HYPSM/Elite School Alums - What has been the downside of your degree?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The downsides: (1) It is difficult to buck the trend of going into law, consulting, etc. I went to law school after graduating from an HYP and absolutely hated it. I wish I'd been more open to other career paths -- teaching high school, pursuing graphic arts, starting my own business, becoming a physician assistant -- but almost NO ONE does that from HYP (at least they didn't when I was there). You have to be brave to be yourself. I'd imagine you'd find a more diverse group of friends and more career pathways at a different kind of university. (2) I'd like to think that college is an opportunity to try some new things and learn some new skills. You want to be on the school newspaper? Well, everyone on the newspaper at Yale was the editor-in-chief of their high school newspaper and probably won national awards. Want to try theater? You'll be up against kids who already have their Actors Equity cards. My DD went to HYP (not the one I went to) and loved it, but she has more self-confidence in her little finger than I do in my entire body. So if you are supremely self-confident and self-assured, HYP might be for you. If not, you might have a better time being a bigger fish in a smaller pond. In retrospect, I think I would have enjoyed a more supportive environment much, much more, and I might have gotten further in my career as well, because I wouldn't have wasted a decade of my life in law school and practicing law.

This is a really interesting post. I encountered a variation of your (1) when I went to law school. The entire system was set up, quite formally, to get students into BigLaw (with a clerkship first, if that was of interest), and there was little support if you tried the summer associate route and hated it or thought you might be interested in a public service job. I’m sure that’s changed some in the 25+ years since I graduated, but it sure was restricting back then.

Your second point has some implications for the athletic recruiting debates that are common here. The athletes at HYPSM I know, including those from non-legacy backgrounds, are more likely to feel confident in their college experience and take advantage of their new networks than the average student.

[Anonymous]

The biggest drawback I found is that you actually have fewer acceptable career paths than if you went to a more conventional big state school. You will be significantly discouraged from going into, for example, nursing, HR, physical therapy, most government jobs, etc. The general assumption is that you will want to go into prestige jobs or academia. Otherwise you will be perceived by peers as having thrown away your degree and by your new colleagues as thinking you are better than them.

I was actively discouraged from going into k-12 teaching at my elite SLAC. It took me about a decade to get back to that path I had originally wanted.

[Anonymous]

Cautionary tale: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1093901.page

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:HYP grad here. I almost always reject HYP grads when they apply to my company - we tend to hire 1-3 years out of undergrad and that cadre from HYP tend to expect much higher comp and more comp increases along the way. In short, they are more of an HR pain in the arse.

Our best hires always are the striving kids, top 10-20% of their classes from T60-T300 schools.

Yes I realize the irony of this....entirely

So you discriminate. Nice.

College name is not a protected class.

Sure, I'm not talking legally--more on an ethical basis. You've got a lot of biases in my opinion--I think it's better to treat people as individuals and judge them on their own merits not my own personal biased history.

Who said this person chucked the application before interviewing them and discovering they were not a good fit? They said that almost all HYP applicants get rejected - not that they were never considered.

They said it was on the basis that they think they would be an "HR pain in the ass" which is not knowable from an interview. You don't even know comp requests unless you offer the position. So they are likely basing in on bias.

Have you interviewed people? There are absolutely people you can tell right off that have expectations that are out of line with a starting position. This is common among entitled applicants - millennials as a generation are notorious for this (even non-HYPSM).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Female HYP alum - I've been in dating situations where some men are intimidated by the credential.

This happens also for any PHd candidate female while in school but hanging out in public (outside of school)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you try to get a low-level job you’ll be seen as a flight risk

If you’re in certain environments you’ll be seen as an out of touch elite

+1. And there is also the fact that you drink a lot of cool aid at school and then need to go out in the real world and prove yourself…and that’s usually when you realize that many people don’t care where you went to school or think you’re wealthy/connected/an elitist. The latter is particularly unfair if you grew up LMC/MC and got in on your own merits.

Couldn't agree more with the bolded. I have worked with, hired, interacted with a fair number of HYPS grads over the years. The following two alums, both white women, really challenged and changed how I judge these graduates:

The first one was a Princeton grad. She came from a low income family, her mom was an alcoholic. Apparently, they were often evicted during her childhood and even spent periods living in her mom's car when relatives couldn't take them in.

The second one was a Yale grad from a low income, immigrant family. Kid excelled in high school while working to support the family. Kid got a full ride, but continued to work throughout college to send money home to her parents. She even worked the Yale reunions, which involved cleaning rooms. She told me once that she knew since she was a child that she'd be responsible for supporting her family financially.

Both of these women were bright, driven, hard-working AND humble. They had zero issues with starting from the bottom and working their way up, showed no entitlement, were willing time and time again to do the grunt work.

I grew up MC and attended a top SLAC, and that was still a challenge and a climb for me. But it feels like these two women had to go through a minefield to get to Yale and Princeton. That's why, even though I have met my share of entitled HYPS alums, I judge each one on their own merit and try to put biases aside because at the end of day you don't know who is sitting in front of you - yes, it could be a Princeton double legacy from a wealthy family, or it could be Yale first gen, low income grad who will use this job not only to support herself but also her family.

[Anonymous]

I am a female Yale grad. Overall, the downsides are pretty minimal and I met my amazing husband at Yale, so I have no regrets. I do feel like I ended up in grad school and getting a PHD because that was the expected route and so many of my friends were getting a PHD. I think if I had gone to a different school, I might have felt that there were more paths open to me. I sometimes imagine a different me who relaxed more when I was younger and because a preschool teacher (which I would have loved and been really good at). But, I have way more financial and personal security as a college professor married to a Big Law partner than I would as a preschool teacher. Coming from a MC background, I don’t underestimate the benefits of my choices. I do hope that my kids, who have a much bigger safety net than I did, will be a little more free with their choices and pursue something that they really love.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:HYP alum here - attending one of these schools can put a target on your back.

At one of the places I worked, if I ever made a mistake one of my co-workers would make comments such as "How come you didn't know that, you went to HYP!" or "You guys are not so smart after all, are you?!" He'd take any opportunity he could get to take me down a notch.

It was a very irritating, unhelpful work dynamic at the time.

+1

I didn’t go for undergrad, but did go to med school at a HY (not P - no med school there!), and then did residency and fellowship at Hopkins.

I work in a well-known but not tip-top hospital now. Every single time I make a mistake - or even just misspeak - one of the guys (who are mostly international medical grads and it’s only the men) makes a snide comment about my “pedigree.” It’s exhausting. I wish I’d gone to a state med school, but then again the training I got at the “fancy” places was really top-notch. But I don’t put my diplomas up in my office because I just don’t want to feed the snark.

[Anonymous]

Not one negative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At these super elite schools I think it’s more about the personalities of each kid who attends. I had two very smart nephews who went to Harvard and Duke for their undergrad. But personality-wise they were quite different - the one who went to Harvard struggled to adjust there and while he hasn’t had a bad career by any means, it seems like he’s holding back on his own potential. My nephew who went to Duke however, was better at adjusting to the rigor and expectations that came with being a Duke student and graduate, and is now extremely successful for his age (and any age for that matter). Unfortunately it’s very hard to predict how any kid will do in an elite school environment.

Best comment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you’re a URM it’s a downside because people assume you didn’t get in on your own merits.

I don’t assume this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HYP alum here - attending one of these schools can put a target on your back.

At one of the places I worked, if I ever made a mistake one of my co-workers would make comments such as "How come you didn't know that, you went to HYP!" or "You guys are not so smart after all, are you?!" He'd take any opportunity he could get to take me down a notch.

It was a very irritating, unhelpful work dynamic at the time.

+1

I didn’t go for undergrad, but did go to med school at a HY (not P - no med school there!), and then did residency and fellowship at Hopkins.

I work in a well-known but not tip-top hospital now. Every single time I make a mistake - or even just misspeak - one of the guys (who are mostly international medical grads and it’s only the men) makes a snide comment about my “pedigree.” It’s exhausting. I wish I’d gone to a state med school, but then again the training I got at the “fancy” places was really top-notch. But I don’t put my diplomas up in my office because I just don’t want to feed the snark.

If you think this is bad, imagine being one of those commenters and having to carry around such a giant chip on your shoulder all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HYP grad here. I almost always reject HYP grads when they apply to my company - we tend to hire 1-3 years out of undergrad and that cadre from HYP tend to expect much higher comp and more comp increases along the way. In short, they are more of an HR pain in the arse.

Our best hires always are the striving kids, top 10-20% of their classes from T60-T300 schools.

Yes I realize the irony of this....entirely

So you discriminate. Nice.

College name is not a protected class.

Sure, I'm not talking legally--more on an ethical basis. You've got a lot of biases in my opinion--I think it's better to treat people as individuals and judge them on their own merits not my own personal biased history.

Who said this person chucked the application before interviewing them and discovering they were not a good fit? They said that almost all HYP applicants get rejected - not that they were never considered.

They said it was on the basis that they think they would be an "HR pain in the ass" which is not knowable from an interview. You don't even know comp requests unless you offer the position. So they are likely basing in on bias.

Have you interviewed people? There are absolutely people you can tell right off that have expectations that are out of line with a starting position. This is common among entitled applicants - millennials as a generation are notorious for this (even non-HYPSM).

Yes, I have. But I also think OP is operating with a huge bias that gives them that "feeling."

[Anonymous]

I had a good time and education but the schools are also extremely different today from 20 years ago, even if 20 years doesn't seem like that long.

No real downsides but the degrees also don't help you as much as you might think. Only in select areas are they door openers.

[Anonymous]

I graduated cum laude from Yale and worked in management consulting for a short time after graduating. But my kids probably think I’m a loser stay at home mom now. I hear them say “my mom went to Yale but she just stays at home now”.