Lowell High School admissions will return to merit-based system after S.F. school board vote

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It will be a wonderful year next year - incompetent racist fairfax school board members will be thrown out on their asses and the SCOTUS will rule and announce to end affirmative action case soon after that

Right - the Supreme Court do not need Robert's vote to end AA with Harvard case.

You got that right.

Don't think they will try to tell a private University who they should admit. It's perfectly reasonable that they value diversity. I know I do.

You are misinformed and should brush up on Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, which conditions federal assistance to private universities on their non-discrimination. Harvard gets lots of federal research grants.

There's really no doubt on that point; the issue is what constitutes discrimination on the basis of "race, color, or national origin."

The current Supreme Court isn't going to put up with Ibram Kendi-style "the only remedy to past discrimination is future discrimination" justifications for discrimination against Asian and White students.

Trying to label diversity as discrimination is like calling up down or left right . Your purposefully misleading people with this juvenile sophistry.

Asians are discriminated in the college admissions process.

I don't know about that but since we do know that the county is roughly 15% Asian and that Asians make up over 50% of TJ there is no discrimination going on there.

US District Court Judge ruled otherwise.

And the SCOTUS will affirm district court ruling and reverse 4th Circuit ruling next term! Roberts will be a non-factor again!

If they were going to do this, then why didn't they stop the Class of 2026 process from going forward when they had the chance to?

4th Circuit has not weighed in on this and will not until at least September. The Class of 2027 process will look the same as the 2025 and 2026.

If they were going to do this, then why didn't they stop the Class of 2026 process from going forward when they had the chance to? Read the post again. It says Roberts will be a non-factor as in Roberts who decided to let the injunctive relief stand for now will be of no consequence even if he votes in favor of Harvard.

4th Circuit has not weighed in on this and will not until at least September. Read the post again. It says "reverse 4th circuit ruling NEXT TERM meaning of course 4th circuit will reverse the District Court's ruling and SCOTUS will reverse 4th circuit next term once they grant cert.

So they are going to dictate admission criteria to a private college? Why stop there? Why not tell business how they should hire too! As much as I have little faith in this court, even they are unlikely to go there.

It was Congress that decided that private schools accepting federal money are subject to anti-discrimination laws. That’s already been determined; it’s just up to the Supreme Court to determine what constitutes discrimination.

In TJ’s case it doesn’t matter if there are two or three years where the kids are admitted pursuant to the new process. The opponents are playing long ball and will do everything they can to get the case before the current Supreme Court.

The TJ admission changes seem kind of minor and pretty reasonable for a publicly funded school that uses a race-blind process. Harvard and many private Universities engage in racial balancing in an effort to engineer diversity. Even if the crazies on the current SCOTUS case continue to toss precedent to reverse 100 years of social progress, how would this case impact TJ?

I mean sure if they decide in favor of Harvard maybe FCPS could engage in racial balancing too, but I find that outcome unlikley.

Changes are not minor and Federal Court has ruled FCPS discriminated against Asian students.

I'm skeptical that a race-blind selection process where Asian students received the lion's share of acceptance discriminates against them. The issue is using geographic norms in ranking which is considered a best practice in G&T education circles to account SES differences.

DP, but the issue will be whether a facially race-neutral policy adopted with a discriminatory intent is a violation. If they’d just switched over to allocating seats by middle school without creating the record that their intent was to reduce the percentage of Asian kids it would be a non-issue. In this case, the decision to switch over to middle school quotas was because they thought it would pump up the % of Black and Hispanic kids and reduce the % of Asian kids.

If by discriminate you mean reduce the impact that buying advance copies of the entrance exam had on selection, sure.

Source?

There are dozens of threads covering this here. Many claimed to have seen the questions prior to the test. The speculation here was they prep centers had developed question banks by interviewing those who had taken the exam in prior years.

Did you prep Hutchinson? You sound like her.

Who's Hutchinson? She sounds cool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It will be a wonderful year next year - incompetent racist fairfax school board members will be thrown out on their asses and the SCOTUS will rule and announce to end affirmative action case soon after that

Right - the Supreme Court do not need Robert's vote to end AA with Harvard case.

You got that right.

Don't think they will try to tell a private University who they should admit. It's perfectly reasonable that they value diversity. I know I do.

You are misinformed and should brush up on Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, which conditions federal assistance to private universities on their non-discrimination. Harvard gets lots of federal research grants.

There's really no doubt on that point; the issue is what constitutes discrimination on the basis of "race, color, or national origin."

The current Supreme Court isn't going to put up with Ibram Kendi-style "the only remedy to past discrimination is future discrimination" justifications for discrimination against Asian and White students.

Trying to label diversity as discrimination is like calling up down or left right . Your purposefully misleading people with this juvenile sophistry.

Asians are discriminated in the college admissions process.

I don't know about that but since we do know that the county is roughly 15% Asian and that Asians make up over 50% of TJ there is no discrimination going on there.

US District Court Judge ruled otherwise.

And the SCOTUS will affirm district court ruling and reverse 4th Circuit ruling next term! Roberts will be a non-factor again!

If they were going to do this, then why didn't they stop the Class of 2026 process from going forward when they had the chance to?

4th Circuit has not weighed in on this and will not until at least September. The Class of 2027 process will look the same as the 2025 and 2026.

If they were going to do this, then why didn't they stop the Class of 2026 process from going forward when they had the chance to? Read the post again. It says Roberts will be a non-factor as in Roberts who decided to let the injunctive relief stand for now will be of no consequence even if he votes in favor of Harvard.

4th Circuit has not weighed in on this and will not until at least September. Read the post again. It says "reverse 4th circuit ruling NEXT TERM meaning of course 4th circuit will reverse the District Court's ruling and SCOTUS will reverse 4th circuit next term once they grant cert.

So they are going to dictate admission criteria to a private college? Why stop there? Why not tell business how they should hire too! As much as I have little faith in this court, even they are unlikely to go there.

It was Congress that decided that private schools accepting federal money are subject to anti-discrimination laws. That’s already been determined; it’s just up to the Supreme Court to determine what constitutes discrimination.

In TJ’s case it doesn’t matter if there are two or three years where the kids are admitted pursuant to the new process. The opponents are playing long ball and will do everything they can to get the case before the current Supreme Court.

The TJ admission changes seem kind of minor and pretty reasonable for a publicly funded school that uses a race-blind process. Harvard and many private Universities engage in racial balancing in an effort to engineer diversity. Even if the crazies on the current SCOTUS case continue to toss precedent to reverse 100 years of social progress, how would this case impact TJ?

I mean sure if they decide in favor of Harvard maybe FCPS could engage in racial balancing too, but I find that outcome unlikley.

Changes are not minor and Federal Court has ruled FCPS discriminated against Asian students.

I'm skeptical that a race-blind selection process where Asian students received the lion's share of acceptance discriminates against them. The issue is using geographic norms in ranking which is considered a best practice in G&T education circles to account SES differences.

DP, but the issue will be whether a facially race-neutral policy adopted with a discriminatory intent is a violation. If they’d just switched over to allocating seats by middle school without creating the record that their intent was to reduce the percentage of Asian kids it would be a non-issue. In this case, the decision to switch over to middle school quotas was because they thought it would pump up the % of Black and Hispanic kids and reduce the % of Asian kids.

If by discriminate you mean reduce the impact that buying advance copies of the entrance exam had on selection, sure.

Source?

There are dozens of threads covering this here. Many claimed to have seen the questions prior to the test. The speculation here was they prep centers had developed question banks by interviewing those who had taken the exam in prior years.

That's all lies and distortions, but you don't care. A few kids who attended Curie claimed to have seen a few questions that were either on the Quant-Q test or similar to those on the test. It's hardly the same as kids "buying advance copies of the entrance exam."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It will be a wonderful year next year - incompetent racist fairfax school board members will be thrown out on their asses and the SCOTUS will rule and announce to end affirmative action case soon after that

Right - the Supreme Court do not need Robert's vote to end AA with Harvard case.

You got that right.

Don't think they will try to tell a private University who they should admit. It's perfectly reasonable that they value diversity. I know I do.

You are misinformed and should brush up on Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, which conditions federal assistance to private universities on their non-discrimination. Harvard gets lots of federal research grants.

There's really no doubt on that point; the issue is what constitutes discrimination on the basis of "race, color, or national origin."

The current Supreme Court isn't going to put up with Ibram Kendi-style "the only remedy to past discrimination is future discrimination" justifications for discrimination against Asian and White students.

Trying to label diversity as discrimination is like calling up down or left right . Your purposefully misleading people with this juvenile sophistry.

Asians are discriminated in the college admissions process.

I don't know about that but since we do know that the county is roughly 15% Asian and that Asians make up over 50% of TJ there is no discrimination going on there.

US District Court Judge ruled otherwise.

And the SCOTUS will affirm district court ruling and reverse 4th Circuit ruling next term! Roberts will be a non-factor again!

If they were going to do this, then why didn't they stop the Class of 2026 process from going forward when they had the chance to?

4th Circuit has not weighed in on this and will not until at least September. The Class of 2027 process will look the same as the 2025 and 2026.

If they were going to do this, then why didn't they stop the Class of 2026 process from going forward when they had the chance to? Read the post again. It says Roberts will be a non-factor as in Roberts who decided to let the injunctive relief stand for now will be of no consequence even if he votes in favor of Harvard.

4th Circuit has not weighed in on this and will not until at least September. Read the post again. It says "reverse 4th circuit ruling NEXT TERM meaning of course 4th circuit will reverse the District Court's ruling and SCOTUS will reverse 4th circuit next term once they grant cert.

So they are going to dictate admission criteria to a private college? Why stop there? Why not tell business how they should hire too! As much as I have little faith in this court, even they are unlikely to go there.

It was Congress that decided that private schools accepting federal money are subject to anti-discrimination laws. That’s already been determined; it’s just up to the Supreme Court to determine what constitutes discrimination.

In TJ’s case it doesn’t matter if there are two or three years where the kids are admitted pursuant to the new process. The opponents are playing long ball and will do everything they can to get the case before the current Supreme Court.

The TJ admission changes seem kind of minor and pretty reasonable for a publicly funded school that uses a race-blind process. Harvard and many private Universities engage in racial balancing in an effort to engineer diversity. Even if the crazies on the current SCOTUS case continue to toss precedent to reverse 100 years of social progress, how would this case impact TJ?

I mean sure if they decide in favor of Harvard maybe FCPS could engage in racial balancing too, but I find that outcome unlikley.

Changes are not minor and Federal Court has ruled FCPS discriminated against Asian students.

I'm skeptical that a race-blind selection process where Asian students received the lion's share of acceptance discriminates against them. The issue is using geographic norms in ranking which is considered a best practice in G&T education circles to account SES differences.

DP, but the issue will be whether a facially race-neutral policy adopted with a discriminatory intent is a violation. If they’d just switched over to allocating seats by middle school without creating the record that their intent was to reduce the percentage of Asian kids it would be a non-issue. In this case, the decision to switch over to middle school quotas was because they thought it would pump up the % of Black and Hispanic kids and reduce the % of Asian kids.

It wasn't just that, it was the whole application process including adding substantial weight to

Experience Factors

Economically Disadvantaged
English Language Learners
Special Education

They went way overboard where most of the application had nothing to do with STEM

Complete the Student Portrait Sheet
Students will demonstrate Portrait of a Graduate attributes and 21st Century Skills
Collaborator
Communicator
Creative and Critical Thinker
Ethical/Global Citizen
Goal-Directed & Resilient Individual
Innovator
Leader
Problem Solver
Complete the Problem-Solving Essay
Math and/or Science content
Topic will include multiple variables/steps
Applicant response will include solution along with explanation of process to solve problem.
Written in essay format
GPA (Core)
Experience Factors
Economically Disadvantaged
English Language Learners
Special Education

Seems very reasonable. You can not admit everyone who applies.

Of course you can't but these aren't factors to identify who the best STEM students are.

Here's the reality and a compromise. They should drop Science and Technology out of the name, remove the advanced STEM focus/courses and have it be a general application school.

Most students from the top 1/3 of high schools won't apply and it can serve folks from the bottom 2/3 of high schools to get them on a better path for overall success vs their base school.

But maybe the goal is not to admit the “best” STEM students (whatever that means). Maybe the goal is to stimulate interest in STEM education for students who have the interest and are capable of doing the work. It is a viable goal to stimulate STEM education in underserved communities, which may mean not necessarily going strictly by test results and expensive (or available in certain high SES schools) STEM ECs.

I’ve not read the TJ mission statement, so I don’t know, but I doubt it is to educate only the “best” students. AAP certainly doesn’t take only the “best” or it would be a much smaller program with only gifted students, which it is not. It’s merely an advanced program that any high average to above average kid could succeed in.

We should really look to the goals and mission of the school to see. I doubt it says take only the top scorers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It will be a wonderful year next year - incompetent racist fairfax school board members will be thrown out on their asses and the SCOTUS will rule and announce to end affirmative action case soon after that

Right - the Supreme Court do not need Robert's vote to end AA with Harvard case.

You got that right.

Don't think they will try to tell a private University who they should admit. It's perfectly reasonable that they value diversity. I know I do.

You are misinformed and should brush up on Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, which conditions federal assistance to private universities on their non-discrimination. Harvard gets lots of federal research grants.

There's really no doubt on that point; the issue is what constitutes discrimination on the basis of "race, color, or national origin."

The current Supreme Court isn't going to put up with Ibram Kendi-style "the only remedy to past discrimination is future discrimination" justifications for discrimination against Asian and White students.

Trying to label diversity as discrimination is like calling up down or left right . Your purposefully misleading people with this juvenile sophistry.

Asians are discriminated in the college admissions process.

I don't know about that but since we do know that the county is roughly 15% Asian and that Asians make up over 50% of TJ there is no discrimination going on there.

US District Court Judge ruled otherwise.

And the SCOTUS will affirm district court ruling and reverse 4th Circuit ruling next term! Roberts will be a non-factor again!

If they were going to do this, then why didn't they stop the Class of 2026 process from going forward when they had the chance to?

4th Circuit has not weighed in on this and will not until at least September. The Class of 2027 process will look the same as the 2025 and 2026.

If they were going to do this, then why didn't they stop the Class of 2026 process from going forward when they had the chance to? Read the post again. It says Roberts will be a non-factor as in Roberts who decided to let the injunctive relief stand for now will be of no consequence even if he votes in favor of Harvard.

4th Circuit has not weighed in on this and will not until at least September. Read the post again. It says "reverse 4th circuit ruling NEXT TERM meaning of course 4th circuit will reverse the District Court's ruling and SCOTUS will reverse 4th circuit next term once they grant cert.

So they are going to dictate admission criteria to a private college? Why stop there? Why not tell business how they should hire too! As much as I have little faith in this court, even they are unlikely to go there.

It was Congress that decided that private schools accepting federal money are subject to anti-discrimination laws. That’s already been determined; it’s just up to the Supreme Court to determine what constitutes discrimination.

In TJ’s case it doesn’t matter if there are two or three years where the kids are admitted pursuant to the new process. The opponents are playing long ball and will do everything they can to get the case before the current Supreme Court.

The TJ admission changes seem kind of minor and pretty reasonable for a publicly funded school that uses a race-blind process. Harvard and many private Universities engage in racial balancing in an effort to engineer diversity. Even if the crazies on the current SCOTUS case continue to toss precedent to reverse 100 years of social progress, how would this case impact TJ?

I mean sure if they decide in favor of Harvard maybe FCPS could engage in racial balancing too, but I find that outcome unlikley.

Changes are not minor and Federal Court has ruled FCPS discriminated against Asian students.

I'm skeptical that a race-blind selection process where Asian students received the lion's share of acceptance discriminates against them. The issue is using geographic norms in ranking which is considered a best practice in G&T education circles to account SES differences.

DP, but the issue will be whether a facially race-neutral policy adopted with a discriminatory intent is a violation. If they’d just switched over to allocating seats by middle school without creating the record that their intent was to reduce the percentage of Asian kids it would be a non-issue. In this case, the decision to switch over to middle school quotas was because they thought it would pump up the % of Black and Hispanic kids and reduce the % of Asian kids.

It wasn't just that, it was the whole application process including adding substantial weight to

Experience Factors

Economically Disadvantaged
English Language Learners
Special Education

They went way overboard where most of the application had nothing to do with STEM

Complete the Student Portrait Sheet
Students will demonstrate Portrait of a Graduate attributes and 21st Century Skills
Collaborator
Communicator
Creative and Critical Thinker
Ethical/Global Citizen
Goal-Directed & Resilient Individual
Innovator
Leader
Problem Solver
Complete the Problem-Solving Essay
Math and/or Science content
Topic will include multiple variables/steps
Applicant response will include solution along with explanation of process to solve problem.
Written in essay format
GPA (Core)
Experience Factors
Economically Disadvantaged
English Language Learners
Special Education

Seems very reasonable. You can not admit everyone who applies.

Of course you can't but these aren't factors to identify who the best STEM students are.

Here's the reality and a compromise. They should drop Science and Technology out of the name, remove the advanced STEM focus/courses and have it be a general application school.

Most students from the top 1/3 of high schools won't apply and it can serve folks from the bottom 2/3 of high schools to get them on a better path for overall success vs their base school.

But maybe the goal is not to admit the “best” STEM students (whatever that means). Maybe the goal is to stimulate interest in STEM education for students who have the interest and are capable of doing the work. It is a viable goal to stimulate STEM education in underserved communities, which may mean not necessarily going strictly by test results and expensive (or available in certain high SES schools) STEM ECs.

I’ve not read the TJ mission statement, so I don’t know, but I doubt it is to educate only the “best” students. AAP certainly doesn’t take only the “best” or it would be a much smaller program with only gifted students, which it is not. It’s merely an advanced program that any high average to above average kid could succeed in.

We should really look to the goals and mission of the school to see. I doubt it says take only the top scorers.

I hate that I had to do this for you

"Governor's Schools give students academic and visual and performing arts opportunities beyond those normally available in the students' home schools. Students are able to focus on a specific area of intellectual or artistic strength and interest and to study in a way that best suits the advanced learner's needs. Each program stresses non-traditional teaching and learning techniques. For example, small-group instruction, hands-on-experiences, research, field studies, or realistic or artistic productions are major elements in the instructional design at all schools. Students become scientists, writers, artists, and performers as they work with professional mentors and instructors. Every effort is made to tailor learning to needs of the community of learners that compose the program.

The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. The foundation of the Virginia Governor's School Program centers on best practices in the field of gifted education and the presentation of advanced content to able learners."

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/governors_school_programs/index.shtml

Please educate yourself before posting again

[Anonymous]

I guess the argument is that peer groups vary across pyramids. Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

What we’re seeing with the latest admissions statistics is that TJ os going to remain a very strong school, possibly the best in the county or perhaps only second-best behind Langley. FCPS is trading it’s pretty-eminence for greater geographical representation, and in doing so won’t have an especially hard time justifying it’s consistent with the goal of a Governor’s School. If the Youngkin administration wants to challenge what FCPS has done (assuming C4TJ fails in the courts), it will likely have to change the criteria or mission statement for Governor’s Schools (which it may very well end up doing).

[Anonymous]

^ pre-eminence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess the argument is that peer groups vary across pyramids. Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

What we’re seeing with the latest admissions statistics is that TJ os going to remain a very strong school, possibly the best in the county or perhaps only second-best behind Langley. FCPS is trading it’s pretty-eminence for greater geographical representation, and in doing so won’t have an especially hard time justifying it’s consistent with the goal of a Governor’s School. If the Youngkin administration wants to challenge what FCPS has done (assuming C4TJ fails in the courts), it will likely have to change the criteria or mission statement for Governor’s Schools (which it may very well end up doing).

It's possible but doubtful. I think some parents like to tell themselves these things to justify their prejudices and suspect the top kids at these schools would be the top kids at any school. Sure, there are more kids present as "top" at wealthy schools because of the opportunities wealth affords them like outside enrichment, but that's not the same as natural ability which tends to be distributed throughout the population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the argument is that peer groups vary across pyramids. Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

What we’re seeing with the latest admissions statistics is that TJ os going to remain a very strong school, possibly the best in the county or perhaps only second-best behind Langley. FCPS is trading it’s pretty-eminence for greater geographical representation, and in doing so won’t have an especially hard time justifying it’s consistent with the goal of a Governor’s School. If the Youngkin administration wants to challenge what FCPS has done (assuming C4TJ fails in the courts), it will likely have to change the criteria or mission statement for Governor’s Schools (which it may very well end up doing).

It's possible but doubtful. I think some parents like to tell themselves these things to justify their prejudices and suspect the top kids at these schools would be the top kids at any school. Sure, there are more kids present as "top" at wealthy schools because of the opportunities wealth affords them like outside enrichment, but that's not the same as natural ability which tends to be distributed throughout the population.

Humm it's not a normal distribution. Iqs are higher among higher income folks.

The broader point is interesting should the top kids be taken or should it be kids who aren't served in their base school pier environments.

Companies and even colleges take the top kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the argument is that peer groups vary across pyramids. Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

What we’re seeing with the latest admissions statistics is that TJ os going to remain a very strong school, possibly the best in the county or perhaps only second-best behind Langley. FCPS is trading it’s pretty-eminence for greater geographical representation, and in doing so won’t have an especially hard time justifying it’s consistent with the goal of a Governor’s School. If the Youngkin administration wants to challenge what FCPS has done (assuming C4TJ fails in the courts), it will likely have to change the criteria or mission statement for Governor’s Schools (which it may very well end up doing).

It's possible but doubtful. I think some parents like to tell themselves these things to justify their prejudices and suspect the top kids at these schools would be the top kids at any school. Sure, there are more kids present as "top" at wealthy schools because of the opportunities wealth affords them like outside enrichment, but that's not the same as natural ability which tends to be distributed throughout the population.

Humm it's not a normal distribution. Iqs are higher among higher income folks.

The broader point is interesting should the top kids be taken or should it be kids who aren't served in their base school pier environments.

Companies and even colleges take the top kids.

Studies on this subject suggest otherwise but please feel free to post supporting documentation for your fringe theories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the argument is that peer groups vary across pyramids. Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

What we’re seeing with the latest admissions statistics is that TJ os going to remain a very strong school, possibly the best in the county or perhaps only second-best behind Langley. FCPS is trading it’s pretty-eminence for greater geographical representation, and in doing so won’t have an especially hard time justifying it’s consistent with the goal of a Governor’s School. If the Youngkin administration wants to challenge what FCPS has done (assuming C4TJ fails in the courts), it will likely have to change the criteria or mission statement for Governor’s Schools (which it may very well end up doing).

It's possible but doubtful. I think some parents like to tell themselves these things to justify their prejudices and suspect the top kids at these schools would be the top kids at any school. Sure, there are more kids present as "top" at wealthy schools because of the opportunities wealth affords them like outside enrichment, but that's not the same as natural ability which tends to be distributed throughout the population.

Humm it's not a normal distribution. Iqs are higher among higher income folks.

The broader point is interesting should the top kids be taken or should it be kids who aren't served in their base school pier environments.

Companies and even colleges take the top kids.

Studies on this subject suggest otherwise but please feel free to post supporting documentation for your fringe theories.

It is kind of funny that they believe these small differences in middle class status confers significant increase in IQ, but I guess it helps confirm there underlying prejudices too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the argument is that peer groups vary across pyramids. Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

What we’re seeing with the latest admissions statistics is that TJ os going to remain a very strong school, possibly the best in the county or perhaps only second-best behind Langley. FCPS is trading it’s pretty-eminence for greater geographical representation, and in doing so won’t have an especially hard time justifying it’s consistent with the goal of a Governor’s School. If the Youngkin administration wants to challenge what FCPS has done (assuming C4TJ fails in the courts), it will likely have to change the criteria or mission statement for Governor’s Schools (which it may very well end up doing).

It's possible but doubtful. I think some parents like to tell themselves these things to justify their prejudices and suspect the top kids at these schools would be the top kids at any school. Sure, there are more kids present as "top" at wealthy schools because of the opportunities wealth affords them like outside enrichment, but that's not the same as natural ability which tends to be distributed throughout the population.

The South Asians who immigrated here and populate NOVA are likely in the top quarter of the distribution curve in their countries of origin. That’s how many of them earned the right to immigrate here. Natural ability is more concentrated in that population.

Also, privilege matters only to a certain point. You need a certain amount of privilege to allow the student to focus on school and afford a few outside opportunities. But you reach a point of diminishing returns, and that’s where desire, talent and/or grit take over.

It’s not like Asians in the area are inherently more privileged than white kids in the area yet Asians dominated TJ admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the argument is that peer groups vary across pyramids. Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

What we’re seeing with the latest admissions statistics is that TJ os going to remain a very strong school, possibly the best in the county or perhaps only second-best behind Langley. FCPS is trading it’s pretty-eminence for greater geographical representation, and in doing so won’t have an especially hard time justifying it’s consistent with the goal of a Governor’s School. If the Youngkin administration wants to challenge what FCPS has done (assuming C4TJ fails in the courts), it will likely have to change the criteria or mission statement for Governor’s Schools (which it may very well end up doing).

It's possible but doubtful. I think some parents like to tell themselves these things to justify their prejudices and suspect the top kids at these schools would be the top kids at any school. Sure, there are more kids present as "top" at wealthy schools because of the opportunities wealth affords them like outside enrichment, but that's not the same as natural ability which tends to be distributed throughout the population.

The South Asians who immigrated here and populate NOVA are likely in the top quarter of the distribution curve in their countries of origin. That’s how many of them earned the right to immigrate here. Natural ability is more concentrated in that population.

Also, privilege matters only to a certain point. You need a certain amount of privilege to allow the student to focus on school and afford a few outside opportunities. But you reach a point of diminishing returns, and that’s where desire, talent and/or grit take over.

It’s not like Asians in the area are inherently more privileged than white kids in the area yet Asians dominated TJ admissions.

White kids have been raised by striver parents or grandparents. Now they have been spoiled and don't think they need to work hard because they live in a McMansion. Immigrant kids are still working up the chain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the argument is that peer groups vary across pyramids. Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

What we’re seeing with the latest admissions statistics is that TJ os going to remain a very strong school, possibly the best in the county or perhaps only second-best behind Langley. FCPS is trading it’s pretty-eminence for greater geographical representation, and in doing so won’t have an especially hard time justifying it’s consistent with the goal of a Governor’s School. If the Youngkin administration wants to challenge what FCPS has done (assuming C4TJ fails in the courts), it will likely have to change the criteria or mission statement for Governor’s Schools (which it may very well end up doing).

It's possible but doubtful. I think some parents like to tell themselves these things to justify their prejudices and suspect the top kids at these schools would be the top kids at any school. Sure, there are more kids present as "top" at wealthy schools because of the opportunities wealth affords them like outside enrichment, but that's not the same as natural ability which tends to be distributed throughout the population.

Humm it's not a normal distribution. Iqs are higher among higher income folks.

The broader point is interesting should the top kids be taken or should it be kids who aren't served in their base school pier environments.

Companies and even colleges take the top kids.

Studies on this subject suggest otherwise but please feel free to post supporting documentation for your fringe theories.

It is kind of funny that they believe these small differences in middle class status confers significant increase in IQ, but I guess it helps confirm there underlying prejudices too.

People with higher incomes are generally smarter is that really up for debate???? They also work harder as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the argument is that peer groups vary across pyramids. Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

What we’re seeing with the latest admissions statistics is that TJ os going to remain a very strong school, possibly the best in the county or perhaps only second-best behind Langley. FCPS is trading it’s pretty-eminence for greater geographical representation, and in doing so won’t have an especially hard time justifying it’s consistent with the goal of a Governor’s School. If the Youngkin administration wants to challenge what FCPS has done (assuming C4TJ fails in the courts), it will likely have to change the criteria or mission statement for Governor’s Schools (which it may very well end up doing).

It's possible but doubtful. I think some parents like to tell themselves these things to justify their prejudices and suspect the top kids at these schools would be the top kids at any school. Sure, there are more kids present as "top" at wealthy schools because of the opportunities wealth affords them like outside enrichment, but that's not the same as natural ability which tends to be distributed throughout the population.

Humm it's not a normal distribution. Iqs are higher among higher income folks.

The broader point is interesting should the top kids be taken or should it be kids who aren't served in their base school pier environments.

Companies and even colleges take the top kids.

Studies on this subject suggest otherwise but please feel free to post supporting documentation for your fringe theories.

It is kind of funny that they believe these small differences in middle class status confers significant increase in IQ, but I guess it helps confirm there underlying prejudices too.

Yeah. I mean, everyone knows that the bus driver or janitor have an IQ just as high as medical doctors, lawyers, and computer programmers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the argument is that peer groups vary across pyramids. Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

What we’re seeing with the latest admissions statistics is that TJ os going to remain a very strong school, possibly the best in the county or perhaps only second-best behind Langley. FCPS is trading it’s pretty-eminence for greater geographical representation, and in doing so won’t have an especially hard time justifying it’s consistent with the goal of a Governor’s School. If the Youngkin administration wants to challenge what FCPS has done (assuming C4TJ fails in the courts), it will likely have to change the criteria or mission statement for Governor’s Schools (which it may very well end up doing).

It's possible but doubtful. I think some parents like to tell themselves these things to justify their prejudices and suspect the top kids at these schools would be the top kids at any school. Sure, there are more kids present as "top" at wealthy schools because of the opportunities wealth affords them like outside enrichment, but that's not the same as natural ability which tends to be distributed throughout the population.

The South Asians who immigrated here and populate NOVA are likely in the top quarter of the distribution curve in their countries of origin. That’s how many of them earned the right to immigrate here. Natural ability is more concentrated in that population.

Also, privilege matters only to a certain point. You need a certain amount of privilege to allow the student to focus on school and afford a few outside opportunities. But you reach a point of diminishing returns, and that’s where desire, talent and/or grit take over.

It’s not like Asians in the area are inherently more privileged than white kids in the area yet Asians dominated TJ admissions.

White kids have been raised by striver parents or grandparents. Now they have been spoiled and don't think they need to work hard because they live in a McMansion. Immigrant kids are still working up the chain.

White parent here. I think this is somewhat true. My family has been here for 2 generations now and my DH and I have an amount of money unimaginable to my immigrant grandparents. I would imagine my grandparents worked much harder than my kids will At the risk of being prejudiced (and I truly have no ill intent), I would say there seems to be a cultural preference in Asian/South Asian communities in the US for STEM that does not necessarily exist with the white families I know. It could be that the recent Asian/South Asian immigrants work in STEM so they value that more as the route to a good life in the US. I know a lot of white kids that work very hard and are very accomplished, but many of them value and prefer other fields over STEM.