How Do We Fix The Mental Health Crisis Among Affluent Teens?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading this article in The Atlantic about the suicides at Palo Alto High School:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/12/the-silicon-valley-suicides/413140/

It seems like living in a pressure cooker full of wealthy, well-educated parents in a highly academic environment is a major factor in poor mental health among teenagers. I remember reading a sociological study showing that depression, anxiety, and drug abuse among teenagers plotted to their SES status was like a horseshoe -- most common among wealthy/UMC and poor teens (for very different reasons), but least common among the middle-middle class.

Anecdotally, from DD's private, it seems like almost half of the kids we know are on medications and see a therapist or psychiatrist on a regular basis. The stress and pressure just seem nuts to me, and the constant judgement and competition seem unhealthy for teenagers.

Are there any ways that we as parents can fix this? Pull our kids out of private and put them in an economically diverse public? Move to the Midwest? Insist that our kids don't have to take the most rigorous classes available to them? Be okay with them going to UMD or a SLAC ranked below the Top 20 rather than an Ivy? Put them in therapy with an intense cycle of medications?

I recommend The Price of Privilege: How Parental Pressure and Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of Disconnected and Unhappy Kids by Madeline Levine.

I am UMC (HHI of $800k in Richmond) and your suggestions about economically diverse publics and not stressing about the most rigorous path are my philosophy. I attended an uber-competitive high school and was getting four hours of sleep a night in 10th grade. Then I went to a fairly highly ranked (back-up for Ivies) college and it was easy because my high school was so hard. I don't know that this gained me much advantage in life . . . I already had so many advantages. It did mean that I had rarely interacted with people who weren't at least solidly middle class.

So we're not doing that with our kids. They attend Title 1 city schools. None of our middle schools are fully accredited but guess what . . . they're just schools where lots of great things are happening. Our kids are curious and driven and caring and when we had to decide if we were going to make our 6th grader take Spanish (the only language offered) or the elected they really wanted, we went with the elective even knowing it could hurt high school application chances. We're fine with our zoned school if none of the application schools work out.

My kids are going to enter adulthood with resources and connections and life experiences thanks to their family situation, regardless of where they go to school and how rigorous it is. They will also be more able to relate to people who come from different backgrounds, and not in the empathy-tourism way that private schools do when they adopt an inner city school or whatever.

If you are at all interested in throwing off this constant parental anxiety that one false move on our part may screw our kids up forever, I think that's a worthwhile journey to take. With our income, our kids are ahead of almost every other human on the planet already. I don't know how to teach my kids what's important while throwing them into a maelstrom of what's not important (materialism, perfectionism, competitiveness for competitiveness' sake, etc.). Of course I want my kids to have fulfilling careers that pay the bills, but I also want to teach them -- and model -- that once your basic needs are met, more money doesn't make you happier. It's literally just, more money, more problems unless you can keep the perspective that everything beyond X is gravy rather than recalibrating your "needs" to meet your income every time your income increases. And it's much easier to do that when your neighbors, classmates, and friends represent a wide variety of backgrounds rather than all UMC strivers.

Talk is cheap. Show your kids what you value by how you live your life and structure theirs. If you surround yourself with a bunch of helicopter parents who just want to hang out at the country club all the time, then you will absorb their values and anxieties whether you want to or not. And this is a serious question . . . if the childhood you provide for your kids is all "pay to play" ($$$ to join the country club, $$$ to send them to school), then your kid has to strive for that income or else they'll feel like they're letting down their own kids, right? They won't have any concept of what it's like to go to public school or the neighborhood pool or whatever, and they'll feel like those things are "less than." So there goes any career that might be highly fulfilling like social work or teaching, but which doesn't pay enough to sustain that lifestyle. (Maybe this is why so many grandparents pay private school tuition, lol. . . .recognition that they gave their kids champagne tastes but only set them up to have a beer budget.)

I think you can have this attitude because, by your own statement, you and your family have connections such that your kids will be fine.

Many who are UMC/MC don't have that connection, and many are just one generation removed from coming from a low income family background. IMO, your attitude about education, what college they go to would be very different if your background is different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For one, you could stop trying to fix everything for your kids from a young age.

Best response ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have teen relatives in the Silicon Valley. They seem to be raising themselves, and they are very rough around the edges. Their parents both work very long hours. But it's so expensive to live there they have no choice. They get home from work at 8 p.m. and go right back to work at home. Worse than DC area in terms of the quiet sense of desperation and money pressures. Everyone is so focused on money and job status x100 vs. the DMV. I could not live there. It's stressful just going there to visit family on a vacation. I can just feel the stress without asking about it. My blood pressure goes down when we leave.

This is truly tragic, especially with the escalating fentanyl epidemic thanks to our open borders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have teen relatives in the Silicon Valley. They seem to be raising themselves, and they are very rough around the edges. Their parents both work very long hours. But it's so expensive to live there they have no choice. They get home from work at 8 p.m. and go right back to work at home. Worse than DC area in terms of the quiet sense of desperation and money pressures. Everyone is so focused on money and job status x100 vs. the DMV. I could not live there. It's stressful just going there to visit family on a vacation. I can just feel the stress without asking about it. My blood pressure goes down when we leave.

This is truly tragic, especially with the escalating fentanyl epidemic thanks to our open borders.

This is like a Right Wing Talking Points Mad Lib, and roughly as accurate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading this article in The Atlantic about the suicides at Palo Alto High School:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/12/the-silicon-valley-suicides/413140/

It seems like living in a pressure cooker full of wealthy, well-educated parents in a highly academic environment is a major factor in poor mental health among teenagers. I remember reading a sociological study showing that depression, anxiety, and drug abuse among teenagers plotted to their SES status was like a horseshoe -- most common among wealthy/UMC and poor teens (for very different reasons), but least common among the middle-middle class.

Anecdotally, from DD's private, it seems like almost half of the kids we know are on medications and see a therapist or psychiatrist on a regular basis. The stress and pressure just seem nuts to me, and the constant judgement and competition seem unhealthy for teenagers.

Are there any ways that we as parents can fix this? Pull our kids out of private and put them in an economically diverse public? Move to the Midwest? Insist that our kids don't have to take the most rigorous classes available to them? Be okay with them going to UMD or a SLAC ranked below the Top 20 rather than an Ivy? Put them in therapy with an intense cycle of medications?

I recommend The Price of Privilege: How Parental Pressure and Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of Disconnected and Unhappy Kids by Madeline Levine.

I am UMC (HHI of $800k in Richmond) and your suggestions about economically diverse publics and not stressing about the most rigorous path are my philosophy. I attended an uber-competitive high school and was getting four hours of sleep a night in 10th grade. Then I went to a fairly highly ranked (back-up for Ivies) college and it was easy because my high school was so hard. I don't know that this gained me much advantage in life . . . I already had so many advantages. It did mean that I had rarely interacted with people who weren't at least solidly middle class.

So we're not doing that with our kids. They attend Title 1 city schools. None of our middle schools are fully accredited but guess what . . . they're just schools where lots of great things are happening. Our kids are curious and driven and caring and when we had to decide if we were going to make our 6th grader take Spanish (the only language offered) or the elected they really wanted, we went with the elective even knowing it could hurt high school application chances. We're fine with our zoned school if none of the application schools work out.

My kids are going to enter adulthood with resources and connections and life experiences thanks to their family situation, regardless of where they go to school and how rigorous it is. They will also be more able to relate to people who come from different backgrounds, and not in the empathy-tourism way that private schools do when they adopt an inner city school or whatever.

If you are at all interested in throwing off this constant parental anxiety that one false move on our part may screw our kids up forever, I think that's a worthwhile journey to take. With our income, our kids are ahead of almost every other human on the planet already. I don't know how to teach my kids what's important while throwing them into a maelstrom of what's not important (materialism, perfectionism, competitiveness for competitiveness' sake, etc.). Of course I want my kids to have fulfilling careers that pay the bills, but I also want to teach them -- and model -- that once your basic needs are met, more money doesn't make you happier. It's literally just, more money, more problems unless you can keep the perspective that everything beyond X is gravy rather than recalibrating your "needs" to meet your income every time your income increases. And it's much easier to do that when your neighbors, classmates, and friends represent a wide variety of backgrounds rather than all UMC strivers.

Talk is cheap. Show your kids what you value by how you live your life and structure theirs. If you surround yourself with a bunch of helicopter parents who just want to hang out at the country club all the time, then you will absorb their values and anxieties whether you want to or not. And this is a serious question . . . if the childhood you provide for your kids is all "pay to play" ($$$ to join the country club, $$$ to send them to school), then your kid has to strive for that income or else they'll feel like they're letting down their own kids, right? They won't have any concept of what it's like to go to public school or the neighborhood pool or whatever, and they'll feel like those things are "less than." So there goes any career that might be highly fulfilling like social work or teaching, but which doesn't pay enough to sustain that lifestyle. (Maybe this is why so many grandparents pay private school tuition, lol. . . .recognition that they gave their kids champagne tastes but only set them up to have a beer budget.)

I would say you don’t have teens yet. Come back in 7 years and you’ll be able to comment then. Maybe this works. I wonder what you’ll do if one of your kids wants to go to a pressure cooker boarding school. Tell them no?

I'm sorry but I have to laugh because my kids know precisely zero people who attend boarding schools. Where would they even get this idea?

Our teen will be deciding on high school soon enough, with options ranging from the often overlooked zoned school which has a great specialty program to 100% specialty schools to the two local governors' schools. I suspect teen will have little trouble getting in anywhere they want to go, but we will have serious conversations about the pressure . . . is the pay off worth the cost?

Try to imagine that your kids only know a couple of people with similar economic situations. One kid's best friend lives in a 900 sq. ft. rental home that's less than $1k a month and has one bathroom. Another kid's best friend does have doctors with a second home for parents, but all their kids have gone public all the way. Our church has a huge range of situations from multiple homeless people to a few people with fancy homes. They know some people who do private for middle school or high school, but this is always because they didn't get in to the public option they wanted.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that it's difficult to imagine someone not wanting what you want. I am fully aware that if I lived in the "right" neighborhood, went to the "right" church, joined the "right" club, I'd probably want all that stuff too . . . we're wired to want to belong. You have to be mindful about what you surround yourself (and your kids) with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ban social media.

And cell phones.

Being constantly connected is a mental drain for an adult, let alone those still learning to control those faculties.


We all lived and thrived without both; now look what has happened with their presence.


Signed, someone in tech.

That's not the solution and as a parent you monitor/control them. Here's an idea.. as an adult/parent, step up and parent your kids. Stop looking at the schools and external factors to fix your kids.

What a weirdly combative response to a totally reasonable post. Don’t worry, no one’s coming for your cell phone.

At least it wasn't just me thinking that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading this article in The Atlantic about the suicides at Palo Alto High School:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/12/the-silicon-valley-suicides/413140/

It seems like living in a pressure cooker full of wealthy, well-educated parents in a highly academic environment is a major factor in poor mental health among teenagers. I remember reading a sociological study showing that depression, anxiety, and drug abuse among teenagers plotted to their SES status was like a horseshoe -- most common among wealthy/UMC and poor teens (for very different reasons), but least common among the middle-middle class.

Anecdotally, from DD's private, it seems like almost half of the kids we know are on medications and see a therapist or psychiatrist on a regular basis. The stress and pressure just seem nuts to me, and the constant judgement and competition seem unhealthy for teenagers.

Are there any ways that we as parents can fix this? Pull our kids out of private and put them in an economically diverse public? Move to the Midwest? Insist that our kids don't have to take the most rigorous classes available to them? Be okay with them going to UMD or a SLAC ranked below the Top 20 rather than an Ivy? Put them in therapy with an intense cycle of medications?

I recommend The Price of Privilege: How Parental Pressure and Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of Disconnected and Unhappy Kids by Madeline Levine.

I am UMC (HHI of $800k in Richmond) and your suggestions about economically diverse publics and not stressing about the most rigorous path are my philosophy. I attended an uber-competitive high school and was getting four hours of sleep a night in 10th grade. Then I went to a fairly highly ranked (back-up for Ivies) college and it was easy because my high school was so hard. I don't know that this gained me much advantage in life . . . I already had so many advantages. It did mean that I had rarely interacted with people who weren't at least solidly middle class.

So we're not doing that with our kids. They attend Title 1 city schools. None of our middle schools are fully accredited but guess what . . . they're just schools where lots of great things are happening. Our kids are curious and driven and caring and when we had to decide if we were going to make our 6th grader take Spanish (the only language offered) or the elected they really wanted, we went with the elective even knowing it could hurt high school application chances. We're fine with our zoned school if none of the application schools work out.

My kids are going to enter adulthood with resources and connections and life experiences thanks to their family situation, regardless of where they go to school and how rigorous it is. They will also be more able to relate to people who come from different backgrounds, and not in the empathy-tourism way that private schools do when they adopt an inner city school or whatever.

If you are at all interested in throwing off this constant parental anxiety that one false move on our part may screw our kids up forever, I think that's a worthwhile journey to take. With our income, our kids are ahead of almost every other human on the planet already. I don't know how to teach my kids what's important while throwing them into a maelstrom of what's not important (materialism, perfectionism, competitiveness for competitiveness' sake, etc.). Of course I want my kids to have fulfilling careers that pay the bills, but I also want to teach them -- and model -- that once your basic needs are met, more money doesn't make you happier. It's literally just, more money, more problems unless you can keep the perspective that everything beyond X is gravy rather than recalibrating your "needs" to meet your income every time your income increases. And it's much easier to do that when your neighbors, classmates, and friends represent a wide variety of backgrounds rather than all UMC strivers.

Talk is cheap. Show your kids what you value by how you live your life and structure theirs. If you surround yourself with a bunch of helicopter parents who just want to hang out at the country club all the time, then you will absorb their values and anxieties whether you want to or not. And this is a serious question . . . if the childhood you provide for your kids is all "pay to play" ($$$ to join the country club, $$$ to send them to school), then your kid has to strive for that income or else they'll feel like they're letting down their own kids, right? They won't have any concept of what it's like to go to public school or the neighborhood pool or whatever, and they'll feel like those things are "less than." So there goes any career that might be highly fulfilling like social work or teaching, but which doesn't pay enough to sustain that lifestyle. (Maybe this is why so many grandparents pay private school tuition, lol. . . .recognition that they gave their kids champagne tastes but only set them up to have a beer budget.)

I think you can have this attitude because, by your own statement, you and your family have connections such that your kids will be fine.

Many who are UMC/MC don't have that connection, and many are just one generation removed from coming from a low income family background. IMO, your attitude about education, what college they go to would be very different if your background is different.

Definitely agree, and I'd like to believe that the universe works itself out, and that if I'm not hoarding opportunity for my kids, maybe it will find its way to someone who really needs it. Also I have neurotypical kids who are motivated and pretty low maintenance. I'm encouraging people in my situation to rethink things, but not anyone for whom the shoe doesn't fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading this article in The Atlantic about the suicides at Palo Alto High School:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/12/the-silicon-valley-suicides/413140/

It seems like living in a pressure cooker full of wealthy, well-educated parents in a highly academic environment is a major factor in poor mental health among teenagers. I remember reading a sociological study showing that depression, anxiety, and drug abuse among teenagers plotted to their SES status was like a horseshoe -- most common among wealthy/UMC and poor teens (for very different reasons), but least common among the middle-middle class.

Anecdotally, from DD's private, it seems like almost half of the kids we know are on medications and see a therapist or psychiatrist on a regular basis. The stress and pressure just seem nuts to me, and the constant judgement and competition seem unhealthy for teenagers.

Are there any ways that we as parents can fix this? Pull our kids out of private and put them in an economically diverse public? Move to the Midwest? Insist that our kids don't have to take the most rigorous classes available to them? Be okay with them going to UMD or a SLAC ranked below the Top 20 rather than an Ivy? Put them in therapy with an intense cycle of medications?

I recommend The Price of Privilege: How Parental Pressure and Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of Disconnected and Unhappy Kids by Madeline Levine.

I am UMC (HHI of $800k in Richmond) and your suggestions about economically diverse publics and not stressing about the most rigorous path are my philosophy. I attended an uber-competitive high school and was getting four hours of sleep a night in 10th grade. Then I went to a fairly highly ranked (back-up for Ivies) college and it was easy because my high school was so hard. I don't know that this gained me much advantage in life . . . I already had so many advantages. It did mean that I had rarely interacted with people who weren't at least solidly middle class.

So we're not doing that with our kids. They attend Title 1 city schools. None of our middle schools are fully accredited but guess what . . . they're just schools where lots of great things are happening. Our kids are curious and driven and caring and when we had to decide if we were going to make our 6th grader take Spanish (the only language offered) or the elected they really wanted, we went with the elective even knowing it could hurt high school application chances. We're fine with our zoned school if none of the application schools work out.

My kids are going to enter adulthood with resources and connections and life experiences thanks to their family situation, regardless of where they go to school and how rigorous it is. They will also be more able to relate to people who come from different backgrounds, and not in the empathy-tourism way that private schools do when they adopt an inner city school or whatever.

If you are at all interested in throwing off this constant parental anxiety that one false move on our part may screw our kids up forever, I think that's a worthwhile journey to take. With our income, our kids are ahead of almost every other human on the planet already. I don't know how to teach my kids what's important while throwing them into a maelstrom of what's not important (materialism, perfectionism, competitiveness for competitiveness' sake, etc.). Of course I want my kids to have fulfilling careers that pay the bills, but I also want to teach them -- and model -- that once your basic needs are met, more money doesn't make you happier. It's literally just, more money, more problems unless you can keep the perspective that everything beyond X is gravy rather than recalibrating your "needs" to meet your income every time your income increases. And it's much easier to do that when your neighbors, classmates, and friends represent a wide variety of backgrounds rather than all UMC strivers.

Talk is cheap. Show your kids what you value by how you live your life and structure theirs. If you surround yourself with a bunch of helicopter parents who just want to hang out at the country club all the time, then you will absorb their values and anxieties whether you want to or not. And this is a serious question . . . if the childhood you provide for your kids is all "pay to play" ($$$ to join the country club, $$$ to send them to school), then your kid has to strive for that income or else they'll feel like they're letting down their own kids, right? They won't have any concept of what it's like to go to public school or the neighborhood pool or whatever, and they'll feel like those things are "less than." So there goes any career that might be highly fulfilling like social work or teaching, but which doesn't pay enough to sustain that lifestyle. (Maybe this is why so many grandparents pay private school tuition, lol. . . .recognition that they gave their kids champagne tastes but only set them up to have a beer budget.)

I would say you don’t have teens yet. Come back in 7 years and you’ll be able to comment then. Maybe this works. I wonder what you’ll do if one of your kids wants to go to a pressure cooker boarding school. Tell them no?

I'm sorry but I have to laugh because my kids know precisely zero people who attend boarding schools. Where would they even get this idea?

Our teen will be deciding on high school soon enough, with options ranging from the often overlooked zoned school which has a great specialty program to 100% specialty schools to the two local governors' schools. I suspect teen will have little trouble getting in anywhere they want to go, but we will have serious conversations about the pressure . . . is the pay off worth the cost?

Try to imagine that your kids only know a couple of people with similar economic situations. One kid's best friend lives in a 900 sq. ft. rental home that's less than $1k a month and has one bathroom. Another kid's best friend does have doctors with a second home for parents, but all their kids have gone public all the way. Our church has a huge range of situations from multiple homeless people to a few people with fancy homes. They know some people who do private for middle school or high school, but this is always because they didn't get in to the public option they wanted.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that it's difficult to imagine someone not wanting what you want. I am fully aware that if I lived in the "right" neighborhood, went to the "right" church, joined the "right" club, I'd probably want all that stuff too . . . we're wired to want to belong. You have to be mindful about what you surround yourself (and your kids) with.

Good luck fencing in your kid. You will not succeed. Even homeschooling can’t stop a rebel kid. I’ve seen the sad parents facing their wildly partying children. Like I said, you will be in for a surprise or two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading this article in The Atlantic about the suicides at Palo Alto High School:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/12/the-silicon-valley-suicides/413140/

It seems like living in a pressure cooker full of wealthy, well-educated parents in a highly academic environment is a major factor in poor mental health among teenagers. I remember reading a sociological study showing that depression, anxiety, and drug abuse among teenagers plotted to their SES status was like a horseshoe -- most common among wealthy/UMC and poor teens (for very different reasons), but least common among the middle-middle class.

Anecdotally, from DD's private, it seems like almost half of the kids we know are on medications and see a therapist or psychiatrist on a regular basis. The stress and pressure just seem nuts to me, and the constant judgement and competition seem unhealthy for teenagers.

Are there any ways that we as parents can fix this? Pull our kids out of private and put them in an economically diverse public? Move to the Midwest? Insist that our kids don't have to take the most rigorous classes available to them? Be okay with them going to UMD or a SLAC ranked below the Top 20 rather than an Ivy? Put them in therapy with an intense cycle of medications?

I recommend The Price of Privilege: How Parental Pressure and Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of Disconnected and Unhappy Kids by Madeline Levine.

I am UMC (HHI of $800k in Richmond) and your suggestions about economically diverse publics and not stressing about the most rigorous path are my philosophy. I attended an uber-competitive high school and was getting four hours of sleep a night in 10th grade. Then I went to a fairly highly ranked (back-up for Ivies) college and it was easy because my high school was so hard. I don't know that this gained me much advantage in life . . . I already had so many advantages. It did mean that I had rarely interacted with people who weren't at least solidly middle class.

So we're not doing that with our kids. They attend Title 1 city schools. None of our middle schools are fully accredited but guess what . . . they're just schools where lots of great things are happening. Our kids are curious and driven and caring and when we had to decide if we were going to make our 6th grader take Spanish (the only language offered) or the elected they really wanted, we went with the elective even knowing it could hurt high school application chances. We're fine with our zoned school if none of the application schools work out.

My kids are going to enter adulthood with resources and connections and life experiences thanks to their family situation, regardless of where they go to school and how rigorous it is. They will also be more able to relate to people who come from different backgrounds, and not in the empathy-tourism way that private schools do when they adopt an inner city school or whatever.

If you are at all interested in throwing off this constant parental anxiety that one false move on our part may screw our kids up forever, I think that's a worthwhile journey to take. With our income, our kids are ahead of almost every other human on the planet already. I don't know how to teach my kids what's important while throwing them into a maelstrom of what's not important (materialism, perfectionism, competitiveness for competitiveness' sake, etc.). Of course I want my kids to have fulfilling careers that pay the bills, but I also want to teach them -- and model -- that once your basic needs are met, more money doesn't make you happier. It's literally just, more money, more problems unless you can keep the perspective that everything beyond X is gravy rather than recalibrating your "needs" to meet your income every time your income increases. And it's much easier to do that when your neighbors, classmates, and friends represent a wide variety of backgrounds rather than all UMC strivers.

Talk is cheap. Show your kids what you value by how you live your life and structure theirs. If you surround yourself with a bunch of helicopter parents who just want to hang out at the country club all the time, then you will absorb their values and anxieties whether you want to or not. And this is a serious question . . . if the childhood you provide for your kids is all "pay to play" ($$$ to join the country club, $$$ to send them to school), then your kid has to strive for that income or else they'll feel like they're letting down their own kids, right? They won't have any concept of what it's like to go to public school or the neighborhood pool or whatever, and they'll feel like those things are "less than." So there goes any career that might be highly fulfilling like social work or teaching, but which doesn't pay enough to sustain that lifestyle. (Maybe this is why so many grandparents pay private school tuition, lol. . . .recognition that they gave their kids champagne tastes but only set them up to have a beer budget.)

I would say you don’t have teens yet. Come back in 7 years and you’ll be able to comment then. Maybe this works. I wonder what you’ll do if one of your kids wants to go to a pressure cooker boarding school. Tell them no?

I'm sorry but I have to laugh because my kids know precisely zero people who attend boarding schools. Where would they even get this idea?

Our teen will be deciding on high school soon enough, with options ranging from the often overlooked zoned school which has a great specialty program to 100% specialty schools to the two local governors' schools. I suspect teen will have little trouble getting in anywhere they want to go, but we will have serious conversations about the pressure . . . is the pay off worth the cost?

Try to imagine that your kids only know a couple of people with similar economic situations. One kid's best friend lives in a 900 sq. ft. rental home that's less than $1k a month and has one bathroom. Another kid's best friend does have doctors with a second home for parents, but all their kids have gone public all the way. Our church has a huge range of situations from multiple homeless people to a few people with fancy homes. They know some people who do private for middle school or high school, but this is always because they didn't get in to the public option they wanted.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that it's difficult to imagine someone not wanting what you want. I am fully aware that if I lived in the "right" neighborhood, went to the "right" church, joined the "right" club, I'd probably want all that stuff too . . . we're wired to want to belong. You have to be mindful about what you surround yourself (and your kids) with.

Good luck fencing in your kid. You will not succeed. Even homeschooling can’t stop a rebel kid. I’ve seen the sad parents facing their wildly partying children. Like I said, you will be in for a surprise or two.

Now you just sound like you’re wishing ill on someone, probably because they have an 800k HHI (allegedly). -NP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading this article in The Atlantic about the suicides at Palo Alto High School:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/12/the-silicon-valley-suicides/413140/

It seems like living in a pressure cooker full of wealthy, well-educated parents in a highly academic environment is a major factor in poor mental health among teenagers. I remember reading a sociological study showing that depression, anxiety, and drug abuse among teenagers plotted to their SES status was like a horseshoe -- most common among wealthy/UMC and poor teens (for very different reasons), but least common among the middle-middle class.

Anecdotally, from DD's private, it seems like almost half of the kids we know are on medications and see a therapist or psychiatrist on a regular basis. The stress and pressure just seem nuts to me, and the constant judgement and competition seem unhealthy for teenagers.

Are there any ways that we as parents can fix this? Pull our kids out of private and put them in an economically diverse public? Move to the Midwest? Insist that our kids don't have to take the most rigorous classes available to them? Be okay with them going to UMD or a SLAC ranked below the Top 20 rather than an Ivy? Put them in therapy with an intense cycle of medications?

I recommend The Price of Privilege: How Parental Pressure and Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of Disconnected and Unhappy Kids by Madeline Levine.

I am UMC (HHI of $800k in Richmond) and your suggestions about economically diverse publics and not stressing about the most rigorous path are my philosophy. I attended an uber-competitive high school and was getting four hours of sleep a night in 10th grade. Then I went to a fairly highly ranked (back-up for Ivies) college and it was easy because my high school was so hard. I don't know that this gained me much advantage in life . . . I already had so many advantages. It did mean that I had rarely interacted with people who weren't at least solidly middle class.

So we're not doing that with our kids. They attend Title 1 city schools. None of our middle schools are fully accredited but guess what . . . they're just schools where lots of great things are happening. Our kids are curious and driven and caring and when we had to decide if we were going to make our 6th grader take Spanish (the only language offered) or the elected they really wanted, we went with the elective even knowing it could hurt high school application chances. We're fine with our zoned school if none of the application schools work out.

My kids are going to enter adulthood with resources and connections and life experiences thanks to their family situation, regardless of where they go to school and how rigorous it is. They will also be more able to relate to people who come from different backgrounds, and not in the empathy-tourism way that private schools do when they adopt an inner city school or whatever.

If you are at all interested in throwing off this constant parental anxiety that one false move on our part may screw our kids up forever, I think that's a worthwhile journey to take. With our income, our kids are ahead of almost every other human on the planet already. I don't know how to teach my kids what's important while throwing them into a maelstrom of what's not important (materialism, perfectionism, competitiveness for competitiveness' sake, etc.). Of course I want my kids to have fulfilling careers that pay the bills, but I also want to teach them -- and model -- that once your basic needs are met, more money doesn't make you happier. It's literally just, more money, more problems unless you can keep the perspective that everything beyond X is gravy rather than recalibrating your "needs" to meet your income every time your income increases. And it's much easier to do that when your neighbors, classmates, and friends represent a wide variety of backgrounds rather than all UMC strivers.

Talk is cheap. Show your kids what you value by how you live your life and structure theirs. If you surround yourself with a bunch of helicopter parents who just want to hang out at the country club all the time, then you will absorb their values and anxieties whether you want to or not. And this is a serious question . . . if the childhood you provide for your kids is all "pay to play" ($$$ to join the country club, $$$ to send them to school), then your kid has to strive for that income or else they'll feel like they're letting down their own kids, right? They won't have any concept of what it's like to go to public school or the neighborhood pool or whatever, and they'll feel like those things are "less than." So there goes any career that might be highly fulfilling like social work or teaching, but which doesn't pay enough to sustain that lifestyle. (Maybe this is why so many grandparents pay private school tuition, lol. . . .recognition that they gave their kids champagne tastes but only set them up to have a beer budget.)

You are not umc. And your parenting style, band what you model are an issue. You are extremely wealthy. UMC make 1/5 what you make.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have teen relatives in the Silicon Valley. They seem to be raising themselves, and they are very rough around the edges. Their parents both work very long hours. But it's so expensive to live there they have no choice. They get home from work at 8 p.m. and go right back to work at home. Worse than DC area in terms of the quiet sense of desperation and money pressures. Everyone is so focused on money and job status x100 vs. the DMV. I could not live there. It's stressful just going there to visit family on a vacation. I can just feel the stress without asking about it. My blood pressure goes down when we leave.

I’m in Silicon Valley and this isn’t my experience at all. But you can certainly find families like that if you look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading this article in The Atlantic about the suicides at Palo Alto High School:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/12/the-silicon-valley-suicides/413140/

It seems like living in a pressure cooker full of wealthy, well-educated parents in a highly academic environment is a major factor in poor mental health among teenagers. I remember reading a sociological study showing that depression, anxiety, and drug abuse among teenagers plotted to their SES status was like a horseshoe -- most common among wealthy/UMC and poor teens (for very different reasons), but least common among the middle-middle class.

Anecdotally, from DD's private, it seems like almost half of the kids we know are on medications and see a therapist or psychiatrist on a regular basis. The stress and pressure just seem nuts to me, and the constant judgement and competition seem unhealthy for teenagers.

Are there any ways that we as parents can fix this? Pull our kids out of private and put them in an economically diverse public? Move to the Midwest? Insist that our kids don't have to take the most rigorous classes available to them? Be okay with them going to UMD or a SLAC ranked below the Top 20 rather than an Ivy? Put them in therapy with an intense cycle of medications?

I recommend The Price of Privilege: How Parental Pressure and Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of Disconnected and Unhappy Kids by Madeline Levine.

I am UMC (HHI of $800k in Richmond) and your suggestions about economically diverse publics and not stressing about the most rigorous path are my philosophy. I attended an uber-competitive high school and was getting four hours of sleep a night in 10th grade. Then I went to a fairly highly ranked (back-up for Ivies) college and it was easy because my high school was so hard. I don't know that this gained me much advantage in life . . . I already had so many advantages. It did mean that I had rarely interacted with people who weren't at least solidly middle class.

So we're not doing that with our kids. They attend Title 1 city schools. None of our middle schools are fully accredited but guess what . . . they're just schools where lots of great things are happening. Our kids are curious and driven and caring and when we had to decide if we were going to make our 6th grader take Spanish (the only language offered) or the elected they really wanted, we went with the elective even knowing it could hurt high school application chances. We're fine with our zoned school if none of the application schools work out.

My kids are going to enter adulthood with resources and connections and life experiences thanks to their family situation, regardless of where they go to school and how rigorous it is. They will also be more able to relate to people who come from different backgrounds, and not in the empathy-tourism way that private schools do when they adopt an inner city school or whatever.

If you are at all interested in throwing off this constant parental anxiety that one false move on our part may screw our kids up forever, I think that's a worthwhile journey to take. With our income, our kids are ahead of almost every other human on the planet already. I don't know how to teach my kids what's important while throwing them into a maelstrom of what's not important (materialism, perfectionism, competitiveness for competitiveness' sake, etc.). Of course I want my kids to have fulfilling careers that pay the bills, but I also want to teach them -- and model -- that once your basic needs are met, more money doesn't make you happier. It's literally just, more money, more problems unless you can keep the perspective that everything beyond X is gravy rather than recalibrating your "needs" to meet your income every time your income increases. And it's much easier to do that when your neighbors, classmates, and friends represent a wide variety of backgrounds rather than all UMC strivers.

Talk is cheap. Show your kids what you value by how you live your life and structure theirs. If you surround yourself with a bunch of helicopter parents who just want to hang out at the country club all the time, then you will absorb their values and anxieties whether you want to or not. And this is a serious question . . . if the childhood you provide for your kids is all "pay to play" ($$$ to join the country club, $$$ to send them to school), then your kid has to strive for that income or else they'll feel like they're letting down their own kids, right? They won't have any concept of what it's like to go to public school or the neighborhood pool or whatever, and they'll feel like those things are "less than." So there goes any career that might be highly fulfilling like social work or teaching, but which doesn't pay enough to sustain that lifestyle. (Maybe this is why so many grandparents pay private school tuition, lol. . . .recognition that they gave their kids champagne tastes but only set them up to have a beer budget.)

You are not umc. And your parenting style, band what you model are an issue. You are extremely wealthy. UMC make 1/5 what you make.

+1 Your kids can do nothing and be trust-fund babies at 800K/year, and I imagine your wealthy friends will give them internships and other opportunities most kids don't have access to. It's the immigrant kids and the low-income kids for whom opportunities at good colleges can make the biggest difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am UMC (HHI of $800k in Richmond)

You lost all credibility in the first sentence.
https://www.wric.com/news/virginia-news/heres-how-much-income-it-takes-to-be-among-the-top-1-in-your-state/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am UMC (HHI of $800k in Richmond)

You lost all credibility in the first sentence.
https://www.wric.com/news/virginia-news/heres-how-much-income-it-takes-to-be-among-the-top-1-in-your-state/

That's a good point. I'll say "I'm in the top 1% from now on." That will surely land much better on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading this article in The Atlantic about the suicides at Palo Alto High School:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/12/the-silicon-valley-suicides/413140/

It seems like living in a pressure cooker full of wealthy, well-educated parents in a highly academic environment is a major factor in poor mental health among teenagers. I remember reading a sociological study showing that depression, anxiety, and drug abuse among teenagers plotted to their SES status was like a horseshoe -- most common among wealthy/UMC and poor teens (for very different reasons), but least common among the middle-middle class.

Anecdotally, from DD's private, it seems like almost half of the kids we know are on medications and see a therapist or psychiatrist on a regular basis. The stress and pressure just seem nuts to me, and the constant judgement and competition seem unhealthy for teenagers.

Are there any ways that we as parents can fix this? Pull our kids out of private and put them in an economically diverse public? Move to the Midwest? Insist that our kids don't have to take the most rigorous classes available to them? Be okay with them going to UMD or a SLAC ranked below the Top 20 rather than an Ivy? Put them in therapy with an intense cycle of medications?

I recommend The Price of Privilege: How Parental Pressure and Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of Disconnected and Unhappy Kids by Madeline Levine.

I am UMC (HHI of $800k in Richmond) and your suggestions about economically diverse publics and not stressing about the most rigorous path are my philosophy. I attended an uber-competitive high school and was getting four hours of sleep a night in 10th grade. Then I went to a fairly highly ranked (back-up for Ivies) college and it was easy because my high school was so hard. I don't know that this gained me much advantage in life . . . I already had so many advantages. It did mean that I had rarely interacted with people who weren't at least solidly middle class.

So we're not doing that with our kids. They attend Title 1 city schools. None of our middle schools are fully accredited but guess what . . . they're just schools where lots of great things are happening. Our kids are curious and driven and caring and when we had to decide if we were going to make our 6th grader take Spanish (the only language offered) or the elected they really wanted, we went with the elective even knowing it could hurt high school application chances. We're fine with our zoned school if none of the application schools work out.

My kids are going to enter adulthood with resources and connections and life experiences thanks to their family situation, regardless of where they go to school and how rigorous it is. They will also be more able to relate to people who come from different backgrounds, and not in the empathy-tourism way that private schools do when they adopt an inner city school or whatever.

If you are at all interested in throwing off this constant parental anxiety that one false move on our part may screw our kids up forever, I think that's a worthwhile journey to take. With our income, our kids are ahead of almost every other human on the planet already. I don't know how to teach my kids what's important while throwing them into a maelstrom of what's not important (materialism, perfectionism, competitiveness for competitiveness' sake, etc.). Of course I want my kids to have fulfilling careers that pay the bills, but I also want to teach them -- and model -- that once your basic needs are met, more money doesn't make you happier. It's literally just, more money, more problems unless you can keep the perspective that everything beyond X is gravy rather than recalibrating your "needs" to meet your income every time your income increases. And it's much easier to do that when your neighbors, classmates, and friends represent a wide variety of backgrounds rather than all UMC strivers.

Talk is cheap. Show your kids what you value by how you live your life and structure theirs. If you surround yourself with a bunch of helicopter parents who just want to hang out at the country club all the time, then you will absorb their values and anxieties whether you want to or not. And this is a serious question . . . if the childhood you provide for your kids is all "pay to play" ($$$ to join the country club, $$$ to send them to school), then your kid has to strive for that income or else they'll feel like they're letting down their own kids, right? They won't have any concept of what it's like to go to public school or the neighborhood pool or whatever, and they'll feel like those things are "less than." So there goes any career that might be highly fulfilling like social work or teaching, but which doesn't pay enough to sustain that lifestyle. (Maybe this is why so many grandparents pay private school tuition, lol. . . .recognition that they gave their kids champagne tastes but only set them up to have a beer budget.)

You are not umc. And your parenting style, band what you model are an issue. You are extremely wealthy. UMC make 1/5 what you make.

+1 Your kids can do nothing and be trust-fund babies at 800K/year, and I imagine your wealthy friends will give them internships and other opportunities most kids don't have access to. It's the immigrant kids and the low-income kids for whom opportunities at good colleges can make the biggest difference.

Yeah exactly. But this thread is about affluent teens, not kids overcoming systemic obstacles. I'm explaining how I don't put my affluent teens in a bubble of affluence.