WaPo: Suicidal students are pressured to withdraw from Yale

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot has changed in the last three years. Their policies need to be reviewed, because we are no longer dealing with isolated incidents anymore. I'm the PP who said it wasn't Yale's responsibility to deal with mental illness. I still believe that, but in retrospect, none of us can behave as if it's pre-COVID. It's not. These kids have been through a lot. I think more support so they don't get to the point of taking their lives should be mandatory.

This has nothing to do with Covid.

There is no way to know that. By all accounts, the pandemic has greatly increased mental health problems in young adults, including those on college campuses everywhere. Do you not read?

Actually that's not what studies have shown and things have been back to normal for several years so stop using covid as an excuse for mental health issues. Those students had mental health issues and should never have gone away to school without a therapist/psychiatrist and care plan in place. Suicides are actually down per the actual numbers, not up.

Several years? What are you talking about? I feel like Rip Van Winkle. Please set me straight -- when I went to bed, the pandemic hadn't even started several years ago. How many years have passed since I went to sleep?

Everything has been back to normal except for a select few of us who are still careful.

COVID wasn't even an issue several years ago. How could things "be back to normal for several years"?? That makes zero sense. Several years ago COVID was a common cold.

How are things different for you as of today? Are you traveling? Seeing friends and family? Shopping in stores? Working in an office? Eating at restaurants indoors?

Yes, but not for several years now. For a year. Several years ago there was no such thing as the pandemic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://wapo.st/3O1cOnB

I gifted this article so those without a subscription can read it. I found this article to be sobering and was honestly shocked that Yale treats students with mental health issues as pariahs.

Well that makes perfect sense. If you are that mentally fragile you probably can’t handle the rigors of Yale. Why is this scandalous?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot has changed in the last three years. Their policies need to be reviewed, because we are no longer dealing with isolated incidents anymore. I'm the PP who said it wasn't Yale's responsibility to deal with mental illness. I still believe that, but in retrospect, none of us can behave as if it's pre-COVID. It's not. These kids have been through a lot. I think more support so they don't get to the point of taking their lives should be mandatory.

This has nothing to do with Covid.

There is no way to know that. By all accounts, the pandemic has greatly increased mental health problems in young adults, including those on college campuses everywhere. Do you not read?

Actually that's not what studies have shown and things have been back to normal for several years so stop using covid as an excuse for mental health issues. Those students had mental health issues and should never have gone away to school without a therapist/psychiatrist and care plan in place. Suicides are actually down per the actual numbers, not up.

Several years? What are you talking about? I feel like Rip Van Winkle. Please set me straight -- when I went to bed, the pandemic hadn't even started several years ago. How many years have passed since I went to sleep?

Everything has been back to normal except for a select few of us who are still careful.

COVID wasn't even an issue several years ago. How could things "be back to normal for several years"?? That makes zero sense. Several years ago COVID was a common cold.

How are things different for you as of today? Are you traveling? Seeing friends and family? Shopping in stores? Working in an office? Eating at restaurants indoors?

Yes, but not for several years now. For a year. Several years ago there was no such thing as the pandemic.

Then if everything is back to normal for you for a year, then stop complaining about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Read the article. The students are not being assured that their place will be waiting for them! It’s a horribly sad article and callous treatment of students by Yale.

It isn’t clear to me why they should have some assurance that their spot will be?

If they can’t hack it, they can’t hack it. There’s no shame in that.

[Anonymous]

Suicidal students are pressured to withdraw from Yale ~ that's ok with me.

They need help. Yale can't provide it. The student needs to get help where appropriate help is available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yale seems insensitive. However, they have a huge liability if the student stays. What if they have a complete breakdown and shoot up a classroom? Then you would all blame Yale.

If only there were options between expulsion and doing nothing.

They should call it a medical leave, should behave humanely, should have excellent care on campus and provide support for return if it’s possible but the fact is kids who have attempted suicide absolutely need a leave. I said this earlier but imagine if an employer had an employee attempt suicide in the workplace and the person came back after the weekend with no break and no further evaluation for ability to safely return-it would not be safe or appropriate for the employee and it would not be safe and fair to coworkers.

There’s no way an employer would prevent an employee from returning. That’s a lawsuit waiting to happen. The Yale situation was like firing an employee for a suicide attempt, which would be an unwinnable lawsuit for the employer.

What are you talking about? I know of someone who had to take a medical leave because they they blew a fuse in a meeting, someone who came back from lunch drunk multiple times, and another who was manic.

Those are very different from a suicide attempt. You could fire someone for inappropriate work conduct, like showing up drunk. You can’t fire someone for a suicide attempt.

I’m not sure what the situation was around the mania, but an employer would want to tread carefully there unless there was some reason to think she was a danger to others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Suicidal students are pressured to withdraw from Yale ~ that's ok with me.

They need help. Yale can't provide it. The student needs to get help where appropriate help is available.

Agree entirely. If they are that fragile, they probably don’t belong there on the first place and it’s not like there is some magic solution that will change things.

This is OK. It’s reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid at Yale (2nd year) and this has been a huge topic of discussion and advocacy in the last few years, especially since the heartbreaking student suicide in 2021. Their policies around this are unacceptable, and I’m glad this article was published in the WaPo as I think and hope it will increase pressure on the university to change. I didn’t go there, but my dd’s experience so far actually been that in so many other regards the campus environment is actually very supportive, both in the supports set up within the residential college system, access to professors, collaborative environment among students etc. I would say without hesitation that this environment is way more supportive and less toxic than my own university experience.
There’s a lot of Yale hate in this post, I’m not sure why. The kids I’ve met there are interesting, motivated, often a bit quirky, lots of passion etc. And generally they are really really happy with their experience there. But everyone who is paying attention agrees that the changes in the last few years did not go far enough in supporting students in crisis.
How universities handle the dramatic increase in the need for mental health services is a tricky topic. I don’t fault universities for buckling under the dramatic increase in demand for services, and we are seeing that play out in non-university settings as well. Therapists waitlists are long. I also don’t expect a university to “care about” my kid, that’s not what institutions do, that’s what people do. But neither to I expect institutional policies to exacerbate crisis, and clearly the remnants of Yale’s reinstatement policies in place there do that. I presume this to be strictly a liability thing, but as other universities have changed their policies on this one, Yale can clearly do the same.

Thanks for posting this. Yale is my DD's #! choice and I am seriously considering encouraging her not to apply. It's a reach for her (as it is for most) but this article made me afraid of the possibility she'd be admitted. She has had mild mental health issues and ADHD. She does really well academically and with ECs but she gets anxious and I don't want her in a pressure cooker environment, especially one that she'll get kicked out of if things deteriorate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yale seems insensitive. However, they have a huge liability if the student stays. What if they have a complete breakdown and shoot up a classroom? Then you would all blame Yale.

If only there were options between expulsion and doing nothing.

They should call it a medical leave, should behave humanely, should have excellent care on campus and provide support for return if it’s possible but the fact is kids who have attempted suicide absolutely need a leave. I said this earlier but imagine if an employer had an employee attempt suicide in the workplace and the person came back after the weekend with no break and no further evaluation for ability to safely return-it would not be safe or appropriate for the employee and it would not be safe and fair to coworkers.

There’s no way an employer would prevent an employee from returning. That’s a lawsuit waiting to happen. The Yale situation was like firing an employee for a suicide attempt, which would be an unwinnable lawsuit for the employer.

Yale actually handled it well by hospitalizing her and recognizing the problem. The parents didn't. This is not an employer situation and two very different issues.

Yale didn’t hospitalize her. They were informed after the attempt, and then all they did was pressure her to leave voluntarily so that they didn’t need to refund her tuition over an involuntary (and probably illegal) expulsion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yale seems insensitive. However, they have a huge liability if the student stays. What if they have a complete breakdown and shoot up a classroom? Then you would all blame Yale.

If only there were options between expulsion and doing nothing.

They should call it a medical leave, should behave humanely, should have excellent care on campus and provide support for return if it’s possible but the fact is kids who have attempted suicide absolutely need a leave. I said this earlier but imagine if an employer had an employee attempt suicide in the workplace and the person came back after the weekend with no break and no further evaluation for ability to safely return-it would not be safe or appropriate for the employee and it would not be safe and fair to coworkers.

There’s no way an employer would prevent an employee from returning. That’s a lawsuit waiting to happen. The Yale situation was like firing an employee for a suicide attempt, which would be an unwinnable lawsuit for the employer.

What are you talking about? I know of someone who had to take a medical leave because they they blew a fuse in a meeting, someone who came back from lunch drunk multiple times, and another who was manic.

Those are very different from a suicide attempt. You could fire someone for inappropriate work conduct, like showing up drunk. You can’t fire someone for a suicide attempt.

I’m not sure what the situation was around the mania, but an employer would want to tread carefully there unless there was some reason to think she was a danger to others.

They weren’t fired. They were required to get appropriate medical treatment before returning which they needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yale seems insensitive. However, they have a huge liability if the student stays. What if they have a complete breakdown and shoot up a classroom? Then you would all blame Yale.

If only there were options between expulsion and doing nothing.

They should call it a medical leave, should behave humanely, should have excellent care on campus and provide support for return if it’s possible but the fact is kids who have attempted suicide absolutely need a leave. I said this earlier but imagine if an employer had an employee attempt suicide in the workplace and the person came back after the weekend with no break and no further evaluation for ability to safely return-it would not be safe or appropriate for the employee and it would not be safe and fair to coworkers.

There’s no way an employer would prevent an employee from returning. That’s a lawsuit waiting to happen. The Yale situation was like firing an employee for a suicide attempt, which would be an unwinnable lawsuit for the employer.

What are you talking about? I know of someone who had to take a medical leave because they they blew a fuse in a meeting, someone who came back from lunch drunk multiple times, and another who was manic.

Those are very different from a suicide attempt. You could fire someone for inappropriate work conduct, like showing up drunk. You can’t fire someone for a suicide attempt.

I’m not sure what the situation was around the mania, but an employer would want to tread carefully there unless there was some reason to think she was a danger to others.

They weren’t fired. They were required to get appropriate medical treatment before returning which they needed.

Read it again. They made her unenroll, having to reapply to get back in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yale seems insensitive. However, they have a huge liability if the student stays. What if they have a complete breakdown and shoot up a classroom? Then you would all blame Yale.

If only there were options between expulsion and doing nothing.

They should call it a medical leave, should behave humanely, should have excellent care on campus and provide support for return if it’s possible but the fact is kids who have attempted suicide absolutely need a leave. I said this earlier but imagine if an employer had an employee attempt suicide in the workplace and the person came back after the weekend with no break and no further evaluation for ability to safely return-it would not be safe or appropriate for the employee and it would not be safe and fair to coworkers.

There’s no way an employer would prevent an employee from returning. That’s a lawsuit waiting to happen. The Yale situation was like firing an employee for a suicide attempt, which would be an unwinnable lawsuit for the employer.

What are you talking about? I know of someone who had to take a medical leave because they they blew a fuse in a meeting, someone who came back from lunch drunk multiple times, and another who was manic.

Those are very different from a suicide attempt. You could fire someone for inappropriate work conduct, like showing up drunk. You can’t fire someone for a suicide attempt.

I’m not sure what the situation was around the mania, but an employer would want to tread carefully there unless there was some reason to think she was a danger to others.

They weren’t fired. They were required to get appropriate medical treatment before returning which they needed.

Read it again. They made her unenroll, having to reapply to get back in.

Which is entirely appropriate.

She attempted SUICIDE. That’s bonkers. She can’t hack it. Cut her loose. She probably doesn’t belong there.

This isn’t someone with a disability like being deaf who needs an accommodation like an interpreter. This is an insane person with a fundamental defect. Yes they deserve compassion but it’s not like they are owed a second chance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid at Yale (2nd year) and this has been a huge topic of discussion and advocacy in the last few years, especially since the heartbreaking student suicide in 2021. Their policies around this are unacceptable, and I’m glad this article was published in the WaPo as I think and hope it will increase pressure on the university to change. I didn’t go there, but my dd’s experience so far actually been that in so many other regards the campus environment is actually very supportive, both in the supports set up within the residential college system, access to professors, collaborative environment among students etc. I would say without hesitation that this environment is way more supportive and less toxic than my own university experience.
There’s a lot of Yale hate in this post, I’m not sure why. The kids I’ve met there are interesting, motivated, often a bit quirky, lots of passion etc. And generally they are really really happy with their experience there. But everyone who is paying attention agrees that the changes in the last few years did not go far enough in supporting students in crisis.
How universities handle the dramatic increase in the need for mental health services is a tricky topic. I don’t fault universities for buckling under the dramatic increase in demand for services, and we are seeing that play out in non-university settings as well. Therapists waitlists are long. I also don’t expect a university to “care about” my kid, that’s not what institutions do, that’s what people do. But neither to I expect institutional policies to exacerbate crisis, and clearly the remnants of Yale’s reinstatement policies in place there do that. I presume this to be strictly a liability thing, but as other universities have changed their policies on this one, Yale can clearly do the same.

Thanks for posting this. Yale is my DD's #! choice and I am seriously considering encouraging her not to apply. It's a reach for her (as it is for most) but this article made me afraid of the possibility she'd be admitted. She has had mild mental health issues and ADHD. She does really well academically and with ECs but she gets anxious and I don't want her in a pressure cooker environment, especially one that she'll get kicked out of if things deteriorate.

Yale is not the place for her if this is what you are looking for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yale seems insensitive. However, they have a huge liability if the student stays. What if they have a complete breakdown and shoot up a classroom? Then you would all blame Yale.

If only there were options between expulsion and doing nothing.

They should call it a medical leave, should behave humanely, should have excellent care on campus and provide support for return if it’s possible but the fact is kids who have attempted suicide absolutely need a leave. I said this earlier but imagine if an employer had an employee attempt suicide in the workplace and the person came back after the weekend with no break and no further evaluation for ability to safely return-it would not be safe or appropriate for the employee and it would not be safe and fair to coworkers.

There’s no way an employer would prevent an employee from returning. That’s a lawsuit waiting to happen. The Yale situation was like firing an employee for a suicide attempt, which would be an unwinnable lawsuit for the employer.

What are you talking about? I know of someone who had to take a medical leave because they they blew a fuse in a meeting, someone who came back from lunch drunk multiple times, and another who was manic.

Those are very different from a suicide attempt. You could fire someone for inappropriate work conduct, like showing up drunk. You can’t fire someone for a suicide attempt.

I’m not sure what the situation was around the mania, but an employer would want to tread carefully there unless there was some reason to think she was a danger to others.

They weren’t fired. They were required to get appropriate medical treatment before returning which they needed.

Read it again. They made her unenroll, having to reapply to get back in.

Which is entirely appropriate.

She attempted SUICIDE. That’s bonkers. She can’t hack it. Cut her loose. She probably doesn’t belong there.

This isn’t someone with a disability like being deaf who needs an accommodation like an interpreter. This is an insane person with a fundamental defect. Yes they deserve compassion but it’s not like they are owed a second chance.

Read this, and ask why any caring parent would let their kids step foot on that campus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yale seems insensitive. However, they have a huge liability if the student stays. What if they have a complete breakdown and shoot up a classroom? Then you would all blame Yale.

If only there were options between expulsion and doing nothing.

They should call it a medical leave, should behave humanely, should have excellent care on campus and provide support for return if it’s possible but the fact is kids who have attempted suicide absolutely need a leave. I said this earlier but imagine if an employer had an employee attempt suicide in the workplace and the person came back after the weekend with no break and no further evaluation for ability to safely return-it would not be safe or appropriate for the employee and it would not be safe and fair to coworkers.

There’s no way an employer would prevent an employee from returning. That’s a lawsuit waiting to happen. The Yale situation was like firing an employee for a suicide attempt, which would be an unwinnable lawsuit for the employer.

What are you talking about? I know of someone who had to take a medical leave because they they blew a fuse in a meeting, someone who came back from lunch drunk multiple times, and another who was manic.

Those are very different from a suicide attempt. You could fire someone for inappropriate work conduct, like showing up drunk. You can’t fire someone for a suicide attempt.

I’m not sure what the situation was around the mania, but an employer would want to tread carefully there unless there was some reason to think she was a danger to others.

They weren’t fired. They were required to get appropriate medical treatment before returning which they needed.

Read it again. They made her unenroll, having to reapply to get back in.

Which is entirely appropriate.

She attempted SUICIDE. That’s bonkers. She can’t hack it. Cut her loose. She probably doesn’t belong there.

This isn’t someone with a disability like being deaf who needs an accommodation like an interpreter. This is an insane person with a fundamental defect. Yes they deserve compassion but it’s not like they are owed a second chance.

Well, luckily the law doesn’t treat mental health issues as “fundamental defects” of “insane people."