The Top 50 National Universities by Average Rank from the 8 Most Influential Rankings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know so many holes in the top 50 this way--too many credence to fringe publications. Suggest the tier approach is the best:

1A) MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Harvard, Yale
1B) Penn, Caltech, Columbia, Northwestern, Duke

2A) Vanderbilt, Rice, Dartmouth, Brown, UChicago, Cornell, Williams, Amherst, Pomona
2B) UMich, Johns Hopkins, WashU, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Berkeley, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna

3A) UVA, UNC, CMU, UF, Emory, USC, Georgia Tech, Wellesley, Barnard, Carleton, Middlebury
3B) UCSD, BC, UT Austin, W&M, UIUC, W&L, Vassar, Davidson, Hamilton, Haverford

+1 although it's hard for me to put Northwestern ahead of schools like Dartmouth and UChicago. I can see Penn, Caltech, Columbia, and Duke being 1B because they all have claims at being the best school after HYPSM. I'd even argue several of them are better than Yale nowadays. But I don't think Northwestern has that claim. Plus Northwestern gets demolished in the cross-admit battle between Penn, Caltech, Columbia, and Duke.

If you are a VA resident, UVA is SOOOO much harder to get into than UMich.

[Anonymous]

US News, WSJ/THE, Niche, Forbes, Washington Monthly, Money, Wallet Hub, and Degree Choices, you get an overall ranking of:

I would only include US News and give it a 40 percent weight. 20 Percent Niche 20 percent Forbes 20 percent WSJ. I did this when my kids applied.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick question if somebody had a choice of Pomona or Cornell which is more prestigious? Being an East Coast Snob, I would say Cornell. And Ivy is Ivy. That being said for those that know Pomona, know how hard it is to get into. Friend mine said there is always 1 or 2 kids at Harvard Law from Pomona every year. But then again probably at least 10 from Cornell. Hypothetical.

I think it really depends on someone's goals. Pomona is a top-tier LAC in a fantastic and warm location that will provide a very intimate college experience. Cornell is large, cold, and can be quite impersonal. However it has a big brand behind it along with being in the ivy league, and its campus is beautiful if one can withstand the snow. It depends how much an individual really cares about having a more "popular" brand that will be recognized more often. For fields like academia, nonprofit work, law, and consulting, Pomona should hold up fine, but for more accessible fields and tech, the Cornell name might help. But Pomona certainly won't hold anyone back, it just doesn't have as much lay prestige.

And note Pomona and Cornell are in the same tier in the tier rankings. And usually around each other in surveys that rank SLACs and Nat Univs together.

Are you the one who created the tiers above? If so, how did you come to those tiers?

+1 people making their own "lists" based on what, exactly?

I think it's fair but I think people should put disclaimers as to what they're looking at in their tiers. As someone with more interest in STEM, I'd go:

1A) MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Harvard, Caltech
1B) Duke, Yale, Penn, Columbia

2A) Vanderbilt, Rice, Northwestern, Dartmouth, Brown, UChicago, Cornell, Johns Hopkins, CMU, Berkeley, Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Olin
2B) UMich, WashU, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Georgia Tech, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna

3A) UVA, UNC, UF, Emory, USC, UT Austin, Wellesley, Barnard, Carleton, Middlebury
3B) UCSD, BC, W&M, UIUC, W&L, Vassar, Davidson, Hamilton, Haverford

That actually is a very good list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:US News, WSJ/THE, Niche, Forbes, Washington Monthly, Money, Wallet Hub, and Degree Choices, you get an overall ranking of:

I would only include US News and give it a 40 percent weight. 20 Percent Niche 20 percent Forbes 20 percent WSJ. I did this when my kids applied.

Why did you do that for your kids? So arbitrary. My favorite ranking is WSJ so I'm going to give it 40%. For your kids shouldn't you go off the methodology/criteria that matters the most for you? If your reasoning for giving US News 40% is that it's the most popular, that just becomes an echo chamber. At least OP included some interesting rankings that calculate different things than the usual suspects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know so many holes in the top 50 this way--too many credence to fringe publications. Suggest the tier approach is the best:

1A) MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Harvard, Yale
1B) Penn, Caltech, Columbia, Northwestern, Duke

2A) Vanderbilt, Rice, Dartmouth, Brown, UChicago, Cornell, Williams, Amherst, Pomona
2B) UMich, Johns Hopkins, WashU, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Berkeley, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna

3A) UVA, UNC, CMU, UF, Emory, USC, Georgia Tech, Wellesley, Barnard, Carleton, Middlebury
3B) UCSD, BC, UT Austin, W&M, UIUC, W&L, Vassar, Davidson, Hamilton, Haverford

+1 although it's hard for me to put Northwestern ahead of schools like Dartmouth and UChicago. I can see Penn, Caltech, Columbia, and Duke being 1B because they all have claims at being the best school after HYPSM. I'd even argue several of them are better than Yale nowadays. But I don't think Northwestern has that claim. Plus Northwestern gets demolished in the cross-admit battle between Penn, Caltech, Columbia, and Duke.

If you are a VA resident, UVA is SOOOO much harder to get into than UMich.

Are you saying UVA is harder to get into in-state than UMich is out-of-state? That is just not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick question if somebody had a choice of Pomona or Cornell which is more prestigious? Being an East Coast Snob, I would say Cornell. And Ivy is Ivy. That being said for those that know Pomona, know how hard it is to get into. Friend mine said there is always 1 or 2 kids at Harvard Law from Pomona every year. But then again probably at least 10 from Cornell. Hypothetical.

I think it really depends on someone's goals. Pomona is a top-tier LAC in a fantastic and warm location that will provide a very intimate college experience. Cornell is large, cold, and can be quite impersonal. However it has a big brand behind it along with being in the ivy league, and its campus is beautiful if one can withstand the snow. It depends how much an individual really cares about having a more "popular" brand that will be recognized more often. For fields like academia, nonprofit work, law, and consulting, Pomona should hold up fine, but for more accessible fields and tech, the Cornell name might help. But Pomona certainly won't hold anyone back, it just doesn't have as much lay prestige.

And note Pomona and Cornell are in the same tier in the tier rankings. And usually around each other in surveys that rank SLACs and Nat Univs together.

Are you the one who created the tiers above? If so, how did you come to those tiers?

+1 people making their own "lists" based on what, exactly?

I think it's fair but I think people should put disclaimers as to what they're looking at in their tiers. As someone with more interest in STEM, I'd go:

1A) MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Harvard, Caltech
1B) Duke, Yale, Penn, Columbia

2A) Vanderbilt, Rice, Northwestern, Dartmouth, Brown, UChicago, Cornell, Johns Hopkins, CMU, Berkeley, Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Olin
2B) UMich, WashU, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Georgia Tech, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna

3A) UVA, UNC, UF, Emory, USC, UT Austin, Wellesley, Barnard, Carleton, Middlebury
3B) UCSD, BC, W&M, UIUC, W&L, Vassar, Davidson, Hamilton, Haverford

+1 Yale does not have the same place in higher education that it used to thanks to the increasing importance of STEM. I imagine more kids starting to put Caltech posters on their walls compared to Yale posters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick question if somebody had a choice of Pomona or Cornell which is more prestigious? Being an East Coast Snob, I would say Cornell. And Ivy is Ivy. That being said for those that know Pomona, know how hard it is to get into. Friend mine said there is always 1 or 2 kids at Harvard Law from Pomona every year. But then again probably at least 10 from Cornell. Hypothetical.

I think it really depends on someone's goals. Pomona is a top-tier LAC in a fantastic and warm location that will provide a very intimate college experience. Cornell is large, cold, and can be quite impersonal. However it has a big brand behind it along with being in the ivy league, and its campus is beautiful if one can withstand the snow. It depends how much an individual really cares about having a more "popular" brand that will be recognized more often. For fields like academia, nonprofit work, law, and consulting, Pomona should hold up fine, but for more accessible fields and tech, the Cornell name might help. But Pomona certainly won't hold anyone back, it just doesn't have as much lay prestige.

And note Pomona and Cornell are in the same tier in the tier rankings. And usually around each other in surveys that rank SLACs and Nat Univs together.

Are you the one who created the tiers above? If so, how did you come to those tiers?

+1 people making their own "lists" based on what, exactly?

I think it's fair but I think people should put disclaimers as to what they're looking at in their tiers. As someone with more interest in STEM, I'd go:

1A) MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Harvard, Caltech
1B) Duke, Yale, Penn, Columbia

2A) Vanderbilt, Rice, Northwestern, Dartmouth, Brown, UChicago, Cornell, Johns Hopkins, CMU, Berkeley, Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Olin
2B) UMich, WashU, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Georgia Tech, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna

3A) UVA, UNC, UF, Emory, USC, UT Austin, Wellesley, Barnard, Carleton, Middlebury
3B) UCSD, BC, W&M, UIUC, W&L, Vassar, Davidson, Hamilton, Haverford

+1 Yale does not have the same place in higher education that it used to thanks to the increasing importance of STEM. I imagine more kids starting to put Caltech posters on their walls compared to Yale posters.

Maybe, but Yale and Caltech target different students. Many of the US's elite and rich kids will still dream of Yale, whereas Caltech is more of a pipe dream for your super smart technical kid from the suburbs. If you want to be a politician it's hard to find a better choice than Yale, and if you want to be an astronaut it's hard to find a better choice than Caltech. Plus Yale is still the cream of the crop for humanities. But I agree with the tiers, I certainly think Caltech is more "important" of an institution than Yale, and that it's harder to get into than Yale. Duke, Penn, and Columbia are good peers for Yale as we continue our next technological revolution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Too undergrad focused. JHU is way too low, for example. JHU gets the most govt funding out of any school in the country and has more Nobel prize winners than a lot of schools ranked higher. A university is more than just about undergrads. Hopkins has 29 Nobel prize winners while Duke only has 2, for example.

For what it's worth, Duke definitely has more than 2 Nobel prize winners, not sure where you get that number.

It was a typo - meant 12 as far as I know. JHU still has 2x that.

I imagine most of those Nobel prizes are from JHU medical school. Hardly has an effect on college which is what we're discussing.

Many JHU undergrads do research a JHU medical school. It's also why JHU undergrads have huge success applying to med school - because the school has so much research opportunities available with so much federal money coming in for research. Besides, nearly all of the rankings are based on prestige. Prestige comes from graduate programs and research, not undergrad programs. Where are all of the universities on this list who only offer bachelors or masters? No where to be found, because obviously PhDs matter the most for these rankings, which means actual research, publications, and patents.

There are several rankings that include undergrad only schools like LACs. Forbes, Niche, and Money come to mind. I bolded the LACs in the top 25. In particular Williams seems to do pretty well even against ivies, Stanford, Duke, and MIT.

Forbes:

1. MIT
2. Stanford
2. Berkeley
4. Princeton
5. Columbia
6. UCLA
7. Williams
8. Yale
9. Duke
10. Penn
11. Northwestern
12. Rice
13. Vanderbilt
14. Dartmouth
15. Harvard
16. Cornell
17. UCSD
18. Johns Hopkins
19. Brown
20. UChicago
21. USC
22. Georgetown
23. UCSD
24. Amherst
25. UMich

Niche

1. MIT
2. Stanford
3. Harvard
4. Yale
5. Princeton
6. Rice
7. Caltech
8. Duke
9. Brown
10. Dartmouth
11. Penn
12. Columbia
13. Vanderbilt
14. Northwestern
15. WashU
16. UChicago
17. Georgetown
18. Harvey Mudd
19. Notre Dame
20. Pomona
21. Johns Hopkins
22. Carnegie Mellon
23. Cornell
24. UCLA
25. UMich

Money

1. MIT
2. Princeton
3. Stanford
4. Yale
5. Williams
6. UMich
7. Harvard
8. UNC
9. UVA
10. Duke
11. Penn
12. UCLA
13. Georgetown
14. Northwestern
15. Notre Dame
16. Georgia Tech
17. UIUC
18. Pomona
19. Berkeley
20. Dartmouth
21. Cornell
22. UF
23. UCI
24. UCD
25. Rice

If anything this shows that LACs do poorly compared to national universities when they are compared head-on. The only LAC holding its own is Williams, and on Niche it's way down the list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know so many holes in the top 50 this way--too many credence to fringe publications. Suggest the tier approach is the best:

1A) MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Harvard, Yale
1B) Penn, Caltech, Columbia, Northwestern, Duke

2A) Vanderbilt, Rice, Dartmouth, Brown, UChicago, Cornell, Williams, Amherst, Pomona
2B) UMich, Johns Hopkins, WashU, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Berkeley, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna

3A) UVA, UNC, CMU, UF, Emory, USC, Georgia Tech, Wellesley, Barnard, Carleton, Middlebury
3B) UCSD, BC, UT Austin, W&M, UIUC, W&L, Vassar, Davidson, Hamilton, Haverford

+1 although it's hard for me to put Northwestern ahead of schools like Dartmouth and UChicago. I can see Penn, Caltech, Columbia, and Duke being 1B because they all have claims at being the best school after HYPSM. I'd even argue several of them are better than Yale nowadays. But I don't think Northwestern has that claim. Plus Northwestern gets demolished in the cross-admit battle between Penn, Caltech, Columbia, and Duke.

Wow I didn't realize Northwestern had that hard of a time with cross-admits, I thought Northwestern would be pretty even with those schools. Instead you have:

Northwestern 22% - Duke 78%
Northwestern 26% - Penn 74%
Northwestern 28% - Caltech 72%
Northwestern 31% - Columbia 69%

Wow what's crazy is that Northwestern and Duke have the same overall yield. This just shows Duke is losing so many students to Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, and MIT each year. What's worse is that Caltech actually has a lower overall yield than Northwestern but clearly it's more desirable - it must be primarily Stanford and MIT taking students from them as the other big STEM destinations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you take the average ranking from US News, WSJ/THE, Niche, Forbes, Washington Monthly, Money, Wallet Hub, and Degree Choices, you get an overall ranking of:

1. MIT
2. Stanford
3. Princeton
---Big Gap---
4. Harvard
5. Yale
6. Duke
7. Penn
---Big Gap---
8. Caltech
9. Northwestern
10. Columbia
11. Vanderbilt
12. UCLA
13. Berkeley
14. UMich
15. Dartmouth
16. Georgetown
17. Johns Hopkins
18. Cornell
19. Notre Dame
20. WashU (tie)
20. UChicago (tie)
22. UNC
23. UF (tie)
23. UVA (tie)
25. CMU
---Big Gap---
26. Georgia Tech
27. UCSD
28. USC
29. Emory
30. UIUC
31. UCD
32. UCI
33. UW Seattle
34. BC
35. Wake Forest
36. UT Austin
37. UW Madison
---Big Gap---
38. W&M
39. UCSB
40. Lehigh
41. Purdue
---Big Gap---
42. Texas A&M
43. UMD
44. Virginia Tech
45. BU
46. UGA
47. NYU
48. NCSU
49. BYU
50. GW

Some of these rankings are garbage rankings.
Garbage in Garbage out!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick question if somebody had a choice of Pomona or Cornell which is more prestigious? Being an East Coast Snob, I would say Cornell. And Ivy is Ivy. That being said for those that know Pomona, know how hard it is to get into. Friend mine said there is always 1 or 2 kids at Harvard Law from Pomona every year. But then again probably at least 10 from Cornell. Hypothetical.

I think it really depends on someone's goals. Pomona is a top-tier LAC in a fantastic and warm location that will provide a very intimate college experience. Cornell is large, cold, and can be quite impersonal. However it has a big brand behind it along with being in the ivy league, and its campus is beautiful if one can withstand the snow. It depends how much an individual really cares about having a more "popular" brand that will be recognized more often. For fields like academia, nonprofit work, law, and consulting, Pomona should hold up fine, but for more accessible fields and tech, the Cornell name might help. But Pomona certainly won't hold anyone back, it just doesn't have as much lay prestige.

And note Pomona and Cornell are in the same tier in the tier rankings. And usually around each other in surveys that rank SLACs and Nat Univs together.

Are you the one who created the tiers above? If so, how did you come to those tiers?

+1 people making their own "lists" based on what, exactly?

I think it's fair but I think people should put disclaimers as to what they're looking at in their tiers. As someone with more interest in STEM, I'd go:

1A) MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Harvard, Caltech
1B) Duke, Yale, Penn, Columbia

2A) Vanderbilt, Rice, Northwestern, Dartmouth, Brown, UChicago, Cornell, Johns Hopkins, CMU, Berkeley, Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Olin
2B) UMich, WashU, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Georgia Tech, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna

3A) UVA, UNC, UF, Emory, USC, UT Austin, Wellesley, Barnard, Carleton, Middlebury
3B) UCSD, BC, W&M, UIUC, W&L, Vassar, Davidson, Hamilton, Haverford

I'd go a step further and REMOVE and replace a number of schools...particularly in 3A and 3B. Not going to BC, W&L, Bsrnard, Hamilton and Haverford for the CS programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick question if somebody had a choice of Pomona or Cornell which is more prestigious? Being an East Coast Snob, I would say Cornell. And Ivy is Ivy. That being said for those that know Pomona, know how hard it is to get into. Friend mine said there is always 1 or 2 kids at Harvard Law from Pomona every year. But then again probably at least 10 from Cornell. Hypothetical.

I think it really depends on someone's goals. Pomona is a top-tier LAC in a fantastic and warm location that will provide a very intimate college experience. Cornell is large, cold, and can be quite impersonal. However it has a big brand behind it along with being in the ivy league, and its campus is beautiful if one can withstand the snow. It depends how much an individual really cares about having a more "popular" brand that will be recognized more often. For fields like academia, nonprofit work, law, and consulting, Pomona should hold up fine, but for more accessible fields and tech, the Cornell name might help. But Pomona certainly won't hold anyone back, it just doesn't have as much lay prestige.

And note Pomona and Cornell are in the same tier in the tier rankings. And usually around each other in surveys that rank SLACs and Nat Univs together.

Are you the one who created the tiers above? If so, how did you come to those tiers?

+1 people making their own "lists" based on what, exactly?

I think it's fair but I think people should put disclaimers as to what they're looking at in their tiers. As someone with more interest in STEM, I'd go:

1A) MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Harvard, Caltech
1B) Duke, Yale, Penn, Columbia

2A) Vanderbilt, Rice, Northwestern, Dartmouth, Brown, UChicago, Cornell, Johns Hopkins, CMU, Berkeley, Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Olin
2B) UMich, WashU, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Georgia Tech, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna

3A) UVA, UNC, UF, Emory, USC, UT Austin, Wellesley, Barnard, Carleton, Middlebury
3B) UCSD, BC, W&M, UIUC, W&L, Vassar, Davidson, Hamilton, Haverford

+1 Yale does not have the same place in higher education that it used to thanks to the increasing importance of STEM. I imagine more kids starting to put Caltech posters on their walls compared to Yale posters.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick question if somebody had a choice of Pomona or Cornell which is more prestigious? Being an East Coast Snob, I would say Cornell. And Ivy is Ivy. That being said for those that know Pomona, know how hard it is to get into. Friend mine said there is always 1 or 2 kids at Harvard Law from Pomona every year. But then again probably at least 10 from Cornell. Hypothetical.

I think it really depends on someone's goals. Pomona is a top-tier LAC in a fantastic and warm location that will provide a very intimate college experience. Cornell is large, cold, and can be quite impersonal. However it has a big brand behind it along with being in the ivy league, and its campus is beautiful if one can withstand the snow. It depends how much an individual really cares about having a more "popular" brand that will be recognized more often. For fields like academia, nonprofit work, law, and consulting, Pomona should hold up fine, but for more accessible fields and tech, the Cornell name might help. But Pomona certainly won't hold anyone back, it just doesn't have as much lay prestige.

And note Pomona and Cornell are in the same tier in the tier rankings. And usually around each other in surveys that rank SLACs and Nat Univs together.

Are you the one who created the tiers above? If so, how did you come to those tiers?

+1 people making their own "lists" based on what, exactly?

I think it's fair but I think people should put disclaimers as to what they're looking at in their tiers. As someone with more interest in STEM, I'd go:

1A) MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Harvard, Caltech
1B) Duke, Yale, Penn, Columbia

2A) Vanderbilt, Rice, Northwestern, Dartmouth, Brown, UChicago, Cornell, Johns Hopkins, CMU, Berkeley, Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Olin
2B) UMich, WashU, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Georgia Tech, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna

3A) UVA, UNC, UF, Emory, USC, UT Austin, Wellesley, Barnard, Carleton, Middlebury
3B) UCSD, BC, W&M, UIUC, W&L, Vassar, Davidson, Hamilton, Haverford

I'd go a step further and REMOVE and replace a number of schools...particularly in 3A and 3B. Not going to BC, W&L, Bsrnard, Hamilton and Haverford for the CS programs.

That's fair, also UIUC should be at least 3A, their STEM is great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know so many holes in the top 50 this way--too many credence to fringe publications. Suggest the tier approach is the best:

1A) MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Harvard, Yale
1B) Penn, Caltech, Columbia, Northwestern, Duke

2A) Vanderbilt, Rice, Dartmouth, Brown, UChicago, Cornell, Williams, Amherst, Pomona
2B) UMich, Johns Hopkins, WashU, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Berkeley, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna

3A) UVA, UNC, CMU, UF, Emory, USC, Georgia Tech, Wellesley, Barnard, Carleton, Middlebury
3B) UCSD, BC, UT Austin, W&M, UIUC, W&L, Vassar, Davidson, Hamilton, Haverford

+1 although it's hard for me to put Northwestern ahead of schools like Dartmouth and UChicago. I can see Penn, Caltech, Columbia, and Duke being 1B because they all have claims at being the best school after HYPSM. I'd even argue several of them are better than Yale nowadays. But I don't think Northwestern has that claim. Plus Northwestern gets demolished in the cross-admit battle between Penn, Caltech, Columbia, and Duke.

If you are a VA resident, UVA is SOOOO much harder to get into than UMich.

Do you have data to back this up? I doubt that's true. UMich has a strong claim at being the #1 public school in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know so many holes in the top 50 this way--too many credence to fringe publications. Suggest the tier approach is the best:

1A) MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Harvard, Yale
1B) Penn, Caltech, Columbia, Northwestern, Duke

2A) Vanderbilt, Rice, Dartmouth, Brown, UChicago, Cornell, Williams, Amherst, Pomona
2B) UMich, Johns Hopkins, WashU, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Berkeley, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna

3A) UVA, UNC, CMU, UF, Emory, USC, Georgia Tech, Wellesley, Barnard, Carleton, Middlebury
3B) UCSD, BC, UT Austin, W&M, UIUC, W&L, Vassar, Davidson, Hamilton, Haverford

+1 although it's hard for me to put Northwestern ahead of schools like Dartmouth and UChicago. I can see Penn, Caltech, Columbia, and Duke being 1B because they all have claims at being the best school after HYPSM. I'd even argue several of them are better than Yale nowadays. But I don't think Northwestern has that claim. Plus Northwestern gets demolished in the cross-admit battle between Penn, Caltech, Columbia, and Duke.

Wow I didn't realize Northwestern had that hard of a time with cross-admits, I thought Northwestern would be pretty even with those schools. Instead you have:

Northwestern 22% - Duke 78%
Northwestern 26% - Penn 74%
Northwestern 28% - Caltech 72%
Northwestern 31% - Columbia 69%

Wow what's crazy is that Northwestern and Duke have the same overall yield. This just shows Duke is losing so many students to Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, and MIT each year. What's worse is that Caltech actually has a lower overall yield than Northwestern but clearly it's more desirable - it must be primarily Stanford and MIT taking students from them as the other big STEM destinations.

+1 This is why overall yield doesn't really mean much. Just like UChicago has an 80+% yield in line with Harvard and Stanford, that of course doesn't tell the full story of the students they are attracting. UChicago still loses the cross admit battle to Duke, Penn, Caltech, and Columbia, let alone Harvard and Stanford, even though its overall yield is so high.