugh as I watch the data person guard the 4 meet sheets with times like they are top secret. It is ridiculous. At relay carnival the referee argued with the data person for 5 min to get a copy with times. There is no reason to have these so “close hold” unless there is something to hide.

What division is this? We send our meet sheets to parents before every A meet, but even if you don’t have it, can’t you just see the times on the NVSL website? You still should have the meet sheet though.

I’m terms of relay carnival, the ref needs the meet sheet to run the meet so I’m sure they weren’t not giving it to the ref on purpose. Maybe they just didn’t know how to print it on the new software?

Not the PP but in NVSL. We get the meet sheet, but not with seed times on it. If you want seed times you have to look up individual swimmers results to figure it all out yourself. The team could just provide the information when they provide the meet sheet but I guess our division voted not to do that. I think it should be mandatory. I strongly suspect our meets were seeded using last year’s times for the last meet because it was so bad.

So bad in what way? Like kids in the outside lanes winning a race once in a while?

I am not PP but I would guess kids not making the meet who had faster times from this year. Outside heat happens a lot, at least at our pool, bc age groups are so tight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every meet I just laugh as I watch the data person guard the 4 meet sheets with times like they are top secret. It is ridiculous. At relay carnival the referee argued with the data person for 5 min to get a copy with times. There is no reason to have these so “close hold” unless there is something to hide.

What division is this? We send our meet sheets to parents before every A meet, but even if you don’t have it, can’t you just see the times on the NVSL website? You still should have the meet sheet though.

I’m terms of relay carnival, the ref needs the meet sheet to run the meet so I’m sure they weren’t not giving it to the ref on purpose. Maybe they just didn’t know how to print it on the new software?

Not the PP but in NVSL. We get the meet sheet, but not with seed times on it. If you want seed times you have to look up individual swimmers results to figure it all out yourself. The team could just provide the information when they provide the meet sheet but I guess our division voted not to do that. I think it should be mandatory. I strongly suspect our meets were seeded using last year’s times for the last meet because it was so bad.

So bad in what way? Like kids in the outside lanes winning a race once in a while?

I am not PP but I would guess kids not making the meet who had faster times from this year. Outside heat happens a lot, at least at our pool, bc age groups are so tight.

Things didn’t make sense as far as who was swimming what. Top seeds didn’t race the things they would have won, and raced stuff they would lost unless they dropped time? And it was a massacre even though it was rumored that it was supposed to be close. Odd honestly. Makes you wonder wtf was going on. I haven’t seen all of the seeding I just did my kid’s events and it didn’t make sense on paper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not this week! I didn’t have a swimmer in this situation but Monday times didn’t count for seeding the relays. They had to get teams in before that. Also, our last meet before divisionals is an A meet.

Not true. Results from the Monday B meet changed who swam in some relays for our team.

Interesting, not what we were told!

It may have depended on the division. In ours, Relay teams weren’t due til Tuesday so Monday times were used and did change some relays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not this week! I didn’t have a swimmer in this situation but Monday times didn’t count for seeding the relays. They had to get teams in before that. Also, our last meet before divisionals is an A meet.

Not true. Results from the Monday B meet changed who swam in some relays for our team.

Interesting, not what we were told!

It may have depended on the division. In ours, Relay teams weren’t due til Tuesday so Monday times were used and did change some relays.

That’s what I’ve heard. I don’t know the truth—it didn’t affect our kid but it could have affected others. Someone else responded that they were concerned about keeping volunteers? But that’s easily solved—your kid swims in relay carnivals, expect to volunteer, just make it a rule. They teams don’t need to send THAT many anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is weird. And people that are saying “parents ask too many questions” are sus IMO.

I agree. Circa 2018 we had different coaching staff that didn’t circulate a ladder or meet results and with a new 8U I had no idea that results for A meets were posted online. Therefore when my kid beat 35 other kids in freestyle at a B meet I had no idea they should swim in the next A meet. A couple years later I saw the results in historical data in the new app. They were seeded 3rd fastest in free and never got picked for an A meet.

Fortunately everything is transparent now.

That’s terrible.

And also fiction. Coaches want to win. They swim the fastest kid.

Sure. Good coaches do this.

I know for a fact our coach has seeded meets in ways that were likely to yield fewer team points, in order to favor certain kids—these were not just honest mistakes.

It was a major disappointment to learn about it after sacrificing so many of our kids summers to the team. We thought it was all about clean competition. It’s not.

To young parents reading this—it is a HUGE red flag if your coach won’t share seed times and discuss meet strategy with you. Your coach should want to talk with you and your kids if you have questions. The shouldn’t act like the Wizard of Oz.

NVSL should nip this crap in the bud. Make teams provide the meet sheet with seed times. Only the most involved parents are going to look into it themselves without that, and those parents are probably the ones with kids benefiting from the secrecy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is weird. And people that are saying “parents ask too many questions” are sus IMO.

I agree. Circa 2018 we had different coaching staff that didn’t circulate a ladder or meet results and with a new 8U I had no idea that results for A meets were posted online. Therefore when my kid beat 35 other kids in freestyle at a B meet I had no idea they should swim in the next A meet. A couple years later I saw the results in historical data in the new app. They were seeded 3rd fastest in free and never got picked for an A meet.

Fortunately everything is transparent now.

That’s terrible.

And also fiction. Coaches want to win. They swim the fastest kid.

Sure. Good coaches do this.

I know for a fact our coach has seeded meets in ways that were likely to yield fewer team points, in order to favor certain kids—these were not just honest mistakes.

It was a major disappointment to learn about it after sacrificing so many of our kids summers to the team. We thought it was all about clean competition. It’s not.

To young parents reading this—it is a HUGE red flag if your coach won’t share seed times and discuss meet strategy with you. Your coach should want to talk with you and your kids if you have questions. The shouldn’t act like the Wizard of Oz.

NVSL should nip this crap in the bud. Make teams provide the meet sheet with seed times. Only the most involved parents are going to look into it themselves without that, and those parents are probably the ones with kids benefiting from the secrecy.

Talk to your team rep. They hire the coaches. If they are fine with what's going on, then maybe (a) you are the problem or (b) you should consider joining a different pool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is weird. And people that are saying “parents ask too many questions” are sus IMO.

I agree. Circa 2018 we had different coaching staff that didn’t circulate a ladder or meet results and with a new 8U I had no idea that results for A meets were posted online. Therefore when my kid beat 35 other kids in freestyle at a B meet I had no idea they should swim in the next A meet. A couple years later I saw the results in historical data in the new app. They were seeded 3rd fastest in free and never got picked for an A meet.

Fortunately everything is transparent now.

That’s terrible.

And also fiction. Coaches want to win. They swim the fastest kid.

Sure. Good coaches do this.

I know for a fact our coach has seeded meets in ways that were likely to yield fewer team points, in order to favor certain kids—these were not just honest mistakes.

It was a major disappointment to learn about it after sacrificing so many of our kids summers to the team. We thought it was all about clean competition. It’s not.

To young parents reading this—it is a HUGE red flag if your coach won’t share seed times and discuss meet strategy with you. Your coach should want to talk with you and your kids if you have questions. The shouldn’t act like the Wizard of Oz.

NVSL should nip this crap in the bud. Make teams provide the meet sheet with seed times. Only the most involved parents are going to look into it themselves without that, and those parents are probably the ones with kids benefiting from the secrecy.

Talk to your team rep. They hire the coaches. If they are fine with what's going on, then maybe (a) you are the problem or (b) you should consider joining a different pool.

We have. We aren’t. And not a chance. We can choose to get on with our lives, ignore the teamwork pablum, and have the kid focus on doing their best despite the coach. They’re talented and confident in themselves, because we stepped in and redirected their focus before the coach could destroy that.

My purpose in posting about it is for NVSL parents to consider asking for some reforms so other kids don’t get taken for a ride.

Happy Independence Day!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is weird. And people that are saying “parents ask too many questions” are sus IMO.

I agree. Circa 2018 we had different coaching staff that didn’t circulate a ladder or meet results and with a new 8U I had no idea that results for A meets were posted online. Therefore when my kid beat 35 other kids in freestyle at a B meet I had no idea they should swim in the next A meet. A couple years later I saw the results in historical data in the new app. They were seeded 3rd fastest in free and never got picked for an A meet.

Fortunately everything is transparent now.

That’s terrible.

And also fiction. Coaches want to win. They swim the fastest kid.

Sure. Good coaches do this.

I know for a fact our coach has seeded meets in ways that were likely to yield fewer team points, in order to favor certain kids—these were not just honest mistakes.

It was a major disappointment to learn about it after sacrificing so many of our kids summers to the team. We thought it was all about clean competition. It’s not.

To young parents reading this—it is a HUGE red flag if your coach won’t share seed times and discuss meet strategy with you. Your coach should want to talk with you and your kids if you have questions. The shouldn’t act like the Wizard of Oz.

NVSL should nip this crap in the bud. Make teams provide the meet sheet with seed times. Only the most involved parents are going to look into it themselves without that, and those parents are probably the ones with kids benefiting from the secrecy.

Talk to your team rep. They hire the coaches. If they are fine with what's going on, then maybe (a) you are the problem or (b) you should consider joining a different pool.

Above parent was most definitely the problem. If you want to help the coaches seed meets, considering becoming a rep yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is weird. And people that are saying “parents ask too many questions” are sus IMO.

I agree. Circa 2018 we had different coaching staff that didn’t circulate a ladder or meet results and with a new 8U I had no idea that results for A meets were posted online. Therefore when my kid beat 35 other kids in freestyle at a B meet I had no idea they should swim in the next A meet. A couple years later I saw the results in historical data in the new app. They were seeded 3rd fastest in free and never got picked for an A meet.

Fortunately everything is transparent now.

That’s terrible.

And also fiction. Coaches want to win. They swim the fastest kid.

Sure. Good coaches do this.

I know for a fact our coach has seeded meets in ways that were likely to yield fewer team points, in order to favor certain kids—these were not just honest mistakes.

It was a major disappointment to learn about it after sacrificing so many of our kids summers to the team. We thought it was all about clean competition. It’s not.

To young parents reading this—it is a HUGE red flag if your coach won’t share seed times and discuss meet strategy with you. Your coach should want to talk with you and your kids if you have questions. The shouldn’t act like the Wizard of Oz.

NVSL should nip this crap in the bud. Make teams provide the meet sheet with seed times. Only the most involved parents are going to look into it themselves without that, and those parents are probably the ones with kids benefiting from the secrecy.

Talk to your team rep. They hire the coaches. If they are fine with what's going on, then maybe (a) you are the problem or (b) you should consider joining a different pool.

Above parent was most definitely the problem. If you want to help the coaches seed meets, considering becoming a rep yourself.

IKR? If you want your kid to win, rig the game yourself. The PP is so lazy. How dare they expect fair competition! So entitled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is weird. And people that are saying “parents ask too many questions” are sus IMO.

I agree. Circa 2018 we had different coaching staff that didn’t circulate a ladder or meet results and with a new 8U I had no idea that results for A meets were posted online. Therefore when my kid beat 35 other kids in freestyle at a B meet I had no idea they should swim in the next A meet. A couple years later I saw the results in historical data in the new app. They were seeded 3rd fastest in free and never got picked for an A meet.

Fortunately everything is transparent now.

That’s terrible.

And also fiction. Coaches want to win. They swim the fastest kid.

Sure. Good coaches do this.

I know for a fact our coach has seeded meets in ways that were likely to yield fewer team points, in order to favor certain kids—these were not just honest mistakes.

It was a major disappointment to learn about it after sacrificing so many of our kids summers to the team. We thought it was all about clean competition. It’s not.

To young parents reading this—it is a HUGE red flag if your coach won’t share seed times and discuss meet strategy with you. Your coach should want to talk with you and your kids if you have questions. The shouldn’t act like the Wizard of Oz.

NVSL should nip this crap in the bud. Make teams provide the meet sheet with seed times. Only the most involved parents are going to look into it themselves without that, and those parents are probably the ones with kids benefiting from the secrecy.

Talk to your team rep. They hire the coaches. If they are fine with what's going on, then maybe (a) you are the problem or (b) you should consider joining a different pool.

Above parent was most definitely the problem. If you want to help the coaches seed meets, considering becoming a rep yourself.

IKR? If you want your kid to win, rig the game yourself. The PP is so lazy. How dare they expect fair competition! So entitled.

Lol!

I’m the PP who had the 8U swimmer quoted above. Swimming is probably one of the easiest sports to keep fair - it’s literally based on whoever has the fastest time. I am so glad we have a coaching staff that is completely transparent now. My kids are old enough to see their times, strive to cut time etc and I want them rewarded fairly for their efforts when they do.

My kids aren’t going to the Olympics in swimming - but they absolutely should learn that when you work hard and get better at something you should get to swim in the A meet/Relay etc. You know life lessons and all of that stuff…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is weird. And people that are saying “parents ask too many questions” are sus IMO.

I agree. Circa 2018 we had different coaching staff that didn’t circulate a ladder or meet results and with a new 8U I had no idea that results for A meets were posted online. Therefore when my kid beat 35 other kids in freestyle at a B meet I had no idea they should swim in the next A meet. A couple years later I saw the results in historical data in the new app. They were seeded 3rd fastest in free and never got picked for an A meet.

Fortunately everything is transparent now.

That’s terrible.

And also fiction. Coaches want to win. They swim the fastest kid.

Sure. Good coaches do this.

I know for a fact our coach has seeded meets in ways that were likely to yield fewer team points, in order to favor certain kids—these were not just honest mistakes.

It was a major disappointment to learn about it after sacrificing so many of our kids summers to the team. We thought it was all about clean competition. It’s not.

To young parents reading this—it is a HUGE red flag if your coach won’t share seed times and discuss meet strategy with you. Your coach should want to talk with you and your kids if you have questions. The shouldn’t act like the Wizard of Oz.

NVSL should nip this crap in the bud. Make teams provide the meet sheet with seed times. Only the most involved parents are going to look into it themselves without that, and those parents are probably the ones with kids benefiting from the secrecy.

Talk to your team rep. They hire the coaches. If they are fine with what's going on, then maybe (a) you are the problem or (b) you should consider joining a different pool.

Above parent was most definitely the problem. If you want to help the coaches seed meets, considering becoming a rep yourself.

IKR? If you want your kid to win, rig the game yourself. The PP is so lazy. How dare they expect fair competition! So entitled.

Lol!

I’m the PP who had the 8U swimmer quoted above. Swimming is probably one of the easiest sports to keep fair - it’s literally based on whoever has the fastest time. I am so glad we have a coaching staff that is completely transparent now. My kids are old enough to see their times, strive to cut time etc and I want them rewarded fairly for their efforts when they do.

My kids aren’t going to the Olympics in swimming - but they absolutely should learn that when you work hard and get better at something you should get to swim in the A meet/Relay etc. You know life lessons and all of that stuff…

Sounds like a good lesson in implicit bias and systemic advantages and disadvantages too.

[Anonymous]

I can’t believe there are teams that don’t email out the most recent ladder (top 10) to all team members after each meet along with the full results. It’s 2023. There is zero excuse for that. Shame on you if you’re in charge of a team that doesn’t do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my kids uses the B meets to try to move up the ladder to make A meets or better lanes for A meets. So she will strategically look at which strokes she thinks she can drop time to move up relative to others on the team.

The other two just pick the two events they like the best.

Both systems are fine with me

We want to do this because we know one kid is very close and beating an A meet swimmer in some strokes but we can only see our own times online. Can’t see anyone else’s

Are NVSL meets posted to MeetMobile? If so, you can get that app and see all the timed posted there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have to say, every league has quirks and issues, but MCSL feels so much more transparent than NVSL. I like they post the all star list each week and full meet results (including kids who didn’t place).

As does the PMSL league.