Are therapists doing unmasked therapy for kids with anxiety about covid stuff yet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP who doesn’t live in DC and this thread was an eye opener for me. I cannot comprehend that anyone anywhere is still requiring masks for pediatric therapy of any kind. The rest of the world has been done with this for so long.

It’s wild! Some DC friends have shared How sick their young kids have gotten from the vaccine. I’m dumbfounded why they would even be giving their 3 year old the vaccine given 1) the child is healthy 2). The vaccine doesn’t prevent transmission and 3) kids usually have mild cases to begin with. I assume it’s just the area and lack of perception. Sorry but I don’t feel bad for you that your child got ill from an unnecessary vaccine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of your anxious kids are traumatized and refuse to get in cars because they're required to wear seat belts or sit in car seats?

See how this works?

Seat belts don’t inhibit children with speech issues from learning to talk. Seat belts aren’t used as fear porn or to silence and create control. See how this works.

You've just given your bias away. Fear porn? Create control? Yea, you're unhinged. Did you storm the Capitol too?

Yup. Found the imbecile Trumper. They’ll deny it, but too late. They already gave themselves away.

So you’re a trump supporter and imbecile if you don’t want to require children to wear cloth masks for eternity even though they are ineffective? Guess I’m a Trump supporter then!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of your anxious kids are traumatized and refuse to get in cars because they're required to wear seat belts or sit in car seats?

See how this works?

A mask is nothing like a seatbelt. The proper analogy would be trying to teach a kid to ride a bike with their shoelaces tied together.

Are you always this absurdly melodramatic, or only on DCUM?

TBH I think the people claiming that kids need to be masked while receiving speech therapy and other therapies are the melodramatic ones, at this point. Ask yourself if you think this is actually happening anywhere else than SF and DC right now. In the entire world.

Yes. It is. There are other places in the US where indoor mask mandates in all public places are still accepted and enforced.

Where? Please support with links.

Sure.

---

First, ASHA's current position (updated February 2022 and still standing) is that it is recommended to use masks for providing services even in this context. "ASHA places a priority, first and foremost, on health and safety." They are also on record that "we are not aware of any studies that have directly assessed the long-term impact on speech and language development when young children interact with adults who are wearing facemasks. However, there are studies demonstrating that children can tune into different communication cues and gestures when an adult’s mouth is not visible. Typically developing children can recognize single words, identify emotions, and attend to voices when they see photos of adults wearing masks." In weighing the levels of evidence, risks, and benefits, they come out on the side of mask-wearing.

Using Masks for In-Person Service Delivery During the COVID-19 Pandemic: What to Consider
https://www.asha.org/practice/using-masks-for-in-person-service-delivery-during-covid-19-what-to-consider/

---

Second, Native American tribes across the country are still enforcing mask mandates on tribal lands. (I trust we are not going to state that these don't count as "in the US" or not as US citizens. They are, in effect, dual citizens within the US) They are at least as relevant to DC as SF was when cited above, and they are certainly in the world.

This is from August 2021, but it is still true (see below):
Native American tribes enforce mask mandates regardless of state bans
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/31/native-american-tribes-mask-mandates-schools

But tribal leaders have continued to make sure students always have access to masks and understand the importance of them. Earlier this month, the education department’s Facebook page featured a message from Whitlow wishing students a safe and healthy school year.

She then added: “Please do your best to protect your homes and communities by wearing a mask.”

For example, the most recent Navajo Nation COVID-19 "Safe Schools" guidance from earlier this year continues to mandate the use of masks in schools and for school-based services.
https://navajoreopening.navajo-nsn.gov/COVID-19-Safe-Schools-Framework

From May 2022, NDOH: Mask mandate still in effect on Navajo
https://navajotimes.com/ae/health/ndoh-mask-mandate-still-in-effect-on-navajo/

Per existing Public Health Emergency order 2021-007, individuals fully and partially vaccinated or those unvaccinated must continue to wear a mask in public on the Navajo Nation — that means everyone.

“Several states have lifted even more restrictions that helped to prevent more spread of COVID-19, but we are keeping the mask mandate and social distancing protocols in place on the Navajo Nation,” President Jonathan Nez said on Monday.

--

It's not just tribal lands, though. Other places with specific contexts are still requiring masks and following ASHA guidance. I'm interested to see the response you make to these links provided as asked, first, before exploring other areas. Should that be requested, of course.

[Anonymous]

This has gone sideways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of your anxious kids are traumatized and refuse to get in cars because they're required to wear seat belts or sit in car seats?

See how this works?

A mask is nothing like a seatbelt. The proper analogy would be trying to teach a kid to ride a bike with their shoelaces tied together.

Are you always this absurdly melodramatic, or only on DCUM?

TBH I think the people claiming that kids need to be masked while receiving speech therapy and other therapies are the melodramatic ones, at this point. Ask yourself if you think this is actually happening anywhere else than SF and DC right now. In the entire world.

Yes. It is. There are other places in the US where indoor mask mandates in all public places are still accepted and enforced.

Where? Please support with links.

Sure.

---

First, ASHA's current position (updated February 2022 and still standing) is that it is recommended to use masks for providing services even in this context. "ASHA places a priority, first and foremost, on health and safety." They are also on record that "we are not aware of any studies that have directly assessed the long-term impact on speech and language development when young children interact with adults who are wearing facemasks. However, there are studies demonstrating that children can tune into different communication cues and gestures when an adult’s mouth is not visible. Typically developing children can recognize single words, identify emotions, and attend to voices when they see photos of adults wearing masks." In weighing the levels of evidence, risks, and benefits, they come out on the side of mask-wearing.

Using Masks for In-Person Service Delivery During the COVID-19 Pandemic: What to Consider
https://www.asha.org/practice/using-masks-for-in-person-service-delivery-during-covid-19-what-to-consider/

---

Second, Native American tribes across the country are still enforcing mask mandates on tribal lands. (I trust we are not going to state that these don't count as "in the US" or not as US citizens. They are, in effect, dual citizens within the US) They are at least as relevant to DC as SF was when cited above, and they are certainly in the world.

This is from August 2021, but it is still true (see below):
Native American tribes enforce mask mandates regardless of state bans
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/31/native-american-tribes-mask-mandates-schools

But tribal leaders have continued to make sure students always have access to masks and understand the importance of them. Earlier this month, the education department’s Facebook page featured a message from Whitlow wishing students a safe and healthy school year.

She then added: “Please do your best to protect your homes and communities by wearing a mask.”

For example, the most recent Navajo Nation COVID-19 "Safe Schools" guidance from earlier this year continues to mandate the use of masks in schools and for school-based services.
https://navajoreopening.navajo-nsn.gov/COVID-19-Safe-Schools-Framework

From May 2022, NDOH: Mask mandate still in effect on Navajo
https://navajotimes.com/ae/health/ndoh-mask-mandate-still-in-effect-on-navajo/

Per existing Public Health Emergency order 2021-007, individuals fully and partially vaccinated or those unvaccinated must continue to wear a mask in public on the Navajo Nation — that means everyone.

“Several states have lifted even more restrictions that helped to prevent more spread of COVID-19, but we are keeping the mask mandate and social distancing protocols in place on the Navajo Nation,” President Jonathan Nez said on Monday.

--

It's not just tribal lands, though. Other places with specific contexts are still requiring masks and following ASHA guidance. I'm interested to see the response you make to these links provided as asked, first, before exploring other areas. Should that be requested, of course.

The ASHA guidance is a joke and seriously harms their credibility as an organization.

Navajo Country from March 2022 is all you can come up with? Lol.

[Anonymous]

The ongoing governmental guidance is what I came up with, yes: the official reopening statement of schools for this year. Typically it is not readdressed unless it is readdressed as changes.

But if those people don't count as you make proclamations about the US -- fair enough. That's pretty clear. Thanks for being straightforward about your views.

[Anonymous]

How quickly this thread has shifted from an apparently reasonable concern voiced by a parent to unsupported ranting about masks, deliberate mischaracterizations of comments, and “alternative facts”.

Here’s an important takeaway: Professionals, particularly those in clinical professions, will do their best to protect their families, their clients, and themselves in these uncertain, challenging and changing times. No amount of ranting on the part of people who want to politicize public health issues will change this. What it will change, is that professionals will increasingly limit their practices, retire, and leave their professions for other options — in the face of the selfish expectations that therapists and other health professionals put themselves at risk for the supposed needs (both actual and imagined) of those who seek their services. In many areas, well trained clinicians, particularly those who specialize in working with children, are at a premium. Look for that to get worse as the many risks associated with working in these types of professions far outweigh any possible benefits, and as the realities of capitalism far outweigh the kinds of values that often lead people to pursue these professions at considerable cost to themselves .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The ongoing governmental guidance is what I came up with, yes: the official reopening statement of schools for this year. Typically it is not readdressed unless it is readdressed as changes.

But if those people don't count as you make proclamations about the US -- fair enough. That's pretty clear. Thanks for being straightforward about your views.

ASHA is not the government.

And the fact that all you can come up with is Navajo Country (not updated for 8 months!) just reinforces the fact that indoor mask mandates are extremely uncommon right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How quickly this thread has shifted from an apparently reasonable concern voiced by a parent to unsupported ranting about masks, deliberate mischaracterizations of comments, and “alternative facts”.

Here’s an important takeaway: Professionals, particularly those in clinical professions, will do their best to protect their families, their clients, and themselves in these uncertain, challenging and changing times. No amount of ranting on the part of people who want to politicize public health issues will change this. What it will change, is that professionals will increasingly limit their practices, retire, and leave their professions for other options — in the face of the selfish expectations that therapists and other health professionals put themselves at risk for the supposed needs (both actual and imagined) of those who seek their services. In many areas, well trained clinicians, particularly those who specialize in working with children, are at a premium. Look for that to get worse as the many risks associated with working in these types of professions far outweigh any possible benefits, and as the realities of capitalism far outweigh the kinds of values that often lead people to pursue these professions at considerable cost to themselves .

Right, SN parents are completely helpless to assert what they think is best for their kids. No criticizing teachers or therapists because we are powerless.

BTW the problem with your explanation is that *nobody else* is taking that moralistic view of masking and covid precautions, except in a very few “progressive” metro areas, where somehow deference to adult professionals who work with kids is more important than our kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How quickly this thread has shifted from an apparently reasonable concern voiced by a parent to unsupported ranting about masks, deliberate mischaracterizations of comments, and “alternative facts”.

Here’s an important takeaway: Professionals, particularly those in clinical professions, will do their best to protect their families, their clients, and themselves in these uncertain, challenging and changing times. No amount of ranting on the part of people who want to politicize public health issues will change this. What it will change, is that professionals will increasingly limit their practices, retire, and leave their professions for other options — in the face of the selfish expectations that therapists and other health professionals put themselves at risk for the supposed needs (both actual and imagined) of those who seek their services. In many areas, well trained clinicians, particularly those who specialize in working with children, are at a premium. Look for that to get worse as the many risks associated with working in these types of professions far outweigh any possible benefits, and as the realities of capitalism far outweigh the kinds of values that often lead people to pursue these professions at considerable cost to themselves .

Ok so do you think OP can reasonably ask for an unmasked therapist for her child? Can a parent with a speech delayed child ask for an unmasked therapist? Autism? Or are we not allowed to because this fails to demonstrate our understanding that our kids are just bothers and “risks” and we need to accept whatever we get. (Nevermind that we are usually paying your fees out of pocket, or have a legal right to the services under IDEA.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How quickly this thread has shifted from an apparently reasonable concern voiced by a parent to unsupported ranting about masks, deliberate mischaracterizations of comments, and “alternative facts”.

Here’s an important takeaway: Professionals, particularly those in clinical professions, will do their best to protect their families, their clients, and themselves in these uncertain, challenging and changing times. No amount of ranting on the part of people who want to politicize public health issues will change this. What it will change, is that professionals will increasingly limit their practices, retire, and leave their professions for other options — in the face of the selfish expectations that therapists and other health professionals put themselves at risk for the supposed needs (both actual and imagined) of those who seek their services. In many areas, well trained clinicians, particularly those who specialize in working with children, are at a premium. Look for that to get worse as the many risks associated with working in these types of professions far outweigh any possible benefits, and as the realities of capitalism far outweigh the kinds of values that often lead people to pursue these professions at considerable cost to themselves .

Ok so do you think OP can reasonably ask for an unmasked therapist for her child? Can a parent with a speech delayed child ask for an unmasked therapist? Autism? Or are we not allowed to because this fails to demonstrate our understanding that our kids are just bothers and “risks” and we need to accept whatever we get. (Nevermind that we are usually paying your fees out of pocket, or have a legal right to the services under IDEA.)

You can ask but you need to respect the therapists decision. You don’t have the legal right to tell them not to mask or refuse to mask on private property if they ask. Op does not like it she needs to switch therapists but Covid is probably not the reason for the issues.

[Anonymous]

If op has a thoughtful child willing to mask, why would you discourage them or refuse to have them mask. Maybe part of this is parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of your anxious kids are traumatized and refuse to get in cars because they're required to wear seat belts or sit in car seats?

See how this works?

A mask is nothing like a seatbelt. The proper analogy would be trying to teach a kid to ride a bike with their shoelaces tied together.

Are you always this absurdly melodramatic, or only on DCUM?

TBH I think the people claiming that kids need to be masked while receiving speech therapy and other therapies are the melodramatic ones, at this point. Ask yourself if you think this is actually happening anywhere else than SF and DC right now. In the entire world.

Yes. It is. There are other places in the US where indoor mask mandates in all public places are still accepted and enforced.

Where? Please support with links.

Sure.

---

First, ASHA's current position (updated February 2022 and still standing) is that it is recommended to use masks for providing services even in this context. "ASHA places a priority, first and foremost, on health and safety." They are also on record that "we are not aware of any studies that have directly assessed the long-term impact on speech and language development when young children interact with adults who are wearing facemasks. However, there are studies demonstrating that children can tune into different communication cues and gestures when an adult’s mouth is not visible. Typically developing children can recognize single words, identify emotions, and attend to voices when they see photos of adults wearing masks." In weighing the levels of evidence, risks, and benefits, they come out on the side of mask-wearing.

Using Masks for In-Person Service Delivery During the COVID-19 Pandemic: What to Consider
https://www.asha.org/practice/using-masks-for-in-person-service-delivery-during-covid-19-what-to-consider/

---

Second, Native American tribes across the country are still enforcing mask mandates on tribal lands. (I trust we are not going to state that these don't count as "in the US" or not as US citizens. They are, in effect, dual citizens within the US) They are at least as relevant to DC as SF was when cited above, and they are certainly in the world.

This is from August 2021, but it is still true (see below):
Native American tribes enforce mask mandates regardless of state bans
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/31/native-american-tribes-mask-mandates-schools

But tribal leaders have continued to make sure students always have access to masks and understand the importance of them. Earlier this month, the education department’s Facebook page featured a message from Whitlow wishing students a safe and healthy school year.

She then added: “Please do your best to protect your homes and communities by wearing a mask.”

For example, the most recent Navajo Nation COVID-19 "Safe Schools" guidance from earlier this year continues to mandate the use of masks in schools and for school-based services.
https://navajoreopening.navajo-nsn.gov/COVID-19-Safe-Schools-Framework

From May 2022, NDOH: Mask mandate still in effect on Navajo
https://navajotimes.com/ae/health/ndoh-mask-mandate-still-in-effect-on-navajo/

Per existing Public Health Emergency order 2021-007, individuals fully and partially vaccinated or those unvaccinated must continue to wear a mask in public on the Navajo Nation — that means everyone.

“Several states have lifted even more restrictions that helped to prevent more spread of COVID-19, but we are keeping the mask mandate and social distancing protocols in place on the Navajo Nation,” President Jonathan Nez said on Monday.

--

It's not just tribal lands, though. Other places with specific contexts are still requiring masks and following ASHA guidance. I'm interested to see the response you make to these links provided as asked, first, before exploring other areas. Should that be requested, of course.

Thank you for this post! DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How quickly this thread has shifted from an apparently reasonable concern voiced by a parent to unsupported ranting about masks, deliberate mischaracterizations of comments, and “alternative facts”.

Here’s an important takeaway: Professionals, particularly those in clinical professions, will do their best to protect their families, their clients, and themselves in these uncertain, challenging and changing times. No amount of ranting on the part of people who want to politicize public health issues will change this. What it will change, is that professionals will increasingly limit their practices, retire, and leave their professions for other options — in the face of the selfish expectations that therapists and other health professionals put themselves at risk for the supposed needs (both actual and imagined) of those who seek their services. In many areas, well trained clinicians, particularly those who specialize in working with children, are at a premium. Look for that to get worse as the many risks associated with working in these types of professions far outweigh any possible benefits, and as the realities of capitalism far outweigh the kinds of values that often lead people to pursue these professions at considerable cost to themselves .

Ok so do you think OP can reasonably ask for an unmasked therapist for her child? Can a parent with a speech delayed child ask for an unmasked therapist? Autism? Or are we not allowed to because this fails to demonstrate our understanding that our kids are just bothers and “risks” and we need to accept whatever we get. (Nevermind that we are usually paying your fees out of pocket, or have a legal right to the services under IDEA.)

Yes, I think OP can reasonably ask for this. I also think that it’s more than reasonable for a therapist to refuse this request— for multiple reasons. While you are “allowed” to seek out services that you feel are appropriate, people providing those services are not only “allowed “ but ethically required to maintain environments that reduce health risks to others as well as to themselves. Clients don’t get to randomly dictate those standards. “Paying out of pocket” doesn’t change this.

While you MAY have “a legal right to services under IDEA”, there are limits to those “rights”. For practical purposes, since so many of the posters maintain that wanting to wear a mask when providing therapy is an anomaly, the simplest thing would be to find a therapist who doesn’t wear a mask. An individual patient has absolutely no right to services from a particular provider, and zero right to forcing an individual provider to alter their standards of care based on a particular client’s personal whims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ongoing governmental guidance is what I came up with, yes: the official reopening statement of schools for this year. Typically it is not readdressed unless it is readdressed as changes.

But if those people don't count as you make proclamations about the US -- fair enough. That's pretty clear. Thanks for being straightforward about your views.

ASHA is not the government.

And the fact that all you can come up with is Navajo Country (not updated for 8 months!) just reinforces the fact that indoor mask mandates are extremely uncommon right now.

Right, you didn't click all the links.

It's not uncommon -- it's just that for you, these people don't count. What if I posted links to a state school for the deaf's policy? They are also not in your worldview as people who count. There are a thousand ways to criticize in an accurate and tenable way, but "literally nobody else in the world" is doing it isn't one of them -- unless those people don't count as people.

Why not ask why SLPs aren't using masks with visible plastic windows, so the child can see their lips (if they aren't)? Or reference the CDC allowances in green and yellow risk zones? But don't say nobody else is doing it when, in fact, many are, even if they aren't people who count to you.