Woke dems rename Lee-Jackson Hwy in Fairfax County, Virginia

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a European parent whose native country endured a civil war in the 20th century (losing side were communists), I find it bizarre that there are ANY monuments, roads, schools, and other public facilities/structures in the US that bear the name of the losing side. There certainly aren't any in my parent's native country.

Good riddance to all the names of the traitors who wanted to rip the country apart--and their white supremacist, slavery-loving ideology.

Oh well this is easy. It’s because the war didn’t stay won. By 1876 it’s all over, and the Southern states are lost as far as the Constitution for the next several decades, depending on where you want to draw the line to bring them back.

It’s interesting because in the interest of preserving the union, the North was probably more forgiving and gracious than it should have been. In hindsight, all of the traitors should have been summarily executed, starting with Lee, who should have been castrated and had his testes shoved down his throat in a public square before being shot in the head. Jefferson Davis, too.

Wow. Unchecked anger issues.

Yeah, the thing about using violence and abuse of power to enslave human beings for centuries—buying and selling them, raping and whipping them—is that it makes people angry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Rich confederate history" is a funny way to spell slave-owning traitors.

Agreed. I wonder if Germans celebrate their “rich nazi history”…somehow I doubt it. And yes, slavery was just as bad as nazism.

Well first of all, there are some living survivors who bare the pain of the what the nazis did. Slavery was 250 years ago, if it were not for history books no one would even know if it. There is not a single person who is directly affected by Slavery living on the face of the planet in 2023.

150 years ago.

And legal systemic racism (with reminders like the statues & street names) lasted much longer.

Holy crap. PP have you never heard of family histories? Of actual history? Of course people would know of it. What a bizarre view. Things don't magically disappear when the last survivor dies. And one need not have been personally involved to be greatly affected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m fine with ditching the old Confederate names, but why does it need a new name? Just call it “50.”

I mean, why not take the opportunity to honor someone great? Sure, it will take some of us a while to get used to it, or maybe we will never get used to it, but plenty of other folks will have no issue. Anyone new to the area will learn only the new name, and in 20 years it will be well established and only old fogeys will still be complaining that they can't remember that it's not Lee Highway and nothing should change, and this concern will seem even sillier than it does now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Rich confederate history" is a funny way to spell slave-owning traitors.

Agreed. I wonder if Germans celebrate their “rich nazi history”…somehow I doubt it. And yes, slavery was just as bad as nazism.

Well first of all, there are some living survivors who bare the pain of the what the nazis did. Slavery was 250 years ago, if it were not for history books no one would even know if it. There is not a single person who is directly affected by Slavery living on the face of the planet in 2023.

Are you effing kidding me??? That has got to be the most ridiculous, ignorant and stupid post I have ever read on dcum. You need to read a history book on slavery and its legacy. Visit the African American history museum in DC. You have A LOT to learn about slavery and its effects on black people in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Rich confederate history" is a funny way to spell slave-owning traitors.

Agreed. I wonder if Germans celebrate their “rich nazi history”…somehow I doubt it. And yes, slavery was just as bad as nazism.

Well first of all, there are some living survivors who bare the pain of the what the nazis did. Slavery was 250 years ago, if it were not for history books no one would even know if it. There is not a single person who is directly affected by Slavery living on the face of the planet in 2023.

Are you effing kidding me??? That has got to be the most ridiculous, ignorant and stupid post I have ever read on dcum. You need to read a history book on slavery and its legacy. Visit the African American history museum in DC. You have A LOT to learn about slavery and its effects on black people in this country.

Its effects on everyone in this country. Including people whose ancestors arrived after 1865. Or after 1965. The US would not be the country it is now, if not for slavery and its legacies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Rich confederate history" is a funny way to spell slave-owning traitors.

Agreed. I wonder if Germans celebrate their “rich nazi history”…somehow I doubt it. And yes, slavery was just as bad as nazism.

Well first of all, there are some living survivors who bare the pain of the what the nazis did. Slavery was 250 years ago, if it were not for history books no one would even know if it. There is not a single person who is directly affected by Slavery living on the face of the planet in 2023.

Are you effing kidding me??? That has got to be the most ridiculous, ignorant and stupid post I have ever read on dcum. You need to read a history book on slavery and its legacy. Visit the African American history museum in DC. You have A LOT to learn about slavery and its effects on black people in this country.

Its effects on everyone in this country. Including people whose ancestors arrived after 1865. Or after 1965. The US would not be the country it is now, if not for slavery and its legacies.

The “legacies” part is really important. The U.S. basically had an Apartheid system for a hundred years after slavery ended. And even after federal laws were changed in the 1950s and 1969s to no longer allow legalized discrimination, there was massive resistance to integration and other efforts to afford equal rights and dignity to Black people. Much of the machinery that functioned to relegate Black people to second-class status continues to operate today, which is why segregation persists across neighborhoods and schools to this day and why we see continued racial disparities in economic opportunity, criminal punishment, and other key aspects of American life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Rich confederate history" is a funny way to spell slave-owning traitors.

Agreed. I wonder if Germans celebrate their “rich nazi history”…somehow I doubt it. And yes, slavery was just as bad as nazism.

Well first of all, there are some living survivors who bare the pain of the what the nazis did. Slavery was 250 years ago, if it were not for history books no one would even know if it. There is not a single person who is directly affected by Slavery living on the face of the planet in 2023.

That is a very ignorant statement. People are directly affected by slavery today. There are many people who would not be in the country without slavery. After slavery ended there was historic oppression of the former slave population. Blacks were denied economic opportunities by the force of law for generations in this country. Property was taking by force and laws enacted that restricted movement, employment and educational opportunities that were available to whites. It is still happening today.

After the civil war, formerly enslaved people bought about 15 million acres across the US (mostly in the south), but those landowners lacked clear legal title and also often did not have access to legal advice for estate planning — combine that with lending discrimination (redlining) and the diasporas that scattered families across the country and that land has become easy pickings for crooked property developers and their crooked lawyers.
These crooks use the obscure law surrounding "heirs' property" to steal land from black people. By locating a single descendant — or person who claims to be a descendant — anywhere in America, the crooks can force a sale of family property that has been continuously occupied for a century or more. These sales take place at poorly attended auctions, and the property sells well below market value.

Ground zero for this theft is Hilton Head, South Carolina, the historic home of the Gullah people, who have been systematically deprived of their ancestral lands for 70+ years, since their isolated homes became a sought-after vacation destination for wealthy whites.

https://boingboing.net/2017/06/27/heirs-property.html

If you look at historical data. The earlier ones ancestors arrive to this country, the wealthier and more established the family. This does not apply to blacks. The majority of blacks were forcibly shipped to this country before 1808.

[Anonymous]

Great news! I support this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do they have nothing better to do than to rename every single street and school, most of which residents don’t care enough about? So sad that northern virginia’s rich confederate history (Robert E Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia, Arlington Cemetery, etc.) history has attempted to be erased, as evident in changes to Lee Hwy, Jackson Lee Hwy, Jefferson Davis Hwy, many of Fairfax City and Alexandria City’s streets, Robert E Lee HS, JEB Stuart HS, Fairfax HS Rebels, Loudoun County Raiders in LoCo, and PWC’s Stonewall Jackson HS, just to name a few.

Good. Probably shouldn't continue to memorialize and white wash the racist past of this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Rich confederate history" is a funny way to spell slave-owning traitors.

Agreed. I wonder if Germans celebrate their “rich nazi history”…somehow I doubt it. And yes, slavery was just as bad as nazism.

Well first of all, there are some living survivors who bare the pain of the what the nazis did. Slavery was 250 years ago, if it were not for history books no one would even know if it. There is not a single person who is directly affected by Slavery living on the face of the planet in 2023.

Are you effing kidding me??? That has got to be the most ridiculous, ignorant and stupid post I have ever read on dcum. You need to read a history book on slavery and its legacy. Visit the African American history museum in DC. You have A LOT to learn about slavery and its effects on black people in this country.

Its effects on everyone in this country. Including people whose ancestors arrived after 1865. Or after 1965. The US would not be the country it is now, if not for slavery and its legacies.

The “legacies” part is really important. The U.S. basically had an Apartheid system for a hundred years after slavery ended. And even after federal laws were changed in the 1950s and 1969s to no longer allow legalized discrimination, there was massive resistance to integration and other efforts to afford equal rights and dignity to Black people. Much of the machinery that functioned to relegate Black people to second-class status continues to operate today, which is why segregation persists across neighborhoods and schools to this day and why we see continued racial disparities in economic opportunity, criminal punishment, and other key aspects of American life.

Thank you. I'm glad that the highway's been renamed. The racists are really outing themselves here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do they have nothing better to do than to rename every single street and school, most of which residents don’t care enough about? So sad that northern virginia’s rich confederate history (Robert E Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia, Arlington Cemetery, etc.) history has attempted to be erased, as evident in changes to Lee Hwy, Jackson Lee Hwy, Jefferson Davis Hwy, many of Fairfax City and Alexandria City’s streets, Robert E Lee HS, JEB Stuart HS, Fairfax HS Rebels, Loudoun County Raiders in LoCo, and PWC’s Stonewall Jackson HS, just to name a few.

You'll get no sympathy on these boards Op, it's as if they learned nothing about the Civil War and what President Lincoln and the soldiers who lost their lives meant to the end of slavery. They have a belief that if we just rewrite every history book, and erase all monuments then hate will go away. But it won't, because hate will always live in these peoples hearts and minds, always.

I grew up in a northern state that wasn't part of the Union during the Civil War with no ancestors that lived in America at the time, so there was no evidence of the Civil War around me growing up nor have I ever had strong opinions about it other than I have always supported the Union and do not support slavery and the cause of the Confederacy. Perhaps I may have a unique take, but I kind of find all the remnants (streets, schools, bases, etc.) of the Confederacy to be some quaint anachronism that is part of the charm and character of Virginia that gives it culture and flavor. I recognize that many of these names were given decades ago and maybe not for good reasons, but don't feel that in keeping them, we are honoring anything. It's part of the culture and the history of this area and every time I drive on "Jefferson Davis Hwy" or see one of these names, I chuckle, remember that I'm in Virginia, and I am reminded of this area's past and its lessons. I find it odd that in the 150 years since the Civil War ended and long after the children and even grandchildren of anyone who lived during that era have died, it's become such a controversy and source of great pain to people. I just feel something unique is lost when we go around and erase unique reminders of our history even the bad parts. We can keep them but at the same time remember what they meant. As another example, I'm very anti-communist and fully aware of how evil Lenin and Stalin were, but feel the same way about tearing down their statues.

If you were one of those people, or knew any of those people, you would know that it’s been “a source of great pain” to them this entire time.

But that's the thing, I don't think it was. This only became a big deal just recently starting in 2020. People here are screaming about "traitors," but at the time, the Union forgave the South and welcomed back those that fought against it. If folks who can do that who lost family and had their lives uprooted because of a war the South started, why can't we 150 years later, forgive our fellow countrymen who fought against us?

Honestly, I don't really care either way, but do feel we lose part of our history and culture and risk repeating the mistakes of our past.

WTAF? You don’t think slavery or ongoing systemic racism was a great source of pain to people over the last 50 years?

The ignorance here is astounding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a European parent whose native country endured a civil war in the 20th century (losing side were communists), I find it bizarre that there are ANY monuments, roads, schools, and other public facilities/structures in the US that bear the name of the losing side. There certainly aren't any in my parent's native country.

Good riddance to all the names of the traitors who wanted to rip the country apart--and their white supremacist, slavery-loving ideology.

Oh well this is easy. It’s because the war didn’t stay won. By 1876 it’s all over, and the Southern states are lost as far as the Constitution for the next several decades, depending on where you want to draw the line to bring them back.

It’s interesting because in the interest of preserving the union, the North was probably more forgiving and gracious than it should have been. In hindsight, all of the traitors should have been summarily executed, starting with Lee, who should have been castrated and had his testes shoved down his throat in a public square before being shot in the head. Jefferson Davis, too.

Wow. Unchecked anger issues.

Yeah, the thing about using violence and abuse of power to enslave human beings for centuries—buying and selling them, raping and whipping them—is that it makes people angry.

+1

The apologists in 2023 make me angry too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Rich confederate history" is a funny way to spell slave-owning traitors.

Agreed. I wonder if Germans celebrate their “rich nazi history”…somehow I doubt it. And yes, slavery was just as bad as nazism.

Well first of all, there are some living survivors who bare the pain of the what the nazis did. Slavery was 250 years ago, if it were not for history books no one would even know if it. There is not a single person who is directly affected by Slavery living on the face of the planet in 2023.

I say this sincerely; please go visit the Smithsonian Museum of African American History and Culture. Set aside the day, take your time and go through it with an open heart and an open mind. It does a masterful job on putting together all the links in the chain of the history from the earliest days of slavery to where we are today.

I’d also recommend you watch Finding Your Roots on PBS. Watch the visceral pain on the guests’ faces when they look at the documents showing their ancestors were treated as chattel-represented by a mere nameless entry. Slave owners literally erased the history of these people by not recording their names in any kind of record, other than maybe a first name in a will. Why should they get to have their own names remembered and celebrated?

Go to the museum and come back and have this conversation.

+1

Please do this, PP. This would be a great conversation to have after you visit.

[Anonymous]

Removing Lee and Jackson’s names from roads and schools is the lowest of the lowest hanging fruit. All it does is make smug, self-righteous, and privileged white people feel good about themselves.

Want to make real change? Reform the tax, housing, zoning, education, law enforcement, and transportation policies that continue to uphold systematic racism in 2023 and trap a growing underclass of mostly Black and brown people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Rich confederate history" is a funny way to spell slave-owning traitors.

Agreed. I wonder if Germans celebrate their “rich nazi history”…somehow I doubt it. And yes, slavery was just as bad as nazism.

Well first of all, there are some living survivors who bare the pain of the what the nazis did. Slavery was 250 years ago, if it were not for history books no one would even know if it. There is not a single person who is directly affected by Slavery living on the face of the planet in 2023.

There’s a man living in DC whose father was a slave.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/07/27/slave-son-racism-george-floyd/