Lowell High School admissions will return to merit-based system after S.F. school board vote

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the argument is that peer groups vary across pyramids. Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

What we’re seeing with the latest admissions statistics is that TJ os going to remain a very strong school, possibly the best in the county or perhaps only second-best behind Langley. FCPS is trading it’s pretty-eminence for greater geographical representation, and in doing so won’t have an especially hard time justifying it’s consistent with the goal of a Governor’s School. If the Youngkin administration wants to challenge what FCPS has done (assuming C4TJ fails in the courts), it will likely have to change the criteria or mission statement for Governor’s Schools (which it may very well end up doing).

It's possible but doubtful. I think some parents like to tell themselves these things to justify their prejudices and suspect the top kids at these schools would be the top kids at any school. Sure, there are more kids present as "top" at wealthy schools because of the opportunities wealth affords them like outside enrichment, but that's not the same as natural ability which tends to be distributed throughout the population.

Humm it's not a normal distribution. Iqs are higher among higher income folks.

The broader point is interesting should the top kids be taken or should it be kids who aren't served in their base school pier environments.

Companies and even colleges take the top kids.

Studies on this subject suggest otherwise but please feel free to post supporting documentation for your fringe theories.

It is kind of funny that they believe these small differences in middle class status confers significant increase in IQ, but I guess it helps confirm there underlying prejudices too.

People with higher incomes are generally smarter is that really up for debate???? They also work harder as well.

I know just look at Donald Trump!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the argument is that peer groups vary across pyramids. Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

What we’re seeing with the latest admissions statistics is that TJ os going to remain a very strong school, possibly the best in the county or perhaps only second-best behind Langley. FCPS is trading it’s pretty-eminence for greater geographical representation, and in doing so won’t have an especially hard time justifying it’s consistent with the goal of a Governor’s School. If the Youngkin administration wants to challenge what FCPS has done (assuming C4TJ fails in the courts), it will likely have to change the criteria or mission statement for Governor’s Schools (which it may very well end up doing).

It's possible but doubtful. I think some parents like to tell themselves these things to justify their prejudices and suspect the top kids at these schools would be the top kids at any school. Sure, there are more kids present as "top" at wealthy schools because of the opportunities wealth affords them like outside enrichment, but that's not the same as natural ability which tends to be distributed throughout the population.

Humm it's not a normal distribution. Iqs are higher among higher income folks.

The broader point is interesting should the top kids be taken or should it be kids who aren't served in their base school pier environments.

Companies and even colleges take the top kids.

Studies on this subject suggest otherwise but please feel free to post supporting documentation for your fringe theories.

It is kind of funny that they believe these small differences in middle class status confers significant increase in IQ, but I guess it helps confirm there underlying prejudices too.

I know these clowns think there's a substantial difference between the guy who makes 160k and 120k. I got news for them. They're both poors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the argument is that peer groups vary across pyramids. Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

What we’re seeing with the latest admissions statistics is that TJ os going to remain a very strong school, possibly the best in the county or perhaps only second-best behind Langley. FCPS is trading it’s pretty-eminence for greater geographical representation, and in doing so won’t have an especially hard time justifying it’s consistent with the goal of a Governor’s School. If the Youngkin administration wants to challenge what FCPS has done (assuming C4TJ fails in the courts), it will likely have to change the criteria or mission statement for Governor’s Schools (which it may very well end up doing).

It's possible but doubtful. I think some parents like to tell themselves these things to justify their prejudices and suspect the top kids at these schools would be the top kids at any school. Sure, there are more kids present as "top" at wealthy schools because of the opportunities wealth affords them like outside enrichment, but that's not the same as natural ability which tends to be distributed throughout the population.

Humm it's not a normal distribution. Iqs are higher among higher income folks.

The broader point is interesting should the top kids be taken or should it be kids who aren't served in their base school pier environments.

Companies and even colleges take the top kids.

Studies on this subject suggest otherwise but please feel free to post supporting documentation for your fringe theories.

It is kind of funny that they believe these small differences in middle class status confers significant increase in IQ, but I guess it helps confirm there underlying prejudices too.

Exactly it's kind of cray cray but at least you know where they're coming from...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

How on earth would any regular smart kid not be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon? Every single FCPS high school either has a full IB program or a full load of AP classes. The overwhelming majority of kids can be challenged at any base school in FCPS. I know a few full IB diploma graduates of Annandale high school. They did not lack for a peer group or sufficient challenge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the argument is that peer groups vary across pyramids. Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

What we’re seeing with the latest admissions statistics is that TJ os going to remain a very strong school, possibly the best in the county or perhaps only second-best behind Langley. FCPS is trading it’s pretty-eminence for greater geographical representation, and in doing so won’t have an especially hard time justifying it’s consistent with the goal of a Governor’s School. If the Youngkin administration wants to challenge what FCPS has done (assuming C4TJ fails in the courts), it will likely have to change the criteria or mission statement for Governor’s Schools (which it may very well end up doing).

It's possible but doubtful. I think some parents like to tell themselves these things to justify their prejudices and suspect the top kids at these schools would be the top kids at any school. Sure, there are more kids present as "top" at wealthy schools because of the opportunities wealth affords them like outside enrichment, but that's not the same as natural ability which tends to be distributed throughout the population.

Humm it's not a normal distribution. Iqs are higher among higher income folks.

The broader point is interesting should the top kids be taken or should it be kids who aren't served in their base school pier environments.

Companies and even colleges take the top kids.

Studies on this subject suggest otherwise but please feel free to post supporting documentation for your fringe theories.

It is kind of funny that they believe these small differences in middle class status confers significant increase in IQ, but I guess it helps confirm there underlying prejudices too.

People with higher incomes are generally smarter is that really up for debate???? They also work harder as well.

I know just look at Donald Trump!

Donald Trump is definitely richer and smarter than you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

How on earth would any regular smart kid not be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon? Every single FCPS high school either has a full IB program or a full load of AP classes. The overwhelming majority of kids can be challenged at any base school in FCPS. I know a few full IB diploma graduates of Annandale high school. They did not lack for a peer group or sufficient challenge.

Completely agree. There may be some differences between these schools but it's more like one has 4 sections of AP English and the other has 3. It's not that there aren't plenty of really smart kids. I think it's just a lie that some tell themselves to justify their prejudice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

How on earth would any regular smart kid not be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon? Every single FCPS high school either has a full IB program or a full load of AP classes. The overwhelming majority of kids can be challenged at any base school in FCPS. I know a few full IB diploma graduates of Annandale high school. They did not lack for a peer group or sufficient challenge.

Completely agree. There may be some differences between these schools but it's more like one has 4 sections of AP English and the other has 3. It's not that there aren't plenty of really smart kids. I think it's just a lie that some tell themselves to justify their prejudice.

Ok, so then all of the schools are good and no need for TJ. Got it.

Or is it, those poors will get enough challenge for them, but my special snowflake needs more?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

How on earth would any regular smart kid not be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon? Every single FCPS high school either has a full IB program or a full load of AP classes. The overwhelming majority of kids can be challenged at any base school in FCPS. I know a few full IB diploma graduates of Annandale high school. They did not lack for a peer group or sufficient challenge.

Completely agree. There may be some differences between these schools but it's more like one has 4 sections of AP English and the other has 3. It's not that there aren't plenty of really smart kids. I think it's just a lie that some tell themselves to justify their prejudice.

Very true but sadly make a lot of false assumptions without any direct knowledge of these matters. The reality is it's mostly just hair-splitting and there's very little difference in terms of real opportunities between these schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

How on earth would any regular smart kid not be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon? Every single FCPS high school either has a full IB program or a full load of AP classes. The overwhelming majority of kids can be challenged at any base school in FCPS. I know a few full IB diploma graduates of Annandale high school. They did not lack for a peer group or sufficient challenge.

Completely agree. There may be some differences between these schools but it's more like one has 4 sections of AP English and the other has 3. It's not that there aren't plenty of really smart kids. I think it's just a lie that some tell themselves to justify their prejudice.

Ok, so then all of the schools are good and no need for TJ. Got it.

Or is it, those poors will get enough challenge for them, but my special snowflake needs more?

Only 30 or so kids per year need TJ. Others may benefit from a school like TJ, but it’s absurd to say they need it. Even among the straight A students, very few find AP courses too unchallenging.

[Anonymous]

Agree and those 30 should just skip grades and go to college early.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

How on earth would any regular smart kid not be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon? Every single FCPS high school either has a full IB program or a full load of AP classes. The overwhelming majority of kids can be challenged at any base school in FCPS. I know a few full IB diploma graduates of Annandale high school. They did not lack for a peer group or sufficient challenge.

How many National Merit Semifinalists from Annandale, Lewis, and Mount Vernon in recent years? Next to none, which underscores that the most talented kids from those pyramids may not be reaching their potential. Maybe they need TJ more than other kids who’d do just as well at Chantilly or Langley, which clearly have a very strong peer group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

How on earth would any regular smart kid not be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon? Every single FCPS high school either has a full IB program or a full load of AP classes. The overwhelming majority of kids can be challenged at any base school in FCPS. I know a few full IB diploma graduates of Annandale high school. They did not lack for a peer group or sufficient challenge.

How many National Merit Semifinalists from Annandale, Lewis, and Mount Vernon in recent years? Next to none, which underscores that the most talented kids from those pyramids may not be reaching their potential. Maybe they need TJ more than other kids who’d do just as well at Chantilly or Langley, which clearly have a very strong peer group.

The difference in those schools isn't significant; however, parental investment in outside tutoring and prep is, and for better or worse that makes a difference. The county doesn't provide anything like a decent PSAT prep class. When my kids are at that age, I will shell out for it. Further, I went to FCPS and was a NMSF. I even went to one of the least respected HS at the time. I often lacked great advice, but somehow I knew to use my summer earnings to pay for the PSAT prep class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

How on earth would any regular smart kid not be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon? Every single FCPS high school either has a full IB program or a full load of AP classes. The overwhelming majority of kids can be challenged at any base school in FCPS. I know a few full IB diploma graduates of Annandale high school. They did not lack for a peer group or sufficient challenge.

How many National Merit Semifinalists from Annandale, Lewis, and Mount Vernon in recent years? Next to none, which underscores that the most talented kids from those pyramids may not be reaching their potential. Maybe they need TJ more than other kids who’d do just as well at Chantilly or Langley, which clearly have a very strong peer group.

The difference in those schools isn't significant; however, parental investment in outside tutoring and prep is, and for better or worse that makes a difference. The county doesn't provide anything like a decent PSAT prep class. When my kids are at that age, I will shell out for it. Further, I went to FCPS and was a NMSF. I even went to one of the least respected HS at the time. I often lacked great advice, but somehow I knew to use my summer earnings to pay for the PSAT prep class.

LOL, no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids can find a large cohort of strong peers at the top schools like Langley, McLean, Chantilly and Oakton, but not at Lewis or Mount Vernon, so the types of kids who need a Governor’s School in each pyramid can vary. If you look at it that way, the fact that the top kids coming from the low-performing pyramids in general might be just average at a top school doesn’t matter; what matters is that they wouldn’t be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon.

How on earth would any regular smart kid not be challenged at Lewis or Mount Vernon? Every single FCPS high school either has a full IB program or a full load of AP classes. The overwhelming majority of kids can be challenged at any base school in FCPS. I know a few full IB diploma graduates of Annandale high school. They did not lack for a peer group or sufficient challenge.

How many National Merit Semifinalists from Annandale, Lewis, and Mount Vernon in recent years? Next to none, which underscores that the most talented kids from those pyramids may not be reaching their potential. Maybe they need TJ more than other kids who’d do just as well at Chantilly or Langley, which clearly have a very strong peer group.

The difference in those schools isn't significant; however, parental investment in outside tutoring and prep is, and for better or worse that makes a difference. The county doesn't provide anything like a decent PSAT prep class. When my kids are at that age, I will shell out for it. Further, I went to FCPS and was a NMSF. I even went to one of the least respected HS at the time. I often lacked great advice, but somehow I knew to use my summer earnings to pay for the PSAT prep class.

Many will try to deny this since they feel it's in their self-interest even though they know deep down it's true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When TJ is shut down, Langley and Mclean High will become the strongest high schools in FCPS. Don't expect all public schools generate the same outcome for everyone. It's impossible. As long students and parents are different, the outcome will be different.

This is the problem with the myopic focus on TJ. This will simply strengthen schools in wealthier neighborhoods and may end up exacerbating inequity as whole even while equity may improve for TJ. That is, Langley and Mclean will end up with stronger student populations whereas high schools in less affluent areas will send more of their best and brightest to TJ, thereby arguably weakening those schools.