Student verbally assaulting teacher in front of class

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My MS child came home with a story about a student calling a teacher an a-hole and telling her to shut up in class today in front of everyone. This student isn't from the community and comes on a special program. It took 15 minutes for security to arrive, and the boy has been talking to the teacher like this all week. Kids said the teacher was crying. If the kid is back in class on Monday, I hope the teacher goes straight to the union.

MCPS will say that the teacher should have built a better relationship with the student.

This is not an exaggeration.

They will say that if the teacher has engaging lessons, students won't behave that way.

Well it's kind of true.

Nonsense, and you know it. I’ve had students be disruptive even during my most engaging and interesting lessons. Why? Because my lesson is just one small aspect of their lives. They are also dealing with interpersonal relationship problems, exposure to serious adult content on their iPhones, really complex family problems, and the list goes on. My lesson doesn’t take away the myriad of challenges children face. I may be able to distract them for a bit, but their problems remain.

The problem is excess discipline of children of color, even those from wealthy families. Since MCPS can't figure out how discipline kids fairly they choose not to discipline at all. That way they can blame parents for their own ineptitude instead of addressing racism.

Common practice right now is to blame the teachers for poor behavior and classroom disruptions. I haven’t seen any of my administrators blame parents. Instead, the common response is “engage the kids more” or “make sure you place more focus on this child so he/she feels appreciated in your classroom.” I agree that systems are not disciplining at all, but they are also placing blame on overworked, abused, and powerless teachers.

The teachers on this thread are blaming parents. The teachers are part of MCPS, and they are accountable for disparate treatment of children of color.

Are you saying that teachers on this thread are solely blaming POC parents? I have heard plenty of complaints of all parents on DCUM. In fact, the biggest complaint seems to be the entitled white parents.

Behaviors in MCPS schools are not acceptable and there are too many to handle. Teachers are quitting due to these behaviors. We need solutions rather than blame. Nobody can teach and no students can learn in environments that are not safe. Yet, that is what we are experiencing now.

If you go to the SN board, you will see/hear all of the frustration of trying to parent a child with behaviors, whether from ASD, ADHD, ODD, mental health, etc… It has never been recommended to parents that the best way to handle these behaviors is to let the child get away with it. These parents are frustrated and are often dealing 1-1. There is no way that a teacher can handle a class of 25-40 with even 2 or 3 severe behaviors without support. I get that some people want no consequences, but there has to be a way to change the behavior of at least handle the behavior. Currently, the only way is to blame the teachers or parents. But that doesn’t change anything! And restorative justice does not work when there is no staff to immediately address the issue and follow through.

We need solutions. If punishment removal is not the solution for kids who can’t behave in class, what is?

I am not going to respond to everything you posted here because it is pretty much all defensiveness that has nothing to do with what I wrote.
I will just say that the solutions proposed in this thread are to back to more consequences, with no acknowledgment that MCPS needs to address racism or those consequences will cause greater harm to students of color.

Different poster here, not the one you are responding to.

I see a lot of posters offering suggestions. Apparently you don’t like them. What are yours? In case my tone doesn’t express it, I’m sincerely curious. If MCPS acknowledges racism in the classroom exists, which I’m sure it has several times over by now, what else would you like to see them try?

I already said what I think of those suggestions. You seem to be giving MCPS a lot of credit, but the data shows that them "acknowledging" racism has not moved the needle. I'm sure you'll come back and say"well they can't do anythong about parenting" and this conversation will keep going on in circles.

No, I wouldn’t say that. In fact, I’ve never made a comment about parenting on this thread or any other. What suggestions do you have for stopping dangerous behavior? Clearly we can all agree that we can’t have regular disruptions in our classrooms. RJ is not working. Students see right through it and regularly mock the idea now. So what do we do? Serious question, trying to move this thread forward.

+1

I am a 5th grade teacher. For those who are not in the classroom and not observing how bad things are, what are your solutions? Things cannot continue this way. Things are REALLY bad. Restorative justice is not working to change the behavior- it is only exacerbating them. Please try to imagine a classroom that is completely out of control and a teacher not allowed to send a child out. Imagine if it was your own elementary student in a classroom where no teaching can take place due to behaviors of other students. Would you be okay with that? The kids who are ready to learn are truly suffering right now. They cannot learn because the teacher cannot teach. I will repeat, things are REALLY bad.

I do not at all dispute that things are bad. What I am saying is that they have always been, and continue to be "REALLY bad" for students of color. I do not agree with any approach that does not allow for consequences. I also think that the ability to dole out consequences was taken away because MCPS wants to paper over the racist practices of excessive discipline for certain students. They are not going to go back to that, so they have to engage in a serious process of advancing racial equity, and in my experience they are totally unwilling to do that because that would involve acknowledging the racism, and they cannot handle that.

[Anonymous]

You have no clear an convincing proof that MCPS disciplinary policies in the 70’s - 90’s were racist. What you have are raw numbers showing that black kids were a higher percentage of this disciplined than overall numbers of black students in the schools. Those numbers do not prove racism in MCPS. To the contrary, your repeated assertion of that canard and trope has racist overtones. And now here we are today. With a failing system that benefits hardly anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You have no clear an convincing proof that MCPS disciplinary policies in the 70’s - 90’s were racist. What you have are raw numbers showing that black kids were a higher percentage of this disciplined than overall numbers of black students in the schools. Those numbers do not prove racism in MCPS. To the contrary, your repeated assertion of that canard and trope has racist overtones. And now here we are today. With a failing system that benefits hardly anyone.

I mean there is plenty of evidence, both from MCPS and nationally. We see it in how often WEALTHY Black boys are disciplined. They are not being disciplined so much because they have bad parents, or because they are bad children. GTFOOH. It is racism. But don't worry because MCPS administrators think like you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have no clear an convincing proof that MCPS disciplinary policies in the 70’s - 90’s were racist. What you have are raw numbers showing that black kids were a higher percentage of this disciplined than overall numbers of black students in the schools. Those numbers do not prove racism in MCPS. To the contrary, your repeated assertion of that canard and trope has racist overtones. And now here we are today. With a failing system that benefits hardly anyone.

I mean there is plenty of evidence, both from MCPS and nationally. We see it in how often WEALTHY Black boys are disciplined. They are not being disciplined so much because they have bad parents, or because they are bad children. GTFOOH. It is racism. But don't worry because MCPS administrators think like you do.

So it definitely makes sense to just stop all discipline. GTFOOH. Principals should be allowed to follow the code of conduct for all students. Yet, they’re not allowed to for any student. Behaviors need consequences for all students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have no clear an convincing proof that MCPS disciplinary policies in the 70’s - 90’s were racist. What you have are raw numbers showing that black kids were a higher percentage of this disciplined than overall numbers of black students in the schools. Those numbers do not prove racism in MCPS. To the contrary, your repeated assertion of that canard and trope has racist overtones. And now here we are today. With a failing system that benefits hardly anyone.

I mean there is plenty of evidence, both from MCPS and nationally. We see it in how often WEALTHY Black boys are disciplined. They are not being disciplined so much because they have bad parents, or because they are bad children. GTFOOH. It is racism. But don't worry because MCPS administrators think like you do.

So it definitely makes sense to just stop all discipline. GTFOOH. Principals should be allowed to follow the code of conduct for all students. Yet, they’re not allowed to for any student. Behaviors need consequences for all students.

ONCE AGAIN I do not think the current system is working, and I think there should be consequences. Unlike you, I do not think the old system was working either but that is because I don't think excessive discipline for students of color is ok and you just don't want to acknowledge it exists.

[Anonymous]

I’ll acknowledge what I saw growing up in MoCo and attending elementary through high school in the 70s and 80s. Discipline was not racist based on personal knowledge and information and belief at Wheaton, Peary, Rockville, Kennedy, Springbrook, Seneca Valley and BCC. That is not to say that there were not some tacist white kids at such schools but I do believe that MCPS policies were intentionally or unintentionally racist. What’s your evidence that they were? Because you say so based on some days of the percentages of who were suspended?

[Anonymous]

Do not believe

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ll acknowledge what I saw growing up in MoCo and attending elementary through high school in the 70s and 80s. Discipline was not racist based on personal knowledge and information and belief at Wheaton, Peary, Rockville, Kennedy, Springbrook, Seneca Valley and BCC. That is not to say that there were not some tacist white kids at such schools but I do believe that MCPS policies were intentionally or unintentionally racist. What’s your evidence that they were? Because you say so based on some days of the percentages of who were suspended?

IWEALTHY BLACK BOYS IN MCPS ARE DISCIPLINED AT HIGHER RATES THAN POOR WHITE BOYS.

[Anonymous]

How do you know? MCPS doesn’t track family SES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll acknowledge what I saw growing up in MoCo and attending elementary through high school in the 70s and 80s. Discipline was not racist based on personal knowledge and information and belief at Wheaton, Peary, Rockville, Kennedy, Springbrook, Seneca Valley and BCC. That is not to say that there were not some tacist white kids at such schools but I do believe that MCPS policies were intentionally or unintentionally racist. What’s your evidence that they were? Because you say so based on some days of the percentages of who were suspended?

IWEALTHY BLACK BOYS IN MCPS ARE DISCIPLINED AT HIGHER RATES THAN POOR WHITE BOYS.

Please provide the data showing kids at the same school doing the same behaviors over the last 3 years.

[Anonymous]

Then train the principals. Don’t take away all consequences.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As a teacher, I have also been told by students that it doesn’t matter if they get sent to the office as nobody gets in trouble. They wander the halls, cuss in class, kick other kids chairs, pee on the floor in the bathroom, and create a hard working environment for the other 29 kids in the class. But they are correct. They do not get in trouble. They get told not to do it again and we repeat the cycle. If I call home, the parent either won’t answer the phone or cussed me out for bothering them.

At least when there are consequences, the kids understood that and the other students in the class saw they couldn’t get away with it. Now on top of the disruptive kid, others see they can get away with it and we have many kids acting this way.

Restorative justice has hurt rather than helped the class.

I could have written this myself. Do you teach third grade too? So sad it has come to this....

5th at a difficult focus school. I’ve been at the same school for 10 years and it was only when we switched to restorative justice have things really deteriorated.

NP here. I'm also a teacher at an elementary focus school and student behavior has been declining since at least 2017. If we hadn't gone out in March 2020 I'm not sure how we would have made it the final three months. That year was pure hell. I think some of us are now just unphased at the craziness that goes on in classrooms. I always wonder how none of this ends up being dinner time conversation at home? If any of my kids came home and told me about this stuff, I'd be at the principal's door the next day. I realize the families in our communities are very busy but you would think at least a few would be up in arms.

I have a kid at a Focus school. We had a student who would throw things (chairs, trash cans), run out of the room, yell at the teacher, hit another kid. It was insanity. Plenty of parents approached the principal. Honestly, I don’t even blame the principal because there wasn’t much she could do. One parent tried our cluster super, but got nowhere. The cluster super is useless. She just posts nonsense on Twitter and hasn’t even stepped foot in our school. (Side note - I’m pretty she recently got a promotion in MCPS.)

The system is broken. Completely and totally broken. Parents and teachers are at the mercy of a defective BOE, and at the mercy of local politicians. Our schools are overcrowded and our staff are stretched too thin. The lack of discipline is demoralizing and exhausting.

And the kids who want to actually learn are just left to fend for themselves.

We strongly considers private school, but it would be a financial stretch. So we stick it out, for now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What’s your evidence that MCPS is racist? You believe the black and Latino kids are punished more and more severely than white kids?

There are a great deal of data to support this. It’s more institutional/inherent racism than overt racism in my experience. Doesn’t mean students have the right to be verbally abusive, however (though it happens regularly).

[Anonymous]

If you suck as a parent, your kids pay the price by becoming ***holes. Be better parents.

And I am not a teacher, but a parent who see's a lot of other parents point fingers for their kids being undisciplined jerks either in school, at the Mall, at a restaurant etc.

And MCPS, you suck too. Punish bad behavior. Get them out of the classroom.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My MS child came home with a story about a student calling a teacher an a-hole and telling her to shut up in class today in front of everyone. This student isn't from the community and comes on a special program. It took 15 minutes for security to arrive, and the boy has been talking to the teacher like this all week. Kids said the teacher was crying. If the kid is back in class on Monday, I hope the teacher goes straight to the union.

MCPS will say that the teacher should have built a better relationship with the student.

This is not an exaggeration.

They will say that if the teacher has engaging lessons, students won't behave that way.

Well it's kind of true.

Nonsense, and you know it. I’ve had students be disruptive even during my most engaging and interesting lessons. Why? Because my lesson is just one small aspect of their lives. They are also dealing with interpersonal relationship problems, exposure to serious adult content on their iPhones, really complex family problems, and the list goes on. My lesson doesn’t take away the myriad of challenges children face. I may be able to distract them for a bit, but their problems remain.

Well said. I had so much going on at home between ages 8 and 15 (sibling with severe special needs, sexual abuse by a relative, DV by my dad on my mom, food insecurity, evictions, etc). I wasn’t a behavioral problem, but I was disengaged although I knew my teachers were kind and the lessons were interesting. I wish I could have accessed everything, but my brain was in survival mode.