Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We pushed our kids and they all turned out fine and successful.

I didn't push my kids and they all turned out fine and successful.

I don't believe for one second that you never, ever pushed your kids at something.

Not in the way OP describes. Not at all.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because my kids were not receptive to "pushing" and it backfired. Maybe your kids will practice the instrument but, mine didn't when they didn't want to play anymore. It was a huge waste of time and money. So that's one reason. Second I realized that my kids are not mini-mes and should have autonomy to chose what they want to do. And I want a relationship with them when they are older.

OP here. My kid was originally not receptive to pushing, but with appropriate punishments for not responding to my pushing (ie: taking away phone privileges, not letting them take Driver's Ed, not letting them meet up with friends on weekends, and the occasionally yelling and fighting), they became receptive. And, IME, so will 99% of kids (barring a learning disorder). Kids WILL have to be receptive if their social life is on the line.

God help any of your kids if they have a learning disorder---they would likely be a huge disappointment to you and you would not know how to deal.

Have no desire to be a "tiger parent". I'd like my kids to hit adulthood and not hate me, not wish their life was different; I want them to be happy. So forcing a kid to practice an instrument or loose their phone or not let them drive seems so controlling and unhealthy. Your kid will likely grow up and want to do things differently for their own family, but may not due to family pressures. Or they might have depression and anxiety thanks to this upbringing

OP here -- I know they won't because they know how to take responsibility for themselves instead of blaming me for all of their problems.

So you think. Culturally I suspect your kids are afraid to speak out. However once they get away to college they might really feel differently about all this. Doubt they would actually tell you “hey you are pushing to hard”. They are afraid of disappointing you by not being in math 2 levels ahead

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because my kids were not receptive to "pushing" and it backfired. Maybe your kids will practice the instrument but, mine didn't when they didn't want to play anymore. It was a huge waste of time and money. So that's one reason. Second I realized that my kids are not mini-mes and should have autonomy to chose what they want to do. And I want a relationship with them when they are older.

Yep. I let my kid choose her interests. My "pushing" is in the form of supporting her commitment to her choices (and not letting her quit something mid-class or mid-season. She has to follow through, especially if we spent money on it or it's a team or group activity where others are counting on her).

I don't demand that she play a sport. She has to be active in some way, but that could be organized sports, martial arts, running, dancing, hiking, whatever. I don't demand that she play an instrument. Her artistic side is expressed through drawing and creative writing, so that's what we encourage and support.

She has to do her homework. I don't demand that she take the hardest class in everything. She has to work on her weaker areas; it's not okay to say, "I'm bad at math" and leave it at that. We encourage her to challenge herself in her areas of interest. The best motivation is the innate sense of satisfaction that you get when you work hard at something, and don't quit when it gets hard, and see yourself improve or accomplish a goal -- that's the motivation that will carry her through life. Not me pushing and nagging.

She has obligations around the house, and "I don't want to" is not a good reason not to fold laundry or pick up her room or empty the dishwasher. Sometimes you have to do things you don't want to because those things need to be done.

I’d definitely prefer OP as a parent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We pushed our kids and they all turned out fine and successful.

I didn't push my kids and they all turned out fine and successful.

I don't believe for one second that you never, ever pushed your kids at something.

Not in the way OP describes. Not at all.

Those poor children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because my kids were not receptive to "pushing" and it backfired. Maybe your kids will practice the instrument but, mine didn't when they didn't want to play anymore. It was a huge waste of time and money. So that's one reason. Second I realized that my kids are not mini-mes and should have autonomy to chose what they want to do. And I want a relationship with them when they are older.

Yep. I let my kid choose her interests. My "pushing" is in the form of supporting her commitment to her choices (and not letting her quit something mid-class or mid-season. She has to follow through, especially if we spent money on it or it's a team or group activity where others are counting on her).

I don't demand that she play a sport. She has to be active in some way, but that could be organized sports, martial arts, running, dancing, hiking, whatever. I don't demand that she play an instrument. Her artistic side is expressed through drawing and creative writing, so that's what we encourage and support.

She has to do her homework. I don't demand that she take the hardest class in everything. She has to work on her weaker areas; it's not okay to say, "I'm bad at math" and leave it at that. We encourage her to challenge herself in her areas of interest. The best motivation is the innate sense of satisfaction that you get when you work hard at something, and don't quit when it gets hard, and see yourself improve or accomplish a goal -- that's the motivation that will carry her through life. Not me pushing and nagging.

She has obligations around the house, and "I don't want to" is not a good reason not to fold laundry or pick up her room or empty the dishwasher. Sometimes you have to do things you don't want to because those things need to be done.

I’d definitely prefer OP as a parent

Aside from playing a musical instrument and community service I don't see much difference between the two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forcing your kid into the activities you’ve decided are good for them is just a recipe for breeding resentment.

My kid isn’t interested in playing sports. Should we force her? She would rather sing, draw, paint, dance, and act. She is in activities that center around those interests.

If a kid has no natural musical talent or interest in playing an instrument, it’s pointless to force it.

You seem to want to create a robot, not a person.

OP here. So many people are bringing up the robot analogy. No, I have no desire for my kid to emulate a robot. But we value physical activity in our household -- and hence, the sports requirement. I would've been just as fine if DC decided to do dance or rock climbing or cycling instead of team sports, but they have no interest in any of those activities, which is why I forced them to join a sport at their school.

We are forcing DC to do something artistic and something physical -- the fact that it ended up being a team sport and an instrument just ended up being their choice (a middle ground).

Unless you are literally compelling somebody to do something with physical force, you're not "forcing" them to do anything so you can stop using that term. Taking away privileges if you kids don't practice their instrument isn't forcing them, it's just enforcing household expectations. They could just live without the privileges if that's what they wanted to do, right?

I think that by my standards what you're doing is well within the realm of reasonable. When I read your OP I thought it wasn't, but if you're just saying "hey, ya gotta do something creative, what will it be?" and they pick? I don't think of that as your typical UMC high-intensity pushing. I think you're not being honest about the idea that it has nothing to do with college, and you're incredibly judgmental, and you don't seem to have ever had experience with a child who has actual mental health issues so you wouldn't know what it can mean to avoid pushing for the sake of a kid's mental health. But what you're doing isn't really the kind of pushing a lot of people take issue with.

Do you have just the one kid? I have two (which is not many, I know) and I have to take really different approaches with them. One will push back hard to being pushed, either with defiance or with internal shame. It's bad, and I cannot push her at all. My job as her parent is to be the one person in her world who doesn't tell her what to do (aside from brushing teeth and getting someplace on time), because she internalizes all other pressures around her so much.

DC2 is really relaxed and responds well to pushing. I actually was very hesitant to push him with because of my experiences with DC1, but I have learned that he can take it and he just needs more external motivation. Plus he asks to be pushed. The pushing comes in the form of setting reminders for him to work out and things like that. It's pretty mild. I was also pretty demanding as his homeschool teacher. I never could have done that with DC1.

Might be “household rules” but I’d prefer not to run my house like the military or a prison. I prefer to let my kids flourish and be self motivated. And all of mine are just in different ways and at what’s level appropriate for them.

My first is my “challenging kiddo”. If they were 2nd I’d really think I was doing something wrong as the 2nd is type a self motivated go getter with no learning/adhd/anxiety/etc. doesn’t make my first born any less valuable to society or less smart. They are just smart in different ways

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We pushed our kids and they all turned out fine and successful.

I didn't push my kids and they all turned out fine and successful.

NP-So both techniques can work then...glad we settled that and don't have to have any more self-righteous rhetoric from both camps.[/quote

Dp I find the "pushers" more self-righteous than the non pushers.

That's your opinion, I find them both self-righteous in an equal way. If you lean one way you prove my point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forcing your kid into the activities you’ve decided are good for them is just a recipe for breeding resentment.

My kid isn’t interested in playing sports. Should we force her? She would rather sing, draw, paint, dance, and act. She is in activities that center around those interests.

If a kid has no natural musical talent or interest in playing an instrument, it’s pointless to force it.

You seem to want to create a robot, not a person.

OP here. So many people are bringing up the robot analogy. No, I have no desire for my kid to emulate a robot. But we value physical activity in our household -- and hence, the sports requirement. I would've been just as fine if DC decided to do dance or rock climbing or cycling instead of team sports, but they have no interest in any of those activities, which is why I forced them to join a sport at their school.

We are forcing DC to do something artistic and something physical -- the fact that it ended up being a team sport and an instrument just ended up being their choice (a middle ground).

Unless you are literally compelling somebody to do something with physical force, you're not "forcing" them to do anything so you can stop using that term. Taking away privileges if you kids don't practice their instrument isn't forcing them, it's just enforcing household expectations. They could just live without the privileges if that's what they wanted to do, right?

I think that by my standards what you're doing is well within the realm of reasonable. When I read your OP I thought it wasn't, but if you're just saying "hey, ya gotta do something creative, what will it be?" and they pick? I don't think of that as your typical UMC high-intensity pushing. I think you're not being honest about the idea that it has nothing to do with college, and you're incredibly judgmental, and you don't seem to have ever had experience with a child who has actual mental health issues so you wouldn't know what it can mean to avoid pushing for the sake of a kid's mental health. But what you're doing isn't really the kind of pushing a lot of people take issue with.

Do you have just the one kid? I have two (which is not many, I know) and I have to take really different approaches with them. One will push back hard to being pushed, either with defiance or with internal shame. It's bad, and I cannot push her at all. My job as her parent is to be the one person in her world who doesn't tell her what to do (aside from brushing teeth and getting someplace on time), because she internalizes all other pressures around her so much.

DC2 is really relaxed and responds well to pushing. I actually was very hesitant to push him with because of my experiences with DC1, but I have learned that he can take it and he just needs more external motivation. Plus he asks to be pushed. The pushing comes in the form of setting reminders for him to work out and things like that. It's pretty mild. I was also pretty demanding as his homeschool teacher. I never could have done that with DC1.

Might be “household rules” but I’d prefer not to run my house like the military or a prison. I prefer to let my kids flourish and be self motivated. And all of mine are just in different ways and at what’s level appropriate for them.

My first is my “challenging kiddo”. If they were 2nd I’d really think I was doing something wrong as the 2nd is type a self motivated go getter with no learning/adhd/anxiety/etc. doesn’t make my first born any less valuable to society or less smart. They are just smart in different ways

PP here and I agree, but I think it's just a matter of my comfort level. I literally never punish my kids, if I want them to do something I stand there and ask calmly until they do it. I never give consequences for not doing homework and things like that. But I think that giving a consequence for not doing something when asked is totally within the realm of reasonable parenting.

I hear you on DC1 being the challenging child. Both my kids have ADHD but my first has that plus a host of other difficulties and it is so nice to know that it's probably not all a reflection of me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We pushed our kids and they all turned out fine and successful.

I didn't push my kids and they all turned out fine and successful.

PP you were responding to - 1 Phd in engineering and 2 medical doctors. How successful were yours?

Dp So you are only successful if you are a doctor or engineer. How about being successful by being decent, nice human beings?

They are decent and good human beings. Thanks for your concern.

[Anonymous]

This is DCUM. Admitting to pushing your kid, prepping for the AAP tests, acknowledging your privilege, or making less than $500k is forbidden.
Only the truly wealthy let their kids slack and wander. Whether they rise to true Tiger Mom status or employ more subtle tactics, it’s one of the main tenets of the UMC playbook to push your kids and hoard opportunities for them at the expense of others.
Pushing your kids is as American as gun ownership and racism - admitting it, not so much. We have to pretend our kids are successful due to their purely self-motivated hard work. Manifest Destiny!

[Anonymous]

Your observations are literally the opposite of every post here and the attitudes of 99% of my student's parents.

Parents in this area push their kids hard! Kids are way over-scheduled with little to no downtime.

I've had students tell me that they don't get to bed until 1 or 2 am because they don't get home from sports practice until 8 or 9 pm and then have to shower, eat, and start their work.

One student I had this past year, I honestly don't know how she functioned most days. She was up at 4:30 to be at the pool by 5. She did intense swim workouts and then cooled down with a light workout! She was at school from 9-4, did an afterschool activity that kept her after school for a few hours once a week, otherwise, she was back at the pool for another light swim and intense cardio or strength training for 2-3 hours. She said she normally got home between 8-9:30, ate some food and did her homework until after midnight some days. Just nuts!

Also, to be fair, it's not just athletes with crazy schedules. I tutor as well as teach and I had a student who had a mental breakdown this past year. His mom had him in music lessons, tutoring, extra language classes, SAT prep classes, and a sport. This kid was go-go-go from 7 am to 10 pm and would then have to start homework for the day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We pushed our kids and they all turned out fine and successful.

I didn't push my kids and they all turned out fine and successful.

PP you were responding to - 1 Phd in engineering and 2 medical doctors. How successful were yours?

In my family — one kid didn’t get pushed, two kids did. (Long story as to why but that’s how it is.)

Nonpushed kid: successful engineer
Pushed kids: successful engineer, successful editor

Oh and we’re all very happy and like each other and our parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We pushed our kids and they all turned out fine and successful.

I didn't push my kids and they all turned out fine and successful.

PP you were responding to - 1 Phd in engineering and 2 medical doctors. How successful were yours?

In my family — one kid didn’t get pushed, two kids did. (Long story as to why but that’s how it is.)

Nonpushed kid: successful engineer
Pushed kids: successful engineer, successful editor

Oh and we’re all very happy and like each other and our parents.

I really hate this kind of snotty comments. Like yours is the only one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We pushed our kids and they all turned out fine and successful.

I didn't push my kids and they all turned out fine and successful.

PP you were responding to - 1 Phd in engineering and 2 medical doctors. How successful were yours?

I'm not the PP, but to me successful is that they have a job/career where they can support themselves and they are happy and contributing to society. One does not need to be a Medical MD to do this (or have a PHD in a stem field).

I didn't have kids to live vicariously and push them to do stuff so I can brag about them. I'm happy to have smart well adjusted kids who contribute to the world, who are nice to everyone, who other people want to be around, etc.. I just hope that they love their career and life choices