Advanced middle school math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Citation for this? I was actually present at 2022 Mathcounts Nationals and spoke with parents and coaches. And you were.....?
You're full of shit. The kids there are accelerated to the maximum level allowed by their school districts. Most areas are more willing to accelerate kids than FCPS is. That being said, even FCPS has maybe 10 kids per year taking pre-Calc and Calc in 8th. Kids would get nowhere in Mathcounts without knowing Algebra, Geometry, and even Algebra II (and number theory, and Counting and Probability, and other stuff outside of the regular math curriculum).

There is a difference between 8th grade precalc and 5th grade algebra. I would expect FCPS has even more than that in precalc. LCPS has individual schools with whole sections taking Algebra 2 w trig, though they don't let you take calculus right after that.

I've competed at nationals, no one on my team had algebra before7th grade. That was a while ago and the contest is tougher now(though the top student scored 12 points higher than 2nd place, and 20 higher than the 5th place kid who moved up to 1st.) Even this year, I know several kids in Virginia who nearly made nationals last year and thus a decent chance this year, none had algebra before 6th in school. I think you are giving too much weight to the kids you saw, and the majority are not taking algebra in 5th grade. There are a bunch of states where 30 score is enough to advance, and some even 20.

Your information is out of date. BothMathcounts and AMC 10/12 cranked up the difficulty in the last 5 years in a way that, for better or worse, favors more highly accelerated kids. There also are more schools permitting hyper acceleration than ever before.

You did move the goalpost there. The original assertion was that a kid taking Algebra I in 7th and geometry in 8th could be competitive in VA. They simply can’t be. A kid doing Algebra in 6th and then doubling up later is competitive. A kid stuck learning nothing in school but hyper accelerated at AoPS (like many FCPS kids) could be competitive. A kid who hasn’t even finished geometry would have no chance.

My observation was that every kid at Nationals fit into one of these categories. 1. Hyper accelerated at school. 2. Bored and wasting time in school math but hyper accelerated at AoPS. 3. Representing a weak, non competitive state.

Since we are on this topic (which is somewhat farther than OP's original question), many of the top 50 kids (and certainly most if not all of the countdown round qualifiers) are also USAMO/USAJMO qualifiers. No way they qualify and do well in those if they aren't hyperaccelerated at school (or they are homeschooled) or at AOPS. Indeed Mathcounts is approaching AMC-10 (Q1-15) in difficulty according to my kid (who made Nationals and JMO last year in 7th). School algebra 1/2 or even Geometry is just the beginning for these contests, especially if speed is paramount.

So how do your kid (and perhaps other DCs that are aiming for MathCounts nationals or JMO in middle school) get the math courses tailored to their level? Are they taking the alg2/trig/calc and high school math contests courses at AoPS and settling with being bored for 1 hour a day in middle school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Citation for this? I was actually present at 2022 Mathcounts Nationals and spoke with parents and coaches. And you were.....?
You're full of shit. The kids there are accelerated to the maximum level allowed by their school districts. Most areas are more willing to accelerate kids than FCPS is. That being said, even FCPS has maybe 10 kids per year taking pre-Calc and Calc in 8th. Kids would get nowhere in Mathcounts without knowing Algebra, Geometry, and even Algebra II (and number theory, and Counting and Probability, and other stuff outside of the regular math curriculum).

There is a difference between 8th grade precalc and 5th grade algebra. I would expect FCPS has even more than that in precalc. LCPS has individual schools with whole sections taking Algebra 2 w trig, though they don't let you take calculus right after that.

I've competed at nationals, no one on my team had algebra before7th grade. That was a while ago and the contest is tougher now(though the top student scored 12 points higher than 2nd place, and 20 higher than the 5th place kid who moved up to 1st.) Even this year, I know several kids in Virginia who nearly made nationals last year and thus a decent chance this year, none had algebra before 6th in school. I think you are giving too much weight to the kids you saw, and the majority are not taking algebra in 5th grade. There are a bunch of states where 30 score is enough to advance, and some even 20.

Your information is out of date. BothMathcounts and AMC 10/12 cranked up the difficulty in the last 5 years in a way that, for better or worse, favors more highly accelerated kids. There also are more schools permitting hyper acceleration than ever before.

You did move the goalpost there. The original assertion was that a kid taking Algebra I in 7th and geometry in 8th could be competitive in VA. They simply can’t be. A kid doing Algebra in 6th and then doubling up later is competitive. A kid stuck learning nothing in school but hyper accelerated at AoPS (like many FCPS kids) could be competitive. A kid who hasn’t even finished geometry would have no chance.

My observation was that every kid at Nationals fit into one of these categories. 1. Hyper accelerated at school. 2. Bored and wasting time in school math but hyper accelerated at AoPS. 3. Representing a weak, non competitive state.

Since we are on this topic (which is somewhat farther than OP's original question), many of the top 50 kids (and certainly most if not all of the countdown round qualifiers) are also USAMO/USAJMO qualifiers. No way they qualify and do well in those if they aren't hyperaccelerated at school (or they are homeschooled) or at AOPS. Indeed Mathcounts is approaching AMC-10 (Q1-15) in difficulty according to my kid (who made Nationals and JMO last year in 7th). School algebra 1/2 or even Geometry is just the beginning for these contests, especially if speed is paramount.

So how do your kid (and perhaps other DCs that are aiming for MathCounts nationals or JMO in middle school) get the math courses tailored to their level? Are they taking the alg2/trig/calc and high school math contests courses at AoPS and settling with being bored for 1 hour a day in middle school?

AoPS etc / home study

MathCounts and JMO are algebra and geometry. Algebra 2 and trig aren't in contests until high school.

But yeah, kids who are ether top 500 in the country for this grade, don't worry about school math class. No school can keep up with the amount of outside enrichment needed for hyperacelleration and more importantly hyper *enrichment*. Mathematically gifted kids breeze through school math without need of teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Citation for this? I was actually present at 2022 Mathcounts Nationals and spoke with parents and coaches. And you were.....?
You're full of shit. The kids there are accelerated to the maximum level allowed by their school districts. Most areas are more willing to accelerate kids than FCPS is. That being said, even FCPS has maybe 10 kids per year taking pre-Calc and Calc in 8th. Kids would get nowhere in Mathcounts without knowing Algebra, Geometry, and even Algebra II (and number theory, and Counting and Probability, and other stuff outside of the regular math curriculum).

There is a difference between 8th grade precalc and 5th grade algebra. I would expect FCPS has even more than that in precalc. LCPS has individual schools with whole sections taking Algebra 2 w trig, though they don't let you take calculus right after that.

I've competed at nationals, no one on my team had algebra before7th grade. That was a while ago and the contest is tougher now(though the top student scored 12 points higher than 2nd place, and 20 higher than the 5th place kid who moved up to 1st.) Even this year, I know several kids in Virginia who nearly made nationals last year and thus a decent chance this year, none had algebra before 6th in school. I think you are giving too much weight to the kids you saw, and the majority are not taking algebra in 5th grade. There are a bunch of states where 30 score is enough to advance, and some even 20.

Your information is out of date. BothMathcounts and AMC 10/12 cranked up the difficulty in the last 5 years in a way that, for better or worse, favors more highly accelerated kids. There also are more schools permitting hyper acceleration than ever before.

You did move the goalpost there. The original assertion was that a kid taking Algebra I in 7th and geometry in 8th could be competitive in VA. They simply can’t be. A kid doing Algebra in 6th and then doubling up later is competitive. A kid stuck learning nothing in school but hyper accelerated at AoPS (like many FCPS kids) could be competitive. A kid who hasn’t even finished geometry would have no chance.

My observation was that every kid at Nationals fit into one of these categories. 1. Hyper accelerated at school. 2. Bored and wasting time in school math but hyper accelerated at AoPS. 3. Representing a weak, non competitive state.

Since we are on this topic (which is somewhat farther than OP's original question), many of the top 50 kids (and certainly most if not all of the countdown round qualifiers) are also USAMO/USAJMO qualifiers. No way they qualify and do well in those if they aren't hyperaccelerated at school (or they are homeschooled) or at AOPS. Indeed Mathcounts is approaching AMC-10 (Q1-15) in difficulty according to my kid (who made Nationals and JMO last year in 7th). School algebra 1/2 or even Geometry is just the beginning for these contests, especially if speed is paramount.

So how do your kid (and perhaps other DCs that are aiming for MathCounts nationals or JMO in middle school) get the math courses tailored to their level? Are they taking the alg2/trig/calc and high school math contests courses at AoPS and settling with being bored for 1 hour a day in middle school?

AoPS etc / home study

MathCounts and JMO are algebra and geometry. Algebra 2 and trig aren't in contests until high school.

But yeah, kids who are ether top 500 in the country for this grade, don't worry about school math class. No school can keep up with the amount of outside enrichment needed for hyperacelleration and more importantly hyper *enrichment*. Mathematically gifted kids breeze through school math without need of teacher.

An earlier poster asserted the content for these contests had been enhanced in the past few years to include more HS math. I don't know if this is true but it wouldn't surprise me since they've been getting increasingly more challenging over the past 20 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Citation for this? I was actually present at 2022 Mathcounts Nationals and spoke with parents and coaches. And you were.....?
You're full of shit. The kids there are accelerated to the maximum level allowed by their school districts. Most areas are more willing to accelerate kids than FCPS is. That being said, even FCPS has maybe 10 kids per year taking pre-Calc and Calc in 8th. Kids would get nowhere in Mathcounts without knowing Algebra, Geometry, and even Algebra II (and number theory, and Counting and Probability, and other stuff outside of the regular math curriculum).

There is a difference between 8th grade precalc and 5th grade algebra. I would expect FCPS has even more than that in precalc. LCPS has individual schools with whole sections taking Algebra 2 w trig, though they don't let you take calculus right after that.

I've competed at nationals, no one on my team had algebra before7th grade. That was a while ago and the contest is tougher now(though the top student scored 12 points higher than 2nd place, and 20 higher than the 5th place kid who moved up to 1st.) Even this year, I know several kids in Virginia who nearly made nationals last year and thus a decent chance this year, none had algebra before 6th in school. I think you are giving too much weight to the kids you saw, and the majority are not taking algebra in 5th grade. There are a bunch of states where 30 score is enough to advance, and some even 20.

Your information is out of date. BothMathcounts and AMC 10/12 cranked up the difficulty in the last 5 years in a way that, for better or worse, favors more highly accelerated kids. There also are more schools permitting hyper acceleration than ever before.

You did move the goalpost there. The original assertion was that a kid taking Algebra I in 7th and geometry in 8th could be competitive in VA. They simply can’t be. A kid doing Algebra in 6th and then doubling up later is competitive. A kid stuck learning nothing in school but hyper accelerated at AoPS (like many FCPS kids) could be competitive. A kid who hasn’t even finished geometry would have no chance.

My observation was that every kid at Nationals fit into one of these categories. 1. Hyper accelerated at school. 2. Bored and wasting time in school math but hyper accelerated at AoPS. 3. Representing a weak, non competitive state.

Since we are on this topic (which is somewhat farther than OP's original question), many of the top 50 kids (and certainly most if not all of the countdown round qualifiers) are also USAMO/USAJMO qualifiers. No way they qualify and do well in those if they aren't hyperaccelerated at school (or they are homeschooled) or at AOPS. Indeed Mathcounts is approaching AMC-10 (Q1-15) in difficulty according to my kid (who made Nationals and JMO last year in 7th). School algebra 1/2 or even Geometry is just the beginning for these contests, especially if speed is paramount.

So how do your kid (and perhaps other DCs that are aiming for MathCounts nationals or JMO in middle school) get the math courses tailored to their level? Are they taking the alg2/trig/calc and high school math contests courses at AoPS and settling with being bored for 1 hour a day in middle school?

AoPS etc / home study

MathCounts and JMO are algebra and geometry. Algebra 2 and trig aren't in contests until high school.

But yeah, kids who are ether top 500 in the country for this grade, don't worry about school math class. No school can keep up with the amount of outside enrichment needed for hyperacelleration and more importantly hyper *enrichment*. Mathematically gifted kids breeze through school math without need of teacher.

Mathcounts doesn't have Algebra 2 or trig but AIME (necessary to qualify for JMO) certainly has Alg 2 and trig questions. But the larger point stands as these top kids breeze through school math and are often taking AP Calc in 9th grade (or even 8th).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Citation for this? I was actually present at 2022 Mathcounts Nationals and spoke with parents and coaches. And you were.....?
You're full of shit. The kids there are accelerated to the maximum level allowed by their school districts. Most areas are more willing to accelerate kids than FCPS is. That being said, even FCPS has maybe 10 kids per year taking pre-Calc and Calc in 8th. Kids would get nowhere in Mathcounts without knowing Algebra, Geometry, and even Algebra II (and number theory, and Counting and Probability, and other stuff outside of the regular math curriculum).

There is a difference between 8th grade precalc and 5th grade algebra. I would expect FCPS has even more than that in precalc. LCPS has individual schools with whole sections taking Algebra 2 w trig, though they don't let you take calculus right after that.

I've competed at nationals, no one on my team had algebra before7th grade. That was a while ago and the contest is tougher now(though the top student scored 12 points higher than 2nd place, and 20 higher than the 5th place kid who moved up to 1st.) Even this year, I know several kids in Virginia who nearly made nationals last year and thus a decent chance this year, none had algebra before 6th in school. I think you are giving too much weight to the kids you saw, and the majority are not taking algebra in 5th grade. There are a bunch of states where 30 score is enough to advance, and some even 20.

Your information is out of date. BothMathcounts and AMC 10/12 cranked up the difficulty in the last 5 years in a way that, for better or worse, favors more highly accelerated kids. There also are more schools permitting hyper acceleration than ever before.

You did move the goalpost there. The original assertion was that a kid taking Algebra I in 7th and geometry in 8th could be competitive in VA. They simply can’t be. A kid doing Algebra in 6th and then doubling up later is competitive. A kid stuck learning nothing in school but hyper accelerated at AoPS (like many FCPS kids) could be competitive. A kid who hasn’t even finished geometry would have no chance.

My observation was that every kid at Nationals fit into one of these categories. 1. Hyper accelerated at school. 2. Bored and wasting time in school math but hyper accelerated at AoPS. 3. Representing a weak, non competitive state.

Since we are on this topic (which is somewhat farther than OP's original question), many of the top 50 kids (and certainly most if not all of the countdown round qualifiers) are also USAMO/USAJMO qualifiers. No way they qualify and do well in those if they aren't hyperaccelerated at school (or they are homeschooled) or at AOPS. Indeed Mathcounts is approaching AMC-10 (Q1-15) in difficulty according to my kid (who made Nationals and JMO last year in 7th). School algebra 1/2 or even Geometry is just the beginning for these contests, especially if speed is paramount.

So how do your kid (and perhaps other DCs that are aiming for MathCounts nationals or JMO in middle school) get the math courses tailored to their level? Are they taking the alg2/trig/calc and high school math contests courses at AoPS and settling with being bored for 1 hour a day in middle school?

Actually, they are doing pre-Calculus now in 8th grade and work on contest problems and proofs on their own. The discussion groups on AoPS are quite active and apparently more fun than taking a class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

MathCounts and JMO are algebra and geometry. Algebra 2 and trig aren't in contests until high school.

That's not entirely true. While all of the problems can be solved using just algebra and geometry (and also with a firm knowledge of counting& probability as well as number theory), some of the most challenging problems can be more easily and quickly solved using trig, matrices, or even calculus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Citation for this? I was actually present at 2022 Mathcounts Nationals and spoke with parents and coaches. And you were.....?
You're full of shit. The kids there are accelerated to the maximum level allowed by their school districts. Most areas are more willing to accelerate kids than FCPS is. That being said, even FCPS has maybe 10 kids per year taking pre-Calc and Calc in 8th. Kids would get nowhere in Mathcounts without knowing Algebra, Geometry, and even Algebra II (and number theory, and Counting and Probability, and other stuff outside of the regular math curriculum).

There is a difference between 8th grade precalc and 5th grade algebra. I would expect FCPS has even more than that in precalc. LCPS has individual schools with whole sections taking Algebra 2 w trig, though they don't let you take calculus right after that.

I've competed at nationals, no one on my team had algebra before7th grade. That was a while ago and the contest is tougher now(though the top student scored 12 points higher than 2nd place, and 20 higher than the 5th place kid who moved up to 1st.) Even this year, I know several kids in Virginia who nearly made nationals last year and thus a decent chance this year, none had algebra before 6th in school. I think you are giving too much weight to the kids you saw, and the majority are not taking algebra in 5th grade. There are a bunch of states where 30 score is enough to advance, and some even 20.

Your information is out of date. BothMathcounts and AMC 10/12 cranked up the difficulty in the last 5 years in a way that, for better or worse, favors more highly accelerated kids. There also are more schools permitting hyper acceleration than ever before.

You did move the goalpost there. The original assertion was that a kid taking Algebra I in 7th and geometry in 8th could be competitive in VA. They simply can’t be. A kid doing Algebra in 6th and then doubling up later is competitive. A kid stuck learning nothing in school but hyper accelerated at AoPS (like many FCPS kids) could be competitive. A kid who hasn’t even finished geometry would have no chance.

My observation was that every kid at Nationals fit into one of these categories. 1. Hyper accelerated at school. 2. Bored and wasting time in school math but hyper accelerated at AoPS. 3. Representing a weak, non competitive state.

Since we are on this topic (which is somewhat farther than OP's original question), many of the top 50 kids (and certainly most if not all of the countdown round qualifiers) are also USAMO/USAJMO qualifiers. No way they qualify and do well in those if they aren't hyperaccelerated at school (or they are homeschooled) or at AOPS. Indeed Mathcounts is approaching AMC-10 (Q1-15) in difficulty according to my kid (who made Nationals and JMO last year in 7th). School algebra 1/2 or even Geometry is just the beginning for these contests, especially if speed is paramount.

So how do your kid (and perhaps other DCs that are aiming for MathCounts nationals or JMO in middle school) get the math courses tailored to their level? Are they taking the alg2/trig/calc and high school math contests courses at AoPS and settling with being bored for 1 hour a day in middle school?

AoPS etc / home study

MathCounts and JMO are algebra and geometry. Algebra 2 and trig aren't in contests until high school.

But yeah, kids who are ether top 500 in the country for this grade, don't worry about school math class. No school can keep up with the amount of outside enrichment needed for hyperacelleration and more importantly hyper *enrichment*. Mathematically gifted kids breeze through school math without need of teacher.

Mathcounts doesn't have Algebra 2 or trig but AIME (necessary to qualify for JMO) certainly has Alg 2 and trig questions. But the larger point stands as these top kids breeze through school math and are often taking AP Calc in 9th grade (or even 8th).

How are they allowed to do that? Even if a child magically perfectly knew all of math, I'm not aware of any policy that would allow them to take algebra 1 before 7th grade, geometry before 8th, algebra 2 before 9th, etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Citation for this? I was actually present at 2022 Mathcounts Nationals and spoke with parents and coaches. And you were.....?
You're full of shit. The kids there are accelerated to the maximum level allowed by their school districts. Most areas are more willing to accelerate kids than FCPS is. That being said, even FCPS has maybe 10 kids per year taking pre-Calc and Calc in 8th. Kids would get nowhere in Mathcounts without knowing Algebra, Geometry, and even Algebra II (and number theory, and Counting and Probability, and other stuff outside of the regular math curriculum).

There is a difference between 8th grade precalc and 5th grade algebra. I would expect FCPS has even more than that in precalc. LCPS has individual schools with whole sections taking Algebra 2 w trig, though they don't let you take calculus right after that.

I've competed at nationals, no one on my team had algebra before7th grade. That was a while ago and the contest is tougher now(though the top student scored 12 points higher than 2nd place, and 20 higher than the 5th place kid who moved up to 1st.) Even this year, I know several kids in Virginia who nearly made nationals last year and thus a decent chance this year, none had algebra before 6th in school. I think you are giving too much weight to the kids you saw, and the majority are not taking algebra in 5th grade. There are a bunch of states where 30 score is enough to advance, and some even 20.

Your information is out of date. BothMathcounts and AMC 10/12 cranked up the difficulty in the last 5 years in a way that, for better or worse, favors more highly accelerated kids. There also are more schools permitting hyper acceleration than ever before.

You did move the goalpost there. The original assertion was that a kid taking Algebra I in 7th and geometry in 8th could be competitive in VA. They simply can’t be. A kid doing Algebra in 6th and then doubling up later is competitive. A kid stuck learning nothing in school but hyper accelerated at AoPS (like many FCPS kids) could be competitive. A kid who hasn’t even finished geometry would have no chance.

My observation was that every kid at Nationals fit into one of these categories. 1. Hyper accelerated at school. 2. Bored and wasting time in school math but hyper accelerated at AoPS. 3. Representing a weak, non competitive state.

Since we are on this topic (which is somewhat farther than OP's original question), many of the top 50 kids (and certainly most if not all of the countdown round qualifiers) are also USAMO/USAJMO qualifiers. No way they qualify and do well in those if they aren't hyperaccelerated at school (or they are homeschooled) or at AOPS. Indeed Mathcounts is approaching AMC-10 (Q1-15) in difficulty according to my kid (who made Nationals and JMO last year in 7th). School algebra 1/2 or even Geometry is just the beginning for these contests, especially if speed is paramount.

So how do your kid (and perhaps other DCs that are aiming for MathCounts nationals or JMO in middle school) get the math courses tailored to their level? Are they taking the alg2/trig/calc and high school math contests courses at AoPS and settling with being bored for 1 hour a day in middle school?

Actually, they are doing pre-Calculus now in 8th grade and work on contest problems and proofs on their own. The discussion groups on AoPS are quite active and apparently more fun than taking a class.

What did their school math pathway look like?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Citation for this? I was actually present at 2022 Mathcounts Nationals and spoke with parents and coaches. And you were.....?
You're full of shit. The kids there are accelerated to the maximum level allowed by their school districts. Most areas are more willing to accelerate kids than FCPS is. That being said, even FCPS has maybe 10 kids per year taking pre-Calc and Calc in 8th. Kids would get nowhere in Mathcounts without knowing Algebra, Geometry, and even Algebra II (and number theory, and Counting and Probability, and other stuff outside of the regular math curriculum).

There is a difference between 8th grade precalc and 5th grade algebra. I would expect FCPS has even more than that in precalc. LCPS has individual schools with whole sections taking Algebra 2 w trig, though they don't let you take calculus right after that.

I've competed at nationals, no one on my team had algebra before7th grade. That was a while ago and the contest is tougher now(though the top student scored 12 points higher than 2nd place, and 20 higher than the 5th place kid who moved up to 1st.) Even this year, I know several kids in Virginia who nearly made nationals last year and thus a decent chance this year, none had algebra before 6th in school. I think you are giving too much weight to the kids you saw, and the majority are not taking algebra in 5th grade. There are a bunch of states where 30 score is enough to advance, and some even 20.

Your information is out of date. BothMathcounts and AMC 10/12 cranked up the difficulty in the last 5 years in a way that, for better or worse, favors more highly accelerated kids. There also are more schools permitting hyper acceleration than ever before.

You did move the goalpost there. The original assertion was that a kid taking Algebra I in 7th and geometry in 8th could be competitive in VA. They simply can’t be. A kid doing Algebra in 6th and then doubling up later is competitive. A kid stuck learning nothing in school but hyper accelerated at AoPS (like many FCPS kids) could be competitive. A kid who hasn’t even finished geometry would have no chance.

My observation was that every kid at Nationals fit into one of these categories. 1. Hyper accelerated at school. 2. Bored and wasting time in school math but hyper accelerated at AoPS. 3. Representing a weak, non competitive state.

Since we are on this topic (which is somewhat farther than OP's original question), many of the top 50 kids (and certainly most if not all of the countdown round qualifiers) are also USAMO/USAJMO qualifiers. No way they qualify and do well in those if they aren't hyperaccelerated at school (or they are homeschooled) or at AOPS. Indeed Mathcounts is approaching AMC-10 (Q1-15) in difficulty according to my kid (who made Nationals and JMO last year in 7th). School algebra 1/2 or even Geometry is just the beginning for these contests, especially if speed is paramount.

So how do your kid (and perhaps other DCs that are aiming for MathCounts nationals or JMO in middle school) get the math courses tailored to their level? Are they taking the alg2/trig/calc and high school math contests courses at AoPS and settling with being bored for 1 hour a day in middle school?

Actually, they are doing pre-Calculus now in 8th grade and work on contest problems and proofs on their own. The discussion groups on AoPS are quite active and apparently more fun than taking a class.

What did their school math pathway look like?

Geo in 6th, Alg 1 & Alg2 in 7th, Pre-Calc in 8th. We know at least one other kid (in the FCPS system) who is taking Diff. Eq in 9th (having finished Multivariable Calc in 8th and AP Calc in 7th) and several who are on the path to taking AP Calc in 9th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Citation for this? I was actually present at 2022 Mathcounts Nationals and spoke with parents and coaches. And you were.....?
You're full of shit. The kids there are accelerated to the maximum level allowed by their school districts. Most areas are more willing to accelerate kids than FCPS is. That being said, even FCPS has maybe 10 kids per year taking pre-Calc and Calc in 8th. Kids would get nowhere in Mathcounts without knowing Algebra, Geometry, and even Algebra II (and number theory, and Counting and Probability, and other stuff outside of the regular math curriculum).

There is a difference between 8th grade precalc and 5th grade algebra. I would expect FCPS has even more than that in precalc. LCPS has individual schools with whole sections taking Algebra 2 w trig, though they don't let you take calculus right after that.

I've competed at nationals, no one on my team had algebra before7th grade. That was a while ago and the contest is tougher now(though the top student scored 12 points higher than 2nd place, and 20 higher than the 5th place kid who moved up to 1st.) Even this year, I know several kids in Virginia who nearly made nationals last year and thus a decent chance this year, none had algebra before 6th in school. I think you are giving too much weight to the kids you saw, and the majority are not taking algebra in 5th grade. There are a bunch of states where 30 score is enough to advance, and some even 20.

Your information is out of date. BothMathcounts and AMC 10/12 cranked up the difficulty in the last 5 years in a way that, for better or worse, favors more highly accelerated kids. There also are more schools permitting hyper acceleration than ever before.

You did move the goalpost there. The original assertion was that a kid taking Algebra I in 7th and geometry in 8th could be competitive in VA. They simply can’t be. A kid doing Algebra in 6th and then doubling up later is competitive. A kid stuck learning nothing in school but hyper accelerated at AoPS (like many FCPS kids) could be competitive. A kid who hasn’t even finished geometry would have no chance.

My observation was that every kid at Nationals fit into one of these categories. 1. Hyper accelerated at school. 2. Bored and wasting time in school math but hyper accelerated at AoPS. 3. Representing a weak, non competitive state.

Since we are on this topic (which is somewhat farther than OP's original question), many of the top 50 kids (and certainly most if not all of the countdown round qualifiers) are also USAMO/USAJMO qualifiers. No way they qualify and do well in those if they aren't hyperaccelerated at school (or they are homeschooled) or at AOPS. Indeed Mathcounts is approaching AMC-10 (Q1-15) in difficulty according to my kid (who made Nationals and JMO last year in 7th). School algebra 1/2 or even Geometry is just the beginning for these contests, especially if speed is paramount.

So how do your kid (and perhaps other DCs that are aiming for MathCounts nationals or JMO in middle school) get the math courses tailored to their level? Are they taking the alg2/trig/calc and high school math contests courses at AoPS and settling with being bored for 1 hour a day in middle school?

Actually, they are doing pre-Calculus now in 8th grade and work on contest problems and proofs on their own. The discussion groups on AoPS are quite active and apparently more fun than taking a class.

What did their school math pathway look like?

Geo in 6th, Alg 1 & Alg2 in 7th, Pre-Calc in 8th. We know at least one other kid (in the FCPS system) who is taking Diff. Eq in 9th (having finished Multivariable Calc in 8th and AP Calc in 7th) and several who are on the path to taking AP Calc in 9th.

Is Geo in 6th virtual, or in person? What about alg2/precalc? And how did you broach the topic with the principal/AART/teacher? I thought that FCPS was loathe to advance students beyond the regular "advanced" math track.

I ask because My DC is several years ahead of the AAP curriculum and is bored to tears in class. We told him to just use that time to practice... But if there's a better route, I'd love to hear it. TIA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:
Citation for this? I was actually present at 2022 Mathcounts Nationals and spoke with parents and coaches. And you were.....?
You're full of shit. The kids there are accelerated to the maximum level allowed by their school districts. Most areas are more willing to accelerate kids than FCPS is. That being said, even FCPS has maybe 10 kids per year taking pre-Calc and Calc in 8th. Kids would get nowhere in Mathcounts without knowing Algebra, Geometry, and even Algebra II (and number theory, and Counting and Probability, and other stuff outside of the regular math curriculum).

There is a difference between 8th grade precalc and 5th grade algebra. I would expect FCPS has even more than that in precalc. LCPS has individual schools with whole sections taking Algebra 2 w trig, though they don't let you take calculus right after that.

I've competed at nationals, no one on my team had algebra before7th grade. That was a while ago and the contest is tougher now(though the top student scored 12 points higher than 2nd place, and 20 higher than the 5th place kid who moved up to 1st.) Even this year, I know several kids in Virginia who nearly made nationals last year and thus a decent chance this year, none had algebra before 6th in school. I think you are giving too much weight to the kids you saw, and the majority are not taking algebra in 5th grade. There are a bunch of states where 30 score is enough to advance, and some even 20.

Your information is out of date. BothMathcounts and AMC 10/12 cranked up the difficulty in the last 5 years in a way that, for better or worse, favors more highly accelerated kids. There also are more schools permitting hyper acceleration than ever before.

You did move the goalpost there. The original assertion was that a kid taking Algebra I in 7th and geometry in 8th could be competitive in VA. They simply can’t be. A kid doing Algebra in 6th and then doubling up later is competitive. A kid stuck learning nothing in school but hyper accelerated at AoPS (like many FCPS kids) could be competitive. A kid who hasn’t even finished geometry would have no chance.

My observation was that every kid at Nationals fit into one of these categories. 1. Hyper accelerated at school. 2. Bored and wasting time in school math but hyper accelerated at AoPS. 3. Representing a weak, non competitive state.

Since we are on this topic (which is somewhat farther than OP's original question), many of the top 50 kids (and certainly most if not all of the countdown round qualifiers) are also USAMO/USAJMO qualifiers. No way they qualify and do well in those if they aren't hyperaccelerated at school (or they are homeschooled) or at AOPS. Indeed Mathcounts is approaching AMC-10 (Q1-15) in difficulty according to my kid (who made Nationals and JMO last year in 7th). School algebra 1/2 or even Geometry is just the beginning for these contests, especially if speed is paramount.

So how do your kid (and perhaps other DCs that are aiming for MathCounts nationals or JMO in middle school) get the math courses tailored to their level? Are they taking the alg2/trig/calc and high school math contests courses at AoPS and settling with being bored for 1 hour a day in middle school?

Actually, they are doing pre-Calculus now in 8th grade and work on contest problems and proofs on their own. The discussion groups on AoPS are quite active and apparently more fun than taking a class.

What did their school math pathway look like?

Geo in 6th, Alg 1 & Alg2 in 7th, Pre-Calc in 8th. We know at least one other kid (in the FCPS system) who is taking Diff. Eq in 9th (having finished Multivariable Calc in 8th and AP Calc in 7th) and several who are on the path to taking AP Calc in 9th.

Is Geo in 6th virtual, or in person? What about alg2/precalc? And how did you broach the topic with the principal/AART/teacher? I thought that FCPS was loathe to advance students beyond the regular "advanced" math track.

I ask because My DC is several years ahead of the AAP curriculum and is bored to tears in class. We told him to just use that time to practice... But if there's a better route, I'd love to hear it. TIA.

FCPS is very rigid with skipping kids ahead.

If your kid is currently in K-3 and has some evidence of being far ahead of the curriculum, you can ask your principal to test your child and see if skipping ahead in math would be appropriate. Very few kids are skipped ahead like this, and you'd probably need something like iready scores that are 3+ grade levels ahead. If your child is in 4th, scored above a 145 on CogAT Q, scored above a 575 on the SOL, and has the support of the teacher, your child can be skipped up to 6th grade AAP math when in 5th. Then, your child could take Algebra I in 6th if they meet the IAAT and SOL thresholds. Both this and the previous case require the principal to be willing to skip your child. Some won't do so, no matter how ahead your kid is.

If your kid transfers into FCPS from another school and has already taken Algebra I or beyond, they can take the next class in the sequence.

If none of those apply to your child, FCPS will not let them skip ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Citation for this? I was actually present at 2022 Mathcounts Nationals and spoke with parents and coaches. And you were.....?
You're full of shit. The kids there are accelerated to the maximum level allowed by their school districts. Most areas are more willing to accelerate kids than FCPS is. That being said, even FCPS has maybe 10 kids per year taking pre-Calc and Calc in 8th. Kids would get nowhere in Mathcounts without knowing Algebra, Geometry, and even Algebra II (and number theory, and Counting and Probability, and other stuff outside of the regular math curriculum).

There is a difference between 8th grade precalc and 5th grade algebra. I would expect FCPS has even more than that in precalc. LCPS has individual schools with whole sections taking Algebra 2 w trig, though they don't let you take calculus right after that.

I've competed at nationals, no one on my team had algebra before7th grade. That was a while ago and the contest is tougher now(though the top student scored 12 points higher than 2nd place, and 20 higher than the 5th place kid who moved up to 1st.) Even this year, I know several kids in Virginia who nearly made nationals last year and thus a decent chance this year, none had algebra before 6th in school. I think you are giving too much weight to the kids you saw, and the majority are not taking algebra in 5th grade. There are a bunch of states where 30 score is enough to advance, and some even 20.

Your information is out of date. BothMathcounts and AMC 10/12 cranked up the difficulty in the last 5 years in a way that, for better or worse, favors more highly accelerated kids. There also are more schools permitting hyper acceleration than ever before.

You did move the goalpost there. The original assertion was that a kid taking Algebra I in 7th and geometry in 8th could be competitive in VA. They simply can’t be. A kid doing Algebra in 6th and then doubling up later is competitive. A kid stuck learning nothing in school but hyper accelerated at AoPS (like many FCPS kids) could be competitive. A kid who hasn’t even finished geometry would have no chance.

My observation was that every kid at Nationals fit into one of these categories. 1. Hyper accelerated at school. 2. Bored and wasting time in school math but hyper accelerated at AoPS. 3. Representing a weak, non competitive state.

Since we are on this topic (which is somewhat farther than OP's original question), many of the top 50 kids (and certainly most if not all of the countdown round qualifiers) are also USAMO/USAJMO qualifiers. No way they qualify and do well in those if they aren't hyperaccelerated at school (or they are homeschooled) or at AOPS. Indeed Mathcounts is approaching AMC-10 (Q1-15) in difficulty according to my kid (who made Nationals and JMO last year in 7th). School algebra 1/2 or even Geometry is just the beginning for these contests, especially if speed is paramount.

So how do your kid (and perhaps other DCs that are aiming for MathCounts nationals or JMO in middle school) get the math courses tailored to their level? Are they taking the alg2/trig/calc and high school math contests courses at AoPS and settling with being bored for 1 hour a day in middle school?

Actually, they are doing pre-Calculus now in 8th grade and work on contest problems and proofs on their own. The discussion groups on AoPS are quite active and apparently more fun than taking a class.

What did their school math pathway look like?

Geo in 6th, Alg 1 & Alg2 in 7th, Pre-Calc in 8th. We know at least one other kid (in the FCPS system) who is taking Diff. Eq in 9th (having finished Multivariable Calc in 8th and AP Calc in 7th) and several who are on the path to taking AP Calc in 9th.

Was 5th "normal" AAP math (6th grade)? If so, how did you convince the school to allow a jump past algebra 1 to geometry?

[Anonymous]

+Ditto for the other accelerated kids you know. Also, how did you meet? I imagine it's not something your bring up to random moms you've recently met

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Citation for this? I was actually present at 2022 Mathcounts Nationals and spoke with parents and coaches. And you were.....?
You're full of shit. The kids there are accelerated to the maximum level allowed by their school districts. Most areas are more willing to accelerate kids than FCPS is. That being said, even FCPS has maybe 10 kids per year taking pre-Calc and Calc in 8th. Kids would get nowhere in Mathcounts without knowing Algebra, Geometry, and even Algebra II (and number theory, and Counting and Probability, and other stuff outside of the regular math curriculum).

There is a difference between 8th grade precalc and 5th grade algebra. I would expect FCPS has even more than that in precalc. LCPS has individual schools with whole sections taking Algebra 2 w trig, though they don't let you take calculus right after that.

I've competed at nationals, no one on my team had algebra before7th grade. That was a while ago and the contest is tougher now(though the top student scored 12 points higher than 2nd place, and 20 higher than the 5th place kid who moved up to 1st.) Even this year, I know several kids in Virginia who nearly made nationals last year and thus a decent chance this year, none had algebra before 6th in school. I think you are giving too much weight to the kids you saw, and the majority are not taking algebra in 5th grade. There are a bunch of states where 30 score is enough to advance, and some even 20.

Your information is out of date. BothMathcounts and AMC 10/12 cranked up the difficulty in the last 5 years in a way that, for better or worse, favors more highly accelerated kids. There also are more schools permitting hyper acceleration than ever before.

You did move the goalpost there. The original assertion was that a kid taking Algebra I in 7th and geometry in 8th could be competitive in VA. They simply can’t be. A kid doing Algebra in 6th and then doubling up later is competitive. A kid stuck learning nothing in school but hyper accelerated at AoPS (like many FCPS kids) could be competitive. A kid who hasn’t even finished geometry would have no chance.

My observation was that every kid at Nationals fit into one of these categories. 1. Hyper accelerated at school. 2. Bored and wasting time in school math but hyper accelerated at AoPS. 3. Representing a weak, non competitive state.

Since we are on this topic (which is somewhat farther than OP's original question), many of the top 50 kids (and certainly most if not all of the countdown round qualifiers) are also USAMO/USAJMO qualifiers. No way they qualify and do well in those if they aren't hyperaccelerated at school (or they are homeschooled) or at AOPS. Indeed Mathcounts is approaching AMC-10 (Q1-15) in difficulty according to my kid (who made Nationals and JMO last year in 7th). School algebra 1/2 or even Geometry is just the beginning for these contests, especially if speed is paramount.

So how do your kid (and perhaps other DCs that are aiming for MathCounts nationals or JMO in middle school) get the math courses tailored to their level? Are they taking the alg2/trig/calc and high school math contests courses at AoPS and settling with being bored for 1 hour a day in middle school?

Actually, they are doing pre-Calculus now in 8th grade and work on contest problems and proofs on their own. The discussion groups on AoPS are quite active and apparently more fun than taking a class.

What did their school math pathway look like?

Geo in 6th, Alg 1 & Alg2 in 7th, Pre-Calc in 8th. We know at least one other kid (in the FCPS system) who is taking Diff. Eq in 9th (having finished Multivariable Calc in 8th and AP Calc in 7th) and several who are on the path to taking AP Calc in 9th.

Was 5th "normal" AAP math (6th grade)? If so, how did you convince the school to allow a jump past algebra 1 to geometry?

We are not in FCPS. Our school allowed us to jump to Geometry in 6th during the pandemic, then realized that Algebra 1 is required for graduation. They let DC take Alg 1 and 2 in 7th (Alg 1 was a placeholder). preCalc is online because the school doesn't offer it and scheduling transportation to a nearby high school was too complicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+Ditto for the other accelerated kids you know. Also, how did you meet? I imagine it's not something your bring up to random moms you've recently met

Kids find out all kinds of things when they meet up during math competitions (ARML/PUMAC/HMMT) and DC found out that his friend (now in TJ) is doing Diff Eq. in 9th. Most of what I know is from meeting other parents at these competitions or from my DC. Many of these accelerated kids are not from this area.