Science says: never get rid of AAP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AAP isn’t tracking. It’s segregation.

This is such a stupid post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are so many dumb woke/liberal talking points on here

Let smart kids take advanced subjects with other smart kids who are on their level. Why is that so controversial? Why hold them back with remedial learners?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are so many dumb woke/liberal talking points on here

I know! Why can't they just leave well enough alone! We've been gaming admission to elite programs since the dawn of time. I just don't see that anyone is even asking for a level playing field.

Gaming admission? You mean studying?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are so many dumb woke/liberal talking points on here

Woke? liberal? Stop parroting Fox News. People are pointing out flaws in the system. I have an AAP kid. She thrived in AAP vs gen ed. But I still think the selection process if flawed and that the whole AAP=all the smart kids and gen ed=not smart kids is something silly AAP parents tell themselves to make them feel better.

I actually agree the selection is flawed when folks with the right skin color are getting selected at 5 times the rate of folks with other skin colors

Aap is supposed to be smart kids but now skin color is more important than actual aptitude

PP you are responding to….most of the AAP kids in both of ES and MS schools are white and Asian??

a PP already broke it out

URM can get in with scores in the 120s vs whites and asians who get ignored with scores in the high 130s and even 140s

When you start caring more about woke/liberalism vs actual aptitude you get this kind of insanity

PS most URM think woke white and asian liberals are idiots.

Except the vast majority of those getting in with scores in the 120s are from Title I schools where instruction moves much slower and classes are dominated by ESL learners. The ceiling is lower but the floor is lower as well. The vast majority of those who score 130+ and are denied admittance are from high SES schools where gen ed classes are already taught at a much higher level. They're pulling the top learners out from each elementary, which makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

My kid is in AAP. My husband and I have graduate degrees. We are not dumb. So I’m not AAP hater. But the system is flawed. Kids with high scores get rejected. Kids whose parents have resources and know the system get in on appeal. And it’s an accelerated program Vs a gifted program. I think any reasonably intelligent person can see it’s flawed. The people who get very defensive about any criticism of it to the point that they have to call people dumb shouldn’t be boasting about their intelligence.

I guess what frosts me is this assertion that someone's kid is more deserving of opportunities like TJ because they were in AAP. Yes, my kids are in AAP, but so what. All kids deserve great opportunities, not just those whose parents know how to work the system. Lots of bright and gifted kids fallthrough the cracks.

What is the evidence/why the assumption that the majority of AAP kids somehow game the system? I’m at an upper SES school and don’t know a single family that did this, maybe I’m just unaware. I parent referred my kid in second, and he wasn’t accepted. Reapplied in third, accepted for fourth. I didn’t talk to the principal or a teacher about it, I just did it on my own. How are people gaming a system? Don’t claim they’re all PTA mom kids. Our center school has a fairly inactive PTA.

I don't know about the majority but many get in because their parents work the system.

How. Are. They. Working. The. System?

You (and others) keep asserting that over and over again, but without any proof or even a solid allegation, for that matter.

The last AAP Audit pointed to how families with higher SES end up with a higher percentage of kids in AAP then other families. It pointed to a higher propensity for parents to refer, parents to appeal, and parents to seek outside testing. FCPS removed the letters of recommendation from the AAP packet because it was noted that higher SES families were more likely to provide those and have kids in opportunities were someone could write a letter. FCPS also removed the awards section because higher SES families were more likely to have their kids involved in math competitions and music competitions.

Essentially, the rules allow all of the above but the Audit noted that as SES increase, the likelihood that parents used the rules increased. It also noted that Asian and White families were far more likely to use the various avenues in order to get their kids into AAP. And they are more likely to reapply. And reapply.

The parents are following the rules but the disparity in who is following those rules is leading to the process tightening. Test scores are no longer given much weight, they seem to be used only to establish the pool of automatic candidates. They removed the awards and letters of recommendation because they were biased towards people who could afford activities.

One of the recommendations from the Audit was to remove parent paid for testing and appeals.

The equity report also showed that URMs are being admitted with significantly lower test scores than White or Asian kids, and that after controlling for test scores and GBRS, a AA kid is 5 times more likely to be selected than an Asian kid.

My white DD got rejected and we needed to use the appeals/reapply system to get her in. She had a 130 CogAT, 15 GBRS, was above grade level in all metrics, eventually got pass advanced on all SOLs with perfect scores on most of them, and got a 98th percentile on IAAT. Meanwhile, 2 of her close friends who are URMs got in first round with CogAT scores less than 120. They weren't in the above grade level reading group, didn't get pass advanced on SOLs, failed the IAAT pretty spectacularly (one got 30th percentile), and didn't get the President's Award at the end of 6th. All of the kids were middle class with educated parents, but at a Title I school.

I don't begrudge letting above average but not really AAP level URMs into the program to promote equity, but let's be honest about the whole thing. URMs aren't needing to use the appeals or reapply process, because if they're slightly above average, they're already getting in first round. They don't even need to parent refer, since the teachers are already referring any URM who is somewhat above average. It's not unjust that I did use the appeals process for my child, since by any objective measurement, she belonged in the program. What is your solution to the fact that even after lowering the bar significantly for URMs, they're still technically underrepresented in AAP? Should we lower the bar even more? Should we reject more White and Asian kids who are above grade level in all metrics? Should we eliminate appeals to keep kids like mine out of the program?

So many majority parents pay to get the "right score" from a psychologist to get their kids in on appeal and so many majority parents get questionable "diagnosis" of conditions by paying and use that to get unjustified accommodations and extra time throughout schools and even in colleges. Shameful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

My kid is in AAP. My husband and I have graduate degrees. We are not dumb. So I’m not AAP hater. But the system is flawed. Kids with high scores get rejected. Kids whose parents have resources and know the system get in on appeal. And it’s an accelerated program Vs a gifted program. I think any reasonably intelligent person can see it’s flawed. The people who get very defensive about any criticism of it to the point that they have to call people dumb shouldn’t be boasting about their intelligence.

I guess what frosts me is this assertion that someone's kid is more deserving of opportunities like TJ because they were in AAP. Yes, my kids are in AAP, but so what. All kids deserve great opportunities, not just those whose parents know how to work the system. Lots of bright and gifted kids fallthrough the cracks.

What is the evidence/why the assumption that the majority of AAP kids somehow game the system? I’m at an upper SES school and don’t know a single family that did this, maybe I’m just unaware. I parent referred my kid in second, and he wasn’t accepted. Reapplied in third, accepted for fourth. I didn’t talk to the principal or a teacher about it, I just did it on my own. How are people gaming a system? Don’t claim they’re all PTA mom kids. Our center school has a fairly inactive PTA.

I don't know about the majority but many get in because their parents work the system.

How. Are. They. Working. The. System?

You (and others) keep asserting that over and over again, but without any proof or even a solid allegation, for that matter.

The last AAP Audit pointed to how families with higher SES end up with a higher percentage of kids in AAP then other families. It pointed to a higher propensity for parents to refer, parents to appeal, and parents to seek outside testing. FCPS removed the letters of recommendation from the AAP packet because it was noted that higher SES families were more likely to provide those and have kids in opportunities were someone could write a letter. FCPS also removed the awards section because higher SES families were more likely to have their kids involved in math competitions and music competitions.

Essentially, the rules allow all of the above but the Audit noted that as SES increase, the likelihood that parents used the rules increased. It also noted that Asian and White families were far more likely to use the various avenues in order to get their kids into AAP. And they are more likely to reapply. And reapply.

The parents are following the rules but the disparity in who is following those rules is leading to the process tightening. Test scores are no longer given much weight, they seem to be used only to establish the pool of automatic candidates. They removed the awards and letters of recommendation because they were biased towards people who could afford activities.

One of the recommendations from the Audit was to remove parent paid for testing and appeals.

The equity report also showed that URMs are being admitted with significantly lower test scores than White or Asian kids, and that after controlling for test scores and GBRS, a AA kid is 5 times more likely to be selected than an Asian kid.

My white DD got rejected and we needed to use the appeals/reapply system to get her in. She had a 130 CogAT, 15 GBRS, was above grade level in all metrics, eventually got pass advanced on all SOLs with perfect scores on most of them, and got a 98th percentile on IAAT. Meanwhile, 2 of her close friends who are URMs got in first round with CogAT scores less than 120. They weren't in the above grade level reading group, didn't get pass advanced on SOLs, failed the IAAT pretty spectacularly (one got 30th percentile), and didn't get the President's Award at the end of 6th. All of the kids were middle class with educated parents, but at a Title I school.

I don't begrudge letting above average but not really AAP level URMs into the program to promote equity, but let's be honest about the whole thing. URMs aren't needing to use the appeals or reapply process, because if they're slightly above average, they're already getting in first round. They don't even need to parent refer, since the teachers are already referring any URM who is somewhat above average. It's not unjust that I did use the appeals process for my child, since by any objective measurement, she belonged in the program. What is your solution to the fact that even after lowering the bar significantly for URMs, they're still technically underrepresented in AAP? Should we lower the bar even more? Should we reject more White and Asian kids who are above grade level in all metrics? Should we eliminate appeals to keep kids like mine out of the program?

So many majority parents pay to get the "right score" from a psychologist to get their kids in on appeal and so many majority parents get questionable "diagnosis" of conditions by paying and use that to get unjustified accommodations and extra time throughout schools and even in colleges. Shameful.

You can’t pay to get the “right score” from a psychologist. Even if you were to assume that some psychologist is willing to risk their license to give your child an overly high score, it wouldn’t help your child. They largely disregard WISC scores. Many parents appeal with scores higher than 130 or even higher than 140, and the kids are still being denied on appeal.

The parents who game the system for an ADHD diagnosis are not doing so at the beginning of 2nd grade. They generally don’t diagnose them that young.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are so many dumb woke/liberal talking points on here

Woke? liberal? Stop parroting Fox News. People are pointing out flaws in the system. I have an AAP kid. She thrived in AAP vs gen ed. But I still think the selection process if flawed and that the whole AAP=all the smart kids and gen ed=not smart kids is something silly AAP parents tell themselves to make them feel better.

I actually agree the selection is flawed when folks with the right skin color are getting selected at 5 times the rate of folks with other skin colors

Aap is supposed to be smart kids but now skin color is more important than actual aptitude

PP you are responding to….most of the AAP kids in both of ES and MS schools are white and Asian??

a PP already broke it out

URM can get in with scores in the 120s vs whites and asians who get ignored with scores in the high 130s and even 140s

When you start caring more about woke/liberalism vs actual aptitude you get this kind of insanity

PS most URM think woke white and asian liberals are idiots.

Except the vast majority of those getting in with scores in the 120s are from Title I schools where instruction moves much slower and classes are dominated by ESL learners. The ceiling is lower but the floor is lower as well. The vast majority of those who score 130+ and are denied admittance are from high SES schools where gen ed classes are already taught at a much higher level. They're pulling the top learners out from each elementary, which makes sense.

This.

Not to mention, the number of URM in-pool and being referred is far lower then the White and Asian kids. So the pool of URM kids is a good deal lower then the pool of White and Asian kids.

More likely then not, the kid with a 130 and high GBRSs was going to be fine in Gen Ed at their base school because there were other kids who were on that kids level. There will be other kids who are ahead and in the advanced reading group and in advanced math.

The 120 kid at a Title 1 school is in a class with kids who are not fluent in English and who are several grade levels below the 120 kids. Pulling out the 120 kids gives them an opportunity to be in a class that is on grade level and maybe a bit advanced.

This is why the local ES in-pool scores is needed. The needs of the top 10% at each school is different. Acknowledging that what is advanced at each school is different is a good way to reach the kids who need more at their specific schools instead of insisting that there is one standard across the County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP isn’t tracking. It’s segregation.

This is such a stupid post.

I agree with the PP. It seems more like a workaround for segregation based on SES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are so many dumb woke/liberal talking points on here

Woke? liberal? Stop parroting Fox News. People are pointing out flaws in the system. I have an AAP kid. She thrived in AAP vs gen ed. But I still think the selection process if flawed and that the whole AAP=all the smart kids and gen ed=not smart kids is something silly AAP parents tell themselves to make them feel better.

I actually agree the selection is flawed when folks with the right skin color are getting selected at 5 times the rate of folks with other skin colors

Aap is supposed to be smart kids but now skin color is more important than actual aptitude

PP you are responding to….most of the AAP kids in both of ES and MS schools are white and Asian??

a PP already broke it out

URM can get in with scores in the 120s vs whites and asians who get ignored with scores in the high 130s and even 140s

When you start caring more about woke/liberalism vs actual aptitude you get this kind of insanity

PS most URM think woke white and asian liberals are idiots.

Except the vast majority of those getting in with scores in the 120s are from Title I schools where instruction moves much slower and classes are dominated by ESL learners. The ceiling is lower but the floor is lower as well. The vast majority of those who score 130+ and are denied admittance are from high SES schools where gen ed classes are already taught at a much higher level. They're pulling the top learners out from each elementary, which makes sense.

Well if their parents cared about education they'd live in a wealthy area!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

My kid is in AAP. My husband and I have graduate degrees. We are not dumb. So I’m not AAP hater. But the system is flawed. Kids with high scores get rejected. Kids whose parents have resources and know the system get in on appeal. And it’s an accelerated program Vs a gifted program. I think any reasonably intelligent person can see it’s flawed. The people who get very defensive about any criticism of it to the point that they have to call people dumb shouldn’t be boasting about their intelligence.

I guess what frosts me is this assertion that someone's kid is more deserving of opportunities like TJ because they were in AAP. Yes, my kids are in AAP, but so what. All kids deserve great opportunities, not just those whose parents know how to work the system. Lots of bright and gifted kids fallthrough the cracks.

What is the evidence/why the assumption that the majority of AAP kids somehow game the system? I’m at an upper SES school and don’t know a single family that did this, maybe I’m just unaware. I parent referred my kid in second, and he wasn’t accepted. Reapplied in third, accepted for fourth. I didn’t talk to the principal or a teacher about it, I just did it on my own. How are people gaming a system? Don’t claim they’re all PTA mom kids. Our center school has a fairly inactive PTA.

I don't know about the majority but many get in because their parents work the system.

How. Are. They. Working. The. System?

You (and others) keep asserting that over and over again, but without any proof or even a solid allegation, for that matter.

The last AAP Audit pointed to how families with higher SES end up with a higher percentage of kids in AAP then other families. It pointed to a higher propensity for parents to refer, parents to appeal, and parents to seek outside testing. FCPS removed the letters of recommendation from the AAP packet because it was noted that higher SES families were more likely to provide those and have kids in opportunities were someone could write a letter. FCPS also removed the awards section because higher SES families were more likely to have their kids involved in math competitions and music competitions.

Essentially, the rules allow all of the above but the Audit noted that as SES increase, the likelihood that parents used the rules increased. It also noted that Asian and White families were far more likely to use the various avenues in order to get their kids into AAP. And they are more likely to reapply. And reapply.

The parents are following the rules but the disparity in who is following those rules is leading to the process tightening. Test scores are no longer given much weight, they seem to be used only to establish the pool of automatic candidates. They removed the awards and letters of recommendation because they were biased towards people who could afford activities.

One of the recommendations from the Audit was to remove parent paid for testing and appeals.

The equity report also showed that URMs are being admitted with significantly lower test scores than White or Asian kids, and that after controlling for test scores and GBRS, a AA kid is 5 times more likely to be selected than an Asian kid.

My white DD got rejected and we needed to use the appeals/reapply system to get her in. She had a 130 CogAT, 15 GBRS, was above grade level in all metrics, eventually got pass advanced on all SOLs with perfect scores on most of them, and got a 98th percentile on IAAT. Meanwhile, 2 of her close friends who are URMs got in first round with CogAT scores less than 120. They weren't in the above grade level reading group, didn't get pass advanced on SOLs, failed the IAAT pretty spectacularly (one got 30th percentile), and didn't get the President's Award at the end of 6th. All of the kids were middle class with educated parents, but at a Title I school.

I don't begrudge letting above average but not really AAP level URMs into the program to promote equity, but let's be honest about the whole thing. URMs aren't needing to use the appeals or reapply process, because if they're slightly above average, they're already getting in first round. They don't even need to parent refer, since the teachers are already referring any URM who is somewhat above average. It's not unjust that I did use the appeals process for my child, since by any objective measurement, she belonged in the program. What is your solution to the fact that even after lowering the bar significantly for URMs, they're still technically underrepresented in AAP? Should we lower the bar even more? Should we reject more White and Asian kids who are above grade level in all metrics? Should we eliminate appeals to keep kids like mine out of the program?

So many majority parents pay to get the "right score" from a psychologist to get their kids in on appeal and so many majority parents get questionable "diagnosis" of conditions by paying and use that to get unjustified accommodations and extra time throughout schools and even in colleges. Shameful.

You can’t pay to get the “right score” from a psychologist. Even if you were to assume that some psychologist is willing to risk their license to give your child an overly high score, it wouldn’t help your child. They largely disregard WISC scores. Many parents appeal with scores higher than 130 or even higher than 140, and the kids are still being denied on appeal.

The parents who game the system for an ADHD diagnosis are not doing so at the beginning of 2nd grade. They generally don’t diagnose them that young.

Nonsense, people do it every year. I know a family who went to 3 different ones until they found one who would play ball. They did whatever it took to ensure their child got into AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are so many dumb woke/liberal talking points on here

Woke? liberal? Stop parroting Fox News. People are pointing out flaws in the system. I have an AAP kid. She thrived in AAP vs gen ed. But I still think the selection process if flawed and that the whole AAP=all the smart kids and gen ed=not smart kids is something silly AAP parents tell themselves to make them feel better.

I actually agree the selection is flawed when folks with the right skin color are getting selected at 5 times the rate of folks with other skin colors

Aap is supposed to be smart kids but now skin color is more important than actual aptitude

PP you are responding to….most of the AAP kids in both of ES and MS schools are white and Asian??

a PP already broke it out

URM can get in with scores in the 120s vs whites and asians who get ignored with scores in the high 130s and even 140s

When you start caring more about woke/liberalism vs actual aptitude you get this kind of insanity

PS most URM think woke white and asian liberals are idiots.

Except the vast majority of those getting in with scores in the 120s are from Title I schools where instruction moves much slower and classes are dominated by ESL learners. The ceiling is lower but the floor is lower as well. The vast majority of those who score 130+ and are denied admittance are from high SES schools where gen ed classes are already taught at a much higher level. They're pulling the top learners out from each elementary, which makes sense.

This.

Not to mention, the number of URM in-pool and being referred is far lower then the White and Asian kids. So the pool of URM kids is a good deal lower then the pool of White and Asian kids.

More likely then not, the kid with a 130 and high GBRSs was going to be fine in Gen Ed at their base school because there were other kids who were on that kids level. There will be other kids who are ahead and in the advanced reading group and in advanced math.

The 120 kid at a Title 1 school is in a class with kids who are not fluent in English and who are several grade levels below the 120 kids. Pulling out the 120 kids gives them an opportunity to be in a class that is on grade level and maybe a bit advanced.

This is why the local ES in-pool scores is needed. The needs of the top 10% at each school is different. Acknowledging that what is advanced at each school is different is a good way to reach the kids who need more at their specific schools instead of insisting that there is one standard across the County.

I get that their scores are lower because their school doesn't compare to one in a more affluent area, and if there's ever a time to try and address this inequality it would be now as opposed to when someone is an adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

My kid is in AAP. My husband and I have graduate degrees. We are not dumb. So I’m not AAP hater. But the system is flawed. Kids with high scores get rejected. Kids whose parents have resources and know the system get in on appeal. And it’s an accelerated program Vs a gifted program. I think any reasonably intelligent person can see it’s flawed. The people who get very defensive about any criticism of it to the point that they have to call people dumb shouldn’t be boasting about their intelligence.

I guess what frosts me is this assertion that someone's kid is more deserving of opportunities like TJ because they were in AAP. Yes, my kids are in AAP, but so what. All kids deserve great opportunities, not just those whose parents know how to work the system. Lots of bright and gifted kids fallthrough the cracks.

What is the evidence/why the assumption that the majority of AAP kids somehow game the system? I’m at an upper SES school and don’t know a single family that did this, maybe I’m just unaware. I parent referred my kid in second, and he wasn’t accepted. Reapplied in third, accepted for fourth. I didn’t talk to the principal or a teacher about it, I just did it on my own. How are people gaming a system? Don’t claim they’re all PTA mom kids. Our center school has a fairly inactive PTA.

I don't know about the majority but many get in because their parents work the system.

How. Are. They. Working. The. System?

You (and others) keep asserting that over and over again, but without any proof or even a solid allegation, for that matter.

The last AAP Audit pointed to how families with higher SES end up with a higher percentage of kids in AAP then other families. It pointed to a higher propensity for parents to refer, parents to appeal, and parents to seek outside testing. FCPS removed the letters of recommendation from the AAP packet because it was noted that higher SES families were more likely to provide those and have kids in opportunities were someone could write a letter. FCPS also removed the awards section because higher SES families were more likely to have their kids involved in math competitions and music competitions.

Essentially, the rules allow all of the above but the Audit noted that as SES increase, the likelihood that parents used the rules increased. It also noted that Asian and White families were far more likely to use the various avenues in order to get their kids into AAP. And they are more likely to reapply. And reapply.

The parents are following the rules but the disparity in who is following those rules is leading to the process tightening. Test scores are no longer given much weight, they seem to be used only to establish the pool of automatic candidates. They removed the awards and letters of recommendation because they were biased towards people who could afford activities.

One of the recommendations from the Audit was to remove parent paid for testing and appeals.

The equity report also showed that URMs are being admitted with significantly lower test scores than White or Asian kids, and that after controlling for test scores and GBRS, a AA kid is 5 times more likely to be selected than an Asian kid.

My white DD got rejected and we needed to use the appeals/reapply system to get her in. She had a 130 CogAT, 15 GBRS, was above grade level in all metrics, eventually got pass advanced on all SOLs with perfect scores on most of them, and got a 98th percentile on IAAT. Meanwhile, 2 of her close friends who are URMs got in first round with CogAT scores less than 120. They weren't in the above grade level reading group, didn't get pass advanced on SOLs, failed the IAAT pretty spectacularly (one got 30th percentile), and didn't get the President's Award at the end of 6th. All of the kids were middle class with educated parents, but at a Title I school.

I don't begrudge letting above average but not really AAP level URMs into the program to promote equity, but let's be honest about the whole thing. URMs aren't needing to use the appeals or reapply process, because if they're slightly above average, they're already getting in first round. They don't even need to parent refer, since the teachers are already referring any URM who is somewhat above average. It's not unjust that I did use the appeals process for my child, since by any objective measurement, she belonged in the program. What is your solution to the fact that even after lowering the bar significantly for URMs, they're still technically underrepresented in AAP? Should we lower the bar even more? Should we reject more White and Asian kids who are above grade level in all metrics? Should we eliminate appeals to keep kids like mine out of the program?

So many majority parents pay to get the "right score" from a psychologist to get their kids in on appeal and so many majority parents get questionable "diagnosis" of conditions by paying and use that to get unjustified accommodations and extra time throughout schools and even in colleges. Shameful.

You can’t pay to get the “right score” from a psychologist. Even if you were to assume that some psychologist is willing to risk their license to give your child an overly high score, it wouldn’t help your child. They largely disregard WISC scores. Many parents appeal with scores higher than 130 or even higher than 140, and the kids are still being denied on appeal.

The parents who game the system for an ADHD diagnosis are not doing so at the beginning of 2nd grade. They generally don’t diagnose them that young.

Nonsense, people do it every year. I know a family who went to 3 different ones until they found one who would play ball. They did whatever it took to ensure their child got into AAP.

Happens all the time - people engaged in it will say otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

My kid is in AAP. My husband and I have graduate degrees. We are not dumb. So I’m not AAP hater. But the system is flawed. Kids with high scores get rejected. Kids whose parents have resources and know the system get in on appeal. And it’s an accelerated program Vs a gifted program. I think any reasonably intelligent person can see it’s flawed. The people who get very defensive about any criticism of it to the point that they have to call people dumb shouldn’t be boasting about their intelligence.

I guess what frosts me is this assertion that someone's kid is more deserving of opportunities like TJ because they were in AAP. Yes, my kids are in AAP, but so what. All kids deserve great opportunities, not just those whose parents know how to work the system. Lots of bright and gifted kids fallthrough the cracks.

What is the evidence/why the assumption that the majority of AAP kids somehow game the system? I’m at an upper SES school and don’t know a single family that did this, maybe I’m just unaware. I parent referred my kid in second, and he wasn’t accepted. Reapplied in third, accepted for fourth. I didn’t talk to the principal or a teacher about it, I just did it on my own. How are people gaming a system? Don’t claim they’re all PTA mom kids. Our center school has a fairly inactive PTA.

I don't know about the majority but many get in because their parents work the system.

How. Are. They. Working. The. System?

You (and others) keep asserting that over and over again, but without any proof or even a solid allegation, for that matter.

The last AAP Audit pointed to how families with higher SES end up with a higher percentage of kids in AAP then other families. It pointed to a higher propensity for parents to refer, parents to appeal, and parents to seek outside testing. FCPS removed the letters of recommendation from the AAP packet because it was noted that higher SES families were more likely to provide those and have kids in opportunities were someone could write a letter. FCPS also removed the awards section because higher SES families were more likely to have their kids involved in math competitions and music competitions.

Essentially, the rules allow all of the above but the Audit noted that as SES increase, the likelihood that parents used the rules increased. It also noted that Asian and White families were far more likely to use the various avenues in order to get their kids into AAP. And they are more likely to reapply. And reapply.

The parents are following the rules but the disparity in who is following those rules is leading to the process tightening. Test scores are no longer given much weight, they seem to be used only to establish the pool of automatic candidates. They removed the awards and letters of recommendation because they were biased towards people who could afford activities.

One of the recommendations from the Audit was to remove parent paid for testing and appeals.

The equity report also showed that URMs are being admitted with significantly lower test scores than White or Asian kids, and that after controlling for test scores and GBRS, a AA kid is 5 times more likely to be selected than an Asian kid.

My white DD got rejected and we needed to use the appeals/reapply system to get her in. She had a 130 CogAT, 15 GBRS, was above grade level in all metrics, eventually got pass advanced on all SOLs with perfect scores on most of them, and got a 98th percentile on IAAT. Meanwhile, 2 of her close friends who are URMs got in first round with CogAT scores less than 120. They weren't in the above grade level reading group, didn't get pass advanced on SOLs, failed the IAAT pretty spectacularly (one got 30th percentile), and didn't get the President's Award at the end of 6th. All of the kids were middle class with educated parents, but at a Title I school.

I don't begrudge letting above average but not really AAP level URMs into the program to promote equity, but let's be honest about the whole thing. URMs aren't needing to use the appeals or reapply process, because if they're slightly above average, they're already getting in first round. They don't even need to parent refer, since the teachers are already referring any URM who is somewhat above average. It's not unjust that I did use the appeals process for my child, since by any objective measurement, she belonged in the program. What is your solution to the fact that even after lowering the bar significantly for URMs, they're still technically underrepresented in AAP? Should we lower the bar even more? Should we reject more White and Asian kids who are above grade level in all metrics? Should we eliminate appeals to keep kids like mine out of the program?

So many majority parents pay to get the "right score" from a psychologist to get their kids in on appeal and so many majority parents get questionable "diagnosis" of conditions by paying and use that to get unjustified accommodations and extra time throughout schools and even in colleges. Shameful.

You can’t pay to get the “right score” from a psychologist. Even if you were to assume that some psychologist is willing to risk their license to give your child an overly high score, it wouldn’t help your child. They largely disregard WISC scores. Many parents appeal with scores higher than 130 or even higher than 140, and the kids are still being denied on appeal.

The parents who game the system for an ADHD diagnosis are not doing so at the beginning of 2nd grade. They generally don’t diagnose them that young.

Nonsense, people do it every year. I know a family who went to 3 different ones until they found one who would play ball. They did whatever it took to ensure their child got into AAP.

Happens all the time - people engaged in it will say otherwise.

And then there's the other 95% of us who just have high IQs and kids with high IQs. Sorry to trigger the rage of the dumbs and poors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are so many dumb woke/liberal talking points on here

Woke? liberal? Stop parroting Fox News. People are pointing out flaws in the system. I have an AAP kid. She thrived in AAP vs gen ed. But I still think the selection process if flawed and that the whole AAP=all the smart kids and gen ed=not smart kids is something silly AAP parents tell themselves to make them feel better.

I actually agree the selection is flawed when folks with the right skin color are getting selected at 5 times the rate of folks with other skin colors

Aap is supposed to be smart kids but now skin color is more important than actual aptitude

PP you are responding to….most of the AAP kids in both of ES and MS schools are white and Asian??

a PP already broke it out

URM can get in with scores in the 120s vs whites and asians who get ignored with scores in the high 130s and even 140s

When you start caring more about woke/liberalism vs actual aptitude you get this kind of insanity

PS most URM think woke white and asian liberals are idiots.

Except the vast majority of those getting in with scores in the 120s are from Title I schools where instruction moves much slower and classes are dominated by ESL learners. The ceiling is lower but the floor is lower as well. The vast majority of those who score 130+ and are denied admittance are from high SES schools where gen ed classes are already taught at a much higher level. They're pulling the top learners out from each elementary, which makes sense.

Well if their parents cared about education they'd live in a wealthy area!

Is this supposed to be a troll post or are you just that stupid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

My kid is in AAP. My husband and I have graduate degrees. We are not dumb. So I’m not AAP hater. But the system is flawed. Kids with high scores get rejected. Kids whose parents have resources and know the system get in on appeal. And it’s an accelerated program Vs a gifted program. I think any reasonably intelligent person can see it’s flawed. The people who get very defensive about any criticism of it to the point that they have to call people dumb shouldn’t be boasting about their intelligence.

I guess what frosts me is this assertion that someone's kid is more deserving of opportunities like TJ because they were in AAP. Yes, my kids are in AAP, but so what. All kids deserve great opportunities, not just those whose parents know how to work the system. Lots of bright and gifted kids fallthrough the cracks.

What is the evidence/why the assumption that the majority of AAP kids somehow game the system? I’m at an upper SES school and don’t know a single family that did this, maybe I’m just unaware. I parent referred my kid in second, and he wasn’t accepted. Reapplied in third, accepted for fourth. I didn’t talk to the principal or a teacher about it, I just did it on my own. How are people gaming a system? Don’t claim they’re all PTA mom kids. Our center school has a fairly inactive PTA.

I don't know about the majority but many get in because their parents work the system.

How. Are. They. Working. The. System?

You (and others) keep asserting that over and over again, but without any proof or even a solid allegation, for that matter.

The last AAP Audit pointed to how families with higher SES end up with a higher percentage of kids in AAP then other families. It pointed to a higher propensity for parents to refer, parents to appeal, and parents to seek outside testing. FCPS removed the letters of recommendation from the AAP packet because it was noted that higher SES families were more likely to provide those and have kids in opportunities were someone could write a letter. FCPS also removed the awards section because higher SES families were more likely to have their kids involved in math competitions and music competitions.

Essentially, the rules allow all of the above but the Audit noted that as SES increase, the likelihood that parents used the rules increased. It also noted that Asian and White families were far more likely to use the various avenues in order to get their kids into AAP. And they are more likely to reapply. And reapply.

The parents are following the rules but the disparity in who is following those rules is leading to the process tightening. Test scores are no longer given much weight, they seem to be used only to establish the pool of automatic candidates. They removed the awards and letters of recommendation because they were biased towards people who could afford activities.

One of the recommendations from the Audit was to remove parent paid for testing and appeals.

The equity report also showed that URMs are being admitted with significantly lower test scores than White or Asian kids, and that after controlling for test scores and GBRS, a AA kid is 5 times more likely to be selected than an Asian kid.

My white DD got rejected and we needed to use the appeals/reapply system to get her in. She had a 130 CogAT, 15 GBRS, was above grade level in all metrics, eventually got pass advanced on all SOLs with perfect scores on most of them, and got a 98th percentile on IAAT. Meanwhile, 2 of her close friends who are URMs got in first round with CogAT scores less than 120. They weren't in the above grade level reading group, didn't get pass advanced on SOLs, failed the IAAT pretty spectacularly (one got 30th percentile), and didn't get the President's Award at the end of 6th. All of the kids were middle class with educated parents, but at a Title I school.

I don't begrudge letting above average but not really AAP level URMs into the program to promote equity, but let's be honest about the whole thing. URMs aren't needing to use the appeals or reapply process, because if they're slightly above average, they're already getting in first round. They don't even need to parent refer, since the teachers are already referring any URM who is somewhat above average. It's not unjust that I did use the appeals process for my child, since by any objective measurement, she belonged in the program. What is your solution to the fact that even after lowering the bar significantly for URMs, they're still technically underrepresented in AAP? Should we lower the bar even more? Should we reject more White and Asian kids who are above grade level in all metrics? Should we eliminate appeals to keep kids like mine out of the program?

So many majority parents pay to get the "right score" from a psychologist to get their kids in on appeal and so many majority parents get questionable "diagnosis" of conditions by paying and use that to get unjustified accommodations and extra time throughout schools and even in colleges. Shameful.

You can’t pay to get the “right score” from a psychologist. Even if you were to assume that some psychologist is willing to risk their license to give your child an overly high score, it wouldn’t help your child. They largely disregard WISC scores. Many parents appeal with scores higher than 130 or even higher than 140, and the kids are still being denied on appeal.

The parents who game the system for an ADHD diagnosis are not doing so at the beginning of 2nd grade. They generally don’t diagnose them that young.

Nonsense, people do it every year. I know a family who went to 3 different ones until they found one who would play ball. They did whatever it took to ensure their child got into AAP.

I am sure that it happens and I am sure that it is a far smaller percentage of the AAP population then you think it is. There are always exceptions to the rule, but they remain exceptions.