I truly do not understand the anti WFH sentiment

[Anonymous]

Different jobs and businesses have different abilities to WFH - why do you want everyone in the work force to have to return because you prefer it? that's the attitude that people object to - if you want to go into the office or need to do so - if others can meet or exceed the work obligations from home they should be able to - this was happening before covid, and covid only accelerated it. You can be a horse and buggy driver after cars come into the picture for only so long

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A “dirty secret” of WFH at my 6,000 person old firm that is fully remote is “job abandonment” was number one termination reason in 2022.

Also we pay out vacation days. So people literally rarely put in vacation days to build them up.

People have figured out let’s say I make 120k a year. And I have RSUs vest at 2k a month and accrue vacation days at 2 per month why quit. Just start new job and ghost or just pretend or pretend to work it can take weeks, months etc. to get terminated. It becomes headache for managers.

I ghosted my old job four months once and new job boss was a pest. I ended up ghosting new job, catching up old job and eventually new job terminated me.

I say 70 percent of employees my old firm did it. So funny. This is why WFH is dying there is never a reason ever to quit. We had retirees, people move back to hone country, people start new business. There is never a reason to quit. Companies are catching on. Which is what RTO is about.

Heck I did a five month consulting gig at $20k a month flat fee. All WFH. Of course I kept my day job. What was downside?

80 percent of Remote people have a second gig. That’s a fact. Other 20 percent 10-15 percent goofing off or SAHMs.

Yes you can goof off in office. But I literally did 3-5 hours a week work for five months. That’s impossible in person to pull off.

This is insane. we are in meetings all day and have rolling deliverables. if your employee is not so busy that you need to make sure they are sitting in an office to KNOW they just doing your job, then you don't need to have that employee to begin with

I have strict KPIs and deliverables. Why do you have meetings all day? My job I just left after 2 years 2 months had two hours of meetings a week and a 90 minute meeting every other week. My meetings was 12-1 on Monday, 1-2 on Thursday and 7 am to 830 pm every other Thursday. I on my own never scheduled a single meeting unless forced. And always early or late or at lunch. I kept 9-12 and 2-430 free as “focus” hours.

The job countered when I left. I literally could do 3 months of work in three weeks time. In person I would do more work. At home I hit the kpi and stop. Either goof off or do another job.

Ironically in WFH I looked like the hard worker. I have a 7 am meeting with UK and same day a 7 pm call or slack messages with San Fran. I only work before 9am or lunch or after 6 pm.

I'd seen a few of your posts - they're easily recognizable - and I suggest that in all your free time, you take a remedial writing class.

Perhaps a couple of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because we are human and need social interaction, facial expressions, and time to communicate outside of discrete work tasks to feel good about ourselves and be productive. People need to see and hear each other to informally learn from each other. We know that being together in person reduces cortisol and stress levels. Being isolated associated with higher levels of disease.

Except that I get all those things from outside of work. I come together with FRIENDS who I get to choose and enjoy way more frequently now that I am not spendingt so much time on a soul sucking commute.

If I could have an easy 10-15 minute commute, and come and go from an office as I pleased, sure. But spending 45 minutes in hellish DC traffic that could flex up to 90 minutes with the slightest of issues (rain, accident) is WAY worse for my health than the work place "isolation". Btw, I live 7 miles from my office.

These types of posts and comments acting like whomever wants to come into the office has no friends or no life are straight up bullying.

I bet 80% of the people commenting on here that everyone should do what they want and makes them happy think that they’re liberals.

You don't know the definition of bullying.

This is attempting to coerce using personal attacks. When a coworker says “well I like being in the office a day or two a week so I can get out of my house and see people” and someone else says “I do that with my FRIENDS” and they all laugh. That’s bullying. That’s what happens at my work and the place I previously worked. When someone states “you want me to be in so I can see your ugly face and smell your ugly breath”, which is written on this thread, that’s also bullying.

The WFH people are losing now and they can’t handle it. They get progressively more aggressive and they’ll screw up hybrid for everyone else if they don’t stop saying a couple days in the office is useless so they might as well stay home. You know, there’s another side to that.

WFH is not losing. there are NO good reasons to make people travel to sit in an alternative room to do their work. Being in that room so the other people who wish to be there aren't alone is NOT a good reason. not trusting someone to do their work is NOT a good reason.
Things there aren't good reasons for eventually die. that's called progress.

These kind of absolutist comments - on either side of the issue - are both silly and counterproductive. In some industries, there are very good reasons to require an in-office presence. In others, maybe there aren't - but individual productivity is rarely, if ever, the only metric that should be considered. Regardless, the discussion woudl be a lot more productive if people didn't stake out extremist positions like this.

[Anonymous]

Because bosses for whatever reason are afraid to customize employees' privileges depending on factors. Employee A has worked here for 10 years and been a stellar worker for all that time. Employee B is fresh out of college and needs a lot of guidance. Boss lets Employee A work from home and Employee B throws a fit about the unfairness, maybe even accusing boss of discrimination. Too much hassle.

[Anonymous]

Multiple early 20s employees where I work have tried to make their case that they NEED to work from home because of their dogs...think about how stupid and silly this sounds to a boss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Multiple early 20s employees where I work have tried to make their case that they NEED to work from home because of their dogs...think about how stupid and silly this sounds to a boss.

Well, that sounds as stupid as someone coming in to show their face with no added value but I get your point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because we are human and need social interaction, facial expressions, and time to communicate outside of discrete work tasks to feel good about ourselves and be productive. People need to see and hear each other to informally learn from each other. We know that being together in person reduces cortisol and stress levels. Being isolated associated with higher levels of disease.

Except that I get all those things from outside of work. I come together with FRIENDS who I get to choose and enjoy way more frequently now that I am not spendingt so much time on a soul sucking commute.

If I could have an easy 10-15 minute commute, and come and go from an office as I pleased, sure. But spending 45 minutes in hellish DC traffic that could flex up to 90 minutes with the slightest of issues (rain, accident) is WAY worse for my health than the work place "isolation". Btw, I live 7 miles from my office.

These types of posts and comments acting like whomever wants to come into the office has no friends or no life are straight up bullying.

I bet 80% of the people commenting on here that everyone should do what they want and makes them happy think that they’re liberals.

You don't know the definition of bullying.

This is attempting to coerce using personal attacks. When a coworker says “well I like being in the office a day or two a week so I can get out of my house and see people” and someone else says “I do that with my FRIENDS” and they all laugh. That’s bullying. That’s what happens at my work and the place I previously worked. When someone states “you want me to be in so I can see your ugly face and smell your ugly breath”, which is written on this thread, that’s also bullying.

The WFH people are losing now and they can’t handle it. They get progressively more aggressive and they’ll screw up hybrid for everyone else if they don’t stop saying a couple days in the office is useless so they might as well stay home. You know, there’s another side to that.

1. NOT bullying

2. You sound like an awful person

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A “dirty secret” of WFH at my 6,000 person old firm that is fully remote is “job abandonment” was number one termination reason in 2022.

Also we pay out vacation days. So people literally rarely put in vacation days to build them up.

People have figured out let’s say I make 120k a year. And I have RSUs vest at 2k a month and accrue vacation days at 2 per month why quit. Just start new job and ghost or just pretend or pretend to work it can take weeks, months etc. to get terminated. It becomes headache for managers.

I ghosted my old job four months once and new job boss was a pest. I ended up ghosting new job, catching up old job and eventually new job terminated me.

I say 70 percent of employees my old firm did it. So funny. This is why WFH is dying there is never a reason ever to quit. We had retirees, people move back to hone country, people start new business. There is never a reason to quit. Companies are catching on. Which is what RTO is about.

Heck I did a five month consulting gig at $20k a month flat fee. All WFH. Of course I kept my day job. What was downside?

80 percent of Remote people have a second gig. That’s a fact. Other 20 percent 10-15 percent goofing off or SAHMs.

Yes you can goof off in office. But I literally did 3-5 hours a week work for five months. That’s impossible in person to pull off.

This is insane. we are in meetings all day and have rolling deliverables. if your employee is not so busy that you need to make sure they are sitting in an office to KNOW they just doing your job, then you don't need to have that employee to begin with

I have strict KPIs and deliverables. Why do you have meetings all day? My job I just left after 2 years 2 months had two hours of meetings a week and a 90 minute meeting every other week. My meetings was 12-1 on Monday, 1-2 on Thursday and 7 am to 830 pm every other Thursday. I on my own never scheduled a single meeting unless forced. And always early or late or at lunch. I kept 9-12 and 2-430 free as “focus” hours.

The job countered when I left. I literally could do 3 months of work in three weeks time. In person I would do more work. At home I hit the kpi and stop. Either goof off or do another job.

Ironically in WFH I looked like the hard worker. I have a 7 am meeting with UK and same day a 7 pm call or slack messages with San Fran. I only work before 9am or lunch or after 6 pm.

I'd seen a few of your posts - they're easily recognizable - and I suggest that in all your free time, you take a remedial writing class.

Perhaps a couple of them.

Sorry I am not a fruit-loop like you. My secretary has better legs and spelling than me. Not my job to spell my job is to WOW.

[Anonymous]

It’s interesting to me that a lot of old timers think office = the employee is working

Everyone now has a smart phone. Someone who is a slacker and unproductive is likely to just sit in their office/cube on their phone. Yes, management might see this but it’s not like your typical manager has the time or ability to constantly watch an employee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A “dirty secret” of WFH at my 6,000 person old firm that is fully remote is “job abandonment” was number one termination reason in 2022.

Also we pay out vacation days. So people literally rarely put in vacation days to build them up.

People have figured out let’s say I make 120k a year. And I have RSUs vest at 2k a month and accrue vacation days at 2 per month why quit. Just start new job and ghost or just pretend or pretend to work it can take weeks, months etc. to get terminated. It becomes headache for managers.

I ghosted my old job four months once and new job boss was a pest. I ended up ghosting new job, catching up old job and eventually new job terminated me.

I say 70 percent of employees my old firm did it. So funny. This is why WFH is dying there is never a reason ever to quit. We had retirees, people move back to hone country, people start new business. There is never a reason to quit. Companies are catching on. Which is what RTO is about.

Heck I did a five month consulting gig at $20k a month flat fee. All WFH. Of course I kept my day job. What was downside?

80 percent of Remote people have a second gig. That’s a fact. Other 20 percent 10-15 percent goofing off or SAHMs.

Yes you can goof off in office. But I literally did 3-5 hours a week work for five months. That’s impossible in person to pull off.

This is insane. we are in meetings all day and have rolling deliverables. if your employee is not so busy that you need to make sure they are sitting in an office to KNOW they just doing your job, then you don't need to have that employee to begin with

I have strict KPIs and deliverables. Why do you have meetings all day? My job I just left after 2 years 2 months had two hours of meetings a week and a 90 minute meeting every other week. My meetings was 12-1 on Monday, 1-2 on Thursday and 7 am to 830 pm every other Thursday. I on my own never scheduled a single meeting unless forced. And always early or late or at lunch. I kept 9-12 and 2-430 free as “focus” hours.

The job countered when I left. I literally could do 3 months of work in three weeks time. In person I would do more work. At home I hit the kpi and stop. Either goof off or do another job.

Ironically in WFH I looked like the hard worker. I have a 7 am meeting with UK and same day a 7 pm call or slack messages with San Fran. I only work before 9am or lunch or after 6 pm.

I'd seen a few of your posts - they're easily recognizable - and I suggest that in all your free time, you take a remedial writing class.

Perhaps a couple of them.

Sorry I am not a fruit-loop like you. My secretary has better legs and spelling than me. Not my job to spell my job is to WOW.

Are you 100 years old? My father is 80, and he doesn't refer to "secretaries" and comment on their legs. It's 2023 and that shit ain't acceptable any more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because we are human and need social interaction, facial expressions, and time to communicate outside of discrete work tasks to feel good about ourselves and be productive. People need to see and hear each other to informally learn from each other. We know that being together in person reduces cortisol and stress levels. Being isolated associated with higher levels of disease.

Except that I get all those things from outside of work. I come together with FRIENDS who I get to choose and enjoy way more frequently now that I am not spendingt so much time on a soul sucking commute.

If I could have an easy 10-15 minute commute, and come and go from an office as I pleased, sure. But spending 45 minutes in hellish DC traffic that could flex up to 90 minutes with the slightest of issues (rain, accident) is WAY worse for my health than the work place "isolation". Btw, I live 7 miles from my office.

These types of posts and comments acting like whomever wants to come into the office has no friends or no life are straight up bullying.

I bet 80% of the people commenting on here that everyone should do what they want and makes them happy think that they’re liberals.

You don't know the definition of bullying.

This is attempting to coerce using personal attacks. When a coworker says “well I like being in the office a day or two a week so I can get out of my house and see people” and someone else says “I do that with my FRIENDS” and they all laugh. That’s bullying. That’s what happens at my work and the place I previously worked. When someone states “you want me to be in so I can see your ugly face and smell your ugly breath”, which is written on this thread, that’s also bullying.

The WFH people are losing now and they can’t handle it. They get progressively more aggressive and they’ll screw up hybrid for everyone else if they don’t stop saying a couple days in the office is useless so they might as well stay home. You know, there’s another side to that.

1. NOT bullying

2. You sound like an awful person

Agreed on both counts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting to me that a lot of old timers think office = the employee is working

Everyone now has a smart phone. Someone who is a slacker and unproductive is likely to just sit in their office/cube on their phone. Yes, management might see this but it’s not like your typical manager has the time or ability to constantly watch an employee.

I don't think pro in office posters are necessarily old folks. I think they are the ones forced to go in person and don't like the fact that others are still doing WFH. Jealousy basically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A “dirty secret” of WFH at my 6,000 person old firm that is fully remote is “job abandonment” was number one termination reason in 2022.

Also we pay out vacation days. So people literally rarely put in vacation days to build them up.

People have figured out let’s say I make 120k a year. And I have RSUs vest at 2k a month and accrue vacation days at 2 per month why quit. Just start new job and ghost or just pretend or pretend to work it can take weeks, months etc. to get terminated. It becomes headache for managers.

I ghosted my old job four months once and new job boss was a pest. I ended up ghosting new job, catching up old job and eventually new job terminated me.

I say 70 percent of employees my old firm did it. So funny. This is why WFH is dying there is never a reason ever to quit. We had retirees, people move back to hone country, people start new business. There is never a reason to quit. Companies are catching on. Which is what RTO is about.

Heck I did a five month consulting gig at $20k a month flat fee. All WFH. Of course I kept my day job. What was downside?

80 percent of Remote people have a second gig. That’s a fact. Other 20 percent 10-15 percent goofing off or SAHMs.

Yes you can goof off in office. But I literally did 3-5 hours a week work for five months. That’s impossible in person to pull off.

This is insane. we are in meetings all day and have rolling deliverables. if your employee is not so busy that you need to make sure they are sitting in an office to KNOW they just doing your job, then you don't need to have that employee to begin with

I have strict KPIs and deliverables. Why do you have meetings all day? My job I just left after 2 years 2 months had two hours of meetings a week and a 90 minute meeting every other week. My meetings was 12-1 on Monday, 1-2 on Thursday and 7 am to 830 pm every other Thursday. I on my own never scheduled a single meeting unless forced. And always early or late or at lunch. I kept 9-12 and 2-430 free as “focus” hours.

The job countered when I left. I literally could do 3 months of work in three weeks time. In person I would do more work. At home I hit the kpi and stop. Either goof off or do another job.

Ironically in WFH I looked like the hard worker. I have a 7 am meeting with UK and same day a 7 pm call or slack messages with San Fran. I only work before 9am or lunch or after 6 pm.

I'd seen a few of your posts - they're easily recognizable - and I suggest that in all your free time, you take a remedial writing class.

Perhaps a couple of them.

Sorry I am not a fruit-loop like you. My secretary has better legs and spelling than me. Not my job to spell my job is to WOW.

Are you 100 years old? My father is 80, and he doesn't refer to "secretaries" and comment on their legs. It's 2023 and that shit ain't acceptable any more.

+1. Put the cow to pasture

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people abuse it. I assume. I don’t have evidence, but it feels like something that’s true. Therefore, no one should be allowed to do it.

People goof off in offices, too. Guess we shouldn't be allowed to have offices.

THIS.

Here's the deal. If you don't feel like the people you have can WFH and produce, then you need to fire them. Bringing them back to the office just because you don't know how to manage people is your problem. Bringing them back to the office is likely to only worsen a bad situation, because now they feel like they are being punished. Employees who feel like they are being punished are not employees you want because now you are risking sabotage, negativity, poor culture, etc.

Yes, if you are a nurse providing patient care, you need to be in a building. There are very clear lines IMO about who needs to be onsite and who doesn't. If the job can be done from home, then it should be allowed. If you can't trust your people to WFH, and they are WFH, you need to step up as a manager. Offer hotelling options for folks who like to be onsite (assuming traditional office space here).

It's not that hard. And too bad for the commercial market. They were headed this direction anyway - COVID just accelerated it by 20 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because we are human and need social interaction, facial expressions, and time to communicate outside of discrete work tasks to feel good about ourselves and be productive. People need to see and hear each other to informally learn from each other. We know that being together in person reduces cortisol and stress levels. Being isolated associated with higher levels of disease.

+100

WFH only leads to silos.

If you let it.