Why are teachers and nurses underpaid?

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't lump in teachers and nurses. Having the summer off and all those days/weeks off during the school year, and a daily schedule that matches your kids' schoolday is incredible.

Yes yes many will say they are working nonstop during all this time but the teachers I know IRL don't feel that way, especially once you have been doing it a few yrs. And many make supplemental income in the summer if needed with tutoring, ed camps etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't lump in teachers and nurses. Having the summer off and all those days/weeks off during the school year, and a daily schedule that matches your kids' schoolday is incredible.

Yes yes many will say they are working nonstop during all this time but the teachers I know IRL don't feel that way, especially once you have been doing it a few yrs. And many make supplemental income in the summer if needed with tutoring, ed camps etc.

I’ll remember that next weekend when I spend all Sunday grading IB papers. I’ll also remember that when I sit in my car during my own kids’ meets so I can get my lesson plans in on time.

I’ve been teaching many years. 55-60 hour weeks are the norm for many high school teachers. It’s getting worse, too. If this job were so wonderful, like your post suggests it is, why exactly are we facing a growing teacher shortage?

[Anonymous]

In 2022, they are not underpaid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't lump in teachers and nurses. Having the summer off and all those days/weeks off during the school year, and a daily schedule that matches your kids' schoolday is incredible.

Yes yes many will say they are working nonstop during all this time but the teachers I know IRL don't feel that way, especially once you have been doing it a few yrs. And many make supplemental income in the summer if needed with tutoring, ed camps etc.

I’ll remember that next weekend when I spend all Sunday grading IB papers. I’ll also remember that when I sit in my car during my own kids’ meets so I can get my lesson plans in on time.

I’ve been teaching many years. 55-60 hour weeks are the norm for many high school teachers. It’s getting worse, too. If this job were so wonderful, like your post suggests it is, why exactly are we facing a growing teacher shortage?

Elementary too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't lump in teachers and nurses. Having the summer off and all those days/weeks off during the school year, and a daily schedule that matches your kids' schoolday is incredible.

Yes yes many will say they are working nonstop during all this time but the teachers I know IRL don't feel that way, especially once you have been doing it a few yrs. And many make supplemental income in the summer if needed with tutoring, ed camps etc.

I don't know any teacher parent who has the same schedule as their child. I have to be at my school at 7:30am. I am waiting at the daycare at 7am to drop my son off. Dismissal is at 2:40 but I have to coach after school to make enough money to pay the bills. I leave school at 5:15 and run like hell to get to after school care by 6pm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't lump in teachers and nurses. Having the summer off and all those days/weeks off during the school year, and a daily schedule that matches your kids' schoolday is incredible.

Yes yes many will say they are working nonstop during all this time but the teachers I know IRL don't feel that way, especially once you have been doing it a few yrs. And many make supplemental income in the summer if needed with tutoring, ed camps etc.

I don't know any teacher parent who has the same schedule as their child. I have to be at my school at 7:30am. I am waiting at the daycare at 7am to drop my son off. Dismissal is at 2:40 but I have to coach after school to make enough money to pay the bills. I leave school at 5:15 and run like hell to get to after school care by 6pm.

I thought the same thing when I read that. My day start almost 2 hours earlier than my child’s day. I also have to run after school clubs. I end up paying for before AND after care, just like many other parents. I don’t know anyone who enjoys this perk the PP mentioned.

[Anonymous]

What are the average SAT scores of teachers?

[Anonymous]

My husband has to do pick up and drop off for my kids' school because my hours are completely inflexible and I cannot get from their school to mine or reverse in enough time.

In my next job, flexibility will be the #1 factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What are the average SAT scores of teachers?

Don't know, but mine was a 1540. Should I be compensated more because of it?

Because I'm afraid you were about to suggest that because entry to teaching programs is easier, they should be paid less for the rest of their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are the average SAT scores of teachers?

Don't know, but mine was a 1540. Should I be compensated more because of it?

Because I'm afraid you were about to suggest that because entry to teaching programs is easier, they should be paid less for the rest of their lives.

Another teacher here with a high SAT score, and with a near perfect GRE.

I agree. I hate to think the PP was about to equate income potential with SAT scores.

[Anonymous]

Third teacher here. I was a National Merit Finalist. I also got into top law schools (I had a 172 on the LSAT), but I chose education over law because I thought the work would be more meaningful. It is, by and large, but I’ll admit that there are many days when I wish people didn’t make assumptions about my intelligence (or lack thereof) based on my profession. I think over time the field will draw fewer and fewer top students, and that’s a shame. We should be making education appealing to our top achievers, not making our top achievers second-guess themselves. This will be my last year in a school. I am exhausted and need a change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it because both occupations are mainly performed by women, and women are not valued as highly as men?

On a regular risk-adjusted, selection-adjusted, cost-adjusted basis, teachers are often very well-paid.

Most people who can handle college and want to be teachers can at least start out being teachers, without going through a tough weedout process. That’s probably the equivalent of a weedout adjustment of about 200 percent. (Kids who start college aiming to be teachers are at least two times as likely to achieve their goals as premeds, pre-engineers or big-law pre-laws are.)

Teachers can typically get hired with a one-year master’s. That means they get a $2,000 to $5,000 per year income bump over a 40-year career, and maybe a $4,000 to $15,000 per year bump, if you include interest costs and the value of two extra years of ability to work full time.

K-12 teachers can go through layoffs, but they’re less likely to go through a layoff than engineers, and they don’t face the weedout process law firm associates face.

Also, big-law lawyers get big salaries, but most law school grads are lucky to make $60,000 starting out. Engineers earn high starting salaries but tend to have short careers.

So, certainly, some lawyers do very well, but many lawyers are like Saul in Better Call Saul on a bad day. They’re seriously screwed. They are much more poor than a teacher with a master’s degree and 20 years of tenure.

I think any given teacher who’s making $70,000 after 20 years is the economic equivalent of a lawyer with 20 years of experience who’s making $150,000. And, in my area, teachers with 20 years of experience and master’s degrees make $100,000 or more.

Nurses face a tougher weeding out process than teachers and, in many cases, more education bills, but they earn about as much as small-law lawyers, and they’re probably about five times less likely to face weeding out than premeds. And they face much less marketing and practice management stress than doctors, along with drastically lower education and insurance costs and loss-of-work-year losses.

So, sure, nurses earn less than doctors, but a group of 100 college freshman premeds and a group of 100 college freshman pre-nursing students will probably end up with comparable lifetime cohort earnings in the targeted profession, once you add in adjustments for weeding out risk, education costs, student loan interest, malpractice insurance costs, etc.

In other words: a neurologist might be doing great, but, if you average her after-education income with the income of five of her premed friends who failed to become doctors, that average income is probably comparable to the weedout-adjusted income of a nurse or K-12 teacher.

Over 40% of new teachers quit and join other professions within 5 years. Aspiring teachers may not be weeded out of education programs, but the first few years are a real test of endurance and ability.

Ok. And?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in FFX County start around $53K. That seems like a fine starting wage for a college grad. Even better considering time off in the summer.

Teachers get the summer off. They work less days a year than other professions. I get 26 days of leave a year pkus holidays. A teacher gets triple.

Your leave is paid though. For 2 months the teachers are not paid. Now, they are free to get a second job during that time to make money.

I don't think teachers are paid enough for what we expect of them though. I taught college before and that was tough enough, with just a couple hours a day and kids that wanted to be there. I can't imagine taking on a classroom of students for 6 hours every day.

The unpaid leave argument is truly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard and it doesn't make you look very smart. Whether you call your salary an annual salary or salary for the 10 months you work it's really just semantics. Everyone knows summers are time off and whether you actually get paid during it or just need to set aside some of your other paychecks doesn't change anything. The unpaid argument would only make sense if teachers were given an annualized salary that was then pro rated for the time they actually worked but it doesn't work like that.

Teacher here. I work 20-25 hour a week over the summer. Since my contract ends in July and doesn’t pick up again until late August, those are quite literally unpaid hours. Im doing curriculum writing, website creation and modification, additional trainings, etc.

The absolute language (“everyone knows”) and insults (“doesn’t make you look very smart”) are detracting from your argument, as is the inaccurate information.

Teacher here. There is no reason for you to do that stuff over the summer. None. That’s on you.

Curriculum writing? Please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Third teacher here. I was a National Merit Finalist. I also got into top law schools (I had a 172 on the LSAT), but I chose education over law because I thought the work would be more meaningful. It is, by and large, but I’ll admit that there are many days when I wish people didn’t make assumptions about my intelligence (or lack thereof) based on my profession. I think over time the field will draw fewer and fewer top students, and that’s a shame. We should be making education appealing to our top achievers, not making our top achievers second-guess themselves. This will be my last year in a school. I am exhausted and need a change.

So go to law school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it because both occupations are mainly performed by women, and women are not valued as highly as men?

On a regular risk-adjusted, selection-adjusted, cost-adjusted basis, teachers are often very well-paid.

Most people who can handle college and want to be teachers can at least start out being teachers, without going through a tough weedout process. That’s probably the equivalent of a weedout adjustment of about 200 percent. (Kids who start college aiming to be teachers are at least two times as likely to achieve their goals as premeds, pre-engineers or big-law pre-laws are.)

Teachers can typically get hired with a one-year master’s. That means they get a $2,000 to $5,000 per year income bump over a 40-year career, and maybe a $4,000 to $15,000 per year bump, if you include interest costs and the value of two extra years of ability to work full time.

K-12 teachers can go through layoffs, but they’re less likely to go through a layoff than engineers, and they don’t face the weedout process law firm associates face.

Also, big-law lawyers get big salaries, but most law school grads are lucky to make $60,000 starting out. Engineers earn high starting salaries but tend to have short careers.

So, certainly, some lawyers do very well, but many lawyers are like Saul in Better Call Saul on a bad day. They’re seriously screwed. They are much more poor than a teacher with a master’s degree and 20 years of tenure.

I think any given teacher who’s making $70,000 after 20 years is the economic equivalent of a lawyer with 20 years of experience who’s making $150,000. And, in my area, teachers with 20 years of experience and master’s degrees make $100,000 or more.

Nurses face a tougher weeding out process than teachers and, in many cases, more education bills, but they earn about as much as small-law lawyers, and they’re probably about five times less likely to face weeding out than premeds. And they face much less marketing and practice management stress than doctors, along with drastically lower education and insurance costs and loss-of-work-year losses.

So, sure, nurses earn less than doctors, but a group of 100 college freshman premeds and a group of 100 college freshman pre-nursing students will probably end up with comparable lifetime cohort earnings in the targeted profession, once you add in adjustments for weeding out risk, education costs, student loan interest, malpractice insurance costs, etc.

In other words: a neurologist might be doing great, but, if you average her after-education income with the income of five of her premed friends who failed to become doctors, that average income is probably comparable to the weedout-adjusted income of a nurse or K-12 teacher.

Over 40% of new teachers quit and join other professions within 5 years. Aspiring teachers may not be weeded out of education programs, but the first few years are a real test of endurance and ability.

Ok. And?

The PP was saying other professions have weed-out processes. So does teaching. The first 5 years are very grueling and almost half don’t make it through.